Skip to main content

Forgive me if y'all have seen this one before, but it's worth the risk.

Think about it the next time someone complains that the rich people get the lion's share of a tax cut.

Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.


The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until on day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20."Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'


They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.


So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier. Kinda like what Halliburton just did!

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia


DF
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

quote:
Originally posted by airborne92:
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
All income tax is illegal and immoral.

Watch the IRS puppets stammer when put on the spot.


I agree, but EdEKit seems to thinks that it is completely legal and that anyone making more than $30,000 a year needs to be taxed even more.


We're in an impossible situation. Our politicians have taxed, borrowed and printed us into a disastrous corner. Realistically, we'll have to cut spending and start producing instead of consuming. Just remember debt and deficit spending is a future tax increase. It'll just be our children and grandchildren who pay for our government's incompetence, and I say that with a heavy heart.
So that's where all my tax dollars go -- to buy some guy I don't know beer????!!!! hahahahha

Great Econ 101 there DeepFAt -- gives me a new perspecting on being around the 4th, 5th of 6th place in that analogy...

I hope if I ever get to the 10th position I remember where I came from and give back to those that need it in ways that will help...
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
Thank you, that was very interesting, DeepFat, but now I'm stone cold drunk.

<just kidding>

I would like for us to have a flat tax & be done with it.

Hit me again.


I also like the idea of a flat tax. No loopholes and no deductions.
The Bible taught a flat tax of 10%, called a tithe. In those days the tithe supported both church and state.
excelman,

Actually, the tithe supported the temple and support for widows and orphans. Rome still expected Judeans and others in the empire to pay taxes and provide military service, as required. Taxes were labor on roads, aqueducts and harbors and excise taxes on luxury goods. If you were wealthy you could pay a servant or slave to provide the labor.

Personally, I like a flat tax, with a big individual deduction and that's it. Real poor would pay nothing and the rest something.
Smart Chick,

The Fair Tax is a much better system than the status quo, but it will never be implemented.

The tax structure we have is part of our dysfunctional government. It exists as such for political, not revenue, purposes. Pols use the tax system to reward their friends and punish their enemies.

Liberals like taxes on The Rich (meaning me, and I ain't, I just work) just to appease The Poor and their own guilty consciences. Conservatives like to reward businesses and protect wealth.

Benevolent, progressive, insightful tax policy has nothing to do with it.

The Fair Tax is simple and transparent and difficult to manipulate for political purposes. Like the two party electoral system, we are stuck with the tax structure we have until our current system crashes and burns, which I predict is inevitable.

DF
quote:
Originally posted by excelman:
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
Thank you, that was very interesting, DeepFat, but now I'm stone cold drunk.

<just kidding>

I would like for us to have a flat tax & be done with it.

Hit me again.


I also like the idea of a flat tax. No loopholes and no deductions.
The Bible taught a flat tax of 10%, called a tithe. In those days the tithe supported both church and state.


If you are going to use GWB's words, please use the entire quote so it is in the proper context.
Source: GWB Speech in St. Charles, MO Nov 2, 2000
"You know what else has changed on this issue? There are thousands of younger workers who understand that if our government does not think differently, they either are going to have to pay huge payroll tax increases or have major reductions in benefits. It doesn’t have to be that way. We trust individual workers, and so our plan says we’re going to keep the promise to our seniors. But we’ll allow younger workers at their choice to invest some of their own money in the private markets to get a better rate of return so that the Social Security promise will be kept.
And this frightens some in Washington. Because they want the federal government controlling the Social Security like it’s some kind of federal program. We understand differently though. You see, it’s your money not the government’s money."
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
quote:
Originally posted by airborne92:
quote:
Originally posted by miamizsun:
All income tax is illegal and immoral.

Watch the IRS puppets stammer when put on the spot.


I agree, but EdEKit seems to thinks that it is completely legal and that anyone making more than $30,000 a year needs to be taxed even more.


We're in an impossible situation. Our politicians have taxed, borrowed and printed us into a disastrous corner. Realistically, we'll have to cut spending and start producing instead of consuming. Just remember debt and deficit spending is a future tax increase. It'll just be our children and grandchildren who pay for our government's incompetence, and I say that with a heavy heart.


The Double Trouble of Taxation

Taxes were on the forefront of many Americans’ minds this week as they scrambled to meet the April 15th deadline to file their returns. Tax policy in this country hurts taxpayers twice – once when they pay taxes, and then when the government spends the money. Americans are sick and tired of the financial burden and the endless forms to fill out. To add insult to injury, after collecting this money the government does some very detrimental things to the economy.

The burden of complying with the income tax is tremendous. Since its inception in 1913, the tax code has gone from 400 pages to over 67,000. The Tax Foundation estimates that around $265 billion dollars and 6 billion hours are spent just on compliance. That expense amounts to about 22 cents of every dollar the IRS collects. Imagine the boon to the economy if we spent that time and money expanding our businesses and creating jobs!

Aside from the direct loss of money and productivity, the funds from the income tax enable the government to do some very destructive things, such as vastly over-regulating economic activity, making it difficult to earn money in the first place. The federal government funds over 50 agencies, departments and commissions that formulate rules and regulations. These bureaucracies operate with little to no oversight from the people or Congress and generate around 4,000 new rules every year and operate at a cost of about 40 billion dollars. There are some 75,000 pages of regulations in the Federal Register that Americans are expected to know and abide by. Complying with these governmental regulations costs American businesses more than one trillion dollars per year, according to a study by Mark Crain for the Small Business Administration. This complicated system drives production to other countries and shrinks our job market here at home.

Big government is destructive when it takes your money and when it spends it. There is no economic benefit to supporting a government sector as massive as ours. In fact, this country thrived for well over 100 years without an income tax. Today, if you took away the income tax, the government would still have revenue from other sources equal to total government spending in 1990, when government was still too big. $1.2 trillion should be more than enough to fund a government operating within its constitutional confines, and that is exactly what we need to get back to.

I have introduced legislation many times to abolish the IRS and the income tax. It is fundamentally un-American to require taxpayers to testify against themselves and be considered guilty until proven innocent. Abolishing the IRS altogether would trigger an avalanche of real growth in the economy.

With these financial hard times only just beginning, this would be the most efficient and logical way to get our economy growing again, and Americans would need not dread the 15th of April every year.

by Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

April 22, 2008

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×