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First I don't believe I am on the Religion forum. The Jews think they are right, the Muslims think they are right, every Christian religion think they are right.

The Jews say there is no Christ.
The Muslims say that Christ is the greatest prophest and messengers to humankind, but they don't believe he is the son of GOD.

Athiest is one that denies the existence of GOD.

Guess we won't know until we are gone, for me I believe in CHRIST, what have I got to lose, I will take my chances on HIM.

I won't judge no ones faith, I don't have that right and don't need it not now, not never.
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quote:
Originally posted by blue's:
Guess we won't know until we are gone, for me I believe in CHRIST, what have I got to lose, I will take my chances on HIM.

Hi Blue,

From your statement, it sounds more like you have bought a lottery ticket. Question: Do you have a saving, personal relationship with Jesus Christ?

Do you have Him in your heart, spiritually -- not in your head, intellectually?

There is an eternal difference.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

HAVE YOU MADE THIS COMMITMENT?

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quote:
Originally posted by blue's:
Guess we won't know until we are gone, for me I believe in CHRIST, what have I got to lose, I will take my chances on HIM.

I won't judge no ones faith, I don't have that right and don't need it not now, not never.


You say you believe in him but do you live for him? That's the hard part, having to obey & walk the line so we won't go to Hell.
Not trying to be ugly, I'm just curious. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by blue's:
Guess we won't know until we are gone, for me I believe in CHRIST, what have I got to lose, I will take my chances on HIM.

I won't judge no ones faith, I don't have that right and don't need it not now, not never.

You say you believe in him but do you live for him? That's the hard part, having to obey & walk the line so we won't go to Hell. Not trying to be ugly, I'm just curious.

Hi Chick,

Good question!

But, on the second part, I have to disagree. We do not follow Him from fear of going to hell. We follow Him because we love Him.

Do you live with your spouse because you fear him? Or do you live with your spouse because you love him?

Very similar situation -- except the one with Jesus is eternal. Well, actually, if both you and your spouse are believers -- that relationship will be eternal also.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Blue,

I just want to say I don't think there is anything wrong with being a protestant, or Jew.
Heaven is open to all (even the pre-Plymouth rock Indians that Kraven talked about). I don't judge people's beliefs in God, or if they don't believe in God.
I only tell Bill he's wrong when he speaks about my faith. I don't like the misinformation, and lies he spreads.

It probably gets annoying seeing all the back and fourth. Sometimes I think to myself no wonder the atheist aren't signing up at the local church... Who says, "bickering ....ooohhhh, I want some of that......"

And this back and fourth isn't encouraging for Semi, and Willow as they seek their spiritual path.

My apologies. and I mean that.

Sometimes, I read a bill Gray post, and think "let it go. Let it go. Don't respond".

After nearly 40 years of criticism, You just want to set them straight.

The Mormon temple is within walking distance from my house, and they never give my the third degree like he does...
quote:
Originally posted by House of David:
Blue,

I just want to say I don't think there is anything wrong with being a protestant, or Jew.
Heaven is open to all (even the pre-Plymouth rock Indians that Kraven talked about). I don't judge people's beliefs in God, or if they don't believe in God. I only tell Bill he's wrong when he speaks about my faith. I don't like the misinformation, and lies he spreads.

Hi David,

You keep saying that I have lied about your church's doctrines. Yet, you have not shown me where I have lied.

It is easy to stand on the school yard and yell, "You are wrong! You are wrong!"

But, the real challenge comes when you are asked to prove it. And, so far, you have not responded at all when I challenge your accusations.

When I make a declaration, I support it with Scripture. All you do is yell even louder -- but, you offer nothing real to support your accusations.

Maybe your church should add that to your Catechism: How to support your accusations of lying.

But, then, how can one support what is not true? In the same way, you cannot show proof that your Roman Catholic doctrines can be found in the Bible.

If you are going to make accusations -- at least support those accusations.

I have never accused YOU of lying. I have said that I do not believe your church doctrines are Biblical. But, I have not called you a liar, nor have I made any accusations against you personally. Is that what they teach in Roman Catholic apologetics now? "Call them liars!"

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Semi,
You cannot possibly be ugly. You have a beautiful mind and an equally lovely soul.


quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
Thank you, you're such a sweetheart!! Wink


quote:
Originally posted by House of David:
I agree. Beautiful heart and soul.


I'm speechless. The kindness of you both has brought tears to my eyes.
Thank you.

I'm sure God, if he exist, would not agree with you. Frowner
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Semi,
You cannot possibly be ugly. You have a beautiful mind and an equally lovely soul.


quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
Thank you, you're such a sweetheart!! Wink


quote:
Originally posted by House of David:
I agree. Beautiful heart and soul.


I'm speechless. The kindness of you both has brought tears to my eyes.
Thank you.

I'm sure God would not agree with you. Frowner




This pain you have inside brings me to tears.
God does love you. You said in another thread that religion hurt you. I am so sorry for that.

The spiritual abuser vs. Jesus
A spiritual abuser takes from another for his/her gain or pleasure.
Jesus gives of himself.

A spiritual abuser wounds with words and touch.
Jesus heals with words and touch.

A spiritual abuser's love is conditional.
Jesus' love is unconditional.

A spiritual abuser demands silence and secrecy.
Jesus encourages people to "go and share the good news."

A spiritual abuser controls with threats, coercion, manipulation, and physical punishment.
Jesus does not force himself or his views on anyone.

A spiritual abuser degrades a person's self-worth.
Jesus edifies.

A spiritual abuser imprisons and renders one powerless.
Jesus frees and empowers.

A spiritual abuser desires power.
Jesus desires relationship.

A spiritual abuser offers nothing.
Jesus offers eternal life.

by Shelley G. Jones
Semi,

Right now it might be good to just walk in the sunlight and feel the warmth on your face.

Be still in that moment. Don't think about rules,
regulations, religious do's and dont's.

Feel the breeze, rain on your face.

Are you to young to remember Eddie Brickell?

Her song "what I am"
She says " religion is a smile on a dog"

That may offend some people. but if you look at it a different way. approach God through His creation. Quietly, slowly.

Sometimes we just feel like running through a field, flowers and all, then collapse to the ground a stare at the sky. Blue, grand, open sky... and whisper to God.

Then as the sun warms your face, tell your self "he loves me" because He does.
Bill, you know I don't play the lottery and the casinos don't pay 98% more like 5% on them machines.

Then again one who stands on a ballfield does not make them a ballplayer, no more than one who attends a church makes them a Christian.

I have read the Bible through and through from the beginning to the end seven times, read the Koran once, have not tried reading the Zoroastrian Bible yet.

Bill, go read St. Luke Chapter 18 verses 22-30.
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by blue's:
Then again one who stands on a ballfield does not make them a ballplayer, no more than one who attends a church makes them a Christian.


blue's, at one time you had turned against anything to do with God/religion.
What happened to change your mind?
It's ok to tell me to mind my own business. Cool


Think about it, what has caused more wars than anything else religion. How much money has people made from religion, more than likey more than you and I can count, sorry JESUS is not for sale.

Go read 1 John Chapter 4 verses 19-21
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by House of David:
This pain you have inside brings me to tears.
God does love you. You said in another thread that religion hurt you. I am so sorry for that.

Thank you, but don't waste your tears on me, I'm not worth it. There's people much more deserving of it than me.

Hi Chick,

You are wrong! You ARE worth it! You are precious in the eyes of God and He wants very much for you to come into His Family.

And, David and I believe you are worth it. We both would love to know that, one day (but, not too soon) we will walk with you in heaven.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
What is the Koran?


semiannualchick, the Koran is a more like what the Muslims beleive in, there is a lot of teachings in it about the Old Testaments and the New Testaments, mostly though about the Old Testaments, it's not as long as the Holy Bible is and can be read in about 1 to 2 day's.
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
You keep saying that I have lied about your church's doctrines. Yet, you have not shown me where I have lied.

Yeah, we both have. On several occasions. Let it go.

Hi VP,

No, my Friend, when both of you continue to call me a liar -- I cannot let it go. Either show proof or admit to our Religion Forum Friends that what you have been saying is not true. You and David keep saying that I have lied, a serious charge -- but, I have yet to see the proof. The two of you remind me of joke I posted back in 2008 in a dialogue with MeanAsASnake:

I am reminded of a joke I recently heard: A lady goes to her new gyn doctor for a check up. While he was questioning her, she told him she had been married three times. Taken by surprise, the doctor told her, "But, you are still a virgin! How could you have been married three times?"

She explained, "My first husband was gay -- and did not want to. My second husband was an alcoholic -- and could not.

My third husband was a salesman who sat on the side of the bed all night telling me how great it was GOING to be!"


You and David keep telling me how great your proof of my lies is going to be -- but, all you do is talk about it.

I am still waiting for that Missouri proof: SHOW ME! Actually, I know that you cannot -- for you would have to show that your Roman Catholic doctrines are Biblical -- and you cannot show what is not there.

It seems you both are all talk -- and no show!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by blue's:
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
What is the Koran?

semiannualchick, the Koran is a more like what the Muslims beleive in, there is a lot of teachings in it about the Old Testaments and the New Testaments, mostly though about the Old Testaments, it's not as long as the Holy Bible is and can be read in about 1 to 2 day's.

Hi Blue and Chick,

Actually, the Qur'an (Koran)is the holy book of Islam and is over 1000 pages. I just went to look at my copy just to verify. It is their bible, their holy book.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by blue's:
Bill, you know I don't play the lottery and the casinos don't pay 98% more like 5% on them machines.

Then again one who stands on a ballfield does not make them a ballplayer, no more than one who attends a church makes them a Christian.

I have read the Bible through and through from the beginning to the end seven times, read the Koran once, have not tried reading the Zoroastrian Bible yet.

Bill, go read St. Luke Chapter 18 verses 22-30.

Hi Blue,

Go to the new discussion "What Is Jesus Christ's Message To Us in Luke 18:18-30? and you will find that I have responded to your suggestion.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by blue's:
Then again one who stands on a ballfield does not make them a ballplayer, no more than one who attends a church makes them a Christian.


quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
blue's, at one time you had turned against anything to do with God/religion.
What happened to change your mind?
It's ok to tell me to mind my own business. Cool


quote:
Originally posted by blue's:
Think about it, what has caused more wars than anything else religion. How much money has people made from religion, more than likey more than you and I can count, sorry JESUS is not for sale.

Go read 1 John Chapter 4 verses 19-21


Ok, you lost me. What does Jesus not being for sale or those scriptures have to do with my question? Confused
quote:
No, my Friend, when both of you continue to call me a liar -- I cannot let it go. Either show proof or admit to our Religion Forum Friends that what you have been saying is not true. You and David keep saying that I have lied, a serious charge -- but, I have yet to see the proof


Well Bill I trust you have read David's thorough Biblical "backing" of Catholic doctrines by now.
We have refuted all the lies and mistruths you have stated against the church.
Now, you are talking in circles. I have shown you over and over where you have lied.

Now. You have all the Scriptural backing you need. Now you can see plainly, in the Word of God why Catholics "do" what we do and believe as we do.

You should apologize now. Show us that you are not beyond reproach, and that you were wrong about the Catholic church.
quote:
Originally posted by House of David:
Semi,

Right now it might be good to just walk in the sunlight and feel the warmth on your face.

Be still in that moment. Don't think about rules,
regulations, religious do's and dont's.

Feel the breeze, rain on your face.

Are you to young to remember Eddie Brickell?

Her song "what I am"
She says " religion is a smile on a dog"

That may offend some people. but if you look at it a different way. approach God through His creation. Quietly, slowly.

Sometimes we just feel like running through a field, flowers and all, then collapse to the ground a stare at the sky. Blue, grand, open sky... and whisper to God.

Then as the sun warms your face, tell your self "he loves me" because He does.


/Cheers sir.

pretty much covers it.
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
quote:
No, my Friend, when both of you continue to call me a liar -- I cannot let it go. Either show proof or admit to our Religion Forum Friends that what you have been saying is not true. You and David keep saying that I have lied, a serious charge -- but, I have yet to see the proof

Well Bill I trust you have read David's thorough Biblical "backing" of Catholic doctrines by now. We have refuted all the lies and mistruths you have stated against the church.
Now, you are talking in circles. I have shown you over and over where you have lied.

Now. You have all the Scriptural backing you need. Now you can see plainly, in the Word of God why Catholics "do" what we do and believe as we do.

You should apologize now. Show us that you are not beyond reproach, and that you were wrong about the Catholic church.

Hi VP,

The only thing I have seen is four pages of David posting ONLY Scripture verses -- without even ONE single personal word of explanation.

If he, or you, cannot explain how those Scripture verses and passages prove the Roman Catholic doctrines -- all you both are doing is blowing smoke, i.e., as in "smoke screens."

Still, neither of you have shown one iota of evidence or proof of your doctrinal beliefs -- or that I have lied.

But, I did see a lot of "smoke" rising on the horizon. Was this your "smoke screen" or your mind blowing its fuse while attempting to think up another false accusation?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:

The only thing I have seen is four pages of David posting ONLY Scripture verses -- without even ONE single personal word of explanation.


the quotes were the explaination.

you asked to be shown where catholisism was biblical.

he quoted dozen upon dozen of lines that backed up catholic belief.

dozens upon dozens of quotes that need no explanation... the words mean exactly what they say.

BUT now that you've been given biblical proof, you reject it and tell us that the words need explanation and interpretation.

you are the most pathetic form of liar. you make a challenge, and when give proof you reject it and declare victory.

the angels weep that you call yourself a christian.

quote:


If he, or you, cannot explain how those Scripture verses and passages prove the Roman Catholic doctrines -- all you both are doing is blowing smoke, i.e., as in "smoke screens."



let me take a whack at a couple...


{from HoD]

Biblical reason Catholics confess to a priest.
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9)

{end quote from HoD]

explanation -
if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins.

biblical reasons for priestly authority -
John 20:21-23 - "As the Father sent me, so am I sending you. After saying this he breathed on them and said: Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone's sins, they are forgiven; if you retain anyone's sins, they are retained

explanation -

Jesus said 'God sent me, so i am sending you, you now have the holy spirit and the ability to forgive the sins of others.


i'm going to leave it with just those, and wait and see what kind of pathetic embarassment of rationalization you try and pull out of your old moldy hat to pretend that you are right yet again.

you've told people to biblically defend catholisism time and time again.

HoD just biblically spanked you... took you to school and left you drooling.

the only problem is, you are the slimy little type of worm who will stand there with your drawers around your ankles still bent over and yelling ' NU UH!! AM NOT!! I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I!!

i knew you were a sad little weasel, but i'm not sure if i realized it was this bad.

you ask for proof. you are handed proof. you ignore proof and still declare you are right.


YOU, bill, are why i refuse to wear the label of christian... out of fear that people will put us in the same boat.
you are to christianity as osama bin laden is to islam.

you're enough to make a man lose his religion.....
Posted 11 September 2010 02:32 PM Hide Post
Bill, you are refuting yourself! You have ragged on House of David that his beliefs are not Biblical, now you are saying he hasn't TOLD you his beliefs. Then what have you been calling "un-Biblical"?

So either he HAS told you (and the rest of us his beliefs), or you were making it up every time you told him his beliefs are not Biblical.

And now that he has shown you scripture to back his beliefs, you MUST either accept his viewpoint as valid, even if your interpretation of those verses is different, or else you MUST admit that you are blowing smoke.

Do you see what I'm saying? He either told you his beliefs and you disagreed with him, or he never told you his beliefs, and so every time you have disagreed with him, you were MAKING IT UP. You can't have it both ways.


Bill, I posted this earlier today in another thread. I copied it over here for two reasons.

1) It applies here because we are talking about the same subject.

2) It shows where you got the "blowing smoke" idea stuck in your head today. No, of course I didn't make that saying up, but isn't it funny that you heard the words applied to you today, then immediately had to go throw that term at someone else.

Unfortunately, the only one blowing smoke is you. I have to give you credit though - at least you're still in the fray. Usually when someone proves you wrong you just ignore them.

But you HAVE been proven wrong on this one. House of David has told you his beliefs, and he has backed them up with scripture. EVERYBODY, and I do mean EVERYBODY here can see that.

So if you want any respect out of this bunch (all of us on this forum), you should just admit that while YOU don't hold with Roman Catholic beliefs, you can now see why THEY believe the way they do. And close with, "As long as you have invited Jesus into your heart, you ARE a Christian, and the rest is just frosting on the cake."
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
YOU, bill, are why i refuse to wear the label of christian... out of fear that people will put us in the same boat. you are to christianity as osama bin laden is to islam. you're enough to make a man lose his religion.....

Hi Nagel,

Use whatever excuses -- or whoever you want to justify your lack of faith -- that is no skin off my back. I will still be in heaven one of these days enjoying fellowship with billions of other Christian believers and my Lord, Jesus Christ. Where will you be?

I can just see it now, Nagel standing before Jesus Christ at Judgement and telling Him, "I refused to believe because I did not like Bill Gray!" And, I can imagine Jesus Christ telling Nagel, "Bill Gray was not responsible for your believing; only you were. Why did you refuse Me? Why did you continually attack My Chrisitan brethren?"

You will not be able to use the worn out old excuses, "Churches are too full of hypocrites" or "Bill Gray was just too pushy!" or "The churches only want my money!" When standing before Jesus Christ, those old excuses will not fly. And, I can imagine Jesus Christ saying, "Whose money?"

So, Nagel, just keep making all the excuses you want. They will not change the temperature in hell one degree.

Nagel, you tell me, "you're enough to make a man lose his religion."

How can one lose what one has never possessed?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Nagel,

Use whatever excuses -- or whoever you want to justify your lack of faith -- that is no skin off my back. I will still be in heaven one of these days enjoying fellowship with billions of other Christian believers and my Lord, Jesus Christ. Where will you be?



once again.
for the last time, i think, because i am tired of saying it.
i have no lack of faith. i believe strongly in god and his son.
i have a desire to not be confused with the same brand of heresy and hate and hipocracy that you spew.

you lie. you ask for proof that you've lied, and there is it, in the first line that you wrote in this reply. with your words you imply that i do not believe in god, and have no faith. that is a lie by implication.

you lie every time you feel threatened of meet a challenge you cannot defeat.
i notice you made a personal attack on me, and didnt' even TRY to dismiss the topic at hand, the one where HoD jus tspanked you in public and you tried to weasel your way out of it by pretending the answer meant nothing.

guess what bill.. every one else in this forum see's your words.. we all KNOW you just slapped down.

and God it watching you, and He sees the lack of character to display when faced with being proven wrong.


where will i be? rolling on the floor, laughing my butt off when i see the look on your face as you find out from christ 1st hand you've been wrong about everything.

quote:

I can just see it now, Nagel standing before Jesus Christ at Judgement and telling Him, "I refused to believe because I did not like Bill Gray!" And, I can imagine Jesus Christ telling Nagel, "Bill Gray was not responsible for your believing; only you were. Why did you refuse Me? Why did you continually attack My Chrisitan brethren?"



but why would i be saying that at all, bill? i do believe in christ.
i don't believe in YOU.
If he asks me why i refused to answer to the name 'christian' i will happily tell him " Lord, it was so that i wouldn't be confused with false prophest and liars and hatemongers like bill gray." and He will tell me, 'Oh.. yeah. .that makes sence. ok, here;s your halo, first door on the left, tell pete i'l lsee him about 7:30"

what i'd like to see is your answer when Jesus says " Bill - why did you continally Lie about people's faith? Thou Shalt Not Bare False Witness Against Thy Neighbor. that meant don't make stuff up, Bill, and don't tell lies about other people. yet i see here where you told lies about thenagel.. veep, who's a charming girl, even tho she's catholic, and when confronted by biblical verse by House of David, you lied and told everyone that those words.. MY words, some of them, wern't what they meant, and needed to be explained. so, bill, why did you spend so much time telling lies about other people in my name?"

quote:


So, Nagel, just keep making all the excuses you want. They will not change the temperature in hell one degree.



nope, excuses wouldn't help at all.
however, i make no excuses, because i have nothing to excuse.
Christ knows my heart, and He knows my mind. He doesn't need an excuse.
and you aren't significant enough to be given an explanation.
and because of the lies and commandments you break, because of the false imterpretation of the scripture you teach, because of all the little things you do,

YOU should be more worried about the ambient temp and heat index in hell than i bill.

quote:



Nagel, you tell me, "you're enough to make a man lose his religion."

How can one lose what one has never possessed?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Ah. i see.
so now you are declaring yourself God.
how else could you presume to know the state of my soul and the existance or lack their of of my faith?


i'll just write it off to ignorance, foolishness, alzheimers, and arrogance.

to lose ones religion, bill, is an old old old slang term that meant ' to lose ones temper'.

what it meant was, 'Bill, you great lying arrogant hate spreading hypocritical buffoon, you are making me angry with this whole thread."

and i admit it.. you were.. when someoen pulls the childish crap you are it makes me angry.

but then i went and had dinner and let it go and realized you aren't important enough to make me irritate, much less angry.

so.. now i'm back.. it's all good, and all i have to do is follow you aroudn this forum, doing my best to make people see how you spread false teachings, are a false prophet, and anyone who follows you will end up on the wrong path.

the good part is... you're really old and will be dead soon, and won't be able to lead people trying to find God astray anymore.

so really.. all any of us have to do is wait, and check the obits from time to time.

and hope.
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
... you're really old and will be dead soon, and won't be able to lead people trying to find God astray anymore.

so really.. all any of us have to do is wait, and check the obits from time to time.

and hope.



Wow OK...I posted this in the "Ask A Catholic" thread...but maybe we need a palate cleanser...

The points of agreement between Catholics and evangelical Protestants include:

belief in the Trinity nature God, God is the creator of the world, acceptance of Christ as the incarnation of God, trust in His virgin birth, miracles, His atoning death on the cross, bodily resurrection from the grave, ascension into heaven, future return in glory, the Holy Spirit's deity and involvement in redemption
the acknowledgment of sin, the need for grace and salvation view of Scripture being the inspiration God.

And if I may over-simplify a bit, the big difference would be faith alone or faith plus works.

For the sake of discussion I'll throw out this observation from Catholic philosopher Peter Kreeft from his book Fundamentals of the Faith:

"How do I resolve the Reformation? Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works? Very simple. No tricks. On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial. As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel. Whatever theological mistakes Luther made, whatever indispensable truths about the Church he denied, here is an indispensable truth he affirmed..."

He went on to write:

"Catholicism as well as Protestantism affirms the utterly free, gratuitous gift of forgiving grace in Christ, free for the taking, which taking is faith. Good works can only be the fruit of faith, flowing freely as a response to the new life within, not laboriously, to buy into heaven."

It would seem we Protestants and Catholics have a lot we can agree on.
quote:
The only thing I have seen is four pages of David posting ONLY Scripture verses -- without even ONE single personal word of explanation.

If he, or you, cannot explain how those Scripture verses and passages prove the Roman Catholic doctrines -- all you both are doing is blowing smoke, i.e., as in "smoke screens


So the Word of our Lord is a smoke screen. Incredible.
David posted so many Scriptural support of "our" doctrines.
Please keep in mind, this was at your request. You said "Show me"
He showed you.
Yet thats still not enough.
You have been shown, but if you cannot look past the preconceptions you have about the Church, you will never understand.
I really feel sorry for you. You are willing to go down looking like a fool in order to escape admitting you were wrong.
You said that Catholics worship statues.
thats one lie,
You said Mary is at the same level as Jesus.
Another lie.
You said that I needed to dust my Bible off.
Another lie.

Should I go on, or do you "get" it yet?
quote:
Good works can only be the fruit of faith, flowing freely as a response to the new life within, not laboriously, to buy into heaven."

RN,

Let's just concentrate on the phrase "Good works can only be the fruit of faith". Nonsense.

Morality is not the exclusive property of Christians, nor the religious in general. There is such a thing as atheist morality which I'll stand toe-to-toe with any religious morality. As we atheists find ourselves in larger and larger common cause, such morality is ever more evident.

Not picking on you, just giving you something to think about.

The religious can not think of a good deed that religion does that cannot be done by atheists, and is not.

Submitted FYI.


nsns

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