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1. Be nice. Don’t get personal with a user simply because they have a different opinion. Debate without attacking.


Such a shame. Snide remarks, hateful comments, slams, etc. Coming from all sides. If I was looking in on this forum as a non-believer I would not care to know a Jesus who has followers who behave like this. No matter the denomination or the belief. Yes you are just playing into the hand of Satan by volleying ugly remarks back and forth. I am sure he is laughing and enjoying this knowing that nonbelievers are reading this and finding no enouragement or hope here. Oh yes parts of the Gospel are being shared but they are threaded in amongst insults and arguments over things that are unimportant to the Kingdom of God. I am sure He is shaking His head and stating that is not part of Me.

I would like to suggest that a truce of sorts to be called but I am sure it will be ignored because anything good that is shared here is ignored. However if it isn't ignored it will there will be posts such as, "Well if you don't like it you don't have to come here." No I don't. But others will and read all of this and that is what I worry about. I do not want people to believe that this is what Christianity is all about. Do you?

So if you are a beleiver who takes offense with this thread then you must take offense with the scripture that follows because it applies here:

"giving no cause for offense in anything, so that the ministry will not be discredited," 2nd Corinthians 6:3

"Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God;" 1 Corinthians 10:32

"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men." Mathew 5:13

So if you are a nonbeliever yes Christians do act like this sometimes. It is a pity and a sorrow that it happens. Especially when it is this publicly shown. Please remember that Christians make mistakes too because we are afterall just humans and not a perfect people either. Please know that there is a Jesus who loves you and will accept you no matter what you have and what you are. He just wants you to come as you are. Rich, poor, sick, healthy. It doesn't matter. The invitation is open to all. It is just up to you to inquire about it and to accept it. He doesn't promise to relieve you of your burdens here on earth but there will come a day where you will experience peace that is unknown in this world.

And the last thing I have to say about the trading of each snide comments here on this forum....
Luke 6:29
"If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."
No it is not what the world preaches. But I am more concerned about what my Jesus preaches. If you can't agree theologically at least share your testimony about the peace you have found in Jesus. Your personal testimony might be what someone needs to hear to lead them to Jesus. Oh and I want to say I do appreciate people sharing what they do in their churches. It has brought to the path to discover why I do what I do. I am reading about my beliefs and deciding for myself why I think the way I do. It is not man I follow but God. Thank you for bringing this revelation to me. It is a path God has brought me to and I am glad that He has. I need to know what I believe because He told me not because someone else told me to believe it.

God bless.
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quote:
SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN TO ME!
ALL FOR CIVIL DISCUSSIONS, SAY "AYE!"


Oh please. You are the primary instigator here. My God you are a narcissist! You can't even see that about yourself, can you?

Civil discourse is not possible as long as you are here preaching your intolerance for every person who do not worship the Lord exactly how you say they should worship, Mr. Gray.

As long as hateful, spiteful, insincere people like you are here pushing the fence sitters away from God so shall I be here to remind them that we aren't all a bunch of fundamentalist crazies. That there is room for both science, reason, religion and tolerance to live in peace with each other.
quote:
Oh please. You are the primary instigator here. My God you are a narcissist! You can't even see that about yourself, can you?

Civil discourse is not possible as long as you are here preaching your intolerance for every person who do not worship the Lord exactly how you say they should worship, Mr. Gray.

As long as hateful, spiteful, insincere people like you are here pushing the fence sitters away from God so shall I be here to remind them that we aren't all a bunch of fundamentalist crazies. That there is room for both science, reason, religion and tolerance to live in peace with each other


Awesome post, SK. How do I get one of the
bling-y flashy "AMEN's" to pop up here! Smiler
Well, "ignore", I'm afraid would leave nobody here to defend the attacks against anything with which he disagrees.
And it's certainly not a matter of not liking Mr Gray: I am certain he's a lovely man. Unfortunately, he speaks with an unproven authority, and, at times, speaks in error.
So, I personally believe it is our duty as Christians to protect the Word of God, and to protect our brothers from these attacks. It is easy for you to say this if you agree with all his "teachings"- but if you slip up, or disagree with him at some point.....you just may be glad there are others around to help you out. just a thought. Smiler but yes, in a perfect world, it would be easy to ignore. Unfortunately, when an individual is telling untruths about another's Church, in a public forum, isn't it our duty to call him out?
I think so. And I have heard your advicec, and tried to take a more compassionate approach to these issues. But I will say, there are some things that have been posted are absolutely INtolerable, and had to be refuted.
Smiler We can tolerate individuals, of course. But tolerate false teachings? No way.
"The Lord is a warrior; Yahweh is his name!" Exodus 15:3

My God is a great Warrior! He can fight any battle for you! As I once heard my favorite Christian speaker Beth Moore say, I will paraphrase, let God fight the battle for you and you will be victorious but if we fight it ourselves then you will be fighting God Himself. She also said, The one who wins the fight is not always the one who gets the muddiest." We should pray and get out of His way Smiler If you have 20 or so minutes check her out here. http://www.tangle.com/view_vid...8a7d38ee08fd24588ef3
Her lesson begins 3 or so minutes into the show.

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account." Hebrews 4:12-13
No worries. He knows your intent and heart and will judge you based on that. No one else can judge your worship and if they decide to do so they must remember this...
"You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat." Romans 14:10
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Mathew 7:1-5
Not saying anyone has a log to take out...that is up for you and God to decide.
My prayer for you...I pray for the Lord to give you peace Smiler
John 14:27 - "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

Colossians 3:15 - Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful.

I love MY Jesus and the peace He gives.
Do I think someone will take exception to this? Probably. And that is ok too.
God bless!
quote:
Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
People whom post...such as on this "string", are why the Charles Mansons...and Jim Jone's succeed...


Ah...but that is a whole different topic in itself. I will only address it a little because it is an diversion from the topic at hand but one worth addressing respectfully. Smiler

"'If a man strikes someone with an iron object so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death." Numbers 35:16

"Thou shall not murder." Exodus 20:13

The Old Testament addresses this issue. It is even included in the Law of God (the Ten Commandments.)

If you will watch the link I provided it states that in case of abuse you get out immediately. You should never stay in a situation that is violent.

Murder is not tolerated at all nor is abuse. Let me make that clear. But we are addressing peace among Christians not murder.

But thank you for your statement because nonbelievers and even Christians need to know that there is a way out by leaving and finding a safe place from an abusive situation that could lead to more violence. And that Christians do not tolerate murder. If you want to talk about another thread needs to be started. But I have said all that I need to say. If you want to know more check out the book of Exodus. It is pretty self explanatory. And I will not be caught in the trap of becoming defensive and defending God's Word because He can take care of that for me. Not only that I do not pretend to know all.
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
Uh-huh. People like Bill Gray are just one of the reasons people like me are still nonbelievers.

Hi Puppy,

Like you, I thought I had an excuse to avoid church and God for most of my life. My excuse was the traveling revival preacher who came to a church in Sheffield when I was a young boy.

If you want, you can always find an excuse to deny God. But, one day, you WILL NOT be able to deny Him -- for you will stand before Him. It's hard to deny someone when you are face to face.

So, if you are looking for excuses -- I guess I am as good as the next Christian believer.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Not only that I do not pretend to know all.


And for that you deserve respect.

Beliefs are (and should be) personal. I'd actually like to talk about my beliefs on this forum but jerks like Bill Gray make it simply impossible to have civil discourse.

Example: I don't really get the Trinity even thought that is part of my Episcopalian church. It just doesn't make sense to me and that is supported buy the apparent fact that no one even knew what a Trinity was until, what, the 1500's or so? In other words, it's not biblical.

Now, the town idiot will almost certainly give me a 20 page sermon on what the Trinity is and why if I don't' beleive it I will receive the Ultimate Punishment and blah blah blah.

Puke it makes me!
quote:
So, if you are looking for excuses -- I guess I am as good as the next Christian believer.


No, you are FAR WORSE than the next Christian. Every Christian I've ever associated with has been friendly, kind, accommodating (mostly), tolerant, patient, gentle with admonishment and heavy on the love.

Bill, you have absolutely NONE of these qualities! You can't HATE people to Jeusus!

TELLING ROAD PUPPY THAT HE WILL BURN IN HELL IF HE DOESN'T BELIEVE AS YOU DO WILL NOT MOTIVATE HIM TO GET RIGHT WITH GOD! CAN'T YOU SEE THAT!

God All Mighty!
Hi Sofa,

You tell us, "Beliefs are (and should be) personal. I'd actually like to talk about my beliefs on this forum but jerks like Bill Gray make it simply impossible to have civil discourse."

If our Christian beliefs are supposed to be personal and kept to ourselves; what does Jesus mean when He tells us, in Matthew 28:19-20, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit -- teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

What do you suppose He meant when He said, ". . .and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth." (Acts 1:8)

Or, in Mark 16:15 when He tells us, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation."

I don't know about you -- but, that sounds to me like Jesus Christ has given ALL Christian believers pretty clear marching orders: Get off the couch, Sofa -- and Go, Make Disciples, Baptize Them, Teach Them -- Be My witness in ALL the world. That seems pretty clear to me.

Next, you say, "Example: I don't really get the Trinity even thought that is part of my Episcopalian church. It just doesn't make sense to me and that is supported buy the apparent fact that no one even knew what a Trinity was until, what, the 1500's or so? In other words, it's not biblical."

Because you cannot fully grasp the Trinity -- it is not true? When Jesus said, in Matthew 28:19, ". . .baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,. . ." -- that announces and defines the Trinity: Father, Son, Holy Spirit -- and, it is in the Bible -- Matthew 28:19.

You say you are Episcopalian -- have you ever asked a pastor or elder about the Trinity? In your Bible studies, have you ever asked what the Bible tells us about the Trinity? How about in your Sunday School classes? You might ask them to more fully explain why the Episcopalian church teaches the Trinity.

The Trinity is most certainly Biblical.

Also, Matthew 3:16-17 give us the Trinity: "After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) descending as a dove and lighting on Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens (God the Father) said, "This is My beloved Son (Jesus Christ), in whom I am well-pleased."

Yes, even though the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible -- the concept is clearly and most definitely taught to us in the Bible.

Then, you tell us, "Now, the town idiot will almost certainly give me a 20 page sermon on what the Trinity is and why if I don't' believe it I will receive the Ultimate Punishment and blah blah blah. Puke it makes me!"

Did you learn to communicate like this in a sermon, or was it a Bible study, or maybe a Sunday School class? You know, I have attended Episcopalian churches before -- but, I never found this kind of hatred being taught in any of them. I wonder how I missed it?

And, finally, in your other post which followed this lovely one, you scream, "TELLING ROAD PUPPY THAT HE WILL BURN IN HELL IF HE DOESN'T BELIEVE AS YOU DO WILL NOT MOTIVATE HIM TO GET RIGHT WITH GOD! CAN'T YOU SEE THAT!"

Yes, I have said, based upon the Bible, that there are only two eternal destinations: heaven and hell.

And, I have said that each person, individually, MUST make a choice -- each person must make a personal choice whether he/she will spend eternity in heaven -- or in hell. However, I ask you to show me when and where I have told Puppy or anyone else that he/she IS going to hell. The only people who are going to hell -- are those who choose to go to hell, those who have condemned themselves to hell. I cannot tell anyone they are going to hell; I can only tell them that they MUST make a choice between heaven and hell.

So, my Friend, if you are going to scream -- please, at least, scream the truth.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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My daddy used to say, "it don't take near as much water to make a cup of coffee as some people think it does"

My momma used to say " you can say everything you know in 3 minutes,,, after that you are just repeating yourself".

Seems to take a lot of alphabet letters to get a simple point across.

Just a simple old farm boy a spouting some ideas.

May God Bless His Sheep.

Amen.
quote:
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit -- teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." I don't know about you -- but, that sounds to me like Jesus Christ has given ALL Christian believers pretty clear marching orders



Yes, you hateful person. Jesus does tell us to preach the word but NOT BY HATE! You can't breed hate, discontent, threaten them with violence and generally piss them off and expect to earn their love and save their soul!

I so pray that God will speak to your soul and humble you for your transgressions against him.
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Or, in Mark 16:15 when He tells us, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation."

I don't know about you -- but, that sounds to me like Jesus Christ has given ALL Christian believers pretty clear marching orders: Get off the couch, Sofa -- and Go, Make Disciples, Baptize Them, Teach Them -- Be My witness in ALL the world. That seems pretty clear to me.

Yes, you hateful person. Jesus does tell us to preach the word but NOT BY HATE! You can't breed hate, discontent, threaten them with violence and generally piss them off and expect to earn their love and save their soul! I so pray that God will speak to your soul and humble you for your transgressions against him.

Hi Sofa,

Spoken like a real Christian! You did say you are a Christian believer -- didn't you? I know you said that you are a member of the Episcopalian church; but, you NEVER said whether you are a Christian believer -- or not.

Let me see, in Galatians 5:22-23, we are told, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law."

And, in Philippians 1:9-11, we read, "And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ; having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God."

Then, James 3:18 tells us, "And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace."

Now, following these Scripture passages -- and using Ephesians 21:8-9 as our salvation guideline, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not as a result of works, so that no one may boast" -- would you say that you are a Christian believer?

Keep in mind, I am not saying you are -- or are not a Christian believer. I am asking the one person who knows you best -- YOU -- to tell us if you are a Christian believer.

Sofa, you have erroneously said that I have told other people that they "are going to burn in hell" -- you have erroneously said that I "threaten them with violence." Please show us where I have said these things -- or admit that you are attributing false statements to me.

As I told you before, I cannot say that about you or anyone else. Only YOU and God know for sure. But, rest assured -- YOU know the truth. What are you going to do about it?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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