Stealing from the Baptist

This takes the cake. Does the Six Flags over Jesus in Muscle Shoals actually take credit cards? Don't these poor fools realize that most of that money goes for the preacher's fancy house on the lake? How sad!

Does the Six Flags over Jesus in Muscle Shoals actually take credit cards?


Which Baptist church are you referring to? There are several in Muscle Shoals.

quote:

Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
In Fort Payne, an usher was caught on VIDEO tape stealing from the collection plate! This is so hilarious that I can't even start! LOL I guess this church didn't accept Master Card, Visa or American Express as the "Six Flags over Jesus" does on Avalon Ave in MSC. Another funny thing was once the "pastor" thought the kitty was short, he SET UP surveilance. You know, only in the Bible belt! You couldn't make this stuff up. I am gonna email Jon Stewart! Should make for a good laugh. THE DOG

Yeah, Dog, I've heard a lot about that Church in Muscle Shoals. Me and my wife have a few doctor friends that use to go to that church as well as other friends who no longer attend that church. They've caught on to this "Goblett" feller who only gobbles Sunday morning and Sunday night. Doesn't visit the sick in the hospital either. It's amazing how one man has so much power over so many. Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that that church was sued because they fired a church secretary who got pregnant out of wedlock. I think she won a pretty good amount of money. I also hear, don't know how true this is, that you have to sign some kind of paper in regards to your ten percent that you are suppose to put in the pot every week, and if you get behind on your dues, they can repossess your goods. Any truth to that? I think going to church to worship God is good until people use God to benefit them in politics or get rich schemes. Using God in the wrong way is bad.

You must be kidding me.A crooked preacher? Can't be. Must be a deacon behind it.

quote:

Yeah, Dog, I've heard a lot about that Church in Muscle Shoals. Me and my wife have a few doctor friends that use to go to that church as well as other friends who no longer attend that church. They've caught on to this "Goblett" feller who only gobbles Sunday morning and Sunday night. Doesn't visit the sick in the hospital either. It's amazing how one man has so much power over so many. Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that that church was sued because they fired a church secretary who got pregnant out of wedlock. I think she won a pretty good amount of money. I also hear, don't know how true this is, that you have to sign some kind of paper in regards to your ten percent that you are suppose to put in the pot every week, and if you get behind on your dues, they can repossess your goods. Any truth to that? I think going to church to worship God is good until people use God to benefit them in politics or get rich schemes. Using God in the wrong way is bad.

I've heard the same thing from friends that once attended that church. I was also told you have to fill out a credit application (and have it approved) to become a member.
"Goblett" (that's funny) may call himself a preacher, but it's obvious he is NOT a Minister

Okay, while I've heard many a crazy rumor regarding this particular church, I find it very hard to believe that you have to "fill out a credit card application to become a member" and that they will reposses your "stuff" (that could mean so many different things) if you don't give the required 10%. How can they repossess that which they never possessed in the first place? Are ya'll sure you're not embellishing the truth a little? And don't tell me I can't handle the truth.

Are the people that attend that church that stupid? Anyone that is paying to pray and worship? What do they worship? Give me a break! Sounds to me like REAL snake worship!

quote:

Originally posted by M9Beretta:
Does the Six Flags over Jesus in Muscle Shoals actually take credit cards?


Which Baptist church are you referring to? There are several in Muscle Shoals.

we take the 5th on that one.

Surely they don't take credit cards over there...I find that hard to believe...but I have heard plenty of bad stuff about that place over the years...I chalked most of it up to embellishment.

This church is pro Bush I hear,and if you say anything bad about Bush you'll be asked to leave.

I admit to having (unintentionally) mis-worded my comment.I said credit card application when i should have said they fill out a form consenting to a credit check. To me that's still just as bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Occupant:
I admit to having (unintentionally) mis-worded my comment.I said credit card application when i should have said they fill out a form consenting to a credit check. To me that's still just as bad.

You are right, that is just as bad (if it is in fact true).

I don't know if everything is true that's been written, but if you attend ANY church, and you are bombarded with the "10% rule" every Sunday.....you may want to raise a red flag. I have attended church my entire life, and I never once heard of this. We were preached the story where a very poor old woman gave two coins, and the lesson was to give what we could to the church. There's a reason why the rest of the country makes fun of the Bible Belters, and it's not always undeserved.

The subject of the tithe could also be put under the thread of the IRS, and whoever was asking what is a fare tax.
If you really think about it, the 10% supported the church and the state (since in old Israel they were the same), so I think a fare tax is 10% of all income to support the church and state. Sounds great to me! Just someone please tell me how to divide it.

quote:

I don't know if everything is true that's been written, but if you attend ANY church, and you are bombarded with the "10% rule" every Sunday.....you may want to raise a red flag.

I may not be right about this, but as far as being Baptist goes i think Freewill Baptist don't stress the 10% tithe. You have the free will to give what you can. I do know the First Baptist church i once belonged to provided all members with envelopes with their names printed on them so weekly tithes from each member could be kept up with by the church treasurer in a large ledger. And it wasn't just the tithes they wanted......seems every week there was a different "fund" they wanted me to contribute to. Expensive house warming gift for the preacher's new home (furnished by the church), new carpet for his home, new state-of-the-art sound system, constant missionary funds, etc.

I now watch services on TV and give my money to local charities. Shameless plug--
Meals on Wheels is a favorite.

Well you good folks have made the ol dogs day! I didn't know what the response would be when I posted this (some folks can get pretty MEAN when it comes to religion) But all of you got the meaning and it is heartening to know that there ARE people in the Shoals who see through these MEGA churches and the hypocrisy. GOD BLESS YA! THE DOG

quote:

Originally posted by fleaze:
Are the people that attend that church that stupid? Anyone that is paying to pray and worship? What do they worship? Give me a break! Sounds to me like REAL snake worship!

Yes, people actually attend, but it is more like a FASHION SHOW on Sunday

When my daughter was in her teens, a few of her friends wanted her to go with them to be part of their youth group. All was okay for TWO WHOLE WEEKS, then we get a letter in the mail... FIRST asking what my yearly salary was... THEN inviting Amanda to a Sunday afternoon Pizza Party with the Preachers WIFE... The admission was ONLY 16 dollars!!!! SIXTEEN DOLLARS for a piece of pizza and meet the preachers wife? Sixteen dollars ten years ago was a lot more than it is now as to what you can buy... I could have bought Amanda a whole pizza back then for about 5 bucks, with ALL the toppings... I don't think so!!! SHE refused to go!!!

Then, she felt uncomfortable being there, so SHE quit going, I didn't make her. It took at least FIVE years to keep them from their weekly visits to my house wanting us to come to church, at least a letter a month, ALWAYS asking my yearly salary.

It felt like harrassment.... I am a Christian, but that was one thing that turned me against organized religion.

And NOW they installed a CAMERA!!!! Survelliance in church... Wow, how low can we go!!

quote:

Originally posted by themax:
You must be kidding me.A crooked preacher? Can't be. Must be a deacon behind it.

The way I read the story is the Deacon was the light fingered one. The preacher did not like his Deacon taking some of the cash before it got to the him.

I don't know about all those rumors but I can tell you what I experienced with that church when I was a bit younger.

I went a couple of Sundays with a close friend of mine, and was in the teenage sunday school group. Immediately after the second week, they singled me out, asking me all kinds of questions about what I believed and had I been saved.

Those didn't bother me, but then when I said at that point I hadn't been baptisted Baptist, that I was saved as a Lutheran, they immediately took me in to talk with the Preacher's wife. It was a very small room in connected to one of the adjoining halls. I didn't know what was going on, I thought I had said something wrong.

Then in this small interrogation style room, for 30 minutes they handed me pamphlets and a small bible, and told me I had to be saved. They even made me schedule a day to be saved with their church and also expected to attend another meeting with the Preacher's wife before hand, but I was to pay $16 for that next meeting. (just read my mom's comment, and she is right, that was a Pizza Party.. I forgot about that)

Needless to say I went home, and NEVER went back to that Church. The whole thing was Super creepy, and even then, the "Sunday group" visited my house at least once a month for years, trying to get me to go back.

I did laugh though at the "Six flags over Jesus" reference.. We always called it the "million dollar church".

I wouldn't go back to that place if I had to, neither will my son or any future children I have. *shakes head*

~Manda~

quote:

Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:

It took at least FIVE years to keep them from their weekly visits to my house wanting us to come to church, at least a letter a month, ALWAYS asking my yearly salary.

It felt like harrassment...

That's what turned my husband and I off quickly. We moved into our new home and was thinking that maybe those visits would stop, but the second day as we were unpacking the girl who said she was my "Sunday school teacher" pulled into our drive. Only our close family knew about the move. We hadn't even change the address at the post office! It was so awkward and terrible.

I don't like that type of hounding, it made us so mad. It is harrasment.

Yeah, I'd heard the same rumors. My family and I decided that church was not the place for us very quickly. We visited several times because some "acquaintances" we had met after moving into our house were members.
After that, the doorbell rang like clockwork every Wednesday night for about 2 months (about the time we sat down for dinner ). We received letters in the mail for almost a year.

We were getting so much pressure to join, I decided that was NOT the place for my family. It wasn't long thereafter, our "acquaintances" wouldn't have anything to do with us, Just because we had decided to go to a different church.

The church we now attend, we had one visit, after our first service we attended. I remember distinctly, them telling us to go to church where God leads us, not "You Must Join OUR Church". Anyway, we're much happier now, and good riddance to those arrogant, holier-than-thou people(at least the ones I came into close contact with). Who needs friends like that anyway??

quote:

Originally posted by *~*Manda*~*:
I don't know about all those rumors but I can tell you what I experienced with that church when I was a bit younger.

I went a couple of Sundays with a close friend of mine, and was in the teenage sunday school group. Immediately after the second week, they singled me out, asking me all kinds of questions about what I believed and had I been saved.

Those didn't bother me, but then when I said at that point I hadn't been baptisted Baptist, that I was saved as a Lutheran, they immediately took me in to talk with the Preacher's wife. It was a very small room in connected to one of the adjoining halls. I didn't know what was going on, I thought I had said something wrong.

Then in this small interrogation style room, for 30 minutes they handed me pamphlets and a small bible, and told me I had to be saved. They even made me schedule a day to be saved with their church and also expected to attend another meeting with the Preacher's wife before hand, but I was to pay $16 for that next meeting. (just read my mom's comment, and she is right, that was a Pizza Party.. I forgot about that)

Needless to say I went home, and NEVER went back to that Church. The whole thing was Super creepy, and even then, the "Sunday group" visited my house at least once a month for years, trying to get me to go back.

I did laugh though at the "Six flags over Jesus" reference.. We always called it the "million dollar church".

I wouldn't go back to that place if I had to, neither will my son or any future children I have. *shakes head*

~Manda~

Still makes me want to grrrrrrrrr!!!

I worked with a man for many years, he is retired now, but he was a Preacher also... but this was his JOB here... he kept them separate... Like someone else said, this man only asked for the members to pay the bills of the Church.. he took NO money from them.

He retired 2 years ago, and I really do miss him!!!

quote:

Originally posted by johnt:
Yeah, I'd heard the same rumors. My family and I decided that church was not the place for us very quickly. We visited several times because some "acquaintances" we had met after moving into our house were members.
After that, the doorbell rang like clockwork every Wednesday night for about 2 months (about the time we sat down for dinner ). We received letters in the mail for almost a year.

We were getting so much pressure to join, I decided that was NOT the place for my family. It wasn't long thereafter, our "acquaintances" wouldn't have anything to do with us, Just because we had decided to go to a different church.

The church we now attend, we had one visit, after our first service we attended. I remember distinctly, them telling us to go to church where God leads us, not "You Must Join OUR Church". Anyway, we're much happier now, and good riddance to those arrogant, holier-than-thou people(at least the ones I came into close contact with). Who needs friends like that anyway??

johnt... there were SEVERAL times this group would come to my house AFTER 9:00 PM!!! What gives THEM THAT RIGHT???? That is bed time for most kids, and any of us parents who had to get up very early. That would really tick me off!!!

Thankfully though, my kids are now grown, and I dont have to bother with them ANYMORE!!!

Jesus Christ was a carpenter and he worked for a living. He drove a donkey and did not ask for money.

I don't know, it sounds to me that this could be a story for 20/20!

MadDog,

It sounds like you have an axe to grind with First Baptist Muscle Shoals. How do you go from someone stealing money in Fort Payne to First Baptist in Muscle Shoals? I would like to encourage each person (pba, puckerupfrog, brakefield, etc.)to verify their statements before making them. There is no truth in the accusations you are making. I understand how easy it is for rumors to get started, but that is what these statements are--rumors. In a class the church has for people that want to know more about "Six Flags," it is even joked about that "you do not have to show us your W2...

The tithing envelopes are made available to each church member (not guests or visitors) so the person tithing can claim this on their taxes and the church has the proper documentation with IRS regulations. Why is it O.K. to have donation envelopes for other organizations, but when the church does it you say "They only want our money!?"

By the way, "Six Flags" is an amusement park. Have any of you actually attended this "mega church" to see for yourself what is happening there, and what is taught? I think you will find that there is very little "amusement" and "entertaining" that is going on.

Please don't be like those you criticize for spreading untrue/inaccurate information. Find out for yourself.

Thanks to all.

CWC, if you read the replies, you will see that some of us have attended that church. Maybe it does treat it's regulars different, who knows?

What they did to me, only hurt my idea as a teenager, when it came to religion. Thankfully, it didn't take away my faith in people and in being a good person, along with being a good Christian.

The six flags comment, was a joke.. May not be funny to those that go there, but heck when I was younger we called it the million dollar church, at least the Six Flags referrence makes it seem more fun.

I can tell you though, what they did to me, is absolutely, 100% true. I don't have video or picture evidence to show, but I do know that any church that acts like that, I don't want to attend, nor will my child and future children.

~Manda~

quote:

Originally posted by fleaze:
Are the people that attend that church that stupid? Anyone that is paying to pray and worship? What do they worship? Give me a break! Sounds to me like REAL snake worship!

Sounds like what was happening in the temple when Jesus drove the 'merchants' out after they had made a 'place of worship' into a 'den of thieves'....

quote:

Posted 26 January 2007 08:22 AM Hide Post
MadDog,

It sounds like you have an axe to grind with First Baptist Muscle Shoals. How do you go from someone stealing money in Fort Payne to First Baptist in Muscle Shoals? I would like to encourage each person (pba, puckerupfrog, brakefield, etc.)to verify their statements before making them. There is no truth in the accusations you are making. I understand how easy it is for rumors to get started, but that is what these statements are--rumors. In a class the church has for people that want to know more about "Six Flags," it is even joked about that "you do not have to show us your W2...

The tithing envelopes are made available to each church member (not guests or visitors) so the person tithing can claim this on their taxes and the church has the proper documentation with IRS regulations. Why is it O.K. to have donation envelopes for other organizations, but when the church does it you say "They only want our money!?"

By the way, "Six Flags" is an amusement park. Have any of you actually attended this "mega church" to see for yourself what is happening there, and what is taught? I think you will find that there is very little "amusement" and "entertaining" that is going on.

Please don't be like those you criticize for spreading untrue/inaccurate information. Find out for yourself.

Thanks to all

I appreciate the "invitation" but will respectfully refuse and Thank God you can't get my address or telephone number from this website. I TOO made the mistake that Manda and others talked about. VISITED one of this "ilk" of church one time (the walls didn't actually fall down so I thought I was safe) until like Kindred said PROMPTLY at 8:00 pm me and Missy Dog were lying in bed, I was drinking a beer and the doorbell rang and it was the "visitation" committee. THE DOG BARKS AND BITES! LOL I got rid of em REAL QUICK! THE DOG

What lake are you refering to when you say that the money goes for the preacher's fancy house on the lake? Call me crazy, but I didn't know they had a lake on Colbert Heights mountain!!

Posted 26 January 2007 08:22 AM Hide Post
MadDog,

It sounds like you have an axe to grind with First Baptist Muscle Shoals. How do you go from someone stealing money in Fort Payne to First Baptist in Muscle Shoals? I would like to encourage each person (pba, puckerupfrog, brakefield, etc.)to verify their statements before making them. There is no truth in the accusations you are making. I understand how easy it is for rumors to get started, but that is what these statements are--rumors. In a class the church has for people that want to know more about "Six Flags," it is even joked about that "you do not have to show us your W2...

The tithing envelopes are made available to each church member (not guests or visitors) so the person tithing can claim this on their taxes and the church has the proper documentation with IRS regulations. Why is it O.K. to have donation envelopes for other organizations, but when the church does it you say "They only want our money!?"

By the way, "Six Flags" is an amusement park. Have any of you actually attended this "mega church" to see for yourself what is happening there, and what is taught? I think you will find that there is very little "amusement" and "entertaining" that is going on.

Please don't be like those you criticize for spreading untrue/inaccurate information. Find out for yourself.

Thanks to all

I appreciate the "invitation" but will respectfully refuse and Thank God you can't get my address or telephone number from this website. I TOO made the mistake that Manda and others talked about. VISITED one of this "ilk" of church one time (the walls didn't actually fall down so I thought I was safe) until like Kindred said PROMPTLY at 8:00 pm me and Missy Dog were lying in bed, I was drinking a beer and the doorbell rang and it was the "visitation" committee. THE DOG BARKS AND BITES! LOL I got rid of em REAL QUICK! THE DOG
_______________________________________________________________________________________

MadDog, I don't want your address or phone number, and wouldn't try to get it if I could. I don't know which "ilk" of a church you visited, but from my experience if you ask someone who visits you not to come back, they won't. I don't see how this addresses the issues you and the others originally brought up and that I responded to.

There are large numbers of people who claim to be Christians-followers of Christ-who do NOT live according to the principles He put forth in the Bible. And there are many who pick and choose what they like and don't like from the Scriptures, and you cannot do that and be a true follower of Christ (per the Bible). In the last 100 or so years, American Christianity has become so watered down that is doesn't even resemble what real Christianity is. Most pastors today preach and teach that if you pray a prayer and join a church/walk down the aisle and shake the preacher's hand, you are now a Christian. And after doing that, you go out and live pretty much as you please, but you have your "ticket to heaven."

The Bible does not teach that. It does teach that when a person comes to see that their sin is against God, and that they deserve to be judged/punished eternally for that sin and that the only way they will be forgiven and made right in God's sight is to place their trust in the death of His Son, Christ Jesus.

God literally killed Christ to pay the penalty for my sin, and the sins of everyone who will believe in Christ's death and resurrection. And God says that when a person is given a new heart-literally the way that we see and believe life to be-that person WILL live differently. I didn't say they would live perfectly, but they will desire to be with other Christians (the Church), to read and live according to God's Word, the Bible, and to share with others the new life they have in Christ.

There are no strings attached to being a Christian--God only requires a person's entire life. He now calls the shots, not me. And there are things He requires that I don't necessarily like, and that don't "fit" with what how this world says I should live. Before I became a believer in Christ, I felt just like you do now.

I'm saying all this to try and explain that there is a difference between what we in America call "the church," and what God defines "the Church" as: His Bride, those who have trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, and whose lives are truly changed because of it. Their desire is not for themselves, but that others may experience the same new life through repentance (turning from sin) and faith (believing in Christ for salvation).

God does this in a person's heart...it is not simply saying, "I will be a better person, or I'll stop doing this or I'll start going to church."
That is why there are so many people saying "If that is what the church is, or if that is what Christians are like, I don't want to be one."
You seem to be fairly well-read (which I'm not), and you definitely have your opinions on things. So, get a Bible, and read it (I recommend the ESV or NASB translation-they are easier to understand). Just start with one book in it. Start with the book of John, in the New Testament. And as you read, compare what you think/believe now with what is written there. You likely don't believe that the writings are actually God's words to man, but that is ok. And you likely won't believe what is written about Christ, the Son of God, but that is ok. At least you will gain an understanding of what a real Christian is, so that in future posts you can discern between real Christians and those who are Christians in name only.

BTW--Not directing this just to you, but to anyone else who thinks that all Christians/church members are just hypocrites. True Christians/churchs do NOT fit what was talked about earlier in this thread.

If any man, preacher, teacher, whoever has let you down from some expectation you have of them;
1) A story ceases to be a rumor when you know the facts first hand, i.e. you were actually there (not a story from a friend of a friend of a friend),
2) Your expectations are not based on Biblical truth, which makes you inadequate and disqualified to form an opinion of any preacher anyway,
3) You have forgotten how many others have also let you down; whether it's an unkind aunt, nasty cashier at the grocery store, or driver on the freeway. You don't stop talking to your aunt, quit buying groceries, or driving for the rest of your life. An adult just realizes that ALL authority figures are just human beings, not super men and women. Sure, we all hate to see things we don't agree with in any preacher, but they sin too. The only standard for any of us is the Word of God. Do they line up with the Bible? Do I? How about you?...Do you think it's okay to gossip? or slander? or drink beer while thanking God in the same breath? Or to threaten to harm someone with your pet because you don't agree with or understand their lifestyle; why is that okay...Biblically?...****silence*** That's what I thought...Maybe when all Christians stop visting you, everything will be at peace in your life...when is the last time you tried to visit one of us, or prayed for us? or that preacher? ***more silence*** yeah, I thought so...Oh, don't try that "don't judge me" saying...it wears thin...When Jesus quoted it, He qualified it by saying that we aren't to hold someone to a Biblical standard that we aren't wiling to live by...case dismissed....

darksquire1

Funny you should say that, I am drinking a glass of red wine and reading your post, all the while listening to "Wholly Yours" by the David Crowder Band. I totally believe you can thank God over a nice pint or two.

BTW, the David Crowder Band is awesome!!! I don't know if any of you have ever listened to them or not. It is praise music that speaks to my soul.

www.davidcrowderband.com

check them out. The B Collison Cd is great! Bluegrass inspired

quoted Darksquirrel1:

****If any man, preacher, teacher, whoever has let you down from some expectation you have of them;
1) A story ceases to be a rumor when you know the facts first hand, i.e. you were actually there (not a story from a friend of a friend of a friend),
2) Your expectations are not based on Biblical truth, which makes you inadequate and disqualified to form an opinion of any preacher anyway, ****

What are you trying to say here? Any time a church body puts too much confidence and faith into one man, you end with fiascos like out in Colorado and that wonderful group of "Christians" in Kansas that visits KIA Soliders' funerals to shout out "God Hates ***s".

as quoted by CWC:
***BTW--Not directing this just to you, but to anyone else who thinks that all Christians/church members are just hypocrites. True Christians/churchs do NOT fit what was talked about earlier in this thread.***

I agree, CWC.

One of the biggest problems I see with some large, wealthy churches is their disconnectedness with the broken, dirty, stained human beings that need to be shown the love of Christ the most. IMO, it boils down to pride vs humility. We don't need to have a "bless their little hearts" attitude about it though. There but for the grace of God goes me. For that matter, that is me.

Questions we need to ask of ourselves are
Are we being the Body of Christ? Do we "Feed His Sheep" How are we helping the poor, hungry, sick, downtrodden and those in prison on a daily basis? My tithe shoud not be for the newest digital sound system for the choir, but to literally put food in someone's mouth and clothes on their backs. In heaven, we, as the Church, will be held accountable as to how we have treated Christ's Bride (and He wants us all for his bride), not to how many new and fancy things we can outfit our sanctuaries with.

Oversease Missions are great, but what about the hurting in our own communities? So many people nowadays equate rightousness with being blessed materially.

quote:

Originally posted by mandomama:
quoted Darksquirrel1:

****If any man, preacher, teacher, whoever has let you down from some expectation you have of them;
1) A story ceases to be a rumor when you know the facts first hand, i.e. you were actually there (not a story from a friend of a friend of a friend),
2) Your expectations are not based on Biblical truth, which makes you inadequate and disqualified to form an opinion of any preacher anyway, ****

What are you trying to say here? Any time a church body puts too much confidence and faith into one man, you end with fiascos like out in Colorado and that wonderful group of "Christians" in Kansas that visits KIA Soliders' funerals to shout out "God Hates ***s".

I'm saying that if I place my trust in anyone but the Lord Jesus Christ, eventually that person, whoever it is, will let me down because everyone sins; only Christ has the distinction of never sinning, because He is God in the flesh. What I did *not* say is that because I am a Christian I have the right to do and say as I please. If perfection in every area of every Christian life is the standard you're seeking for, let me save you some trouble; I, (we) will let you down. I can't speak for the actions of others in Kansas, China, or Mars but I *am saying* that Christ never asked anyone to act as those or others like those people in Kansas acted. Trying to hold every Christian to your standard is no more fair than if I compared you to every murderer, rapist, and thief who drinks red wine and listens to the David Crowder Band. It goes back to what I *did say* in the earlier post, any Christian must have a life that reflects a Biblical standard of glorifying God.

quote:

Originally posted by mandomama:
quoted Darksquirrel1:

****If any man, preacher, teacher, whoever has let you down from some expectation you have of them;
1) A story ceases to be a rumor when you know the facts first hand, i.e. you were actually there (not a story from a friend of a friend of a friend),
2) Your expectations are not based on Biblical truth, which makes you inadequate and disqualified to form an opinion of any preacher anyway, ****

What are you trying to say here? Any time a church body puts too much confidence and faith into one man, you end with fiascos like out in Colorado and that wonderful group of "Christians" in Kansas that visits KIA Soliders' funerals to shout out "God Hates ***s".

I am trying to say that if anyone places their faith in anyone but the Lord Jesus Christ, they are headed for a letdown. Not one of us perfect and I certainly don't align myself with or agree with those you mentioned. I can't answer for someone in Kansas, China, or Mars; I can only answer for me, as you must answer for you. If someone does not hold to a Biblical standard for their lives in order to glorify God, then that person does not Biblically fall under the category of a Christian. What if a murderer, or thief likes drinking red wine and listening to the David Crowder Band? Does that make them like you? Of course not! It's just like the unfair analogy that all Christians are held accountable for those not living Biblically but going by the name Christian. Works both ways

As a recovering Baptist, who attended Samford University, or the "Baptist Vatican" as we lovingly called the joint, I can only base my opinion of "Six Flags over Jesus" on Avalon Ave. on remarks made by relatives who used to attend. "Goblet" was not much of a pastor, more of a teacher/ceo of a huge powerhouse of a church. After having been around Jeff on occassion I found him cold, far too serious, and possessing a personality that would give one the impression he was privy to some cosmic secret no one else on earth could possibly understand - except him.

darksquire1, (sorry about the darksquirrel)

I completely agree with you. I never implied that any human could be perfect; only Christ was and, therefore, He was/is the only acceptable sacrifice for the Sin that seperates Man from God.

I also do not hold anyone to my standard of what I think makes a good Christian. The only standard I hold on to is that of Christ. Some people look at the life of Christ and model their lives and ideas in one direction, i.e. focusing on the Love for God,discipline, and holy living of which He taught. Others look to His teaching on Love for others, not judging, being peacekeepers. Some people might call them liberal Christians, while the first group might be labeled conservatives. Are either wrong? Christ called his Church to be united. I think it is a terrible thing when we start turning on each other. I think each person must live his/her life as they are called to by Christ. This is a deep and personal thing and goes beyond denominational doctrine.