http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07...m-in-911-museum.html
"For the past five years, the 17-foot-tall cross was displayed outside a nearby Catholic church. On Saturday it was moved again, to the site of the National September 11 Memorial and Museum, where it is to be in the permanent collection. But the move quickly provoked a lawsuit from American Atheists"
Replies sorted oldest to newest
And the Christisns respond with (taken from Fox News Facebook page)
Just as disturbing are the "Likes" that each comment received. And you folks wonder why we seem so disagreeable sometime.
Remember that 9/11 was a "faith-based initiative".
From the article:
“The challenged cross constitutes an unlawful attempt to promote a specific religion on governmental land,” the lawsuit charged.
David Silverman, the president of American Atheists, said the suit’s goal was either the removal of the cross or what he called “equal representation.”
“They can allow every religious position to put in a symbol of equal size and stature, or they can take it all out, but they don’t get to pick and choose,” Mr. Silverman said.
And if atheists could put a symbol in the museum, what would it be? Perhaps an atom, Mr. Silverman suggested, “because we’re all made out of atoms,” or maybe a depiction of a firefighter carrying a victim. “It would be about helping,” he said. “It would not be derogatory against any religion or anybody.”
Makes sense to me.
Of the 3000 or so people that died in the event, I wonder how many weren't Christian. In New York, in the financial trade center of the United States, I'm guessing many were Jewish. Will there be a Star of David next to the cross?
According to the Complaint, "Among the victims of the 9/11 Attack were, upon information and belief, 31 Muslim Americans, approximately 400-500 Jewish Americans, approximately 500 non-religious Americans, and an unknown number of Americans of other faiths." As such, Ground Zero should not be a memorial recognizing Christian victims in particular. As it exists on government-owned property and mostly funded by taxpayer money, the memorial/museum needs to either represent all of the victim's religious beliefs or none of them. To not do so is in violation the US (& NY) Constitution.
And the Christisns respond with (taken from Fox News Facebook page)
Just as disturbing are the "Likes" that each comment received. And you folks wonder why we seem so disagreeable sometime.
Many more Christians are posting equally vicious and hateful comments on the FOX News FB Page. Though they're being taken down almost as fast as they're being put up, they are being saved for posterity by friends of American Atheists who have quick trigger fingers for the "Screenshot" button.
This brings up an interesting point. In a week or two, that Facebook page will be clean swept of any threats or incitements to violence. If anyone goes back to read it, they'll see Christians and atheists arguing -- not always politely, but without threats. The words on the page will be gone. But for me and my fellow atheists, they will live on as long as we live.
Every day, we have to live with the knowledge that there really are people who wish we were dead. They hate us. They think we are evil hellspawns deserving of nothing better than crucifixion, torture, and death.
What's worse, we have to spend hours defending ourselves to the "Good Christians" who would never do that kind of thing, and think we're awful people for trying to paint Christians with such a broad brush. How dare we call attention to the hateful Christians! How dare we suggest that we're a hated minority and that Christians are responsible? The gall of it all!
And the thing is, day in and day out, we see the hate. We get it in our inboxes. We get it on Facebook. We feel the icy stares when we have the temerity to wear an atheist shirt in public. And then we get shouted down when we wonder aloud why all the supposedly "loving Christians" aren't standing beside us against those who they claim are "Not really True Christians."
Well I'm wondering aloud. WHERE ARE YOU? If there are so many good Christians out there who think we atheists are decent people and that we deserve equal treatment under the law, where are you? Why aren't you helping?
If there are so many of you who believe in separation of church and state, where are you? Why aren't you outvoting that tiny little minority of Christians who are misinterpreting God's word?
Why is it that all we ever see is the hate?
To put it another way, there are really only two possibilities. Either most Christians really are hateful and vicious towards atheists, or most Christians are silent when they should be shouting at the top of their lungs, denouncing these evil people and voting with their feet against anything that would further divide this country.
Here's an easy experiment. Off the top of your head, name five famous Christian leaders who are at the forefront of the battle to keep church and state separate and preserve rights for all Americans, Christian or not.
If you can't do it... it might be time to rethink the old adage that "most Christians are tolerant, accepting, and loving."
Just another example of the violence and bigotry Christianity foments.
DF
Those same "christians" and like minded are on forums including this one proclaiming how they love the lord with all their heart and soul, how they love the sinner but hate the sin, telling us what a loving lord he is and how atheists will go to hell for choosing to "turn our backs" on him. They're here and all over other forums bearing false witness against people they don't know just because they can't win a debate with an atheist. They resort to accusing atheists of being every rotten thing under the sun. You do have a christian that will call them on it sometimes but most fully agree with them, and they're the same as the ones hitting the "like" button. When atheists take the gloves off and go at it in plain simple language they're labeled bitter and hateful, and told they have awful lives, black hearts, no "soul". Read those posts and ones made in this forum about atheists and you can see who has the black hearts, the bitter hate filled lives and no soul.
B b b but the atheistic…they eat babies don’t they?
Idiot.
<--- (avatar description here)
Well we see what yours says 
Jimi, Please quit bragging about yourself there. Take a moment and actually look at the screen image copy below and what does it look like to you? Looks like you are saying that about yourself with that One word alone just to the right of your photo.
Uno ... Those comments were detestable and it just shows that in every group, yes even with Christians or professing Christians, there are people like that. Now I know you aren't one that does so, but are there not similar examples found with other groups, such as atheist, people in one political party or another, Muslims etc... making similar statements about people they hate or dislike other places online? Or are professing Christians (wait I don't know these commenters claimed to be Christian but maybe some or all did) guilty? Just curious.
One more thought. You said "Just as disturbing are the "Likes" that each comment received. And you folks wonder why we seem so disagreeable sometime." Are you trying to say someone here, one of us, would do something like that? I for one deplore and condemn it no matter if they are or are not Christians or say they are.
From the article:
“The challenged cross constitutes an unlawful attempt to promote a specific religion on governmental land,” the lawsuit charged.
David Silverman, the president of American Atheists, said the suit’s goal was either the removal of the cross or what he called “equal representation.”
“They can allow every religious position to put in a symbol of equal size and stature, or they can take it all out, but they don’t get to pick and choose,” Mr. Silverman said.
And if atheists could put a symbol in the museum, what would it be? Perhaps an atom, Mr. Silverman suggested, “because we’re all made out of atoms,” or maybe a depiction of a firefighter carrying a victim. “It would be about helping,” he said. “It would not be derogatory against any religion or anybody.”
Makes sense to me.
The sound of a fart makes sense to you and you would have to act like you was the authority on it old gal.
And the Christisns respond with (taken from Fox News Facebook page)
Just as disturbing are the "Likes" that each comment received. And you folks wonder why we seem so disagreeable sometime.
Many more Christians are posting equally vicious and hateful comments on the FOX News FB Page. Though they're being taken down almost as fast as they're being put up, they are being saved for posterity by friends of American Atheists who have quick trigger fingers for the "Screenshot" button.
This brings up an interesting point. In a week or two, that Facebook page will be clean swept of any threats or incitements to violence. If anyone goes back to read it, they'll see Christians and atheists arguing -- not always politely, but without threats. The words on the page will be gone. But for me and my fellow atheists, they will live on as long as we live.
Every day, we have to live with the knowledge that there really are people who wish we were dead. They hate us. They think we are evil hellspawns deserving of nothing better than crucifixion, torture, and death.
What's worse, we have to spend hours defending ourselves to the "Good Christians" who would never do that kind of thing, and think we're awful people for trying to paint Christians with such a broad brush. How dare we call attention to the hateful Christians! How dare we suggest that we're a hated minority and that Christians are responsible? The gall of it all!
And the thing is, day in and day out, we see the hate. We get it in our inboxes. We get it on Facebook. We feel the icy stares when we have the temerity to wear an atheist shirt in public. And then we get shouted down when we wonder aloud why all the supposedly "loving Christians" aren't standing beside us against those who they claim are "Not really True Christians."
Well I'm wondering aloud. WHERE ARE YOU? If there are so many good Christians out there who think we atheists are decent people and that we deserve equal treatment under the law, where are you? Why aren't you helping?
If there are so many of you who believe in separation of church and state, where are you? Why aren't you outvoting that tiny little minority of Christians who are misinterpreting God's word?
Why is it that all we ever see is the hate?
To put it another way, there are really only two possibilities. Either most Christians really are hateful and vicious towards atheists, or most Christians are silent when they should be shouting at the top of their lungs, denouncing these evil people and voting with their feet against anything that would further divide this country.
Here's an easy experiment. Off the top of your head, name five famous Christian leaders who are at the forefront of the battle to keep church and state separate and preserve rights for all Americans, Christian or not.
If you can't do it... it might be time to rethink the old adage that "most Christians are tolerant, accepting, and loving."
Oh weepy weepy crybaby you are always attacking us just to get your retarded fun.
Wont be so funny in the lake of fire.
Of the 3000 or so people that died in the event, I wonder how many weren't Christian. In New York, in the financial trade center of the United States, I'm guessing many were Jewish. Will there be a Star of David next to the cross?
Oh H E L L no! Can you imagine the public outcry?
Uno ... Those comments were detestable and it just shows that in every group, yes even with Christians or professing Christians, (.....) Are you trying to say someone here, one of us, would do something like that?
GB, you ARE one of those people. Just a couple of days ago, you painted atheists as being unhappy people who are mad at go and with black hearts or something to that effect.
Eye, splinter, beam, sir.
Uno ... Those comments were detestable and it just shows that in every group, yes even with Christians or professing Christians, (.....) Are you trying to say someone here, one of us, would do something like that?
GB, you ARE one of those people. Just a couple of days ago, you painted atheists as being unhappy people who are mad at go and with black hearts or something to that effect.
Eye, splinter, beam, sir.
Well Uno I'm glad that enough people can read my post on here to know you are totally wrong with that statement you make. There is a huge vast difference between statements that you (atheist) should be killed for the lawsuit and me making an observation that I believed some atheist on here post the very critical and demeaning way they do about other forum members they don't even know personally because they have some root core hatred of religion or Christianity inside. Uno you are one of those who have said in the past. Do you not remember this little post, to your credit?
I clearly do not "respect" your religion whatsoever. I will continue to attack it as the irrational, deluded, immoral, downright evil belief system that it so clearly is.
If I knew you personally, I MIGHT "respect" you as a person but I despise your religion. I hate what it has done to my country and individuals that are caught in its clutches and can't get out.
You are the perfect example of that. Your outright refusal to accept generally accepted scientific facts concerning reality are, to me, a severe character defect and mark you as a member of a great percentage of this country who are out to destroy education and supplant it with your deluded religion.
I never accused you of wanting to kill someone, which is what those comments that you posted of those who replied to the atheist said. They were advocating killing atheist and my post never did that nor did yours advocate killing Christians but your reply to me above say GB, you ARE one of those people. That's just plainly a lie. Atheist claim Christians JUDGE them harshly and aparently you took offense to my post saying that I believed some atheist post from a cold and unhappy heart. That is no different than you prejudging me. You made a judgment about me here and in that above post of yours I copied where you openly admitted if you knew me you might feel different. You make judgments about people based upon their association (in my case being a Christian) so you do no different. That is predjudice or allowing bias to make your decisions for you.
The reasons I said what I did about the heart is the rationale to explain why there are so many post, from atheist, that have to attack the person or the Christian. As you stated above you are going to allow your feelings about "my religion" (Christianity) to effect the way you feel about me or any other Christian. NO I'm not like those who wanted to KILL atheist because they filed a lawsuit. I also said what I did about the cold angry heat because there are some who allow their emotions to make their judgments for them and in turn criticize the forum member because of the way they feel about the beliefs or associations of those forum members.
I have strived to wonder why atheist, who do not believe in God and who obviously detest Christianity spend so much of their time and efforts in a forum that carries the name Religion. There was a new person to the forum ( Time2 ) the other day, I hope they come in today, who also thought it strange that, if I remember what they said right, that there was more atheist in a forum named for religion than there were people of religion. What explains that kind of obsession if not anger or hurt or being unhappy and wanting to take it out on others when so many post they then make are condemning in nature and demeaning of the other forum members just because they have Christian beliefs? Yet you wonder why I dare to connect the two.
Uno ... Those comments were detestable and it just shows that in every group, yes even with Christians or professing Christians, (.....) Are you trying to say someone here, one of us, would do something like that?
GB, you ARE one of those people. Just a couple of days ago, you painted atheists as being unhappy people who are mad at go and with black hearts or something to that effect.
Eye, splinter, beam, sir.
Uno, If you sincerely believe I am the same as people who with you or any other atheist to be killed then we have no more to discuss or talk about. I have already made it known that I felt there was a diminishing need for me to be here and that I was planning to exit the forum so you don't have to worry about it. For one there is no way a Christian that cares to discuss an aspect about Christianity or discuss the Bible or a scripture can do so without being accosted with replies criticizing them or their belief. I don't go into the forums dedicated to atheist because I don't care to read all the attacks on Christians and all the reasons why we Christians are so judgmental. I don't care reading people do the very things they accuse others of doing to them. This forum is very much mimicking those and since I don't care to hear people making unjust judgments about me and other Christians because of their own bias there is no reason for me to be here.
If you are not unhappy I apologize for feeling that you are. I, within my own mind, try and reason why someone would want to be somewhere they obviously don't have agreement with the people under that category. If it is not out of a genuine interest in the subject or desire to learn or ask a question then why spend so much time there? I listed several things, hard heart, unhappy, cold heart, angry, I don't know whatever but some reason has to be the motivation you and other atheist are here for it isn't to learn about religion for you all seem to say you already know too much about it. As for me there will be plenty who will know for sure why I don't post anymore, when I leave, and most will be wrong but that wont matter because it's what they convince themselves of that matters and no one, including myself, could convince them otherwise. So if you associate me with those who wish to kill atheist then there is nothing I can do to change your mind. It's sad to me though but as I said if you really believe what you typed then I suggest you ignore me and my post and I shall do the same to you.
I already have made the personal decision to ignore another atheist on here because of HER remarks to me and twisting my words around without any remorse of doing so. I saw there was no positive or fruitful dialog with her so I recommended she ignore me and I'm doing the same. If you honestly believe I want to kill atheist then I consider you the same for you posted what I typed about the cold hearts or unhappy people and then turned that into the same as wanting to kill atheist, which is exactly what the bulk of those comments you copied of people responding to the lawsuiit posted, then there is nothing I can do to reason with you anymore and therefore any future dialogs would be fruitless also. For your information I am not one of those people nor am I the condemning type Christian many of you say all of us are alike. I have never said that anyone personally was going to any particular fate. I have only said we all will face judgment one day. I have been falsely judged on here myself so I know what it is.
====================
Jimbo boy, as Thomas Pynchon pointed out your ignorance obviously has “rules of operation”.
"..It has contours and coherence" [ "consistence"] [ "arrangement of internal parts"]
Jammaboy,
Here’s the list of the top 15, as reported in the 2011 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches:
1. The Catholic Church, 68,503,456 members, up .57 percent.
2. Southern Baptist Convention,16,160,088 members, down.42 percent.
3. The United Methodist Church, 7,774,931 members, down1.01 percent.
4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6,058,907 members, up 1.42 percent.
5. The Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members, no updates.
6. National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc, 5,000,000 members, no updates.
7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 4,542,868 members, down1.96 percent.
8. National Baptist Convention of America, Inc., 3,500,000 members, no updates.
9. Assemblies of God, 2,914,669 members, up .52 percent.
10. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), 2,770,730 members, down 2.61 percent.
11. African Methodist Episcopal Church, 2,500,000 members, no updates.
11. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America, 2,500,000 members, no updates.
13. The Lutheran Church– Missouri Synod (LCMS), 2,312,111 members, down 1.08 percent.
14. The Episcopal Church, 2,006,343 members, down 2.48 percent.
15. Churches of Christ, 1,639,495 members, no membership updates reported.
.
I believe in 2012, church membership will start to increase again.
.
I believe that what you believe has no effect on reality.
I believe that what you believe has no effect on reality.
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I believe you could be dead wrong, Jimmaboy.
I believe you don't know the difference between affect and effect.
.
I believe that what you believe has no effect on reality.
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I believe you could be dead wrong, Jimmaboy.
I believe you don't know the difference between affect and effect.
.
Since I used the word "effect" correctly, what are you talking about, Invictusaboy?
I thought this one was interesting. Notice his name.
I believe that what you believe has no effect on reality.
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I believe you could be dead wrong, Jimmaboy.
I believe you don't know the difference between affect and effect.
.
Since I used the word "effect" correctly, what are you talking about, Invictusaboy?
----------------------------
Are you sure you did???
Since I used the word "effect" correctly, what are you talking about, Invictusaboy?
.
You are in the wrong jimi.
You are in the wrong jimi.
--------------------------------
Golly Gee Whizz jimi, I didn't realize.
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I thought this one was interesting. Notice his name.
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You can tell it's an atheist b, always blaming God and never the person.
.
It's not an atheist. Atheists don't blame a god for anything because they don't believe in a god. That would be like saying it's santa's fault you didn't get a bicycle for christmas. So the statement that atheists are always blaming god and not the person makes no sense.
It's not an atheist. Atheists don't blame a god for anything because they don't believe in a god. That would be like saying it's santa's fault you didn't get a bicycle for christmas. So the statement that atheists are always blaming god and not the person makes no sense.
Since it is on a newspaper forum, it doesn't have to make sense. Wouldn't that be against the rules? Especially on the religious forum, where nonsense is King.
It's not an atheist. Atheists don't blame a god for anything because they don't believe in a god. That would be like saying it's santa's fault you didn't get a bicycle for christmas. So the statement that atheists are always blaming god and not the person makes no sense.
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Thats not what nsns says.
NSNS says there's a god and he's responsible for bad things? Are you sure? Or is it like we say, if you believe there is a god, and as you tell us he is in control of everything, you believe he does all the good things and performs miracles, why don't you believe he does the bad things? On the one hand christians will say their god is "everywhere", his eye is even on the sparrow, then turn right around and say he can't be everywhere.
Another one that has been answered repeatedly. Why don't you stay up really late tonight and try to come up with some NEW questions whose answers you can reject?
It's not an atheist. Atheists don't blame a god for anything because they don't believe in a god. That would be like saying it's santa's fault you didn't get a bicycle for christmas. So the statement that atheists are always blaming god and not the person makes no sense.
Since it is on a newspaper forum, it doesn't have to make sense. Wouldn't that be against the rules? Especially on the religious forum, where nonsense is King.
Your the King of nonsense.
Uno ... Those comments were detestable and it just shows that in every group, yes even with Christians or professing Christians, (.....) Are you trying to say someone here, one of us, would do something like that?
GB, you ARE one of those people. Just a couple of days ago, you painted atheists as being unhappy people who are mad at go and with black hearts or something to that effect.
Eye, splinter, beam, sir.
I might be mad a God to if he made me a nasty old stupid person like you act like.
You can stiil seek him an be forgiven for being such a butt and keep yourself from going to Hell
Do you want to be in the same place with the Old atheist cow who spouts alot?
NSNS says there's a god and he's responsible for bad things? Are you sure? Or is it like we say, if you believe there is a god, and as you tell us he is in control of everything, you believe he does all the good things and performs miracles, why don't you believe he does the bad things? On the one hand christians will say their god is "everywhere", his eye is even on the sparrow, then turn right around and say he can't be everywhere.
Jenn, do you think ns would say theres a God? NO.
I can tell by what you just said that God doesn't want you to know the answers
just yet. He knows you have no use for them right now. maybe later.
As you can tell, no atheist around here has a clue of whats going on with God.
Jesus won't give them the answers until they know what they should
do with them.
