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Tom Tomorrow:



I had a chance last night to see a small sneak preview of an unreleased documentary called “Taxi to the Dark Side” by filmmaker Alex Gibney (who was nominated for an Emmy Oscar for his last film, “Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room”), which examines, basically, how we got from there to here — how we became a nation whose government openly renounced the Geneva Conventions and officially sanctioned the use of torture.

I have to be honest, it’s not the easiest thing to sit through. The film, which primarily focuses on abuses at Bagram, Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, contains footage of the Bagram base that’s never been seen anywhere else, as well as the shockingly familiar still images from Abu Ghraib, uncensored and high res. The filmmaker, who attended last night’s screening at Yale, described it beforehand as a sort of murder mystery, using as its springboard the story of Dilawar, the young taxi driver who was apprehended by Afghan militia and turned over to the U.S. military at Bagram, where he was, in fact, eventually murdered. And that’s not hyperbole — the official coroner’s report lists the cause of death as “homicide.” (The film notes that out of more than 100 deaths in U.S. custody, 37 have been officially declared homicides by the U.S. military itself. Perhaps even more shocking is the fact that only seven percent of Guantanamo detainees were were actually apprehend by the U.S. military — the rest have been turned over by Afghan warlords, Pakistanis, bounty hunters, etc., any of whom may have had agendas having nothing to do with the American war on terror. Dilawar’s captor, for instance, turns out have been the person actually responsible for the rocket attacks of which the taxi driver was wrongly accused).

If you’ve been following all these stories over the past few years, there’s not a lot here that you probably don’t already know — but it’s still overwhelming to see the entire case laid out in such a methodical manner. In addition to the footage mentioned above, the film presents its case through interviews with guards and interrogators from Bagram, as well as former JAGs and other military officials. I’m sure they’ll do it anyway, but it’ll be hard for the usual suspects to paint this as a partisan hit piece when probably 80% of the talking heads are military and/or Republicans. Interspersed with their descriptions of the abuses are shots from the State of the Union in which Bush assures the audience, with a steely Clint Eastwood look in his eye, that the United States has illegally hunted down and murdered foreign nationals (I’m paraphrasing slightly, of course) — and gets a standing ovation from both sides of the aisle. Or when Alberto Gonzales, testifying before Congress, is asked about confessions obtained under duress, and stares into the camera for a full thirty seconds, face twitching as he tries to think of a suitable lie. (At the moment, it seems a bit obscene to me that the thing that’s ultimately going to bring Gonzales down is not his advocacy of torture, but rather the partisan firings of U.S. Attorneys.) Not to mention the footage of Dick Cheney explaining to an approving Tim Russert that the United States, like the rogue cop in a buddy flick, was going to have to throw the book away and play by its own rules for awhile.

Watching this film, I had a strange sense of being “unstuck in time,” to quote the late, great Kurt Vonnegut — as though I were watching it twenty years from now, trying to understand the madness into which this country descended in the years immediately following 9/11. (The footage of Rumsfeld, in particular, was like watching contemperanous footage of MacNamara justifying Vietnam.) If there’s any justice in the world — and one doesn’t come away from this movie filled with overwhelming hope that there is — Gibney will have settled once and for all the question of whether or not these abuses were the official policy of the United States government, sanctioned at the highest level.

“Taxi to the Dark Side” premieres at the Tribeca film festival in New York City at the end of the month, and with any luck will pick up a distributor there. If you know anyone who thinks that Rush Limbaugh’s line of “Club Gitmo” t-shirts are the funniest **** thing they’ve ever seen, you’ll want to try to steer them to a showing.

(Edited for accuracy; I didn’t have a notebook with me last night. The 7% figure refers to Guantanamo detainees, not detainees in the entire overseas detention system, as previously stated.)
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The tortures are Abu Ghraib were the result of inexperienced personnel and inattentative officers. They have been court-martialed or reduced in rank. The tortured men were the worst of Saddam's torturers -- the man in a poncho connected to a 12-volt battery was a professional rapist.

In 1964 there were eleven prisons in Cuba, now there are 301. But, all you natter about is a small one in Guatanamo.

Can we spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-t?
The policy of torture was created by the Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales click. They were aware, helped set and expand guidelines and techniques. These are not isolated incidents by a few "rogue" and unsupervised soldeirs. They are occuring in all US controlled or connnected prisons

There are lawsuits that showed how Rumsfeld was directing and in touch with what was happening. The lawsuits are being thrown out because of technicalities and Rumsfeld's powerful position and influence. Besides, he would not go down alone and would blow the whistle on everyone involved.

They are War Criminals.

It's late and I will to present the details tomorrow but the general in charge of Gutanamo was sent to Iraq to "Gitmotize" Abu Ghrab. Torture has been legalized by our govenrment and this is what the documentry shows.They also practice kidnapping and secret prisons as well as sending "suspects" to thrid countries to be tortured.

Guatanamo is only one and of a few and is setting a very danger precendent and course where prisoners have no rights to a fair trial and refute the charges against them. It is no different then the Nazis.

Torture is immoral, inhumane and a crime against humanity and international law.
There are lawsuits concerning the disposition of dog poop on the sidewalk. That doesn't mean they have been won or decided. Lawsuits have been a US sport since 1800.

Unless you're posting this from a foreign setting with a triple blind masking of you posting ID, this is not the same as the Nazis. where are the camps for persons such as your deluded self?
interventor:

There are lawsuits concerning the disposition of dog poop on the sidewalk. That doesn't mean they have been won or decided. Lawsuits have been a US sport since 1800.

Unless you're posting this from a foreign setting with a triple blind masking of you posting ID, this is not the same as the Nazis. where are the camps for persons such as your deluded self?

________________________________________________________________________________________________

The lawsuits outline and trace the policy of torture. It goes right up into the White House. Torture is now a US policy, front page news, it's why the passed the Military Commissions Act. They think they can legalize it and exempt themselves from their crimes and international law but so did the Nazi's. As Martin Luther King pointed out, everything Hitler did was legal. But as we all know it's not. I know that Rush, Sean, Ann and Bill are ignoring it but you had better expand your sources of information. The rest of the world knows about it and just as the German people who condoned Nazi crimes are responsible so are Americans, even if it doesn't bother your conciousnce. We are already seeing that support for US continues to decline throughout the world as we continue to carry out war crimes.

As the film points out torture is a fact. Besides the torture and abuse at Guantanamo, Abu Ghrab, Bagram other secret prisons have been reported by the mainstream media and foreign and independent press. A number of them are in Eastern Europe. They are set up by the CIA who continue to oversee the operation. The recent release and testimony of the German citizen who was mistaken for an al Qaeda operative and sent to a secret prison is another example. The CIA also kidnaps "suspects" and sends them to these prisons or countries known for torture.

Torture is nothing new for the US. US has taught and participated in torture for decades. It began in Latin America with the School of the Americas which taught Latin American military officers torture. It continues to this day.

It's no different then the Nazi's.
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
There are lawsuits concerning the disposition of dog poop on the sidewalk. That doesn't mean they have been won or decided. Lawsuits have been a US sport since 1800.

Unless you're posting this from a foreign setting with a triple blind masking of you posting ID, this is not the same as the Nazis. where are the camps for persons such as your deluded self?
There are lawsuits about having your guts sucked out by a swimming pool too. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al have admitted to approving TORTURE. They say they only approved a little bit of torture. Gonzales says it's OK if you get information that may save American Lives. BROWN SUGAR COMES IN A BOX, BS is found in fertilizer bags. Problem one, when a terrorist is caught, everything he ever knew about terrorism becomes moot. It ceases to be valid. Do people think we are fighting morons? The absence of a member at roll call disbands and reforms the group. If you catch, or just take into custody and hold for a day or two, a member of a terrorist cell, HIS CELL IS OUT OF EXISTENCE. Its plans discarded, and a new plan is instituted. If you catch the point man of a platoon of infantry they change their position and route...or they can expect to walk into an ambush.

There is a point of no return in any operation, even driving to the airport. If you leave with too little gas to get there you don't arrive on time. If you don't arrive for the departure the flight leaves without you. If you miss the meeting before a bank robbery only the dumbest robbers on the planet go ahead with the robbery. They scatter to the four winds, after deciding where to meet up again, or risk being caught waiting for you to show up.
If the torturers ask you to name names, you lie, give them the names of anyone you can think of besides the people you are loyal to.

One of the most effective ways of finding terrorists is to infiltrate the network. An exceptional example of that is Mohamed Noor Kahn. An Al qaeda agent who was cooperating with the Pakistan government. He was rendered totally useless to our side by revealing his name. Condi Rice made that blunder. She wiped out his effectiveness in one news briefing for purely political reasons. She wanted to stop criticism of an effective move to prevent an attack in the USA that had not been completely uncovered. That attack did not happen, but the bombing of the London Underground did, because they were not being coordinated by Kahn. It was publicly announced that over 20 terrorists had been identified, but less than half of them captured, by the Kahn cooperation.
In my original post I failed to post the link. It is from cartoonist Tom Tomorrow's site:

posted by Tom Tomorrow at 8:42 AM | link


Besides the facts that a number of these prisoners are innocent and torture has not shown to be reliable it is morally wrong. It's not necessary either. Even the FBI and many CIA officials have stated that they find it to be unreliable. The movie shows how the taxi cab driver was killed under these conditions. He was completely innocent.
These types of crimes will only increase hatred of the US and harden our opponents.
It will anger and sicken people who would have been allies and now they will believe there is no difference between either side. And they might be right.

There has never been a "ticking bomb" scenario and there most likely will never be. Only in TV fantasy land. It's propaganda based on fear.

Tom Tomorrow compares Rumsfeld to McNamare but I am reminded of the Third Reich.

What kind of society is this when torture is not only sanctioned but a TV show uses it in a weekly suspenseful drama? It's used as propaganda and entertainment. It's funny because in their self righteousness the right wing are beating their chests on what good Christians they are and yelling about putting God in our schools and courts and defending Christmas and claiming we are a Christian Nation and yet they defend the use of torture. Isn't that what the Romans did to Jesus?

Well, remember that "with what measure you measure it will be measured upon you." One day they may turn those goons on us. Bush's pledge of allegiance is "You are either with us or against us."

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