Some of it makes sense to me

Hi O,

Do you really believe that Mormons and JWs teach the same Jesus Christ as found in the Bible, John 1:1?   No, my Friend, they do not.  Both teach a Jesus who is a created being, not the preexisting deity, God the Son.

Mormons teach that Jesus is a created being born of an actual sexual relationship between God and his goddess wife.   JWs teach that Jesus was first Michael the archangel.   Both deny the Trinity.

This excerpt, originally from the CARM (Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry) web site, gives a clear picture of the Mormon Jesus:

The President of the Mormon Church Says They Believe In a Different Jesus

http://www.bibleprophecyupdate...n-a-different-jesus/

“In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ.’ ‘No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.’” (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).

Christians have long maintained that Mormonism teaches a Jesus that is different from what the Bible reveals. Of course, the Mormons say that they believe in the same Jesus that originally walked on the earth and is revealed in the Bible. Though they may make this claim, it is up to them to prove it. Especially in light of what Mormonism says about God and Jesus.

In Mormonism, Jesus is a creation, the product of relations between god and his goddess wife who used to be people from another world (McConkie, Bruce, Mormon Doctrine, p. 192, 321, 516, 589). Jesus is the literal spirit brother of the devil and of you and I (McConkie, p. 192, 589). Also, in Mormon theology, God has a body of flesh and bones (Doctrine & Covenants 130:22) as does his wife and together they produce spirit offspring in heaven who inhabit human bodies on earth.

Very few, if any, of the ‘different’ Mormon doctrines are found in their Standard Works: the Bible, The Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. Rather, they are taught by Mormons of high standing: prophets, apostles, members of the 70 Quorum. McConkie, for example, was a member of the 70′s Quorum, a very high ranking Mormon and wrote the book, Mormon Doctrine, from which much of the documentation for this is taken.

President Hinkley, the prophet and revelator of the Mormon church, has publicly declared that the Jesus of Mormonism and traditional Christianity are not the same. Let’s take a look at the difference between the Mormon Jesus and the one of Traditional Christianity:

The doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) are very interesting. Most of the ‘odd’ ones are not initially taught to potential converts. But they should be. Instead, “they are revealed later as one matures and gains the ability to accept them.” The LDS Church tries to make its official doctrines appear Christian but what underlies those Christian sounding terms is far from Christian in meaning.

Following are the teachings of its officials throughout the years. Please note that these teachings are documented from Mormon writers, not anti-Mormon writers.

Finally, many Mormons respond that most of the citations below are not from official Mormon writings, as if that disproves the doctrines they teach. If they are not official, fine. But, if not, then why have the Mormon apostles and high officials taught them, written them, and why are their books sold in Mormon bookstores? The truth is, the following is what Mormons are taught.

Visit the web site to read more detail on Mormon doctrine

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O No, my Friend, please do not be lulled into believing that these false Christs are the Jesus Christ of the Bible.  They are not.  And, the churches which teach these false Christs are cult churches.

Any church which does not teach the preexisting deity of Jesus Christ is a cult church.  Any church which does not teach the Trinity is a cult church.  The Mormon church and the Jehovah's Witnesses church -- are cult churches.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Hi Gingee and Chick,

Gingee, that is a great observation.  Yes, non-believers do indeed cherry pick Scripture (which most often they do not understand) in vain attempts to discredit believers, God, Jesus Christ, or the Bible.

Chick, that is a great COP OUT.   Since you cannot answer the question -- you merely declare, "I have already answered that question.  I won't do it again!"  Well, duh!  I have never seen a sufficient answer from you yet on Gingee question:  "Why do you condemn others as being judgmental -- when, in the same breath -- you are being very judgmental?" 

We must only assume that for you, not being a believer, it is okay to demean others.  But, believers who share the Gospel with you -- are being judgmental.  Okay, whatever you say.

Gingee, hang in there.  As we know, the non-believer will always be trying to crucify us for out belief in Jesus Christ.   He told us this would happen -- and our non-believing Friends on the Religion Forum are great examples of His words.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill, I guess you'll just have to see it your way, and I'll see it mine. The JW's I know believe that God sent Jesus to die for our sins. There is only ONE Jesus. As I said before, they VIEW him differently, but they don't think there were two - ours and theirs. Just like the George Washington analogy - they may believe he had wooden teeth while we know better, but it's still the same George Washington.

And I know that the Mormons don't believe there are two Jesus' either. They believe in the one and only Jesus, and if they think He came about in a different way than we do, that doesn't make Him a DIFFERENT JESUS. They just see Him differently. But in the IMPORTANT things, they believe the same as we do - that God sent Him to die for our sins.

I won't point fingers at anyone who believes Jesus is the savior.

Hi O No,

My Friend, if you prefer to wear blinders and not see the false teachers and false teachings, I cannot stop you.  But, if you will honestly study what these churches teach about their Jesus -- you WILL find that their Jesus is NOT the Jesus Christ of the Bible.   Their leaders teach that he is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible -- yet, you do not believe the leaders of the Mormon and JW church?

O, which is more important to you -- being Friends with those who deny our Jesus Christ -- or being a Friend of Jesus Christ?   You cannot befriend both the cult Jesus and the Biblical Jesus Christ.  You do have to choose whom you will worship.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill I believe in the Holy Bible as God’s Word.

I believe in God the Eternal Father.

I believe in His Son Jesus Christ.

I also believe in the Holy Ghost.

I believe there is Good and evil in this World.

I believe that the Bible tells us not to Judge, that is for Him at the Judgment Seat.

I believe the Bible tells us that Jesus Himself said, “ He that is without sin to cast the first stone.”

I just want to ask you, why are you throwing stones?

Skippy

O, which is more important to you -- being Friends with those who deny our Jesus Christ -- or being a Friend of Jesus Christ? You cannot befriend both the cult Jesus and the Biblical Jesus Christ. You do have to choose whom you will worship.

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Funny darn thing for you to post when YOU yourself have posted that you have a mormon friend. Didn't you even claim you have a muslim friend? You're still baking those "lie pies".

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Don't pay any attention to the old fool, Skippy. He's just a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to tear down others. His Master, Satan, tells him to cast the first stone.

That is good.  Now, just for clarification -- do you believe what is taught in John 1 -- that Jesus Christ is the preexisting deity -- or do you believe He is a created being, a spirit child conceived by God and His goddess wife?

Do you believe that God is preexisting, i.e., that He has always existed -- or do you believe that the God of the Bible -- was first an exalted man?

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is also God, the third Person of the Trinity, i.e., the Triune God:  Father, Son, Holy Spirit?

If you can honestly, sincerely answer YES to all three questions -- then, I must say that you do not believe and follow Mormon doctrine.  If you can honestly, sincerely answer YES to all three questions -- then, you are on your way to becoming a Christian believer.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Who, other than you, mentioned your trying to stop O No from doing anything? You are not her judge. Where did she say she was friends with a cult Jesus & that she worships one?????

She has a Christian heart that see's the person, not the way they worship.

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Yeah, Gingee, you hang in there!! Keep encouraging the wolf & he will bring you down with him.

Bill, take your Duh! & stuff it where the sun don't shine! I am neither stupid nor slow witted.

Oh, BTW, Jesus also warned people of the wolf in sheep's clothing & you are a great example of His words.

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Joe is dead, but Mormon cultists believe that he lives elsewhere, where he presumably has thumb-sup/thumbs-down power over the eternal destinies of others.  Yet another figment of Mormon mythology.

Semi,

Jesus was the man who told people to abandon thrift, families, and all thought for the morrow, as the End of the Earth was at hand.

Jesus told people that Hell, his invention, awaited those who did not accept his unwarranted preachments.

Jesus was the kind soul who cursed and killed a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season.  Jesus was the one who told his apostles to ignore the Gentiles who were, apparently, beneath consideration.

The kind words of Jesus had been spoken for thousands of years before him.

The redemption of which he spoke is one for an imaginary crime perpetuated by other mythological people.  Certainly you and I are not responsible for their actions, even metaphorically.

The emerging picture of Jesus is that of a fictional character in any case.  The Gospels were written after the conversion of Paul.  Greek writers wrote the Gospels to flesh out the character of the mythological Jesus who was the ****tive object of increasingly popular churches of the time, as popular and profitable stories.  Read Paul when you get a chance.  He knew nothing of the life of Jesus, only his death.  The entire concept of Jesus dying for the redemption of Original Sin is Pauline in origin, and obviously Paul never met the man.

The story is entirely too inconsistent and unsupported to be believed after any fashion.  Any thinking person must conclude that Jesus is, at best, a highly exaggerated story of an obscure, eccentric Jewish rabbi.

DF

The Mormons that I know live a more Christian life than Bill could ever dream of.

Bill you say---

Hi Gingee and Chick,

Gingee, that is a great observation. Yes, non-believers do indeed cherry pick Scripture (which most often they do not understand) in vain attempts to discredit believers, God, Jesus Christ, or the Bible.

Chick, that is a great COP OUT. Since you cannot answer the question -- you merely declare, "I have already answered that question. I won't do it again!" Well, duh!

We must only assume that for you, not being a believer, it is okay to demean others. But, believers who share the Gospel with you -- are being judgmental. Okay, whatever you say.

Bill as with me you ask… It’s answered… Then your Alzheimer’s kicks in and you forget.

So why should she bother answering over and over. You ask me do I believe in the Jesus of John 1. As I have answered over and over, YES! My question two you is DO YOU?

   In John 1:14 it tells us, “14 And the Word was made

flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the onlybegotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

   In John 1: it tells us, “18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

Do not both these Scriptures refer to the Son of God?  You ask me--Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is also God, the third Person of the Trinity, i.e., the Triune God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit?

Do you believe that the Holy Spirit is also God, the third Person of the Trinity, i.e., the Triune God: Father, Son, Holy Spirit?

You believe, as you have told me in previous posts, that The Father, Son(Jesus Christ) and the Holy Ghost are three different manifestation of the same being. I have asked you before where indeed dose the Bible, which you practically worship, mention this Trinity.

You have responded it does not specifically mention it. If the Bible is everything the Lord has to say and teach, what’s with the Trinity. It states throughout the New Testament that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Jesus prays to his Father through out the book. He cries to His Father Twice for relief, the Garden of Gethsemane and the Cross. In the Garden He prays in Luke 23, “   34 ¶Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.”

If Christ was the Father, why would he ask Himself that He would fogive His crucifiers?

Why indeed would God the Creator of the Universe split himself into three different beings and call one Son and the other the Holy Ghost? Why would he the Creator of the Universe pray to Himself?  Why would he Beget Himself?

   be·get [bi gét](past be·got [bi gót], past participle be·got·ten [bi gótt'n] or be·got, present participle be·get·ting, 3rd person present singular be·gets)

　Enough of your baseless Trinity Theory.

Bill you also mention to Gingee, your alter-ego(if you had one more you could be a Trinity) Cherry Pick. Isn’t that exactly what you do? You completely skip over Begotten Son/ Father, Son and so on without a viable Scripture to back up your beliefs.

Bill then you tell yourself---

Gingee, hang in there. As we know, the non-believer will always be trying to crucify us for out belief in Jesus Christ. He told us this would happen -- and our non-believing Friends on the Religion Forum are great examples of His words.

Aren’t you being judgmental in calling everyone you disagree with non-believing, when in reality, you don’t know?

And for your memory’s sake I will put my beliefs in a nutshell---

I Believe that God Created the Universe. Everything including us. (What he created it with and where did he come from, NOBODY KNOWS).

I Believe that God so Loved the World that he gave His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON (JESUS CHRIST) to die for our sins and so we ALL of US could have ETERNAL LIFE.

I Believe that His Son Jesus Christ so Loved ALL of US that he willingly died on the cross.

I Believe that all will be judged by the content of their heart and not on our Beliefs.

Example: Do I believe the Dali Lama will go to Heaven? I’m no judge, but personally I do.

I Believe that even you Bill Gray has a Good Heart. But you are totally misguided by your beliefs.

As far as Contendah, no comment.

Skippy

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Deep’ you are no authority on Paul and his connection to Christianity.

   Again I give you this link:

 http://realserver.princeton.ed...7fredriksenTV756K.rm

A lecture by Paula Fredrickson of Princeton University on Paul, Jesus and the origin of Christianity.

Skippy, you say: "I Believe that God Created the Universe. Everything including us. (What he created it with and where did he come from, NOBODY KNOWS).
I Believe that God so Loved the World that he gave His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON (JESUS CHRIST) to die for our sins and so we ALL of US could have ETERNAL LIFE."

Which of the myriads of "gods" is the "God" to which you refer? Mormons believe that male Mormons can progress to a status equal to the God of the Bible. Are there not, in Mormon "theology," many other gods and many other universes, where "progressed" human males can cohabit ceaselessly with harems of their wives and procreate zillions of chillens to populate the worlds that they rule?