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quote:
Originally posted by Aconcernedcitizen:
quote:
Originally posted by bkbalch:
What timing .. as I was posting the last one .. I was watching the Florence City Council Meeting ... Mr. Crowder .. A concerned Citizen of Florence just announced to the city that he had in his possession, in the bed of his truck, a sign beloning to the Cloverdale Moto-x that HE (Mr. Crowder) took off of Private property because he felt it was illegally placed!

We dont need a camera.. he just announced it to the whole city! Lets go get him next! What a criminal!


If Cloverdale Moto-X files a complaint with the PD or LASO (depending on where the sign was placed) then the law enforcement agency assigned to that area has no choice but to follow up.


Fat chance that these folks would file a complaint about their illegally-placed sign being removed. In any such complaint, they would have to tell the law enforcement agency where the sign was, which means, in this case, that they would have to acknowledge that they placed it in a location where placement of such a sign is illegal (and in a location where any number of witnesses saw it and could confirm its location). In other words, their complaint would be an acknowledgment of their own violation of the law. So don't hold your breath waiting for that kind of complaint to be filed!
quote:
Originally posted by jetboy:
It is theft of personal property...doesn't matter where it is. The charge for stealing that sign is the same as for stealing a car.

source


It's not the same. The theft of the sign would be Theft of Property 3rd (TOP) and the Theft of an automoblie is TOP1st. Big difference..do a little more research on the statutes before citing your source.
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It's not the same. The theft of the sign would be Theft of Property 3rd (TOP) and the Theft of an automoblie is TOP1st. Big difference..do a little more research on the statutes before citing your source.


You dont even know the traffic laws...now you think you know more than the Franklin county district attorney. Now thats funny right there... Big Grin
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"It would be the same as stealing a car left on the roadside in order to sale," Rushing said.



Well there it is, straight from the DAs mouth. The charge is the SAME...the level may be different. Next time THINK before you speak. Roll Eyes



quote:
RED BAY - The municipal elections are just around the corner, and candidates are out knocking on doors, and hanging signs in order to get their names out to the voters.

Candidates in Red Bay are reporting numerous sign thefts even though stealing a sign is theft of property.

Franklin County District Attorney Joey Rushing said most people don't realize that political signs are considered personal property even though they are placed in public places and on others' property.

"It would be the same as stealing a car left on the roadside in order to sale," Rushing said.

Defacing or damaging political signs is also against the law.

"There is an ongoing investigation in another county where one candidate was caught vandalizing another's signs," Rushing said. "We fully expect there to be criminal charges brought forth if the allegations can be proven."

Rushing said stealing political signs is considered third-degree theft of property, which is a misdemeanor charge as long as the cost of theft is less than $500.

Vandalizing signs is considered third-degree criminal mischief, which is a Class B misdemeanor.

"If you were taking or vandalizing larger, more expensive signs, then it would be fairly easy to work their way up to the felony charge level on these charges," Rushing said.

Rushing said property owners should contact the candidate if a sign has been placed on their property without their permission
quote:
Originally posted by jetboy:
quote:
"It would be the same as stealing a car left on the roadside in order to sale," Rushing said.



Well there it is, straight from the DAs mouth. The charge is the SAME...the level may be different. Next time THINK before you speak. Roll Eyes



quote:
RED BAY - The municipal elections are just around the corner, and candidates are out knocking on doors, and hanging signs in order to get their names out to the voters.

Candidates in Red Bay are reporting numerous sign thefts even though stealing a sign is theft of property.

Franklin County District Attorney Joey Rushing said most people don't realize that political signs are considered personal property even though they are placed in public places and on others' property.

"It would be the same as stealing a car left on the roadside in order to sale," Rushing said.

Defacing or damaging political signs is also against the law.

"There is an ongoing investigation in another county where one candidate was caught vandalizing another's signs," Rushing said. "We fully expect there to be criminal charges brought forth if the allegations can be proven."

Rushing said stealing political signs is considered third-degree theft of property, which is a misdemeanor charge as long as the cost of theft is less than $500.

Vandalizing signs is considered third-degree criminal mischief, which is a Class B misdemeanor.

"If you were taking or vandalizing larger, more expensive signs, then it would be fairly easy to work their way up to the felony charge level on these charges," Rushing said.

Rushing said property owners should contact the candidate if a sign has been placed on their property without their permission


They are both theft of property. Other than that they are NOT the same. Theft of any motor vehicle is Theft 1st, regardless of the value of the vehicle. Theft 1st is a Class B Felony.

Unless a political sign is worth more than $500.00, it would be Theft 3rd, which is a Class A misdemeanor.

No, they are not the same. Related charges yes, because both require the taking of another's property and intent to deprive the owner of that property. Not the same, because of the value difference, and the severity of punishment.

The Franklin County DA gave a poor and inaccurate example to the reporter.
WHile I see jetboy's point of "theft is theft" -- I agree with Sass and Huck that the penalty for the actual crime depending on the worth of the item stolen is relevant...like the sign issue...we all know it is a misdemeanor...most anyone would get in jail would most likely be a fine and a suspended sentence, but if you stole a car -- that would be a heftier price to pay...I'd probably trust the car thief more than a sign thief though...depending on his attitude regarding what he had done...the car thief would be more likely to admit that what he had done was wrong...the sign thief would try to justify his actions...would all depend on that remorse factor and taking responsibility for one's actions...but the core issue is the same for both -- theft is theft...
quote:
Originally posted by DixieChik:
I'd probably trust the car thief more than a sign thief though...depending on his attitude regarding what he had done...the car thief would be more likely to admit that what he had done was wrong...the sign thief would try to justify his actions...


I don't trust any of them. There is an old saying that I believe: There is no honor among thieves.
Dixie Chic, Jetboy, and Sassy Kim write "thieves are thieves" and they are putting ML in this category. According to the posts and the information we have, ML did not steal the sign. He took it down and returned it to the candidate. The candidate pressed charges AFTER the sign was returned. Is that not correct?
quote:
Originally posted by jetboy:
It is theft of personal property...doesn't matter where it is. The charge for stealing that sign is the same as for stealing a car.

source


Your source (article from Franklin County newspaper) dealt solely with the district attorney's opinion on POLITICAL signs. The "Tuff Truck" sign had nothing to do with politics. I again submit that those who place signs illegally and then complain to the law enforcement authorities about their being removed do so at the risk that their own reporting of same constitutes an admission that they violated the law by placing the signs illegally in the first place. The law does not look kindly upon those who come with unclean hands to seek redress for perceived offenses traceable back to their own violations of law!!
If it is not your property, and it is on land other than yours, and you take it without permission, it is theft of property. It doesn't matter of the legality of it being placed illegally. It is not your right to move it, UNLESS you are a govt sanctioned employee and you are moving by order of that govt.
Difficult to believe this thread has received so many opinions.
Bottom line for me:
If you put it on my land or in my yard with or without my permission it is mine. I'll take it if I want to.
If you put it in someone els' yard, it is theirs (see above)
If you put a sign on highway or street ROW, it becomes the property of the public who owns the land and see above. I have no problem with anyone who desires to do a roadside cleanup. They can do with them whatever seems good in their eyes, just like cans and bottles, they are just trash.
quote:
Originally posted by bob:
Dixie Chic, Jetboy, and Sassy Kim write "thieves are thieves" and they are putting ML in this category. According to the posts and the information we have, ML did not steal the sign. He took it down and returned it to the candidate. The candidate pressed charges AFTER the sign was returned. Is that not correct?


A thief is still a thief...if you and your child walk into a QuikMart and he pockets a 5 cent piece of gum without you seeing. You get to the car and he pulls out the gum so you realize what he has done; you do 1 of 2 things -- go in a tell the clerk what happened and you pay for it (teaching your child it is ok to steal bc dad will buy me out of it) or you take your child by the arm and have him return it and apologize for STEALING the gum....either way, your child is a thief because he stole a piece of gum. Whether he returned it or not or whether he paid for it or not -- he took something without paying for it and without having the proper permission. So yes, a thief is a thief...

now will he always be? THat depends on his taking responsibility for what he did and his remorse for causing the whole situation in the first place. HOnestly, I believe that kids can be turned around, but adults that have apparently gotten away with their actions in the past and feel a sense of superiority to do what took place makes me question a lot of things.

So when you look at theft logically, either way, whether the signs were returned or not is of no consequence if you really think about it...just because you recover the stolen items doesn't mean a theft didn't occur...
quote:
Originally posted by DixieChik:
THat depends on his taking responsibility for what he did and his remorse for causing the whole situation in the first place. HOnestly, I believe that kids can be turned around, but adults that have apparently gotten away with their actions in the past and feel a sense of superiority to do what took place makes me question a lot of things.


This man is a banker, he deals with money....maybe not paper money on the teller line, but money, loans, confidential information about most everyone in town. It should make anyone wonder about a lot of things. If he would perform a "physical theft", would he do the same with a paper theft? Lack of remorse=sense of superiority=potential to perform something illegal again in the future.
Would you trust this man to handle YOUR finances?
quote:
Originally posted by thewize1:
This man is a banker, he deals with money....maybe not paper money on the teller line, but money, loans, confidential information about most everyone in town. It should make anyone wonder about a lot of things. If he would perform a "physical theft", would he do the same with a paper theft? Lack of remorse=sense of superiority=potential to perform something illegal again in the future.
Would you trust this man to handle YOUR finances?


Yes I would trust him with my finances! And go ahead and question my ethics all you want. I have no problem standing up for my husband and my friends. So if that means I'm unethical then whatever you want to think is your opinion.

Speaking of unethical and illegal things, I saw a Rogersville PD cut through a parking lot to avoid a red light??? Maybe I should have filed a report....but I have better things to do and I know the officer and it really wasn't on my list of priorities that day.

Tell me...what is your grudge against ML? I have to wonder if you were a former NEMS employee or maybe higher up who got booted because of the contract change.
quote:
Originally posted by cpa33707:
quote:
Originally posted by thewize1:
This man is a banker, he deals with money....maybe not paper money on the teller line, but money, loans, confidential information about most everyone in town. It should make anyone wonder about a lot of things. If he would perform a "physical theft", would he do the same with a paper theft? Lack of remorse=sense of superiority=potential to perform something illegal again in the future.
Would you trust this man to handle YOUR finances?


Yes I would trust him with my finances! And go ahead and question my ethics all you want.

Tell me...what is your grudge against ML? I have to wonder if you were a former NEMS employee or maybe higher up who got booted because of the contract change.


cpa -- Unless you truly are a CPA and had been caught red handed doing something illegal, I see no reason to question your ethics or your loyalty to ML. Please listen when I say that this has nothing to do with EMS services or with Northstar or anything other than the fact that ML was caught on camera committing this act...there is no grudge there is no vendetta -- that is what you would like I know because that would justify things in your mine, but that is not the case...sometimes things really are black and white...there is no gray in this for many people...
Wize and Dixie Chick.
I am curious. Why do you continue to drag this gentlemans name through the mud? Do you know all the facts? Innocent until proven guilty? We are not in China you know (thank goodness).

I would be very careful as to what you post and make sure your identitly is secure. From my understanding the wheels are already in motion by several individuals (including this ML) in regards to legal action concerning this matter.
I was simply answering bob's question of "theft is theft" with my two cents worth on the matter with an example of "theft if theft"...

cpa as I agreed with bk, whom I believe is your husband, and I have tried to let this go...you continued the arguement...so are we to let it go or continue to go in circles?

As for the Rogersville police officer -- I am not aware of any crime he has committed in this incident...so I am not sure what you are talking about...however, if it is found that he committed a crime -- then yes, he should be punished for that crime...he should be held accountable just like you or I would be held accountable for our wrong doings...
It didn't appear that you let it go as you kept posting on theft and referring to the sign thief.

This is the RPD incident that I referred to in a previous post: Speaking of unethical and illegal things, I saw a Rogersville PD cut through a parking lot to avoid a red light??? Maybe I should have filed a report....but I have better things to do and I know the officer and it really wasn't on my list of priorities that day.
quote:
Originally posted by cpa33707:
quote:
Originally posted by thewize1:
This man is a banker, he deals with money....maybe not paper money on the teller line, but money, loans, confidential information about most everyone in town. It should make anyone wonder about a lot of things. If he would perform a "physical theft", would he do the same with a paper theft? Lack of remorse=sense of superiority=potential to perform something illegal again in the future.
Would you trust this man to handle YOUR finances?


Yes I would trust him with my finances! And go ahead and question my ethics all you want. I have no problem standing up for my husband and my friends. So if that means I'm unethical then whatever you want to think is your opinion.

Speaking of unethical and illegal things, I saw a Rogersville PD cut through a parking lot to avoid a red light??? Maybe I should have filed a report....but I have better things to do and I know the officer and it really wasn't on my list of priorities that day.

Tell me...what is your grudge against ML? I have to wonder if you were a former NEMS employee or maybe higher up who got booted because of the contract change.


CPA, I have met Morris once and consider him a fine person. Bank Independent is my personal bank, and I think they are lucky to have him. I think this whole thing is overblown, but...

You have never posted here before and you don't know anyone. You have not taken the time to read previous posts in order to know who the players are. If you had, you would know that this is certainly not the case with Dixie. You do not help Morris' case by making rash claims that are laughable.
Yes, I see where you used his name and not Dixie's. Still, you must remember Dixie is a disinterested party.

I have lived in Lexington and have several friends who work for the city of Rogersville. Lexington is, dare I say it, another word for corruption in most instances, and my friends in Rogersville dislike the current administration and fear for their jobs.

So, yes, I think someone could have set Morris up. It is less than a week until the trial. I'm sure he will be allowed to present his side adequately there. I can see if Mother Theresa had been accused, it could cause some doubt, especially among those who don't know anyone personally.
I'm wondering if the people here standing up for ML would be doing the same if, say, the Chief of Police was accused of the same crime.

Or would it be a case of pointing and saying, "See? Cops are bad?"

I think the point has been made that ML is accused of the crime of 3rd Degree Theft of Property. I think it's time to let this rest and let the man have his day in court.
It's time to put an end to this thread. YES, it's OK to take political signs down. they are an eye sore and usually obstruct your view at intersections. Not to mention if one is on your own property or in front of your property on the state right of way. I support anyone removing this litter from our highways. There should be a law banning them. Let the politicians use bill boards, pass out cards at ball games and knock on doors to get their name out to the public.
quote:
It's time to put an end to this thread. YES, it's OK to take political signs down. they are an eye sore and usually obstruct your view at intersections. Not to mention if one is on your own property or in front of your property on the state right of way. I support anyone removing this litter from our highways. There should be a law banning them. Let the politicians use bill boards, pass out cards at ball games and knock on doors to get their name out to the public.


Good post
That was simply an aside. I don't think Rogersville has a monopoly on corrupt politicians. All isolated small towns seem to produce so-called public servants who justify their actions as for the public good. They are elected over and over until they come to think of the office they hold as a right rather than an honor. In larger cities, such politicians don't bother to justify their actions by cloaking them in such noble terms, but just take the money and run.

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