Soldiers punished for not attending Christian Concert...

Smith, 21, was stationed in Virginia for nearly seven months for helicopter electrician training when the Christian rock group BarlowGirl played as part of the "Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concerts."

I am surprised that there is a Spiritual Fitness agenda in the military. It was wrong to try to force the men to attend, as for the cleaning up, that's seems to be a he said, he said.

I read this story the other day. This has been a recurrent issue for the last few years.

The commanding officer who specified the punishment is now commanding something like a laundry in Gopher, WY.

The Secretary of the Air Force had to get personally involved a couple years back, it got so bad at the Academy.

NSNS

Sounds like they had the option of attending the concert, or remaining in the barracks. I don't see the problem. Typical in this day, people whining over nothing that their rights were violated and constantly wanting undeserved special treatment.

Ben,

What a fine Inquisitor you would have made.

quote:

Originally posted by Ben Weaver:
Sounds like they had the option of attending the concert, or remaining in the barracks. I don't see the problem. Typical in this day, people whining over nothing that their rights were violated and constantly wanting undeserved special treatment.

Hi Ben,

So true. I served in the Air Force and was never forced to attend any religious services. Although, I may have been better off if I had been -- might have set me on the path to salvation many years earlier.

But, I suspect what we have are a handful of atheist, secularist, and those too afraid of losing their worldly gods if the name of the Jesus Christ is mentioned within their range of hearing. So, they whine and cry. If they don't want to hear the name of God -- walk away.

Now, I will say this. If the commanding officer did attempt to force anyone to attend a Christian concert -- or any concert -- that would have been wrong. But, how do we know that this was not just a bunch of losers who were already under disciplinary action -- and possibly given an opportunity to stay in the barracks and do disciplinary work -- or go to the concert and get out from under the discipline?

In the early 1960s, I worked with a young man who was street racing and hit the car of an elderly couple killing them both. The judge gave the young man two options: go to jail -- or go into the Army. Personally, I think the judge was too lenient. But, the young man chose to go into the Army. If he had not gone into the Army -- he would have had to face the disciplinary action of going to jail.

Now, we can wonder if that is what happened in this case -- that the men did not want to attend the concert. Did they reject the offer of the concert -- and then whine because they had to do their disciplinary work? Not saying this is so -- but, from my own personal experience in the military -- it sounds logical to me.

But, on the other hand -- maybe they did have a commanding officer who was a Christian nutcase. It would not be the first time. After all, we Christians are only "forgiven sinners" -- and, believe it or not -- we are not perfect. Some of us do make mistakes. If that was the case in this instance; he was wrong. But, my gut tells me that this is more whining than punishment.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

If you would just read the article your questions would be answered, and your post unnecessary.

I can't decide whether it is your usual failure at READING COMPREHENSION 101, or you choose ignorance so you can post a rant. Read the article, and you won't need your highly inaccurate gut to tell you anything.

Bill Gray, above, barfs up the following utterly speculative, far-fetched, and irrational drivel on this matter, as follows:

"But, how do we know that this was not just a bunch of losers who were already under disciplinary action -- and possibly given an opportunity to stay in the barracks and do disciplinary work -- or go to the concert and get out from under the discipline?"

Well, Bill, for one thing, those who elected not to attend the religiously-themed concert numbered "80 to 100" out of a total of 200 occupants of the barracks in question. Come ON, Bill, do you really want to assert even the possibility that 40 to 50 percent of these 200 troops are "a bunch of losers?" The silliness of that kind of assertion exemplifies the kind of stretching and torquing of facts that you routinely pull off--or try to--on this forum, Bill, and you deserve to be called out and stigmatized for such overt, self-serving manipulating of information.

As Not Shallow pointed out, above, this kind of problem in the military is not unique by any means. The Air Force Academy became, for a while, a forum for proselytization by an over-eager officialdom intent on advancing their particular species of fundamentalist Christianity. They were justly slapped down for this egregious violation of the First Amendment. The Academy crowd involved in this scandalous mess was probably influenced by the concentration of hard-core evangelical zealots clustered around Colorado Springs, including the self-righteous hypocrite, James Dobson, but that in no way excuses their attempts to "Christianize" the Air Force Academy.

I say "right on" to the watchdog groups who ferret out and oppose these proselytizing maneuvers by over-reaching zealots in our military establishment.

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:
I say "right on" to the watchdog groups who ferret out and oppose these proselytizing maneuvers by over-reaching zealots in our military establishment.

Hi Beter,

Have you bowed toward Mecca and prayed to Allah five times today?

Oh, by the way, how are you coming in your study of English Grammar 101?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill, why do you seem to pick on BeternU?
Is it that on a topic that has not, as of yet, been adulterated. He can and does bests you in the truth.
Makes one wonder? hum

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:
I say "right on" to the watchdog groups who ferret out and oppose these proselytizing maneuvers by over-reaching zealots in our military establishment.

Hi Beter,

Have you bowed toward Mecca and prayed to Allah five times today?

Oh, by the way, how are you coming in your study of English Grammar 101?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

The first of your two asinine comments is too ridiculous to merit any kind of response other than what I have just typed.

The second is almost as silly. I repeat below my response to your puny efforts at grammar sharping. You have not answered this, yet you continue, childishly, to snipe at me for some grammatical error of which you accuse me.

"No, Bill. YOU are the one who claimed my usage was wrong. It is not up to me to defend it; it is up to you to prove your assertion. That is the way it works, Bill. Now how about serving up that learned paper you claim to have written on the subject? I will be happy to acknowledge error if you will show me where the error lies and show me from a qualified source. Unlike certain others on this forum, I am willing to acknowledge that I am wrong when I am shown to be wrong. Really, I am."

At the very least, Bill, you could serve up a copy of the paper you allege to have written on the grammar issue under discussion. But until you come up with more than your personal opinion on the matter, you have proven nothing--as usual.

I remain ready to recant and repent of any grammatical error that you can PROVE I have committed. Really.

Bet,

How dare you confront the theocratic tyrants who would dash the first amendment on the rocks?

Don't you know this nation was founded by Jesus Christ?

Freedom is overrated. Jesus is what we need! Just like in the Dark Ages, we'll ignore science, liberty, and reason.

Over our dead bodies. And let's hope that's enough.

NSNS

And the idiocy still runs rampant...........

quote:

Originally posted by bustamove63:
And the idiocy still runs rampant...........

Make it stop!

Quit the Forum!


nsns

i wish we could believe TheBill when he said...

quote:

Now, I will say this. If the commanding officer did attempt to force anyone to attend a Christian concert -- or any concert -- that would have been wrong.

... but i can't. Bill strikes me as a Jesus version of Al Queda.

after all he's already mentioned desire to deny different religions freedom to worship in the country.
bill just wants the christian version of sharia law in this country, then he'll be happy.

then again. maybe bill really did mean it.. maybe the concert was sponsored by the wrong demonination.. maybe the barlow girls are catholic?
yeah.. bill would totally think that was wrong.

I've read other articles/comments on this at various websites and found many who state that during basic training they were given the option of attending Sunday services or "maintenance" at the barracks which included the same "lock down" mode not allowing for personal time with electronics etc..

I think there are alot of angles to consider..My understanding is this was most likely connected to the CSF ( Comprehensive Soldier Fitness ) a program the Army started in 2008.

http://www.army.mil/csf/resources.html

These are the general idea of comments/questions made on various sites across the web on this topic.

According to reports this concert was considered what is normally "after hours" however soldiers were not allowed to be dismissed for the day.If this spirtual series is indeed optional but with "an alternative to the concert enforced"..Why not give them advance notice of what they would have to do should they choose not to attend rather than giving them the directive to march to the theatre,only to be told the alternative after they have decided not to attend.

In general why are soldiers sent to lockdown (sent to barracks,not allowed electronics..etc) rather than released to their personal time when not attending a religious event?


If this spirtual series is as been reported supposed to be representive of "a wide variety of faiths" why have only "evangelical" christian acts been booked in its approx 2 yrs of operation?

If this is a spirtual option by the military why is it being handled by commanders rather than by the Army chaplains?

I've heard some say..they were fine with what happened as long the same option to attend or being sent to lockdown is applied if they continue the series and represent other denominations too..ie catholic, mormon..etc
and other faiths such as Islam, Hinduism, Judaism..

There was also some questions as to the cost.."anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and even many of the opening acts being in the $10,000 range"

Hopefully the Army will address these concerns. Personally i'm not opposed to the concert only concerned that its geared toward one religion and that the only option other than attending is one that does indeed seem like a punishment.

I'm with you, willow.

Military personnel are all volunteers. They deserve freedom from unwanted religion as Americans. Perhaps especially so, for being volunteers.

My hat's off to all of them.

nsns