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Hi to my Forum Friends,

In an earlier discussion I began titled "Did Jesus Issue A Death Threat?" my atheist Friend, Uno, wrote regarding the "parable of the pounds" (Luke 19:11-27), "So, we can still talk about the hateful intent of Jesus' parable.  I think it is a sucky story and would never dream of trying to teach my followers a lesson by insinuating a death threat."

To rebut Uno's contention that this parable shows the evil ways of God and Jesus Christ, I wrote:

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In this parable, Jesus is speaking of the two judgments to come -- the Believer's Judgment, i.e., Bema Seat Judgment for believers (2 Corinthians 5:10, 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15) and the Great White Throne Judgment for non-believers (Revelation 20:11-15).

For the believers, we read in Luke 19:26 (nkjv), "For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him."    By this, He is telling us that those believers who have worked diligently to share the Word of God with the world -- will receive great rewards.

But, those "Couch Potato Christians" who died still waiting for folks to come to them so that they could evangelize -- will get few, if any, rewards in heaven.  Oh, don't get me wrong.  The greatest reward is being in heaven with our Lord and Savior.  But, wouldn't it be much better to hear Him say, "Well done, good servant; because you were faithful. . ."  (Luke 19:17 nkjv)?

Now to the verse which has Uno so excited, so giggly, we read in Luke 19:27, "But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me."

So, is Jesus Christ gloating in joy over killing His enemy?   No, for we are told in 2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."

However, you and I know there are many, many people who will continue to deny God, who will continue to deny Jesus Christ, and who will continue to do all in their power to denigrate God's Written Word, the Bible -- until they breathe their last breath in this mortal body.

At the end of His Millennial Reign on earth, those people WILL be resurrected to stand before Jesus Christ in judgment -- the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) -- and, then, those enemies of Jesus Christ, those people who absolutely refused to receive Him as Lord and Savior -- will go into the second death, the lake of fire, i.e., hell -- because they have chosen this for themselves.  They have sent themselves to hell.  God did not do thisGod offered them every possible way to avoid hell -- but, they   refused -- sending themselves into hell for eternity.

These are the people Jesus Christ describes in this "parable of the pounds" (Luke 19:11-27) -- when He tells the gathered crowd in Jericho, "But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We will not have this man to reign over us"  (Luke 19:14).

Yes, many non-believers will continue to harden their hearts, they will continue to deny Him as this verse tells us -- until they have passed the point of no return.  These people are in the same condition we find described in Hebrews 6:6 where the people had heard the Gospel, had heard the Word of God -- but, had hardened their hearts against Him, turning back to Judaism.  Because of their hardened hearts, there is no way for them to be saved -- thus, the unforgivable sin, dying without knowing Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

 

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And, Uno replies, "That still makes absolutely no sense.  Here we have a man that, to 'help' his followers attain immortality, He doesn't want to threaten them with violence himself  -- so he tells a parable and lets the character in the parable do the telling for him.  That's just stupid, Bill.  Anyone but the most deluded can see through that ruse.

Hell didn't really exist for the Jews until Jesus came along and introduced his loving followers to the threat against anyone who didn't follow him.

(In) Mark 9:43 Jesus says,  "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than with two  hands to go into Gehenna (translated as Hell), into the unquenchable fire."   So threats of the most violent kind imaginable were the 'tools of the trade' for this 'loving' monster that man created to punish those who don't toe the line.  It's the same story in almost all religions."

First, Uno, let's address your issue with hell.  You tell us, "Hell didn't really exist for the Jews until Jesus came along and introduced his loving followers to the threat against anyone who didn't follow him."

Not so, my Friend, "hell" is found throughout the Bible.

"Hell" (place of the dead) occurs 32 times in the NKJV Bible -- 19 of those occurrences in the Old Testament.

"Sheol" (place of the dead) occurs 18 times in the NKJV Bible -- all in the Old Testament.

"Hades" (hell, place of the dead) occurs 11 times in the NKJV Bible -- all in the New Testament.

Then, Uno, you write, "(In) Mark 9:43 Jesus says,  'If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than with two  hands to go into Gehenna (translated as Hell), into the unquenchable fire.'   So threats of the most violent kind imaginable were the 'tools of the trade' for this 'loving' monster that man created to punish those who don't toe the line.  It's the same story in almost all religions."

While the Greek word "geenna" in translated into the English word Gehenna, it is used in very few English Bible translations.  In the twelve English translations found on the Blue Letter Bible web site, only the Latin Vulgate (VUL) translation and two rather obscure translations [Young's Literal Translation (YLT) and Hebrew Names Version (HNV)] use the word Gehenna.  While the usage of the word Gehenna is very appropriate, as we shall see in the FAQ article article below -- it is not in common use in our Bible translations today.  Which makes me wonder, Uno, which translation are you using?

Strong's Concordance tells us, "Hell is the place of the future punishment call 'Gehenna' or 'Gehenna of fire.'  This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction."


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What Is The Place Of The Punishment Of The Wicked? (Hell)
Blue Letter Bible FAQ,
By Don Stewart of The Bible Answer Site™ (http://thebibleexplorer.com)
http://www.blueletterbible.org...t/stewart.cfm?id=162


If the soul, or spirit, of humans lives on -- it must live somewhere.  If they are going to suffer punishment for their sins, then this punishment must happen somewhere.  Though the place of this final punishment is not located (in the Bible) for us, it is named - hell.

Second Death:   The Scripture teaches there is a second death -- which is eternal separation from God.  In common speech, this place is known as hell.  The Bible says.

"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.  This is the second death"  (Revelation 21:8).

Once a person enters the realm of the wicked dead there is no escape.  Those who experience physical death without Christ will also experience the second death.

Different Words Used:   One of the important issues in considering what the Bible says about hell is understanding the different Hebrew and Greek words used to describe where people will be judged.  Many English versions render the words Sheol, Hades, Gehenna, and Tartarus by the one English word, "hell."  This is unfortunate because each term has different shades of meanings -- and speaks of different phases of God's judgment.

Different Phases:    Sheol and Hades are terms used of the intermediate state of the human dead -- while Tartarus is used of the intermediate state of fallen angels.  None of these three terms refer to the final state of the wicked.  Only Gehenna speaks of everlasting punishment for both wicked humans and sinning angels.  Gehenna, therefore, or the lake of fire, would be equivalent to what we understand as hell.

Final Judgment:   When most people think of hell -- it means the permanent place of final judgment.  The Bible calls this place Gehenna, or the lake of fire.

Spoken Of Frequently:  The subject of hell is found frequently in Scripture.  The Bible speaks of God's wrath more than His love or mercy.  It is not because His wrath is greater than His mercy, it is to warn the people of the upcoming judgment.  Jesus said.

"The one who has an ear, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.  The one who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death"  (Revelation 2:11).

The Scripture says:    "Blessed and holy is the one who has part in the first resurrection.  Over such the second death has no power . . .  Then Death and Hades (or those in Hades/Torment) were cast into the lake of fire.  This is the second death"   (Revelation 20:6,14).

Actual Place:   As heaven is an actual place -- so is hell.  The Bible links the two places together.  It (is) not the playground of the Devil, nor does it refer to any punishment here on earth.  It is a real place where real people will spend eternity apart from God.

Created For Sinning Angels:   When God created the heavens and the earth, everything was very good.

"God saw everything that He had made, and indeed, it was very good.  And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day"  (Genesis 1:31).

(At) Some time, in the past, there was an angelic rebellion.  When this occurred sin entered the previously sinless universe.  Hell was then created.  It was not part of God's original creation or design, but was made specifically for the Devil and his angels.  Jesus said:

"Then He will say to those at His left, 'You that are accursed, depart from Me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41).

Sinful Humans:   Although hell was not created for humanity, those humans who reject God's gift of salvation will be sent to this place of judgment.  Since everyone has been made to exist eternally, those who reject Christ and His gift of salvation must be sent somewhere.  The spiritual condition in which a person dies will continue for all eternity.  Jesus said:

"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins"  (John 8:24).

Summary:   Hell, or the final judgment, is an actual place of punishment.  It does exist.  It was not made for humanity, but rather for the Devil and his angels.  When God created the heavens and the earth, He created them very good.  After the angelic rebellion occurred God made hell as a place to send these evil creatures.  Those who reject God's free gift of salvation will be sent there (along with Satan and his fallen angels). 

Bold, italic, underline, and parenthetical emphasis in the FAQ article above is mine.

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Before we go further, let's remove one possible source of confusion found in this FAQ article by Don Stewart.

Different Phases:   Sheol and Hades are terms used of the intermediate state of the human dead -- while Tartarus is used of the intermediate state of fallen angels.  None of these three terms refer to the final state of the wicked.  Only Gehenna speaks of everlasting punishment for both wicked humans and sinning angels.  Gehenna, therefore, or the lake of fire, would be equivalent to what we understand as hell.

This does not, in any way, imply Purgatory as the intermediate place of the dead.   "Sheol" in the Old Testament Hebrew means "abode of the dead" and is the same as the Greek "Hades" of the New Testament.  In Luke 16:19-31, when we read of Lazarus, the  rich man, and Abraham -- it is called Hades; but the equivalent in Hebrew would be Sheol.

We know from Luke 16 that there were two compartments in Hades at that time -- the Bosom of Abraham, or Paradise, which was the temporary dwelling place of dead believers such as Lazarus and the repentant thief on the cross (Luke 23:43).  The other compartment, Torment, was, and is, the holding place of those who died as non-believers, i.e., the rich man and the second thief on the cross with Jesus Christ.

Until Christ died on the cross and was resurrected -- all believers were in Hades/Paradise and all non-believers were in Hades/Torment.  When Christ was resurrected, He led the believers in Paradise into heaven (Ephesians 4:8).  Why did believers have to wait until His resurrection to enter heaven?   Jesus tells us, in John 14:6, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

There has always been only ONE WAY to enter heaven and that is through Jesus Christ.  So, until He came, was crucified, and resurrected no one could enter heaven through Him.  All the Old Testament saints and all the New Testament saints who died before His resurrection -- waited in Hades/Paradise for His resurrection.

This in no way implies a Purgatory where one must make penance for sins until the penance erases, or atones for, the sins committed in this life -- or where those still alive can pray for, and buy prayer, for loved ones stuck in Purgatory.  As Abraham told the rich man in Luke 16, and I am paraphrasing, "Those in Hades cannot go back and warn loved ones still alive -- and those still alive cannot, in any way, affect the destiny of those already in Hades."

Everyone's eternal destination is set in concrete the moment the person breathes his/her last breath in this mortal life.  Since His resurrection, the moment a person dies -- he/she has made a commitment to heaven or to Hades/hell.  The moment that last breath is breathed -- there is no second chance.  It is either the Glory Train to heaven -- or the Slippery Slope heading to hell.  It is that  simple -- and final.

Hades/Paradise was a holding place for believers waiting for our Savior Jesus Christ to be crucified and resurrected -- so that He could lead them out of the temporary Hades/Paradise and into the permanent Heaven/Paradise (Ephesians 4:8).  At that time, imagine a sign being hung on the doors of Hades/Paradise -- "Moved To A New Permanent Location -- Heaven."

But, Hades/Torment is still the holding place for all non-believers who die in their denial of God and Jesus Christ and where they will wait to be resurrected for the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).  After the Rapture, the 7 year Tribulation, and the 1000 year Millennial Reign -- all the non-believers will be resurrected in their immortal, eternal bodies -- to stand before Jesus Christ  at the Great White Throne Judgment.   Until then, Hades/Torment will still be very much in business -- and, unfortunately, business will be booming!

Uno, if you, or any of our Forum Friends, would like to talk about what a person must do to be assured of eternal life in Christ -- I will be happy to chat with you -- via Private Mail, e-mail, telephone, or on the public Religion Forum.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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"irst, Uno, let's address your issue with hell.  You tell us, "Hell didn't really exist for the Jews until Jesus came along and introduced his loving followers to the threat against anyone who didn't follow him."

Not so, my Friend, "hell" is found throughout the Bible."

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Who doesn't know that?  What I should have stated is the Hell that you preach about, the one with the lake of fire, didn't exist until the fictional character named Jesus spake of it.

The location of hell?  Inside the earth.  Bill, we've looked. There's nothign there but radioactive molten magma.   What would ancient people think of stinking (burning sulfur) burning stuff coming from the earth?  It was obviously a warning of that what lies beneath awaits those who don't tow the line and believe exactly how the church leaders wanted one to believe.  Makes perfect sense to ancient people who had no idea of how nature actually worked.

We know better now.  The only Hell that exists is that which we make for ourselves on the surface of the earth. 

Bill, ANY form of coercion that uses threats of violence to keep people in line is just plain evil.  Pure evil.

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