Originally posted by Sofa King:
#1, at risk of coming to Bill's defense on anything, the pre-trib most certainly is supported by scripture. Just not by your interpretation of it.
I don't support that silliness either but there are many who claim it. Who am I to deny their belief? The definition of faith is, after all, belief in the absence of evidence.
#2 ANYTHING can be supported by scripture. Example: What does the bible have to say about abortion? Everyone claims this as a religious stance but I see an astounding lack of scriptural support for the notion.
Point made and evident that Scripture is interpreted in many ways however, being a former student and advocate of the pre-tribulation position, I'm well aware of the arguments or scriptures used to attempt to point to a pre-tribulation rapture. Again I also am aware that many don't accept that there is a rapture at all and that to comes from their reading of scripture and their own interpretation.
Any advocate for the pre-tribulation position I encourage to write down the points for that position and the scriptures that are used to back up those points. Likewise, prayerfully, consider the scriptures and points that I have put forth regarding the Olivet Discourse compared side by side to Revelation 6. Also consider 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 & 5 studying the context and to whom the scripture is written. Last, and a point that I keep repeating, is regarding the Olivet Discourse. One has to answer or rationalize why Christ would leave out, all together, the Rapture of the Church in his laying out of end time events to the disciples who requested of him to know what will occur and when and how. With the Rapture being the "blessed hope" the hope of being raptured to be with Christ at his future coming it is inconceivable that Christ would completely remain mute regarding it. The Rapture was a very important topic to the churches and gentile believers or any believers and mentioned in Corinthians and 1 Thessalonians. I'm just asking prayerful consideration and re-reading the scriptures with regards to my statements that the pre-tribulation position not being scriptural I am saying it isn't based on a "literal" reading. In order to make it (pre-trib timing) fit then much scripture has to be regarded as figuratively and in many cases is just taken out of the context it's in so to make it fit a position.
I know my position is in a minority and often this is a very ultra contentious debate however I'm very certain that it's important to look at it in the light of scripture.
Just as I requested of Bill I'm more than willing to consider any scriptural reference to reinforce or back up a pre-tribulation rapture so respectfully if you could cite what scriptures you are thinking about and the point that they are supporting I would be more than happy to look at it and study it and respond in kind.
I do appreciate your response and even welcome it as well as Bill's even though I disagree. I think it's important though that every Christian know why they believe and what they believe and reconcile that themselves through their own studies. Likewise be able to eliminate all other or discount all other views and opinions.
One other request, IF I am incorrect in my application and interpretation of the scriptures I use then with regards to the Rapture, and also realizing that the scriptures work together and parallel each other I'd enjoy hearing. I'm well aware of the pre-trib scriptures but since scripture can and is interpreted differently by different people please expound upon the following:
1 Thessalonians 5:4 (who is this verse directed to? Who are the ones not in darkness that the day takes them as a thief in the night? Is this not the same "darkness" or "thief in the night" example as used prior to it in 1 Thessalonians 5:2?
Revelation 6 and the 6 seals (God's wrath?)
Matthew 24 with regards to the Pre-Trib timing of the Rapture. If it's not mentioned, by Christ, as part of "end times" then why would it not be?
Anywhere in Scripture that Christ, himself, specifically gives instructions on the timing of the Rapture.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 ... what is "the gathering together"