Suicide and the Christians Among Us

Best, "pulling the plug" is not assisting in a suicide. FTR, morphine or similar drugs are used for extreme pain. Physicians have always known the right dose is dicey. I'm sure many (and many have admitted as much) give a large dose at the end of life and let nature take its course. Read a current book on medical ethics sometimes. It's fascinating.

If pulling the plug is not assisted suicide nothing is. A person doing that is helping that person die, either by their wishes or by what they think is the best for that person. My point, once again, is that this is NO different than what the humanists support. I just want buff, aka lexum, to explain how this is any different in his eyes. It isn't btw. He made the outrageous claim that humanists condone suicide. I want him to show some proof.

best, you never did listen well.

Best, look at it this way: You have two different patients.

Patient A: A person injured in a catastrophic accident who has stated in a living will written years ago, and updated, that he/she does not want to be kept alive by extraordinary means.

Patient B: A cancer patient who probably won't live but a few weeks or months, is in extreme pain, and wants to die early.

Denying or removing extraordinary life support is not assisting in a suicide. Providing a narcotic overdose is assisting in a suicide. Read any medical ethics textbook. While we're on the subject, patients have the right to refuse a gastrostomy or blood products that could prolong their life. It's not committing an act to end life early, but it is refusing an act that would extend life.

Fire I have no idea why you don't understand what I'm posting. I have said over and over that I have not given any opinion on it. Try to follow along. Lexum, aka buffalo, has posted, made a thread in fact, that humanists promote suicide for anyone for any reason. I am showing him that they do no such thing. They support the SAME thing that the christians support. I want him to tell me in his own words why it is OK for christians to support assisted suicide, or "pulling the plug" but he has a problem when humanists support it. 

I understand what you're asking lexum, but you are not stating it very well. It's rather like someone saying do you support am****tion or shooting a patient to death for a badly broken limb. The two are totally separate. Pulling the plug should never be discussed in the same breath as suicide.

How can I make it any clearer? HE claims it's suicide when humanists support it, but tries to claim it ISN'T suicide when christians support it. Got that? The only difference is in HIS definition of suicide. 

BTW fire, it was the author of the article, not me, that titled it:

Assisted Suicide: A Christian Choice and a New Freedom

Jenn, I understand perfectly what you're saying. Don't know why it's so hard for others to get it.

lexum has no intention to answer your question or he already would have. He won't because he will end up looking like a fool....again.

best i guess you cannot read. the manifesto teaches suicide and euthanasia. It does not qualify the two in any way as far as age or specific reasons but leaves it to to being a civil liberty.

whether you want to admit it or not best this is a dangerous realm of socialism.

the religious are not this goofy. The difference between this group of goofies and the religious is the religious know when reality begins and the game of religion ends. There is a point where hypocracy suits the situation better. Best somewhere in your head there is a cause for this apparent perceptual pitch circularity seeing the world as unstable and never hearing the same note of reasoning long enough to follow for other than a brief moment a simple train of thought. You seem to have a mistrust in society as a whole which makes you a good candidate for the humanist crowd.

I can read buff, so why won't you show me the link to your claim? Or copy and paste it? Sorry pal, but your christian manifesto teaches suicide and euthanasia whether or not YOU want to admit to it. So instead of continuing to lie, post the specific lines that say humanists teach suicide and euthanasia. BTW, your christian manifesto doesn't mention age either. So bub, show us.

“

it is our conviction that humanism offers an alternative that can serve present-day needs and guide humankind toward the future.

- Paul Kurtz and Edwin H. Wilson (1973)”

“SEVENTH: To enhance freedom and dignity the individual must experience a full range of civil liberties in all societies. This includes freedom of speech and the press, political democracy, the legal right of opposition to governmental policies, fair judicial process, religious liberty, freedom of association, and artistic, scientific, and cultural freedom. It also includes a recognition of an individual's right to die with dignity, euthanasia, and the right to suicide.”

I want to see the part that supports your claim that they advocate suicide for people for any reason, including teens and children.  So far it sounds just like your "christian" manifesto".

Not good.

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best

the Bible guides Christians. not some Christian Manifesto.

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How many Christians do you know that truly lives by the Bible & allows it to guide them?

Sadly, not enough...myself included  Most 'Christians' are the ones that fit into the category of 'Do as I say...not as I do'. We WILL be held accountable in The End.

As for suicides: I can only speal of the CoC. They teach that suicides are unpardonable sins....akin to blasphemy, since one is destroying the 'temple' (body) of Christ.  I'm not so sure... I know The Bible states that '...God will not tempt us with more than we can bear..', but having seen a suicide note in which an 87 year old gentleman shot, and killed, his wife (she was dying of terminal cancer and had been in unmeasurable pain for months) of 60+ years, before turning the gun on himself.  The pain, hopelessness and love he expressed in his suicide note.....I just don't know.

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dogs example above is why we should allow assisted suicide for the terminally ill. It is the compassionate and loving thing to do. It is so sad that this poor man had to go to these extremes and take it in his own hands to end the suffering of the woman he had loved for most of his life. He and his wife should have been able to turn to trained medical professionals that could have ended her suffering in a humane and peaceful way. Many people have argued against this type of assisted suicide calling it murder or 'playing god" I think that is a ridiculous attitude. More than likely these same people have had a family pet put to sleep due to old age or illness to keep it from suffering, yet they don't feel that their fellow human beings deserve the same kind of compassion.

Most people who are against assisted suicide are religious. I want to ask them why do they believe that their God would want to see someone suffer so when there is no hope for any recovery? Would a just and loving God not be understanding and want to see these peoples pain ended? Why is it ok to use science and technology to "play god" in other aspects of medicine, yet they draw the line here, where medicine could make this persons last moments peaceful and painless?

In my opinion, based on much observation and supported by the knowledge I have received at the feet of geniuses like Robert Sapolsky [a claimed to be atheist] anyone who assists in suicide [rather than bore you with the science] has to do with a problem in the head rather than the feet.