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Example: The people who were protesting Muslims trying to build a Mosque in Murfreesboro. They were from all different Orthodoxs. Baptist, Church of Christ, Methodist, Catholics, ect. Now, we are against them building a place to worship, but we demand our Freedom of religion. Those people recieved bomb threats, protests, roadblocks and who knows what else and it came from Christians in general. It doesn't matter what your Orthodox is. We only support people's Freedom of Speech and their Freedom of Religion as long as it's the same as ours. This is what causes the fighting all over the world. We refuse to agree to disagree or respect someone else's beliefs and then we shove ours down their throat causing conflicts and fighting everywhere.

 

You have to look at it like this. People protesting muslims are for the most part people born and raised in this country, their families were born and raised in this country, so of course they feel like it is their country, and it is. Islam is a vicious "religion", and muslims for the most part act like the first christians did, and who knows, plenty probably would again if given the chance. Muslims come here for what reason?  When they come here, they have money, they left a place where they were free to "be muslims", so that's one question I have, why do they come here? That's one place to start to try and understand what's going on. The men go back to the muslim countries and marry women they've never met, arranged marriages, the females living here are put into arranged marriages too. So one theory, it's not a savory religion, still so much violence and oppression. Who wants that to spread all over their country?

So then your saying you don't support Freedom of Religion? "If" in the course of them practicing their religion they were to break the law of our land then it's up to the Justice system to handle that. It is not our place to prevent people from practicing their religion because major media makes us believe that all Muslims are violent. I work with several Muslims and they are far from violent. As a matter of fact the leader of that particular Mosque speaks out against violence to other Muslims. Don't group them together because they are not all Extremists. As far as why they come here, I'm sure they all have different reasons. The one's I work with came here for better opportunities like most people do from all over the world. The same reason our ancestors did. I won't fault them for that.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Mr Bill, as you well know, we will someday stand before our Father in Heaven, and account for our choices in life here on earth. God promises to stand for us if we stand for Him, and i believe He is  true to His word.

His Love for me is so Amazing, i try to use every opportunity to share it with the world! It's like having the best gift ever, and wanting everyone else to have it too Of course, everybody doesn't like the same 'things', and that frees them to leave The Gift behind. 

As for the eternal issue, the 'Grand Prize' so to speak, it's all up to us whether we hear "well done good and faithful servant, enter in...."...or not.

Thx my brother, for your support. We will have thousands of years to talk when He calls us Home

Blessings to you.

 

Hi Hippie Girl,

 

You have stated the case for faith very well.  I agree with you.  In this mortal life, truly knowing the splendor of God is beyond our grasp, as you well illustrated with you "tip of the iceberg" illustration. 

 

Thank you, my Friend, for continuing to stand for our Christian faith.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Isaiah 55_8-9 - Iceberg

Originally Posted by NotaBigfan:

I have some questions.

 

1. Why is it that all across the world that people claim to have this great God, but they are always the one's fighting with one another. Non believers aren't the one's burning the world to the ground, believers are.

It is very true that throughout history many conflicts and wars have been between various Religions and even factions of the same Religion.  Catholics and Protestants in various parts of the world have been waging war as well as egregious actions against each other.  Likewise Muslims and Christians or other religions have been at each other in wars and conflicts and even to today there are many conflicts between Jews, Christians, and Muslims.  Those conflicts are unfortunate and regrettable but many come from human fallacies than fallacy with God.  Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship and believe in one single deity/God and that God has approached mankind attempting to communicate and provide Salvation unto man.  Where conflicts and stark disagreements come into play is when man teaches man their own interpretations as to who God is and more specifically what God wants.  Many Radical Muslims are led to believe that by waging war against Israel/Jews and against the West/Infidels that they can bring about their own savior/messiah that will usher in their final days.  Give these people a Nuclear weapon and steer clear of Israel for they, with this mentality, will use it for they are taught and convinced that by doing so and dying they will immediately inherit paradise for themselves.  This what I believe they are taught but in their teaching there is no challenge to ideas, no questioning of conflicts or their scripture for their religion is so strict that to question or challenge beliefs is akin to blaspheme and brings a death sentence and condemnation upon the person who doubts or challenges the teachings of the main leaders of the Religion.  It's thus easy to see how Islam can be a violent religion among those who are the most base of people for they are so governed by FEAR and oppression.  As for wars among Christians again I believe at the root of these are uninformed believers who accept what man says without challenge and false teachers and people that took over the Religion used people who were kept in ignorance, to accomplish their own selfish needs and deeds.  I do not believe these people were and are real Christians but are users, are devious people who use the gullibility of people to make them believe that they are somehow God's personal Representative and that they somehow have Spiritual power themselves.  In other words they have not God's interest and will in mind but their own power and their own control and people blindly follow them as if they follow God.  That's not a justification but rather an opinion (mine) as to how such horrible things come from what is supposed to be pure Love and Grace and Mercy from God.

 

2. So your telling me this....If you as a Christian fail to witness to me and I burn in Hell for all of eternity, then your held accountible, but you get to go to Heaven anyways while I burn?

I do believe that God specifically relates unto mankind and does so through His Holy Spirit.  The individual believer, I believe, is given God's Holy Spirit upon their Salvation/Conversion, and that at times God can and does direct certain individuals to become active in a ministering way.  Here again it's unfortunate though that some Christians take things upon themselves and usurp the roll of God's Holy Spirit and without direction or prompting attempt to take matters into their own hands.  I do believe that God/Christ wants us/Christians to be witnesses of what we have been given and what we know but unfortunately many, I believe, do not do this prayerfully and according to Christ Instructions.  We are not to be judgmental of people for that is not our direction or challenge.  We can be witnesses by being a living witness allowing the fruits of the Holy Spirit to be demonstrative through us.  Showing attributes of Christ/God in our daily lives but also willing to share with someone whom God prompts, through curiosity, to ask of us the reason for which we believe, which is another way God relates to mankind.  Ultimately each person is responsible for their own lives and their own relationships with God and what God wants and directs for them.  If God through some burning bush type undeniable command orders or impacts a person to do something and they don't do it then yes that specific individual, I believe will suffer punishment at some point in time for that deviance from God's Will. It is God though that, I believe, has to enable a person to understand and comprehend their personal Spiritual need and not a man/human/woman.  God can use people through the ways I mentioned above, either by directing/enabling a person or urging a person through curiosity and the Holy Spirit's prompting to ask another believer of that which creates a desire or thirst for knowledge.  Or God can direct a specific Christian to interact with another specific person or group but (I believe) when this happens then God/God's Holy Spirit has gone before that person and before and prompted the heart/mind/soul of the person laid onto this persons mind/heart and therefore there will be no adversarial relationship but it is more a fulfilling of events set into order by God Himself.  In other words a person has a need and is looking for a specific answer and God prepares that answer, ahead of time, and the person from whom it will come and uses the specific Christian to say just the right words or do just the right thing that confirms with the person that God is ministering unto or Convicting that it is real and legitimate and not just happenstance or a chance thing.   No I do not believe that Christians have to save anyone in and of themselves.  They are instead to be receptive to Gods use and calling when needed and prompted to do as He (God) wills/wishes. .   

 

3. God is Love. If I live a good life, raise a good family, obey the law, treat others with respect, help the needy and all that, but I simply do not chose not to believe in something that apparently no one can agree on without throwing insults at, condeeming others, or protesting someone else's beliefs......then I'm the one who God will send into a lake of fire and torture forever because he loves me more than anyone else on this earth possibly could? But a man can murder people, rape people and kill babies and as long as he turns from his wicked ways somewhere along the road he is good to go?

Here it's often that we, humans, try and humanize God constraining Him to Human understanding and Human Wisdom.  Thinking that God should act or do as Humans should act or do.  Forinstance thinking since we are good and morale that we deserve merit and God's benevolence and mercy account of something we have done or some sacrifice we have made.  I look at it more this way.  God established long before Humans and Life on earth a penalty upon sin and disobedience among His (God's) Creation.  Being a Just God He also one day along the timeline of eternity future will have Judgment of sin and sinners or those who deviate from God's appointed path.  Being a "Loving God" though He also provided a path or way by which mankind can obtain justification and salvation from the penalty against sin.  God made that path and that escape clause known and we know from John chapter 3 that the way to escape Judgment, obtain Justification and Salvation is in and through Jesus Christ.   In other words God predetermined before mankind a verdict against sin as well as the escape from that judgment, being a loving and compassionate God.  Scripture (God's Word) says that we/mankind cannot please or satisfy God through our acts or anything that we can do, in and of ourselves, but can only satisfy God through the provided sacrifice of Blood, a Blood Sacrifice for sins and ONLY Christ provided the PERFECT, non-corrupt sacrifice from the Cross.  Some would ask what is more simple or Loving than that?  Establishing a way to escape pre-determined Judgment, not only providing that way and path but becoming mortal man Himself using His own blood and crucifixion as that sacrifice then making it known unto mankind what is required for that escape and Justification.   

 

As a young adult let me tell you people on here a couple things. Alot of you are a bunch of Hypocrites. More of my friends have simply walked away from church simply because of that one fact over anything else. Religion is the problem in this world. All the fighting that is going wouldn't be if it wasn't for religion. Don't expect any young person to read forums like this and expect them to show up in church listening to your ignorance the next Sunday. Stop blaming things like music, video games, internet and ect. for corrupting us. It's you doing it, I promise. Look at yourselves on here. I don't want any part of your lives or religion. Nothing about you people or your views is good. You talk a big game, but in the end it's all a smoke screen. Most of you believe what you do because thats what your parents told you to do. Your Baptist because you were born Baptist. Your Muslim because you were born Muslim. ect. ect. No offense, but I was raised in church for the last 21 yrs. 3 times a week, every week. I've seen what your about and I don't want any more of it. Go on protesting same sex marriage while your preachers and priest keep having affairs and molesting children. Clean out your own closets before your judge mine.

 

It is very unfortunate that many Christians are not perfect once they are Saved but they are still within a flawed and sinful body effected by those sinful desires and actions.  It is also unfortunate that many look at Man/Women as a substitute for God.  While attributes of God's changing Salvation can be observed in people the real proof and evidence is from direct communication and interaction with God's Holy Spirit.  People are flawed and always will be as long as they are in the flawed flesh and body.  God's mercy and Salvation and Peace with God though is achieve only through God direct and through an intimate, personal relationship with God via His Holy Spirit through faith in Christ.  It is though true that many people allow other flawed people/humans to get in the way between them and God and bias them from allowing God a chance to communicate with them.  It is my prayer that for those that honestly seek God that He will provide ample evidence and proof to them that He (God) is calling and seeking them.

 

 

First of all thank you for your opinion, from your perspective, I think everyone can often learn from conflicts as much as they can from agreement.  As a professing Christian I would like to attempt to address or comment on a few points you made.  Please note I plan to make those comments within your quoted text above and will do so with blue colored text so as to keep things and my answers within context of the questions ask or points made.

Originally Posted by The Nagel:
Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone.:

interesting comments Nagel. i respectfully submit a few thoughts and questions...HG

 

HG> You suggest that i empty my cup filled with what i already believe to be true.... (I offer the same suggestion to you.)

 

The Nagel> trust me. my ' cup' is empty. dumped it out myself, and then flushed.

HG> an empty cup sounds such a desolate place to be between refills. God continually refills my cup. the more i share it, the more He refills.

the only thing that goes in it now are things than can be proven.

HG> certainly your choice, and i believe God gives us all that same choice.

i said i wasn't an atheist... and i'm not. to carry the silly analogy further HG> nuff said.,

while my cup is 90% empty, it is held up by a saucer. 
as suggested to me on this forum by some guy who alias i can't remember, i've discovered that my beliefs fall most closely  to that of a Deist. not exactly, but close enough. 

i believe there is some superbeing..whether or not this being is divine is unknown and irrelevant. he set the rules of physics into motion and created the universe, then basically went to take a nap.

HG> then it is proven that this superbeing came from where?
there is no one watching over us, there is no one guiding us, there is no one answering prayers.
i believe we have a reason for being here.. an end goal , if you will, and this god is just chillin' until we get there. 

HG> what is our reason for being here? and where is 'there'? If you have scientific proof that there is an 'end goal', a 'there', what and where would that be? 
i do believe in some sort of afterlife, but can't imagine what it would be like.. i do NOT believe in the biblical heaven or hell. eternity of torment and pain because of one moment of weakness, and God Loves Us? what a load of horsefeathers.

another thought... if there is a God, like in the bible, he's done everything in methods indistinguishable from nature, and has remaind so perfectly hidden and undetectable for so long HG> He isn't hidden and undetectable to those who believe in Him. He is very visible in every aspect of my earthly life, starting with the first breath He gave me, til the last.

... why would anyone think that he wants us to worship him? if god is real, it seems to me like he's given us every indication that he wants us to leave him the heck alone.

Originally Posted by NotaBigfan:

So then your saying you don't support Freedom of Religion? "If" in the course of them practicing their religion they were to break the law of our land then it's up to the Justice system to handle that. It is not our place to prevent people from practicing their religion because major media makes us believe that all Muslims are violent. I work with several Muslims and they are far from violent. As a matter of fact the leader of that particular Mosque speaks out against violence to other Muslims. Don't group them together because they are not all Extremists. As far as why they come here, I'm sure they all have different reasons. The one's I work with came here for better opportunities like most people do from all over the world. The same reason our ancestors did. I won't fault them for that.

 

=================

If you're going to twist what I post I can see I wasted my time. No where in my post did I say I didn't support freedom of religion. However, I DO NOT support any religion taking over my country, and yes, especially islam. You asked a question and I gave you my thoughts on why people oppose them. No where did I "group them together." I used the statement "for the most part".  We could say that for the most part christians are good people, but the ones that get the most attention and disgust are the fundies. Maybe the ones YOU were speaking of in your first post?? Do you ask the muslims you work with the same questions? Have you asked THEM who they're fighting and why? What was their answer?

====================

 

 

1. Why is it that all across the world that people claim to have this great God, but they are always the one's fighting with one another. Non believers aren't the one's burning the world to the ground, believers are.

 

2. So your telling me this....If you as a Christian fail to witness to me and I burn in Hell for all of eternity, then your held accountible, but you get to go to Heaven anyways while I burn?

 

3. God is Love. If I live a good life, raise a good family, obey the law, treat others with respect, help the needy and all that, but I simply do not chose not to believe in something that apparently no one can agree on without throwing insults at, condeeming others, or protesting someone else's beliefs......then I'm the one who God will send into a lake of fire and torture forever because he loves me more than anyone else on this earth possibly could? But a man can murder people, rape people and kill babies and as long as he turns from his wicked ways somewhere along the road he is good to go?

 

Originally Posted by gbrk:
Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

gb, you wound me.

 

My intention is not to confuse.  I'm curious as to the religious thoughts of teens in suburban Alabama.  After all, it's where I'm from.

 

When I was a teen there, it was assumed that I was a Protestant believer.  And I was, sorta.  But these are different times.  Young people all over the country are no longer marching in lockstep with the religions of their parents nearly as often.  You see, belief is not something one chooses.  It's a matter of experience, education, and cultural influences.  It's usually external.  One can't choose to believe.

 

With the internet, kids these days have so much more information at hand.  They are in a position to discover what they believe, based on a wide-ranging spectrum of information I did not have.  Good on 'em.  You should appreciate this, too, as I'm sure you regard the truth above all else.

 

DF

In no way was I attempting to denigrate your question for I assumed and presume it to be legitimate and without ulterior motive, an assumption I hope is true.  The statement I made with regards to maybe it being your point in the beginning was more levity than sincerity.  It's a play on a point, I believe, you made, on a previous day, that basically stated that the arguments between many Christians as well as the Judgmental approach that some take being responsible for running people from Religion rather than drawing them into sincere discussion about it. 


In other words I meant that if a sincere person was to come in and engage some in sincere dialog, asking a sincere question about some aspect of Religion or Christianity, more specifically, that there would be some, all be it with good intentions, that would potentially answer questions or address the individual as if they were already in error and attempt to correct them in the error of their ways.  On the other side (possibly) there would be those that, rather than express their opinions, would denigrate the person asking the question for their beliefs or make a comment about the person's intelligence due to their believing as they do.  Both types of people would have a detrimental effect on someone new being willing to join in and ask any form of sincere question from any religious basis or point of view.

 

I can't speak for others, but for  myself only, and my intent in engaging another person in dialog is to attempt to first represent a Christian perspective but do so in such a way that is generic enough that it recognizes that there are many diverse denominational standings regarding many different topics.  If I were to answer a question or query in such a way to assume to be dogmatic and answer for all Christians in such a restrictive way to deny or reject all other doctrinal opinions then I would also, by doing so, invite possible contentious responses from other professing Christians of certain denominational positions and end up sponsoring a contentious argument rather than fostering a discussion that sincerely was directed at answering the initial inquiry, from a Christian perspective.  Afterwards, after a rapport had been established where mutual respect was achieved and assumed then specific details or doctrinal differences can be examined and expressed if such applied.  

 

If a calculating atheist were to desire to sew confusion and conflict (which I do not feel you are doing) then what better way than to create a dialog in which one Christian contends with and against another and instead of addressing the central question or point ends up more demonstrating confusion and a contentious environment where it seems that no one knows what they are talking about or why.  I though do not believe that was your intent so I apologize if it came across that way. 


My actual assessment of your basis for the question is to see if young Christians actually have some basis for their belief or if their basis resides more in what mom and pop said or what someone else said and they heard but have no actual reason to base their own understanding upon. 


We all (believers and non-believers) have basis or reason to believe as we do but many are not confident enough to express those reasons and others are uncomfortable expressing their basis for their core beliefs.  Naturally I assume you wish to have opportunity to express your reasons for your personal choice to those you believe are in like or similar situations.  Likewise there are Christians, myself included, that fully believe we also can contribute in positive ways and help elevate potential confusion and misinformation that is often put forth about our respective beliefs and positions and who desire to see new Christians mature in their faith just as I'm sure you feel a reason for your being here is to attempt to persuade people to challenge their beliefs and present your own information which you feel has been beneficial to your own experiences and beliefs.    We do definitely disagree with. each other's positions yet we are both passionate about our own beliefs and basis of our beliefs.  So hopefully you are not so wounded now that hopefully I have clarified my statement or why I said what I did. 

Thanks for assuming my sincerity.

You said "... intent in engaging another person in dialog is to attempt to first represent a Christian perspective...  That is your right.  Have you ever considered a perspective outside your preconceived beliefs?  Have you ever tried to put aside your beliefs and gauged the world as you find it, naturally?  It's what I do every day.

 

 

"Christians should also be just as concerned that those who believe know what they believe and why they believe what they do. "  I could not agree more.  There is, or should be, more to the conclusion of accepting any religion more than some warm, emotional feeling about it.  There is the coa rse and subtle philosophies of a religion, its history, its pre-history, its influences on society and individuals, its costs and benefits.

 

I'm an atheist.  Big surprise.  I have explored Christianity, as well as Buddhism (which I admire more), Islam (which I admire less), Hinduism, Shintoism, Taoism, etc.  They are all human inventions designed to answer questions for which we had no answers.  They are designed to explain our emotions and assuage our ignorances.

 

My wound is healed.     I'm enjoying the conversation.

 

DF

Originally Posted by Winston Niles Rumfoord:

Are you enjoying this? 

 

"It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble."

==================

Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers;
A peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked;
If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers,
Where's the peck of pickled peppers Peter Piper picked? 

Originally Posted by Chuck Farley:

I was brought up as a Methodist.  Can you tell me who we are fighting?

I was brought up Methodist, as well.  The stories of the Old Testament were related as true. 
Genesis,  Original Sin.  The Flood, the Exodus.

 

So were the stories of the New Testament.  The salvation of humankind by the crucifixion. Hell.

 

It's all tosh.

 

The human species is corroded by such untruths.

 

DF

quote:   Originally Posted by Jennifer Bestworking:

Uh, winnie, there is no breath after death.  Ever heard the expression, "took his last breath"??  How about "his breathing stopped"?


Hi Jennifer,

 

That is possibly a good point -- for non-believers.  However, we believers KNOW that the last breath in this mortal body -- the next breath IS in heaven, face to face with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

Philippians 1:21-24, "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.  But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.  But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake."

 

2 Corinthians 5:6-8, "Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord -- for we walk by faith, not by sight -- we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

 

2 Corinthians 5:1-2, "For we know that if the earthly tent (our mortal bodies) which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God (our immortal bodies), a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.  For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven."

 

So, my Friend, whether you want to believe it and accept it now -- you WILL have an immortal body.  And, you WILL find that this last mortal breath -- is merely passing through the door into your eternal, immortal life.  

         

However, as long as you are still in this mortal body -- you still have a chance to believe and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior -- and to follow Him into eternity.   The only alternative will not be pleasant -- and, eternity is a very long time.  Think about it.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

If You Died Today

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  • If You Died Today
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Jennifer,

 

That is possibly a good point -- for non-believers.  However, we believers KNOW that the last breath in this mortal body -- the next breath IS in heaven, face to face with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

 

Philippians 1:21-24, "For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.  But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.  But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake."

 

2 Corinthians 5:6-8, "Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord -- for we walk by faith, not by sight -- we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

 

2 Corinthians 5:1-2, "For we know that if the earthly tent (our mortal bodies) which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God (our immortal bodies), a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.  For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven."

 

So, my Friend, whether you want to believe it and accept it now -- you WILL have an immortal body.  And, you WILL find that this last mortal breath -- is merely passing through the door into your eternal, immortal life.  

         

However, as long as you are still in this mortal body -- you still have a chance to believe and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior -- and to follow Him into eternity.   The only alternative will not be pleasant -- and, eternity is a very long time.  Think about it.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

_____________________

#6 - do you just copy and paste this stuff.  #6 would have saved you enough time to take an extra long shower.

NotaBigfan...your post about your questions & everything you said following those questions was right on.

Question #1?....They fight about who's right & who's in the wrong church or in a cult. 

 

Question #2?....If a Christian fails to witness to you & you go to Hell, said Christian is not held accountable other than one less stone in their crown.

 

Question #3?....If you live the kind of life you mentioned, but don’t chose to believe in something where you get to throw insults, condemn others, protesting someone's  beliefs, then yes, you are the one God will throw into a fire pit, & torture forever because, yep, he loves you so much.

But people like Hitler, Manson, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, & Jeffrey Dahmer, (who “found God & was forgiven” when he was in prison), those that rape & torture babies & small children, the list goes on & on, those people, by God “saving” them, get to go to Heaven while decent but “lost” people get dumped into that fire pit.

That man or woman that does those terrible things, but turns from his/her wicked ways somewhere down the road, then yes, according to the Bible, those people are good to go.

Yes, God is Love….kinda boggles the mind, don’t it?

 

The rest of your post was wrong on!!

Look for the wanna be, know it all forum preacher, to tell you that fire pit was made for Satan & His Angels. That may be but since it's there, God is going to add a bunch more people to it.

That wanna be, know it all forum preacher, is actually a wolf in sheep's clothing. He's pretending to be the other because that's the job Satan gave him, to turn as many people as he can off to religion.

Manson Family Member Bruce Davis Granted Parole (Again)

 

 

 

 

For the second time in less than three years, The California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation's Board of Parole Hearings (BPH) issued a grant of parole today to Bruce Davis, a former "Manson Family" member. This was Davis' 27th parole suitability hearing, according to the CDCR.

 

Davis, 69, has been incarcerated for 40 years, serving life sentences for two 1969 murders separate from the more notorious slaying of actress Sharon Tate and several others at her rented hilltop home. His convictions are for the murder of Gary Hinman on July 25, 1969, and for the murder of Donald "Shorty" Shea sometime between August 16 and September 1, 1969, though some believe Davis is tied to at least one other killing.

 

 Does Hallmark make a card for this?

You're Dead, I'm Alive, But-

(Sorry about that little stabby stabby, cut cut thingy.)

 

 

As detailed earlier this year when Davis had been slated for a hearing, if released, Davis would go to transitional housing in Los Angeles County and would try to pursue a career in the ministry. He is a born-again Christian and has earned a doctorate degree in philosophy of religion while behind bars.

 

http://laist.com/2012/10/04/ma...r_bruce_davis_gr.php

Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone.:
 

 

The Nagel> trust me. my ' cup' is empty. dumped it out myself, and then flushed.

HG> an empty cup sounds such a desolate place to be between refills. God continually refills my cup. the more i share it, the more He refills.

 

nope. why ..

ya know what.. like i said it's a silly analogy.. just skip it. we'll pretend it didn't happen. 

 


i believe there is some superbeing..whether or not this being is divine is unknown and irrelevant. he set the rules of physics into motion and created the universe, then basically went to take a nap.

HG> then it is proven that this superbeing came from where?

 

No idea. any more than we know where your god came from. 
personally i like the idea that he was of a race created in the last iteration of the universe, and he created this one so that creatures like himself would eventually evolve.  
there is no evidence of that, and i don't 'believe' it, i just like the idea.

 

any why did you throw in the word ' proven' ? i've not said anything is proven.  didn't even suggest it.

you're starting to take after bill gray to much, and putting words in peoples mouths. 

i like you. i don't agree with.. i think you are wildly wrong, but you seem sweet and sincere    - please pay attention and allow yourself to learn that bill gray is not doing god's work, he's doing bill's work. he doesn't care anything about god, he only cares about trying to prove people wrong, condemning them, attempting to make fun of them, and making his own name stand out. along with the westboro baptist freaks, bill and people like him are the greatest danger the christian faith has faced since since the roman colosseum. 

 

 

 

 

 

HG> what is our reason for being here? and where is 'there'? If you have scientific proof that there is an 'end goal', a 'there', what and where would that be? 

 

where did i say i had proof? i never said that.

i have no idea what our purpose here is. i don't pretend to. eventually, some far distant day after we have long been dirt, science will be able to answer that question. 
but religion never will, because they are stagnant, and want to stop the advance of a science which will eventually be able to prove them wrong. 



HG> He isn't hidden and undetectable to those who believe in Him. He is very visible in every aspect of my earthly life, starting with the first breath He gave me, til the last.

 

oh really? 

evidence please. 
i used to believe with the same conviction you do. i used to KNOW god gave me signs and instructions.

and now, older, wiser, more educated, i KNOW i was just misleading myself, seeing signs and proof of god because i wanted to see them.

if you want something to be true badly enough, you have no problem convincing yourself that it is true, even in the face of cold hard reality.

 

if the god of the christian bible is real, and he wants me to believe, he knows what it will take to convince me. he knows i am not capable of believing something that outlandish without a reason. i can say ' oh lawdy, i seed the light! i believes!!!!" all day long, but it wouldn't make it the truth. 
you can't just decide  to believe something. you can SAY you do, but it's hogwash.

 

you believe, because you want it to be true.. and have fooled yourself into seeing signs and portents and proof where there is none. doesn't matter what i say, you'll still think it's proof. 

there's a book.. fantasy fiction, by terry goodkind called Wizards first rule.
the story itself is fiction, but he brings up a couple of hard truths, true in his fictional world, and true in this one. the first rules of the wizards explains every simply why people believe in the christian god.


"Wizard's First Rule: people are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.
"Because of Wizards First Rule, the old wizards created Confessors, and Seekers, as a means of helping find the truth, when the truth is important enough. People need an enemy to feel a sense of purpose. It's easy to lead people when they have a sense of purpose. Sense of purpose is more important by far than the truth. In fact, truth has no bearing in this. People are stupid; they want to believe, so they do."

 

 

 

Originally Posted by The Nagel:
Originally Posted by thehippiegirl is gone.:
 

 

The Nagel> trust me. my ' cup' is empty. dumped it out myself, and then flushed.

HG> an empty cup sounds such a desolate place to be between refills. God continually refills my cup. the more i share it, the more He refills.

 

nope. why ..

ya know what.. like i said it's a silly analogy.. just skip it. we'll pretend it didn't happen. 

 


i believe there is some superbeing..whether or not this being is divine is unknown and irrelevant. he set the rules of physics into motion and created the universe, then basically went to take a nap.

HG> then it is proven that this superbeing came from where?

 

No idea. any more than we know where your god came from. 
personally i like the idea that he was of a race created in the last iteration of the universe, and he created this one so that creatures like himself would eventually evolve.  
there is no evidence of that, and i don't 'believe' it, i just like the idea.

 

any why did you throw in the word ' proven' ? i've not said anything is proven.  didn't even suggest it.

you're starting to take after bill gray to much, and putting words in peoples mouths. 

i like you. i don't agree with.. i think you are wildly wrong, but you seem sweet and sincere    - please pay attention and allow yourself to learn that bill gray is not doing god's work, he's doing bill's work. he doesn't care anything about god, he only cares about trying to prove people wrong, condemning them, attempting to make fun of them, and making his own name stand out. along with the westboro baptist freaks, bill and people like him are the greatest danger the christian faith has faced since since the roman colosseum. 

 

 

 

 

 

HG> what is our reason for being here? and where is 'there'? If you have scientific proof that there is an 'end goal', a 'there', what and where would that be? 

 

where did i say i had proof? i never said that.

i have no idea what our purpose here is. i don't pretend to. eventually, some far distant day after we have long been dirt, science will be able to answer that question. 
but religion never will, because they are stagnant, and want to stop the advance of a science which will eventually be able to prove them wrong. 



HG> He isn't hidden and undetectable to those who believe in Him. He is very visible in every aspect of my earthly life, starting with the first breath He gave me, til the last.

 

oh really? 

evidence please. 
i used to believe with the same conviction you do. i used to KNOW god gave me signs and instructions.

and now, older, wiser, more educated, i KNOW i was just misleading myself, seeing signs and proof of god because i wanted to see them.

if you want something to be true badly enough, you have no problem convincing yourself that it is true, even in the face of cold hard reality.

 

if the god of the christian bible is real, and he wants me to believe, he knows what it will take to convince me. he knows i am not capable of believing something that outlandish without a reason. i can say ' oh lawdy, i seed the light! i believes!!!!" all day long, but it wouldn't make it the truth. 
you can't just decide  to believe something. you can SAY you do, but it's hogwash.

 

you believe, because you want it to be true.. and have fooled yourself into seeing signs and portents and proof where there is none. doesn't matter what i say, you'll still think it's proof. 

there's a book.. fantasy fiction, by terry goodkind called Wizards first rule.
the story itself is fiction, but he brings up a couple of hard truths, true in his fictional world, and true in this one. the first rules of the wizards explains every simply why people believe in the christian god.


"Wizard's First Rule: people are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.
"Because of Wizards First Rule, the old wizards created Confessors, and Seekers, as a means of helping find the truth, when the truth is important enough. People need an enemy to feel a sense of purpose. It's easy to lead people when they have a sense of purpose. Sense of purpose is more important by far than the truth. In fact, truth has no bearing in this. People are stupid; they want to believe, so they do."

 

hg> goodness, a lot to reply, but too late tonite to get it all done...

i'll just say i spoke about 'proof' because in an earlier post, i think you talked about science and all that stuff being proved. so i figured you only believed in things that could be proved.

enough for tonite, hg<><
 

 

 

Nagel> you're starting to take after bill gray to much, and putting words in peoples mouths..... 
i like you. i don't agree with.. i think you are wildly wrong, but you seem sweet and sincere    - please pay attention and allow yourself to learn that bill gray is not doing god's work, he's doing bill's work. he doesn't care anything about god, he only cares about trying to prove people wrong, condemning them, attempting to make fun of them, and making his own name stand out. along with the westboro baptist freaks, bill and people like him are the greatest danger the christian faith has faced since since the roman colosseum. 

 

hg> as i've said maannyy times...Mr Bill presents scripture in line with what my bible says. his personal comments are his own, as mine are mine, and yours are yours. sometimes i agree with personal comments on the forum, sometimes not. but my opinion doesn't matter, only God's. all that personal stuff will be handled between God and His audience of one. 

Blessings, hg<><

 

 

hi there! after reading this thread, it seems no one believes a teenager would actually browse these forums and state their opinions and stuff, well, your wrong!
@ the original post saying "come here and ask (or tell) us of your opinions on religion." i'll respond with, i dislike religion. Religion has done nothing but slow society down, and personally, i am very very very much against any group/religion/company that is against equal rights(as in gay marriage [i'm straight, but almost all my friends are bi/lesbian/gay]).
I find it very ignorant how people can say the bible means one thing, but when its proven wrong, magically means another thing, e.g. the earth is less than 10,000 years old, or the earth is the center of the universe. I also find it a bit funny how religious people believe god loves them, and that if your pray, the prayer will come true, yet when they get sick, they rely on medicine to get better, not god. Which goes on to my next point, religion kills, there are people that actually do believe in prayer, so they don't take medicine, or even worse, don't give their kids medicine and the kid ends up dead due to the parent's foolish beliefs.

Hi all,

 

I am sure that we all wondered how long it would take Fish to come back actively on the Religion Forum.   Now, we have our answer -- although he is not longer a Fish -- but, is now a Pooch!

 

Oh, well, whatever rings his bell!   Bless his little old heart!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

TwoGuys

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Last edited by Bill Gray

Hypocrite. You just welcomed someone to the forum and talked about being accused of alters.

 

Now you are engaging in the very same practice.

 

Not to mention, that with respect to the above mentioned poster, your first concern is "who are they", rather than their spiritual well being.

 

Forget answering my questions. Your actions have answered them.

 

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi all,

 

I am sure that we all wondered how long it would take Fish to come back actively on the Religion Forum.   Now, we have our answer -- although he is not longer a Fish -- but, is now a Pooch!

 

Oh, well, whatever rings his bell!   Bless his little old heart!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

_________________

#8 and of course #9.  Embrace the system, Bill.

Originally Posted by poochyena:

hi there! after reading this thread, it seems no one believes a teenager would actually browse these forums and state their opinions and stuff, well, your wrong!
@ the original post saying "come here and ask (or tell) us of your opinions on religion." i'll respond with, i dislike religion. Religion has done nothing but slow society down, and personally, i am very very very much against any group/religion/company that is against equal rights(as in gay marriage [i'm straight, but almost all my friends are bi/lesbian/gay]).
I find it very ignorant how people can say the bible means one thing, but when its proven wrong, magically means another thing, e.g. the earth is less than 10,000 years old, or the earth is the center of the universe. I also find it a bit funny how religious people believe god loves them, and that if your pray, the prayer will come true, yet when they get sick, they rely on medicine to get better, not god. Which goes on to my next point, religion kills, there are people that actually do believe in prayer, so they don't take medicine, or even worse, don't give their kids medicine and the kid ends up dead due to the parent's foolish beliefs.

Poochinator,

 

did you grow up in the Shoals area?

 

DF

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