Study: Alabama income tax on working poor harshest.

Alabama democrats taxing the poor. You can send thanks to Bedford and Denton.

Every time someone decent runs for office it seems the old boys set them up. Why in the world is Susan Parker not our representative for
AL-5 instead of Budlite?

The statehouse is a worthless pile of frozen minds. It is a shame that the asylum is so far away from them in Tuscaloosa.

It seems that Alabama gets exactly what it deserves for not voting for someone with a brain. Now Roy and some kid of Fob's is running for governor. What joy there is to be had in the Most Serene Christian Republic of Alabamastan.

Do away with state income tax and go to the sales tax system of florida...If you use the roads, infrastructure and other public facilities then you need to pay your portion of supporting those structures regardless of your income.

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Originally posted by trader:
Do away with state income tax and go to the sales tax system of florida...If you use the roads, infrastructure and other public facilities then you need to pay your portion of supporting those structures regardless of your income.

Sounds good to me!

Not, a bad idea. I would limit sales tax on food and prescription drugs. But, make up for that with an excise tax on certain luxuries and high end vehicles.

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Originally posted by interventor1:
Not, a bad idea. I would limit sales tax on food and prescription drugs. But, make up for that with an excise tax on certain luxuries and high end vehicles.

My thoughts exactly. I realize these laws will not get extremely specific, but I do know some individuals who can barely afford food who buy their dogs clothes. If I want a Bentley, I should be prepared to pay the taxes on it. Ground beef is something else.

If we are "all equal under the law", we should ALL pay the same amount, say ten percent of earnings. If ten percent is good enough for GOD it should be good enough for the government. If that does not cover government expenditures, cut back on spending like "realPeople" must do when funds are short.

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Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
If we are "all equal under the law", we should ALL pay the same amount, say ten percent of earnings. If ten percent is good enough for GOD it should be good enough for the government. If that does not cover government expenditures, cut back on spending like "realPeople" must do when funds are short.

Very well put! Great post SHELDIVR!

You guys are trying to use that common sense thing again. Remember it doesn't work with politics. The thing I disagree with is lowering taxes for the poor. Why give someone an incentive to stay poor? We should be trying to figure out ways to get people out of poverty and into becoming productive working citizens.

A flat tax would put hordes of lawyers, accountants, bureaucrats who work for the IRS, and others of that ilk out of work. The first, richest, and most vocal opponent of flat tax would seem to be the ABA. But it seems to work well for social security and medicare...at least, it would if the Government didn't waste the money.

Don't forget Alabama has low property taxes. High property taxes hurt the middle class and poor more than the wealthy.

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Do away with state income tax and go to the sales tax system

That could become an extremely regressive system if not done properly. If done properly, it could result in major revenue swings depending on economic conditions.

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Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
If we are "all equal under the law", we should ALL pay the same amount, say ten percent of earnings. If ten percent is good enough for GOD it should be good enough for the government. If that does not cover government expenditures, cut back on spending like "realPeople" must do when funds are short.

How in the world do you think we are all equal? A minimum wage nobody is not equal to a middle class or high class somebody. I don't think you understand the article. Try reading it again. For an example, the people working at WalMart, fast food chain, convientence store, and nowhere jobs are taxed more from their income than the guy with a high paying job. The person on these low wage jobs verses your high paying jobs is just barely getting by anyway. The guy with the high paying job is doing extra well. So I don't see how all this would be fair for those people working low wage jobs.

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Originally posted by Nobluedog:
Alabama democrats taxing the poor. You can send thanks to Bedford and Denton.

There may be a lot of things to blame Denton and Bedford for - but the regressive tax in Alabama is not one of them. I wrote a dissertation in 1976 in which the unfairness and the problems in depending on the retail sales tax were cited. the papere was on school finance - citations by authorities in the tax field.

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Originally posted by Nobluedog:

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Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
If we are "all equal under the law", we should ALL pay the same amount, say ten percent of earnings. If ten percent is good enough for GOD it should be good enough for the government. If that does not cover government expenditures, cut back on spending like "realPeople" must do when funds are short.

How in the world do you think we are all equal? A minimum wage nobody is not equal to a middle class or high class somebody. I don't think you understand the article. Try reading it again. For an example, the people working at WalMart, fast food chain, convientence store, and nowhere jobs are taxed more from their income than the guy with a high paying job. The person on these low wage jobs verses your high paying jobs is just barely getting by anyway. The guy with the high paying job is doing extra well. So I don't see how all this would be fair for those people working low wage jobs.

At the end of the year when they file their taxes the majority of that money is returned to them in their federal return, plus they also qualify for EIC. The middle class and so called rich, as you like to refer to them, come no where near getting their withholdings returned to them.
All you do is ask for more programs, and more expansive ones, and think that someone else (the rich) should pay for them. How much do you think we need to pay for it to be fair?
10% of $100 = $10
10% of $100000 = $10000
It is still 10%, what part of fair do you not understand?

Nobluedog seems to hate poor people, calling them "minimum wage nobodies." I can't believe someone with his supposed liberal leanings could be so unfair and cruel to people simply because they work for minimum wage. How can you call yourself a friend to the poor and oppressed if you think they are all nobodies?

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A minimum wage nobody is not equal to a middle class or high class somebody.

What? Why not?

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the people working at WalMart, fast food chain, convientence store, and nowhere jobs are taxed more from their income than the guy with a high paying job.

Uh, no.

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The person on these low wage jobs verses your high paying jobs is just barely getting by anyway. The guy with the high paying job is doing extra well. So I don't see how all this would be fair for those people working low wage jobs.

What do you suggest? Complete re-distribution of earnings?

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What do you suggest? Complete re-distribution of earnings?

Of course. The old socialist mantra of living off the fruit of someone else's labor.

dolemite,
You absolutely nailed it, THAT is exactly what they want, and slowly but steadily are having it arranged.

When I was working for minimum wage 18 years ago, I didn't feel like I was barely getting by. I enjoyed what free time I had and seemed to spend loads of money doing it. I had a Mountain Dew habit that probably amounted to at least 8 a day, not counting the 3 liters I kept in the fridge. I drove my little truck all over northwest Alabama back then, burning up the Citizen Band Radio waves as "Superman." Man, those were the days. Social class is as social class does. Your standing is what you make of it. Tons of people are happy making next to nothing. You have to live within your means. There was one year I made less than $5000, but I got by. I'm doing much better for myself these days. God's been good to me.

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When I was working for minimum wage 18 years ago, I didn't feel like I was barely getting by.

In all fairness, minimum wage did have more purchasing power 18 years ago.

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Originally posted by dolemitejb:

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When I was working for minimum wage 18 years ago, I didn't feel like I was barely getting by.

In all fairness, minimum wage did have more purchasing power 18 years ago.

In all fairness, minimum wage was $3.80/hour 18 years ago. Besides, you missed my point. My point is, your situation is what you make of it. Too many people attempt to live beyond their means. Likewise, too many people would rather sit around, expecting the government to give them a handout, than put their own hands to work.

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Originally posted by Tomme73:
When I was working for minimum wage 18 years ago, I didn't feel like I was barely getting by. I enjoyed what free time I had and seemed to spend loads of money doing it. I had a Mountain Dew habit that probably amounted to at least 8 a day, not counting the 3 liters I kept in the fridge. I drove my little truck all over northwest Alabama back then, burning up the Citizen Band Radio waves as "Superman." Man, those were the days. Social class is as social class does. Your standing is what you make of it. Tons of people are happy making next to nothing. You have to live within your means. There was one year I made less than $5000, but I got by. I'm doing much better for myself these days. God's been good to me.

I appreciate the spirit of your post, Tomme73, and I get what you're trying to say. However, I take it you were probably without responsibilities such as a wife and kids when you were making minimum wage. Mortgage and car payments, child care, groceries etc. take much more than minimum wage to sustain a family.

I was okay making that amount at one time as well - when I still lived at home. Minimum wage wasn't even enough for me to move out with a roommate, so I had to wait until I made more to do so at 19. I was lucky that I didn't get sick or my car didn't completely malfunction on me, because these are the things that usually break people financially. I was working and going to college full-time, but one catastrophe could have changed my future.

I do agree that most of us could live with less; we just don't want to try. It's not a matter of expecting the government to take care of you ('cause that's not what I want). It's a matter of looking at the issues facing American families in a realistic way. Most people aren't lazy; they just don't have opportunities anymore.

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Originally posted by Nobluedog:

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Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
If we are "all equal under the law", we should ALL pay the same amount, say ten percent of earnings. If ten percent is good enough for GOD it should be good enough for the government. If that does not cover government expenditures, cut back on spending like "realPeople" must do when funds are short.

How in the world do you think we are all equal? A minimum wage nobody is not equal to a middle class or high class somebody. I don't think you understand the article. Try reading it again. For an example, the people working at WalMart, fast food chain, convientence store, and nowhere jobs are taxed more from their income than the guy with a high paying job. The person on these low wage jobs verses your high paying jobs is just barely getting by anyway. The guy with the high paying job is doing extra well. So I don't see how all this would be fair for those people working low wage jobs.

Old yellah,

With your ADD, you've forgotten what I've told you about seven times. Very few workers make minimum wage, most are young and without responsibilities.

"these 1.7 million workers with wages at or below the minimum made up 2.3 percent of all hourly-paid workers. "

"Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up almost half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 7 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with fewer than 2 percent of workers age 25 and over."

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2007.htm

Repeating this becomes tiresome. Now, cut and paste the above and archive it. Then, when tempted to post something silly, review it. It will keep you from embarrassing yourself. And, keep me from pointing out your faulty logic, again and again and again ...!

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Originally posted by Nobluedog:

quote:

Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
If we are "all equal under the law", we should ALL pay the same amount, say ten percent of earnings. If ten percent is good enough for GOD it should be good enough for the government. If that does not cover government expenditures, cut back on spending like "realPeople" must do when funds are short.

How in the world do you think we are all equal? A minimum wage nobody is not equal to a middle class or high class somebody. I don't think you understand the article. Try reading it again. For an example, the people working at WalMart, fast food chain, convientence store, and nowhere jobs are taxed more from their income than the guy with a high paying job. The person on these low wage jobs verses your high paying jobs is just barely getting by anyway. The guy with the high paying job is doing extra well. So I don't see how all this would be fair for those people working low wage jobs.

NBD,

Why are you cracking on ShelDivr suggestion? He calls for a flat rate 10%. Okay. Trader advocates sales tax. I1 goes with sales tax with certain exemptions. And Zip goes with flat tax. I can’t see where ShelDiver’s comments rise to your level of concern if the others don’t. I find them all to be viable solutions. Heck, pick one and it’s sure to work but I’d rather see it work on a national scale rather than just local because Alabamians pay less tax. Yes, we are all equal because unless you have some sort of disability, your work output should be equal to mine or if you’re younger, a heck of a lot more.

BTW, I’m all for a level playing field regarding taxes. But what I am not for is changing the tax code because we pay less tax in Alabama. South Carolinians pay more in tax but they get less for their money than does Alabama. South Carolinians even changed their tax code to include taxing their own state retirees so they could tax federal retirees. Adios home state. I wish you well.

I love living here because Alabamians do not suck at the government tit. Alabamians will either do it themselves or do without and not whine about it. The folks I’ve met since moving here are hard workers and THAT is the reason they are not poor. I’ve dug ditches for a living because I did not want to make minimum wage. And those that can’t do that because of medical reasons, they have my sympathy and support. Otherwise, I have no use at all for the lazy because even retired, I’ll bet I work harder than most folks making minimum wage and for darn sure harder than those waiting on a government check.

Too bad there isn’t a tax on being lazy and stupid.

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Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
A flat tax would put hordes of lawyers, accountants, bureaucrats who work for the IRS, and others of that ilk out of work. The first, richest, and most vocal opponent of flat tax would seem to be the ABA. But it seems to work well for social security and medicare...at least, it would if the Government didn't waste the money.

I don't believe the flat tax would put anyone out of work. Most CPA work is in business services (auditing,bookkeeping, consulting), and income taxes for businesses would remain the same under the flat tax system.

The idea of the IRS being closed down is the most ridiculous proposal of all. No matter what system there is, someone has to process the forms - mostly done by computer - and collect the taxes. A flat tax only affects wage earners. The IRS spends most of its collection efforts collecting unreported income and business taxes - neither would go away with the flat tax. Do you think your neighborhood drug dealer is suddenly going to start filing a tax return under a flat tax system, or that Jerry Lee Lewis will suddenly become compliant?

Lawyers will always make business for themselves - and tax lawyers are only a small minority of the profession.

Oh, you're probably right. It was just a hope.

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Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:

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What do you suggest? Complete re-distribution of earnings?

Of course. The old socialist mantra of living off the fruit of someone else's labor.

here's another point of view: e.g.---- on average, skilled trades,in this part of the country , earn app. half the wages that are paid in,say, the atlanta , area........ so who is living off the fruit of someone else's labor?

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Originally posted by hammaknocka:

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Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:

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What do you suggest? Complete re-distribution of earnings?

Of course. The old socialist mantra of living off the fruit of someone else's labor.

here's another point of view: e.g.---- on average, skilled trades,in this part of the country , earn app. half the wages that are paid in,say, the atlanta , area........ so who is living off the fruit of someone else's labor?

My taxes go to pay for those who are either too stupid, lazy, or unlucky to pay their own way. Now, I don't really have too big an issue with #3; it's #s 1 & 2 I have a huge problem with.

And your comparison is apples to oranges...my wife, as an administrative assistant, earned the same amount I made as a senior mechanical engineer here in 2000. But the purchasing power of that money in LA was miniscule when compared with the purchasing power of the same number of dollars here. Number of dollars between two disparate localities is hardly an objective comparison.

Yes, I took a small hit moving from DC to Huntsville, but my new home is 25 percent less with more square footage, my utilities are 40 percent of DC and my state taxes are less.

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Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:

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Originally posted by hammaknocka:

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Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:

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What do you suggest? Complete re-distribution of earnings?

Of course. The old socialist mantra of living off the fruit of someone else's labor.

here's another point of view: e.g.---- on average, skilled trades,in this part of the country , earn app. half the wages that are paid in,say, the atlanta , area........ so who is living off the fruit of someone else's labor?

My taxes go to pay for those who are either too stupid, lazy, or unlucky to pay their own way. Now, I don't really have too big an issue with #3; it's #s 1 & 2 I have a huge problem with.

And your comparison is apples to oranges...my wife, as an administrative assistant, earned the same amount I made as a senior mechanical engineer here in 2000. But the purchasing power of that money in LA was miniscule when compared with the purchasing power of the same number of dollars here. Number of dollars between two disparate localities is hardly an objective comparison.

and your comparison was not exactly apples to apples

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...on average, skilled trades,in this part of the country , earn app. half the wages that are paid in,say, the atlanta , area...

The comparison was simple. In a higher cost area, you get paid higher wages. It all evens out (sort of). My wife was paid over $60,000 in LA for doing much the same work she was doing in the Shoals for around $10 per hour.

So when you tell me with, apparently, a straight face that you can compare what skilled labor in Atlanta gets with what skilled labor in Sheffield gets, then you lose me. Pay rate is all about what the lowest price the employer can get labor for. It's simply NOT the total number of dollars you bring in, because there are a lot of variables. It's what those dollars can purchase for you that is the true objective measurement.