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Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by b50m:

As I said, the government takes care of everything. I guess if you want your life to be full of no decisions to make about anything, it would be utopia.


Have you lived there or do you know people who live there well so that you know this to be true, or could it be a political opinion perhaps?

 

That really isn't how it is at all there...believe me, they make plenty of decisions and have challenges as anyone does.  They just happen to have a system of government that values human dignity and worth and one that works for the people.  No government is perfect, but the people aren't sitting around being waited on and told what to do...quite the contrary. 

So, tell me what I am wrong about. I do not wish for a socialist government doing the cradle to grave care, but maybe i am being short sighted. Since you do know people there, what is their day to day life like? How is work and school handled? How about the pay rates for various jobs, health care, retirement, nursing homes? If I look it up with google, I'll just get what the government puts out.

Originally Posted by b50m:
Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by b50m:

As I said, the government takes care of everything. I guess if you want your life to be full of no decisions to make about anything, it would be utopia.


Have you lived there or do you know people who live there well so that you know this to be true, or could it be a political opinion perhaps?

 

That really isn't how it is at all there...believe me, they make plenty of decisions and have challenges as anyone does.  They just happen to have a system of government that values human dignity and worth and one that works for the people.  No government is perfect, but the people aren't sitting around being waited on and told what to do...quite the contrary. 

So, tell me what I am wrong about. I do not wish for a socialist government doing the cradle to grave care, but maybe i am being short sighted. Since you do know people there, what is their day to day life like? How is work and school handled? How about the pay rates for various jobs, health care, retirement, nursing homes? If I look it up with google, I'll just get what the government puts out.


Well, we all just have different views...it isn't as if their governments hang around handing people things, so it isn't any more government in lives than we would have, and I think less in some ways.  Sorry if this is long, but you wanted details

 

I know four families in that area of the world.  One is a single young woman in her 20s who has a boyfriend who annoys her, but she loves him too.  She is traveling throughout the whole area doing...I can't remember what she calls it...where she earns board at different farms or towns by caring for the livestock or the dog sledge/sled dogs.  She plans to settle down in the country she finds she enjoys the most and hopefully have a child or two in a year or so if you boyfriend decides he wants to get married.  It sounds amazing how she is learning so many ways of living and working hard with the animals.  She finished their equivalent of a Masters degree a couple of years ago and wants to learn all she can before having kids.  She arranges to work at a farm or dog owner's house for a few months or some period of time, and in return for board she does all the animal care and farm work that they need.  Her boyfriend joins her when possible, and although they miss each other when they get separate jobs they enjoy when they come together.  She is very environmentally conscious and knows a huge amount about nutrition and of course, animal care and her educational field.  I am trying to think what her degree was in....hmm...maybe anthropology...something like that.  She wants to be a holistic nutritionist when she settles down along with her chosen profession.  If she needs health care she basically just goes to get it and she loves where she lives, can't believe we in the US can't get health care when we need it and that from her point of view it seems we are wiling to just let people suffer if they need help.  She loves her area of the world and is an energetic and intelligent woman who works really hard.  It isn't perfect, but it is a nice life in a beautiful part of the world.

 

The second is a single woman with a pre-teen boy who has anxiety and learning disabilities, and after a few years of trying to work within the educational system with him she started homeschooling him last year.  He gets to see the psychologist and occupational therapist and although the school system wasn't thrilled with her homeschooling him (she had to show that she was able and willing to make sure he got the resources he needed and wasn't just going to hang out at home since he has anxiety) they have provided materials and are working with her to see that he gets what he needs.  She lives near the boy's father in a small apartment and works at hmm...I'm thinking it was an office-type job helping people fill out forms or something like that.  The boy's father took them in recently when the apartment had to have mold removed, and then they moved back to a much nicer placer since it was renovated by the owner.  She has financial issues, but the father helps where he can and she works hard at her job and home with the child (the father watches him when she is working).  She was laid off a few months ago from a similar job, but found this one within a month.  When her child needs medical care he gets it, and although she has the same frustrations we all do raising her child, she doesn't understand either why the US doesn't seem to care if its citizens "go rot in a gutter" if they can't afford health care and why basic education beyond the high school level isn't valued enough to make sure it is available.  So although she doesn't feel her country's government is perfect she loves the "freedoms we have" that those in the US don't seem to.  She also works hard and is getting some additional education so she can advance in her job.  It's provided by her company, so that helps a lot.

 

I'll do the next two  in a separate post.

The third family is a divorced woman in her late 30s or earlier 40s who was married to an emotionally abusive man.  She has one son and she is one of the most amazing people I have ever spoken with/gotten to know.  She is a gentle soul and is a Shamanic Reiki and Qigong practitioner who has a Masters in Holistic Medicine I believe is the degree.  She is an amazing healer and I wish I lived near her...lol. She worked at an office job she didn't like much for many years and saved all she could, and she bought a beautiful small building in this breathtaking mountainside area where she has made a healing practice and is really happy now.  The doctors there are required to take classes in alternative medicine along with their standards subjects so they can treat the whole person, and along with her classes she did some amazing things to be healthy and be able to treat others...she also loves where she lives and is amazed so many Americans don't have health care and can't get help if they need it.  Her child attends public school and is really doing well last I heard, and she was trying to decide if she wanted to stay with a man she has dated for a few years.

 

She lived in the US for a few years with the American ex and liked it here too, but she never was very excited about how our government works.  She felt it intrudes in places theirs wouldn't ever consider such as religion, sex, and health, but it leaves us in the cold with things that really are important for quality of life.  She is just amazing!  

 

The fourth is a family with mother, father, and two kids, and they live pretty much as we do.  Father teaches at a university, mother works in some type of retail shop, and the kids are in public school.  They have similar lives to what someone here would except that when they need health care they can get it even if they can't afford it completely, they do attend a church that is a pretty liberal one from what I understand, and they are very happy with their lives.  When they hit a rough patch after the last child was born her mother moved in for awhile since she and the baby were sick, but no one went bankrupt paying for medical care and they are both fine now.  They have a small home in a town that they saved for and they also are very glad they live where they do.  

 

I thought it was interesting since you asked about their lives how they were affected by the shootings in Norway.  Of course they were saddened and horrified, but they couldn't understand why some of their US friends were so determined the shooter should be killed or put "beneath the jail".  They were describing their prison system and how the inmates are treated with dignity and receive mental health care if they are unbalanced, have decent but not fancy living conditions, and that their concept is to remove the offender from society, find out why s/he committed the crimes, educate them to be able to make it on the outside, do all they can to remedy the problems the person has, and return the person to be productive members of society.  

 

They were of course very upset and grieving over the losses, but none of them said anything we most likely would and they just wanted the public safe, the families comforted, the victims remembered, and the perpetrator put where he could get what he needed to keep the public safe and him to heal if he was sick, and they focused their energy on the victims and not vengeance.  When the Americans argued that he was evil and why weren't they angry at him to make sure he suffered, they showed us how their system works and how they have fewer repeat offenders per capita than we do.  As they said, "Yours usually end up back inside and more people hurt.  We treat them as human beings.  Our system works and it doesn't seem the anger-punishment system works".  They were honestly confused at our reaction.  It was really interesting to me and really educational to learn about it.  

 

So nope, the system isn't perfect, but none of these people thought we have it better here and none of them have things handed to them.   

Originally Posted by frog:
Originally Posted by lexum:

Dark, we are still waiting on an explanation of why you posted bad information. Does the atheist license allow you to lie to mankind.  Never mind it doesn’t count if the atheist lies.


Why do you have to assume she is lying and make nasty comments about every other person in her group...or anyone's, for that matter?  Nice.

===============================

According to the CIA source quoted by DA, Sweden and Denmark are not atheist but %87 & %95 respectively. Look at the rest of the links she provided to you as truth . She is a liar. I fail to see the point in lying about a subject to prove a point. Lying serves no purpose but to confuse the gullible.

I've visited most of the Scandinavian countries an have friends there. They are all beautiful in the summer, but can be really cold in the winter, which is about the only reason I wouldn't move there. A friend is married to a Norwegian, and when she became pregnant the government deposited a rather large sum in their bank account to help them through the pregnancy, and another even larger sum when their son was born. Another friend in Sweden has worked with Swedish National Radio during the 30 or so years I've known him, and he visits this area from time to time because of the music history here. I know several others in those areas, but not as well. To those I know, religion is a old label that they pull out for special occasions, not something that plays a big role in their lives. My friends in Norway had a church event for their newborn son, and they do get married in churches occasionally, but it is more a traditional thing than a religious experience.
I also spent some time in Vietnam this year, and they were without a doubt the happiest people I've ever seen, despite the fact their annual average income is about $200.00.
Originally Posted by SeniorCoffee:
I've visited most of the Scandinavian countries an have friends there. They are all beautiful in the summer, but can be really cold in the winter, which is about the only reason I wouldn't move there. A friend is married to a Norwegian, and when she became pregnant the government deposited a rather large sum in their bank account to help them through the pregnancy, and another even larger sum when their son was born. Another friend in Sweden has worked with Swedish National Radio during the 30 or so years I've known him, and he visits this area from time to time because of the music history here. I know several others in those areas, but not as well. To those I know, religion is a old label that they pull out for special occasions, not something that plays a big role in their lives. My friends in Norway had a church event for their newborn son, and they do get married in churches occasionally, but it is more a traditional thing than a religious experience.
I also spent some time in Vietnam this year, and they were without a doubt the happiest people I've ever seen, despite the fact their annual average income is about $200.00.

Very interesting, Senior.  Yes, I would agree that it is often a traditional thing as you said.  At least that's what even the church members family said....they listed themselves as members, but they didn't consider themselves devout and consistent members of the religion.  

Guess who would come to the rescue of these “hap hap hapity “ countries if some rogue nation decided to invade one of them. Yep you guessed it, another one of the hap hap hapity countries over there .

NO???? not one of them ??? Uhhh you mean us here in the US would have to sacrifice our children and dollars to keep a smile on their hap hap hapity faces???? No wonder they are so hap hap happity.

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