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Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Fire, I want buff to explain to me why he's upset with the humanists. Seems he has a problem with them alone about assisted suicide or "pulling the plug." I haven't given my opinion about it so I don't know where your little lecture comes from. 

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i'm not talking about assisted suicide bestun.

   I'm talking about humanist teaching children that it's ok to commit suicide.

Humanism is child abuse.

Originally Posted by lexum:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Fire, I want buff to explain to me why he's upset with the humanists. Seems he has a problem with them alone about assisted suicide or "pulling the plug." I haven't given my opinion about it so I don't know where your little lecture comes from. 

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i'm not talking about assisted suicide bestun.

   I'm talking about humanist teaching children that it's ok to commit suicide.

Humanism is child abuse.

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And I want a link to that claim, which you can't provide because it's not true. 

but here it is:

 

SEVENTH: To enhance freedom and dignity the individual must experience a full range of civil liberties in all societies. This includes freedom of speech and the press, political democracy, the legal right of opposition to governmental policies, fair judicial process, religious liberty, freedom of association, and artistic, scientific, and cultural freedom. It also includes a recognition of an individual's right to die with dignity, euthanasia, and the right to suicide. We oppose the increasing invasion of privacy, by whatever means, in both totalitarian and democratic societies. We would sa***uard, extend, and implement the principles of human freedom evolved from the Magna Carta to the Bill of Rights, the Rights of Man, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights

http://contenderministries.org...anism/manifesto2.php

 

" See Spot Run?" it's easy to learn to read.

" It also includes a recognition of an individual's right to die with dignity, euthanasia, and the right to suicide."

I don't think Lexum understands that there is a difference between euthanasia at suicide.  Euthanasia is a cessation of life from the actions of others.  Suicide is from the actions of one's self. ow in the world do we live in a world where, if I am diagnosed with a terminal illness and do not wish to face the inevitable pain and suffering, I am not able to make an informed choice to terminate my own life?  Lexum, it does not appear that humanists are advocating for unrestrained suicide any more than unrestrained euthanasia.  They are advocating for the right of people to make informed choices about the end of their lives.  What is so evil about that? Would you advocate removing my right to decide if if I want to end my own life? Seriously trying to understand what you are trying to say - other than vilifying a group of people who are guilty only of thinking differently than you.  

Yes frank lex knows the difference but where does the atheist/humanist draw the line when teaching small children that suicide is an acceptable option? Say a child has a problem fitting in at school, is suicide an option. I think you are stretching to think children should be taught this article of the manifesto. I say it’s child abuse in its most bizarre form being criminal.

EIGHTH: We are committed to an open and democratic society. We must extend participatory democracy in its true sense to the economy, the school, the family, the workplace, and voluntary associations. Decision-making must be decentralized to include widespread involvement of people at all levels -- social, political, and economic. All persons should have a voice in developing the values and goals that determine their lives. Institutions should be responsive to expressed desires and needs. The conditions of work, education, devotion, and play should be humanized. Alienating forces should be modified or eradicated and bureaucratic structures should be held to a minimum. People are more important than decalogues, rules, proscriptions, or regulations.

ELEVENTH: The principle of moral equality must be furthered through elimination of all discrimination based upon race, religion, sex, age, or national origin. This means equality of opportunity and recognition of talent and merit. Individuals should be encouraged to contribute to their own betterment. If unable, then society should provide means to satisfy their basic economic, health, and cultural needs, including, wherever resources make possible, a minimum guaranteed annual income. We are concerned for the welfare of the aged, the infirm, the disadvantaged, and also for the outcasts -- the mentally retarded, abandoned, or abused children, the handicapped, prisoners, and addicts -- for all who are neglected or ignored by society. Practicing humanists should make it their vocation to humanize personal relations.

Originally Posted by lexum:

i figger if you would wish me dead you are capable of anything.

 

 

Well, that's another thing you can show me, where i wished you dead. RP said the person "attempted" suicide. Not committed. But the truth doesn't matter to you members of the "liars club" and cryabeetus crowd. You're pulling a bill and trying to pull attention away from the fact that you lied. 

at·tempt·ed, at·tempt·ing, at·tempts

1. To try to perform, make, or achieve:
 
Definition of commit (verb)
forms: committed; committed; committing

to perform; to do; to engage
 

This is the current and active Humanist manifesto.

 

HUMANISM AND ITS ASPIRATIONS

Humanist Manifesto III, a successor to the Humanist Manifesto of 1933*

Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.

The lifestance of Humanism—guided by reason, inspired by compassion, and informed by experience—encourages us to live life well and fully. It evolved through the ages and continues to develop through the efforts of thoughtful people who recognize that values and ideals, however carefully wrought, are subject to change as our knowledge and understandings advance.

This document is part of an ongoing effort to manifest in clear and positive terms the conceptual boundaries of Humanism, not what we must believe but a consensus of what we do believe. It is in this sense that we affirm the following:

Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies. We also recognize the value of new departures in thought, the arts, and inner experience—each subject to analysis by critical intelligence.

Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.

Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.

Life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death. Humanists rely on the rich heritage of human culture and the lifestance of Humanism to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty.

Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships. Humanists long for and strive toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. The joining of individuality with interdependence enriches our lives, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all.

Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness. Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community. We seek to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability, and we support a just distribution of nature's resources and the fruits of human effort so that as many as possible can enjoy a good life.

Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views. We work to uphold the equal enjoyment of human rights and civil liberties in an open, secular society and maintain it is a civic duty to participate in the democratic process and a planetary duty to protect nature's integrity, diversity, and beauty in a secure, sustainable manner.

Thus engaged in the flow of life, we aspire to this vision with the informed conviction that humanity has the ability to progress toward its highest ideals. The responsibility for our lives and the kind of world in which we live is ours and ours alone.

For historical purposes, see preceding Humanist Manifestos: I and II.

 

......a quote from Manifesto III

"Life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death"

 

IF you  get a wad of these people and convince them that  "Life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals" and the finality of death, you got yourself some Jim Jones. i would suspect under the right circumstances they might just insist at gunpoint you drink the cool-aide.

From your christian manifesto:

 

Do we not serve our deepest convictions if we decide to end our life at the moment in which its sacredness becomes compromised?

 

 

IF you  get a wad of these people and convince them that  "Life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals" and the finality of death, you got yourself some Jim Jones. i would suspect under the right circumstances they might just insist at gunpoint you drink the kool-aide.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Destructive cults

The People's Temple, led by
James Warren (Jim) Jones

horizontal rule

 

horizontal rule

Background of the Peoples Temple:

This was a Christian destructive, doomsday cult founded and led by James Warren Jones (1931-1978). Jim Jones held degrees from Indiana University and Butler University. He was not a Fundamentalist pastor as many reports in the media and the anti-cult movement claim. He belonged to a mainline Christian denomination, having been ordained in the Christian Church/Disciples of Christ. (At the time of his ordination, the DoC allowed a local congregation to select and ordain a minister on their own. However, ordinations conducted without denominational endorsement were not considered valid within the rest of the church.)  

 

This is inaccurate. Jim Jones was not a Christian and The People's Temple was not a church. Jones was an atheist and his "temple" was an experiment in Communism.

 

Just like other attempts at Communism, it failed and cost lives in the process.

 

To say that Jones was a Christian and his "temple" was a place of religious worship is historically incorrect.

 

"By spring 1976, Jones openly admitted even to outsiders that he was an atheist."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P..._Temple#cite_note-53  See citation 53.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Nice try but jones was a "christian". 

Please see the transcript cited. Jones stated in his own words that he was an atheist.

 

"Off the record, I don’t believe in any loving God. Our people, I would say, are ninety percent atheist." - Jim Jones 1976.

 

"My bishop knows that I’m an atheist. He— He knows that I— I— I recognize only love, when I say— I’ll say, 'God is Love'" - Jim Jones 1976

 

Both taken from the same FBI tape of a recorded phone conversation.

 

You don't have to take my word on it, the citation has been provided if you choose to review it.

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