Originally posted by gbrk:
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
Ok, now forgive my ignorance, but what in the world is a Rapture?
The word Rapture is never found in Scripture, as that word. The Rapture is used because the word Rapture is to be "Caught Up". The basis of this comes from the following scripture:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (CEV) 13 My friends, we want you to understand how it will be for those followers who have already died. Then you won't grieve over them and be like people who don't have any hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died and was raised to life. We also believe that when God brings Jesus back again, he will bring with him all who had faith in Jesus before they died. 15 Our Lord Jesus told us that when he comes, we won't go up to meet him ahead of his followers who have already died. 16 With a loud command and with the shout of the chief angel and a blast of God's trumpet, the Lord will return from heaven. Then those who had faith in Christ before they died will be raised to life. 17 Next, all of us who are still alive will be taken up into the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the sky. From that time on we will all be with the Lord forever. 18 Encourage each other with these words. also used at times are:
1 Corinthians 15:12-24 (CEV) 12 If we preach that Christ was raised from death, how can some of you say that the dead will not be raised to life? 13 If they won't be raised to life, Christ himself wasn't raised to life. 14 And if Christ wasn't raised to life, our message is worthless, and so is your faith. 15 If the dead won't be raised to life, we have told lies about God by saying that he raised Christ to life, when he really did not. 16 So if the dead won't be raised to life, Christ wasn't raised to life. 17 Unless Christ was raised to life, your faith is useless, and you are still living in your sins. 18 And those people who died after putting their faith in him are completely lost. 19 If our hope in Christ is good only for this life, we are worse off than anyone else. 20 But Christ has been raised to life! And he makes us certain that others will also be raised to life. 21 Just as we will die because of Adam, we will be raised to life because of Christ. 22 Adam brought death to all of us, and Christ will bring life to all of us. 23 But we must each wait our turn. Christ was the first to be raised to life, and his people will be raised to life when he returns. 24 Then after Christ has destroyed all powers and forces, the end will come, and he will give the kingdom to God the Father. There are also varying interpretations as to when this "Rapture" or catching up will occur. Some believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, most modern Protestant churches teach this and point to Revelation 4:1 as that time. I personally accept the "Pre-Wrath" interpretation as being the correct timing of "The Rapture" which means that the Church and those alive during that time will have to endure the first seals of Revelation 6 and that these are predictive of man's state and difficulties at the end times and then the Rapture or catching up of the saints occurs at Revelation 7:9.
Many protestants also even dispute that there is a "Rapture" and like many of Scripture's teachings there is vast disagreement among many different peoples but that's where the word Rapture comes from.
With Regard to Mary's state of Sinfulness I, like Joy, will respectfully, agree to disagree, in that I do believe that Christ was born of the Seed of the Holy Spirit into the womb of Mary a very special chosen vessel of God but I cannot accept that she was sinless but would be interested in the Scriptural backing of that statement. It is teachings such as the sinlessness of Mary that does present a barrier between protestant churches and the Catholic church and again a great deal of controversy comes in and is there due to the Catholic Church's acceptance that the Pope or the Church can create scripture or add to Scripture. Things such as the infallibility of the Pope.
There are vast and recognizable differences between protestant and Catholic churches but the problem, as I see it, is that many fail to respectfully disagree and do so while presenting their cases and arguments in a reasonable, loving way, rather both (churches) have over the years degraded into something totally unlike Christ teachings. This leads to conflicts like Northern Ireland where you literally have war between believing factions and history is replete with actions of the Catholic Church against people who choose to believe differently so both are guilty at various times of very Un-Christian activities. We at times spend far more time Judging each other than Judging ourselves and knowing exactly why we believe what we believe.
Catholic's go to Confession but if you look at many Protestant churches and examine the motives of why people attend Church as they do then it would not be a far stretch to say many go to Church because they feel it atones for their weekly sins and activities during the week and they feel better about themselves and their weekly attendance serves as that penitence for those shortcomings during the week. I'm not saying that is what I believe but one could easily make an application as such.
What I am saying is each person should be assured of what they believe and know why they believe as they do. They should be able to back their beliefs, their doctrine, by their own knowledge of Scripture and security in the Holy Spirit rather than relying upon the preacher or priest for their doctrines and their beliefs.
Salvation, and belief, are very personal things and relate to a relationship between God and the individual Christian. Jesus promised the Holy Spirit to Believers.
John 14:15-17 (NIV) 15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. Romans 8:9-17 (NIV) 9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you. 12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. 1 Corinthians 2:10-15 (CEV) 10 God's Spirit has shown you everything. His Spirit finds out everything, even what is deep in the mind of God. 11 You are the only one who knows what is in your own mind, and God's Spirit is the only one who knows what is in God's mind. 12 But God has given us his Spirit. That's why we don't think the same way that the people of this world think. That's also why we can recognize the blessings that God has given us. 13 Every word we speak was taught to us by God's Spirit, not by human wisdom. And this same Spirit helps us teach spiritual things to spiritual people. 14 That's why only someone who has God's Spirit can understand spiritual blessings. Anyone who doesn't have God's Spirit thinks these blessings are foolish. 15 People who are guided by the Spirit can make all kinds of judgments, but they cannot be judged by others. Each Believer, Christian, should know why they believe what they do, Each believer has God's Holy Spirit within that enables the believer to actually have access to God the Father through the Holy Spirit
(Romans 8:26-27 (ESV) 26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. ). People should know that God's Holy Spirit gives the believer the right to take their prayers direct to God. It doesn't say or rule out requesting a pastor, priest, or fellow believer as someone the believer may wish to go to in order to request prayer but it also doesn't mean you have to go through a third person in order to "talk to God".
Wow all this writing and text in this post for simply trying to answer what the Rapture is. Sorry for the deviation.