1 Corinthians 13:12, "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known."

1 John 3:2, "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is."

Revelation 21:3-5, "And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.  And He who sits on the throne said, 'Behold, I am making all things new.'  And He said, 'Write, for these words are faithful and true.' "

And, then, we will go into eternity with Him -- to be eternally in the blessed presence of God.  Hallelujah!   That, my Friend, will be heaven.  I pray that you will soon get your ticket for the Glory Train while you still have time.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Well bill I see you can't answer the question and have no idea what your day would be like if there was a heaven and by some fluke you ended up there. Once more, I don't believe in any of that stuff so you can ride that "glory train" all by yourself. As stated before, I wouldn't want to be stuck around you, or people like you, for two minutes, much less an eternity. Where will I go when I die? I haven't decided yet. Still going over the options. Grave, urn, mausoleum, not sure.

This should solve your dilemma.  It is a Multiple Choice Test:

WITH ONLY TWO ANSWERS!

What dilemma? I have no dilemma, I have options, and it's not a test.  I just haven't decided yet. BTW, a multiple choice test has more than two answers to choose from.

Multiple-Choice Tests:

A multiple-choice test usually has dozens of questions or "items." For each question, the test- taker is supposed to select the "best" choice among a set of four or five options. 

I'll let you know if and when I get there, If it is there!

We don't know for sure because of a sanctified body and mind.

You will not be bored.

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24 hours of fly fishing.

I do not know what it will be like and there is no living person that can answer that question, the closest answer that I can come up with is that it will certainly be a whole lot better than your typical day in hell.

Very odd, no "believer" has any idea at all what their heaven will be like.  Wonder why that is.

Well fred, since you have no idea what your heaven would be like, how could you possibly know what your hell would be like?

Nothing odd about it, none have seen photos or been there yet. All we know is that according to the one who created both places that it's better than here and since I like it here so much then it's a safe bet that I'll like it there too.

It was "said" to be "better than here" a few thousand years ago. There's been a lot of progress since then. I can imagine what their idea of heaven must have been. It just came to me that there is a lot of talk about a heaven from believers, but none have ever actually said how they thought it would be. Thus my question about a believer's ideas on the subject. And once more, I'm surprised that no one has actually formed their own idea of what it would be like.

None of us know the finer details. In the Bible, Heaven is described as paradise which can mean different things to different people. Hell is described as a place of torment and as the lake of fire, past that we don't know many of the details of Hell either but you can bet that it's not a place that you want to take up residence.

It's true that none of us will know until we get there. That's just the way it is, and speculation would be pointless.

What about those "Christians" that claim to have died & saw Heaven but said for some reason God sent them back.

Their imagination/dream?

___

I could buy that, Smokey1.  Nice to see that you and I have at least one thing in common! I would add that each fish caught would be a new world record,  that there would be no wind knots, and that every outfit would  automatically have perfectly-matched rod, line and leader.  Also, there would be no slippery rocks on the heavenly stream bottoms and no trees or snags would ever interrupt the perfect placement of my flies scant inches from the ready mouths of those record fish!

___

The human mind plays strange tricks under stress, both in believers and in non-believers.  God does not return them for further development.

_______________________

Fly fishing is interesting to watch & looks like an art of it's own.

Heaven will have acres of grass to cut, and lots of snacks.

I am truly surprised that no one has any idea what their heaven would be like. I had my ideas about it  when I was a kid, and back then that "streets of gold and mansions", people with big old bird wings playing harps and all that stuff sounded creepy to me and my friends. It always had a kind of "body snatcher" feel to it. Creepy and boring. 

When I was a kid, I always thought of it as a place where everyone floated around on clouds.

With my luck I would stuck between Tammy-Fay Baker and Joyce Meyers. Thanks, but I'll pass.

Maybe I can give you a different perspective on heaven and hell.   Take a look at the new discussion titled "Heaven And Hell - What Will They Be Like?"

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

No thanks bill. I wanted to know what others idea of heaven was. You couldn't answer. I'm sure your thread is just another of your rambling sermons and I'm not interested. 

Diligaff, that's why I say that when you consider some of the people that claim they'd be there, they have a lot of nerve calling it a heaven.

When I was a kid, I always thought of it as a place where everyone floated around on clouds. 

==========================================

And no pets. How could it be heaven if you didn't have pets?

There's no way anyone can explain or imagine either heaven or hell.

A Glorified body and mind is the only way you'll understand a place

without time. A place of perfect peace and love will far exceed what

we believe we have here on earth in these wrecks of a body.

Forum gods and five dollar gas will die a well deserved death.

Like I said, I can imagine what the ancients that wrote the bible thought would be a heaven. 

There is an amazing "new" book on the market which does give us a lot of knowledge about heaven and hell.  Vic, you might want to visit a Christian bookstore and see if you can find a copy.  It is called "The Bible" and it has a world, no, a universe, of knowledge in it.  It even speaks quite a bit about heaven.

Of course, it does not mention purgatory.   But, there is good reason it omits that wee bit of info.

Please, my Friend, see if you can find one of these marvelous books.  It can make an unbelievable difference in your life.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Not a problem.  Actually, spiritual knowledge is much like a healthy diet.  It can save your life; but, one has to want to be saved first.  An overweight person can read all the diet books and articles -- but, if he/she will not give the diet a try, live the diet -- he/she is still on the road to an early death.

In the same way, one who flat refuses to infuse any spiritual food -- is on the road to eternal spiritual death.

All we Christian believers can do is share the knowledge.  We cannot force you to ingest, eat, the spiritual food we share.   Like the homeless person, we can offer him/her food -- but, we cannot force the food into his/her mouth.  Nor would we want to do that.  We are told by our Lord to offer His Word; but, if refused, shake the dust from our sandals and move on to the next person.

The food is there.  It is up to you whether you will eat or not.   But, what we Christian believers offer can make an eternal difference in your life.

Not that I want you to stay away; but, if you do, in your present atheist mindset, there will much less dissension in that discussion.  Yet, even with that thought -- I still invite you to drop by.  Don't worry, you don't have to tell anyone you actually read Bill Gray's writing.  And, I promise I will not tell.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

I imagine Heaven as a place of beauty and peace, where I spend my days with my loved ones, including my pets.  

Some say that pets will not be in heaven.  And, in a way, that makes sense since they have no spirit as do believers.  Humans were created at triune beings (in His image):  body, soul, spirit.  When Adam disobeyed God, man lost his "spirit" and his body began the process of deterioration toward physical death.   The soul remains intact since that is our inner being.

When a person becomes a Christian believer, our "spirit" is once again revived in full communion with God.  Once again, we are a triune being who will one day reside in heaven.

But, the other side of that belief is that, after the Millennial Reign of Christ on earth -- God will create a New Heaven and a New Earth, also a New Jerusalem (Revelation 21).   This is where all believers will reside for eternity, in the presence of God.

Now, it would seem logical that if God is going to create a New Earth, much better than the Garden of Eden -- why would He not put animals there also?

In Isaiah 65:17-25 we read of the coming eternity, "(17) 'For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind. . .  (25) The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent's food.  They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain,' says the LORD."

And, in Revelation 19:14, we are told the Jesus Christ will return, His Second Coming, with all His armies which are in heaven (Old Testament saints, New Testament church, Tribulation martyrs) riding on WHITE HORSES.   Of course, this could be symbolic.  Or, maybe it isn't.  I would love to be riding on a big white horse as I follow my Lord back to earth -- after the Believer's Judgment, the Wedding Feast of the Lamb in heaven, and the seven year Tribulation.

So, can I say that there will, or will not, be animals in eternal heaven?  No.  But, these Scripture passages sure gives one food for thought.

When I was a young boy, I watched a beautiful palomino colt born at my grandfather's farm outside of Tuscumbia.  And, when the colt had grown into a glorious palomino mare -- I was able to ride her when I went to the farm.  This memory will always stay with me.  Who knows, I may be riding a palomino in heaven one day.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

What exactly is purgatory vic?

==========================

Purgatory (Latin, "purgare", to make clean, to purify)

If a person dies with sins still on his soul, Purgatory will be the stop over

until the stain of sin is removed. this is necessary because no sin is allowed

in Heaven.

Matt 5: 26

Christ is condemning sin and speaks of liberation only after expiation.

"Amen, I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny."

Now we know that no last penny needs to be paid and from Hell

here is no liberation at all; hence the reference must apply to a third place.

 Jesus declares matt 12:32: "And whosoever shall speak a word against the son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come."These words prove that in the next life "some sins will be forgiven and purged away by a certain purifying fire." This also argues "that some sinners are not forgiven either in this world or in the next would not be truly said unless there were other sinners who, though not forgiven in this world, are forgiven in the world to come.

St. Paul in 1Cor 3: 11-15

"For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay stubble: Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."

Rev 21:27

 " but nothing unclean will enter it, nor anyone who does abominable

things or tells lies." -- The place that is to be entered is heaven .

1 Cor 3: 13-15....................Suffer lose, but saved as through fire.

2 Sam 12: 13-14.................David, though forgiven, still had to atone for his sin

1 Cor 15: 29-30..................Paul talks about people baptizing for the dead.

1 Cor 10: 11-12.................whoever thinks he is secure should take care not to fall.

1 Pet 3: 17-18................... proof of a third place, or middle state of souls: for these

spirits in prison, to whom Christ went to preach, after his death, were not in heaven;

nor yet in the hell of the ****ed: because heaven  is no prison: and Christ did not go

to preach to the ****ed.

Hi Vic,

Given what you have written, will you go to heaven or to purgatory?  If purgatory, how long will you have to stay there?

The last Pope who died, is he is purgatory?   A Cardinal was quoted in New York saying that the Pope does not even know if he is saved.  How can that be?  And, if the Pope is in purgatory, does this mean that ALL Roman Catholics MUST go to purgatory and not to heaven?  Are they all still there -- or have some been promoted.

What did the apostle Paul mean when he wrote, in 2 Corinthians 5:7-8. "For we walk by faith, not by sight -- we are of good courage, I say, andprefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

How is it that the apostle Paul tells us we can leave this body and be at home with the Lord -- yet, you say we cannot, that first everyone MUST go to purgatory?  And, since Paul said this -- why is the Pope in purgatory?

Vic, can you see our confusion?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come." - Revelation 4:8 (NIV)
To a non-believer this probably sounds like the most mundane thing ever...But if you will ...think of a person that you admire most in the world; whether it be Obama or... Justin Beiber...or Elvis...or Michael Jackson...you get the picture..Imagine that not only is this person awesome but even in His awesomeness he took you to be His close friend..and not only that but you had been the kid in elementary school who stunk because you had no indoor plumbing...and he put His arm around you when everyone else held their breath..OR that you had a disease that made you hideous and he somehow made you into Miss Universe...Or...Imagine that  you were being held hostage  with a gun pointed at your head and you knew it was the end...but He came in and said" I will trade places with the hostage" and you went free..Wouldn't you spend the rest of time praising Him for what He did for you?  Now imagine that you have all the time you want to be in the presence of that person...That is heaven.

Hi Savin,

Amen to that!  He is all that and much more.  Like you said, how could anyone not want to spend eternity in His presence?   No matter how dirty we are, no matter how gross we come to be, no matter what we have done -- once we become a child of God, He washes us clean and covers us with His righteousness. 

Reading your thoughts, I was reminded of the homeless man who seemed to be high on drugs and full of anger as he stalked me late one evening.  Yet, when I stopped, put my hand on his shoulder, and ask if I could pray for him -- he became meek as a lamb.  And, after I prayed for him, we hugged. 

Later, it dawned on me that this homeless man had no odor, not him or his clothing.  Yet, he was obviously homeless, living on the streets.  Did Jesus Christ clean him at that moment?  I will never know -- at least, not in this mortal life.  But, one day, I hope to meet that homeless man in heaven.  Then, I will ask Jesus what happened that night.

Savin, thank you for sharing your thoughts on heaven.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

I also believe we will have eternity to hear everyone's story of what Jesus has done for them. We will have all the time we need to connect all the dots ...so to speak ..of how Jesus used this situation or that person to bring about the various things that comprise our personal history and how we relate to each other as Christians...How he saved us just in time..before we committed suicide, adultery, or whatever the case...I know He saved me just in time...I was contemplating doing a very dumb thing when he finally reached me.     And have you ever been talking with someone and look at your watch and said, "Look at the time!"?...In heaven the scenario might play out..."Goodness! We have been here for 1000 years..I should really be going..I  have been wanting to talk with Paul about when he was shipwrecked..."

One more thing...when my son was 5 yrs old he got into the car one day after church and started crying and said he didn't want to go to heaven..Well, we got to the bottom of that really quick. Turned out that one of the other kids had asked if there would be toys in heaven and his sunday school teacher had said no. So I told him that everything he desired would be in heaven. I left out the part about how he would not care about toys ..(cut the poor kid a break teacher...he was 5 yrs old...toys were extremely important) As a Christian, our biggest desire is to know Jesus and fellowship with Him and His people.

So if you are desiring your next drink, pill,  **** movie, almighty dollar, or prostitute, ...you probably wouldn't be very happy in heaven...