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First of all this is not a post about the Rapture or with regards to it. For years and years there have been people pointing to politicians saying this is the Antichrist or he could be the antichrist and yet it didn't happen or they didn't end up being that person. You have also, no doubt, heard it said that we are in the "last days" and that the current time is the time that Christ will return because "the times are right for it to be that time".

This is also not a post to say that "this is the time" but rather if there was ever a time that the whole world was looking for a Savior, so to say, we are coming upon that time fast. Look at Greece and the economic turmoil that is affecting the European countries with so many threatening to fail. Look at the condition of our own country as well as forecast that within a year or so that China itself will be in a similar economic situation. One would wonder what the Unified World Response would be if there was ONE individual that had "all the answers" was to step forward. Europe is where America is heading in that it's citizens are more and more dependent upon Government and it's leaders. Most every other country is structured where the people are dependent upon a Central Government and it's leadership and America is going more and more toward that direction. Given who the Antichrist is supposed to be and who he is to come as it is an interesting time that we live and at a time that has never quite existed before as it does today. That's all I'm saying.

Be as the Bereans ( Acts 17:11 )

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quote:
t is an interesting time that we live and at a time that has never quite existed before as it does today. That's all I'm saying.



No joke. No time has ever quite existed before as it does today.
No, indeed, many times have been much worse and some quite better for isolated locations and discrete periods of time.

Human nature is unchanged: this is a basic tenet of understanding history. We must accept this or trying to understand history is a ridiculous concept. Nearly every generation has thought that a previous Golden Age is lost and may never be restored.

If one wishes to play "The Signs Are Right," then more power to you. It is about as useful as listening to paint dry. Can one slow down, prevent or speed up any telos of divine origin? I daresay not. Therefore, as Marie Francois Arouet said, "Let us cultivate our gardens." You lot be happy dwelling on meandering cryptic texts while I am searching for decent half-decomposed horse manure for my tomatoes.
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Originally posted by Aude Sapere:
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Originally posted by GBRK:
It is an interesting time that we live and at a time that has never quite existed before as it does today. That's all I'm saying.
No joke. No time has ever quite existed before as it does today. No, indeed, many times have been much worse and some quite better for isolated locations and discrete periods of time.

Hi Neal/Aude,

What GBRK is telling us is that prophetically, until just 62 years ago -- neither the Rapture nor the Tribulation could have occurred. One of the gating factors in this happening was the return of the Israelites to their home nation. One thousand, five hundred, or even one hundred years ago -- this had not happened. In 1948, it did happen. So, yes, now the signs are right that the Lord could return to Rapture His church and then begin the Tribulation through which He will redeem the remnant of His chosen people, Israel.

I realize that many of the Liberal Theology churches teach Replacement Theology -- that the church, which began on the Day of Pentecost, has replaced Israel as the chosen people of God. However, for that to happen -- God would have to break His covenant with Abraham. And, my Friend, God does not break a covenant.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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in the last few Verses of Jeremiah 22nd Chapter the Bible talks about a man named Coniah, it is really talking about Jechoniah also called Jehoiakim and God had waited on israel to change and serve him 400 years and he finally got enough and sent Nebuchedrezzar King of Babylon and he took the isrealites captive and it says also that none of Coniahs (jechoniahs)seed would ever reign anymore sitting on the Throne of David in Judah, Jesus is in the Geaneology of Jechoniah and therefore he will never sit on the throne of David in Israel.

Jesus is sitting on The Throne of David now in Heaven and it will never leave there anymore.
Matt 1:11 and Josiah begat Jechoniah and his brethren, at the time of the carrying away to Babylon.
Matt 1:12 And after the carrying away to Babylon, Jechoniah begat Shealtiel; and Shealtiel begat Zerubbabel;
Matt 1:13 and Zerubbabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
Matt 1:14 and Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
Matt 1:15 and Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
Matt 1:16 and Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
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Originally posted by prince albert: In the last few Verses of Jeremiah 22nd Chapter, the Bible talks about a man named Coniah. It is really talking about Jechoniah, also called Jehoiakim. God had waited on Israel to change and serve Him 400 years. He finally got enough and sent Nebuchedrezzar, King of Babylon, and he took the Israelites captive, And, it says also that none of Coniah's (Jechoniah's) seed would ever reign anymore sitting on the Throne of David in Judah. Jesus is in the Genealogy of Jechoniah and therefore he will never sit on the throne of David in Israel.

Jesus is sitting on The Throne of David now in Heaven and it will never leave there anymore..

Hi Albert,

There are several problems with your explanation. First, there is no mention in the Bible of the throne of David being in heaven. Yet, there are numerous mentions and allusions to the throne of David being in Jerusalem.

Second, while it is true that no one from the line of Solomon could succeed to the throne of David; Jesus did not come through the line of Solomon; but through the line of Nathan, his brother -- as we see in Luke 3.

Luke 3:23-31, "When He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age, being, as was supposed, the son of Joseph, the son of Eli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Hesli, the son of Naggai, the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David."

From the web site: http://www.biblestudytools.com.../jeremiah-22-30.html

Here ended the race of kings of the house of David, until the King Messiah came; for though there were of his line that were governors of Judah, as Zerubbabel, yet not kings. Moreover, Jeconiah was the last of the house of David in the line of Solomon. Salathiel, of whom was Zerubbabel governor of Judah, was the son of Neri, who descended from Nathan the son of David; see ( Luke 3:29, Luke 3:31 ), compared with ( Matthew 1:12 )

2 Samuel 5:12-14, "And David realized that the LORD had established him as king over Israel, and that He had exalted his kingdom for the sake of His people Israel. Meanwhile David took more concubines and wives from Jerusalem, after he came from Hebron; and more sons and daughters were born to David. Now these are the names of those who were born to him in Jerusalem: Shammua, Shobab, Nathan, Solomon."

1 Chronicles 3:5, "These were born to him in Jerusalem: Shimea, Shobab, Nathan, and Solomon, four, by Bath-shua the daughter of Ammiel."

Now, the genealogy shown in Matthew 1 is a bit more sticky, for, as typical in the Bible, a person is often called a son, when he is in reality a grandson or even a great-grandson -- as we see in the explanation shown below:

Matthew 1:11-16, "Josiah became the father of Jeconiah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon. After the deportation to Babylon: Jeconiah became the father of Shealtiel, and Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel. Zerubbabel was the father of Abihud, Abihud the father of Eliakim, and Eliakim the father of Azor. Azor was the father of Zadok, Zadok the father of Achim, and Achim the father of Eliud. Eliud was the father of Eleazar, Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob. Jacob was the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah."

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From the web site: http://www.biblestudytools.com...le/matthew-1-12.html

Explanation of Matthew 1:12:

And after they were brought to Babylon: Not Jechonias, but the father of Jechonias, and the Jews.

Jechonias begat Salathiel: Not Jechonias mentioned in the former verse, but his son, called Jehoiachin, ( 2 Kings 24:6 2 Kings 24:8 ) and Coniah, (Jeremiah 22:24 Jeremiah 22:28 ) both which are rendered Jechonias by the Septuagint in ( 2 Chronicles 36:8 ) ( Jeremiah 22:24 ) and he is so called, (1 Chronicles 3:16 ). Abulpharagius calls him Junachir, and says he is the same who in Matthew is called Juchonia; and he asserts him to be the father of Daniel the Prophet. But here a considerable difficulty arises, how he can be said to beget Salathiel, called Shealtiel, (Haggai 1:1) when he was pronounced "childless", (Jeremiah 22:30) . To remove which, it may be observed, that the sentence pronounced may be considered with this tacit condition or proviso, if he repented not.

Now the Jews have a tradition that he did repent in prison, upon which the sentence was revoked; but there is no need to suppose this, though it is not an unreasonable supposition; for the sentence does not imply that he should have no children, but rather that he should, as will appear upon reading the whole; "thus saith the Lord, write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days; for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah."

Besides, the Hebrew word rendered "childless," which signifies "to make naked" or "bare" and so denotes not only such as have no children, or are bereft of them, but such as are by any providence stripped of the blessings of life, and are left bare, destitute, and unhappy, as Jechonias and his posterity were.

However, the Jews have no reason to find fault with our Evangelist, since Salathiel is expressly called Jechonias's son, (1 Chronicles 3:17) either he was his proper natural son, or, to use their way of speaking, "the son of the kingdom," that is, his heir and successor in the kingdom, as some have thought; since it looks as if he was the son of Neri, (Luke 3:27) though the chronicle of Jedidaeus of Alexandria, or Philo the Jew, says, that Jechonias was called Neri, because Ner, or the lamp of David, shined in him, which had been almost extinguished.

And Salathiel begat Zorobabel: This account perfectly agrees with many passages in the Old Testament, where Zorobabel is called the son of Shealtiel or Salathiel, ( Ezra 3:2 Ezra 5:2 ) ( 12:1 ) ( Haggai 1:1 Haggai 1:12 Haggai 1:14 ) ( Haggai 2:2 Haggai 2:23 ) which is sufficient to justify the Evangelist in this assertion. There is indeed a difficulty which as much presses the Jews as the Christians, and that is, that Zorobabel is reckoned as the son of Pedaiah, (1 Chronicles 3:19) for the solution of which a noted Jewish commentator observes, that:

"in Haggai, Zachariah, and Ezra, Zorobabel is called the son of Shealtiel, because he was his son's son; for Pedaiah was the son of Shealtiel, and Zorobabel the son of Pedaiah; and do not you observe (adds he) that in many places children's children are mentioned as children?''

No doubt there are many instances of this; but to me it seems that Pedaiah was not the son of Shealtiel, but his brother, (1 Chronicles 3:17 1 Chronicles 3:18) . And I greatly suspect that Shealtiel had no children of his own, since none are mentioned; and that he adopted his brother Pedaiah's son Zorobabel, and made him his heir and successor in the government of Judah. However, it is certain, as a genealogical writer among the Jews observes, that he was of the son's sons of Jechonias, king of Judah, from whom our Evangelist makes him to descend.

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So, yes, Albert -- Jesus indeed will sit upon the throne of David during His Millennial Reign, His Millennial Kingdom -- the Kingdom of God on earth -- for 1000 years. Then, He will take all believers into eternity to be with Him forevermore. Praise the Lord!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Originally posted by prince albert:
well Bill we will just have to agree to disagree about the thousnd year reign, but I won't go into a rage and tell you how sorry you are, so there.

Hi Albert,

And, that, my Friend -- is what makes us true Christian brothers -- that we can agree to sometimes disagree, without ever allowing it to divide us.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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