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if God did not select the books contained in the Bible. If holy scripture is

meant to guide us until the consummation of the world, and Jesus said  

"observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you."  

Then Jesus isn't going to start something as important as his Christian

Church without every book he deemed necessary. He can't and he didn't

choose the wrong books and expect his people to observe whatsoever he

commands us. The Holy Spirit closed the Bible exactly as it's found today.

 

What man does with it after that is between God and that man. How man

interprets the Bible to suit his own comfort zone and ignores the true and

obvious meaning is still between him and God. When man believes the

Holy Spirit isn't capable of delivering the correct and finished Bible, but

rather change the plans of God and distore the meaning of his word, then

that also will be left to Gods mercy.

 

All through history people of every kind have played god, challenged him 

and misused his friendship. No one has gotten away with it, nor will they ever.

 

 

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Hi Vic,

 

You say, "The Bible can't be the inspired word of God!"

 

God says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work"  (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

Now who are we to believe?

 

You are trying, my Friend.  VERY trying!   Bless you little old heart!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

 

You say, "The Bible can't be the inspired word of God!"

 

God says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work"  (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

Now who are we to believe?

 

You are trying, my Friend.  VERY trying!   Bless you little old heart!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

________________

God didn't say it, Paul did.  Convenient, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

 

You say, "The Bible can't be the inspired word of God!"

 

God says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work"  (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

Now who are we to believe?

 

You are trying, my Friend.  VERY trying!   Bless you little old heart!

**************************** 

You know billie-jiz, If you weren't so stupid you would've read the post

in the first place. Maybe you're just too old to think StraighT.

 

 

Hi Nathan,

 

The Bible, all 66 books, came from the Holy Spirit inspired writings of men in the Old Testament and in the New Testament.   This was God inspired and God guided.

 

When the Christian church began on the Day of Pentecost 33 AD, they had only the 39 books of the Old Testament Scripture -- and, guided by God, the apostles and disciples taught and wrote as He inspired and guided them.

 

About 312 AD, Constantine formed his Church of Rome, the precursor of today's Roman Catholic church.  And, because he removed all the persecution of the Christian church in the Roman Empire, that Church of Rome began to flourish.  

 

Yes, it is true that by the mid-300 AD period, most of the churches came under the jurisdiction of the Church of Rome, because of the protection given them by the emperor.  Yet, there were those who stayed clear of the Church of Rome.  For all practical purposes, the church which survived when the Day of Pentecost church was still hiding in caves -- was the Constantine blessed Church of Rome which was growing.

 

Yes, it is true that God used a council of this wayward church to establish the canon of His Bible.  But, can anyone doubt that the God, who inspired the writing of the books of the Bible -- was also big enough to guide the selection of the books He wanted included -- while using this error-ladened church as His tool?

 

As I have repeatedly said, when the Pope commissioned Jerome to translate Scripture into Latin for church use -- Jerome left out the apocrypha -- because they were not chosen as canonical at the council.  But, the Pope knew that most of the Roman Catholic doctrines and traditions were found ONLY in the apocrypha -- and not in Scripture.  For that reason, the Pope forced Jerome to include the apocrypha in the Latin Vulgate Bible.  Without the apocrypha -- there would be no Roman Catholic church.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Vic,

 

You say, "The Bible can't be the inspired word of God!"

 

God says, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work"  (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

Now who are we to believe?

 

You are trying, my Friend.  VERY trying!   Bless you little old heart!

**************************** 

You know billie-jiz, If you weren't so stupid you would've read the post

in the first place. Maybe you're just too old to think StraighT.

 

 

vic, are you saying the pope is not old?

Good evening Bill,

this statement is not accurate:  "When the Christian church began on the Day of Pentecost 33 AD, they had only the 39 books of the Old Testament Scripture -- and, guided by God, the apostles and disciples taught and wrote as He inspired and guided them."\

Actually, they had 46 books in the Old Testatement.  Jesus and the New Testament quote from those 46, the Septuagint, over 300 times.  it wasn't until AD 90 that the Palestinian Jews rejected 7 books, mainly because they did not have Aramaic versions of them.  However, version were found at Qumran in the 1940s, once again showing thatthe Catholic church decided correctly, guided by the Holy Spirit, in including all 46 books of the O.T. 

This next statement of yours is also erroneous:  "About 312 AD, Constantine formed his Church of Rome, the precursor of today's Roman Catholic church.  And, because he removed all the persecution of the Christian church in the Roman Empire, that Church of Rome began to flourish."

the Catholic church began at Pentacost.  It became legal to be Catholic in the Roman Empire in 313AD, with the Edict of Milan from Constantine.  You cannot re-write history to try and support your theology. 

 

I have repeatedly shown you that there is no Catholic doctrine based solely on the apocrypha.  It would be best if you stopped making such an erroneous statement. 

 

God bless!!

 

 

Originally Posted by Nathan Evans:

Good evening Bill,

this statement is not accurate:  "When the Christian church began on the Day of Pentecost 33 AD, they had only the 39 books of the Old Testament Scripture -- and, guided by God, the apostles and disciples taught and wrote as He inspired and guided them."\

Actually, they had 46 books in the Old Testatement.  Jesus and the New Testament quote from those 46, the Septuagint, over 300 times.  it wasn't until AD 90 that the Palestinian Jews rejected 7 books, mainly because they did not have Aramaic versions of them.  However, version were found at Qumran in the 1940s, once again showing thatthe Catholic church decided correctly, guided by the Holy Spirit, in including all 46 books of the O.T. 

This next statement of yours is also erroneous:  "About 312 AD, Constantine formed his Church of Rome, the precursor of today's Roman Catholic church.  And, because he removed all the persecution of the Christian church in the Roman Empire, that Church of Rome began to flourish."

the Catholic church began at Pentacost.  It became legal to be Catholic in the Roman Empire in 313AD, with the Edict of Milan from Constantine.  You cannot re-write history to try and support your theology. 

 

I have repeatedly shown you that there is no Catholic doctrine based solely on the apocrypha.  It would be best if you stopped making such an erroneous statement. 

 

God bless!!

 

****************

I've got a sawbuck says he doesn't stop, a liar is going to lie.

 

 

 

quote:   Originally Posted by Nathan Evans:
Actually, they had 46 books in the Old Testament.  Jesus and the New Testament quote from those 46, the Septuagint, over 300 times.

Hi Nathan,

 

Please give us an example of even one time Jesus quoted from the apocrypha.   I am not speaking of an allusion, nor of a similarity between something written in Scripture and something written in the apocrypha -- but a direct quote by Jesus to a passage in the apocrypha.

 

There are many direct quotes from the 39 books of the Old Testament -- but, none from the apocrypha.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Hi Nathan,

 

You tell me, "I have repeatedly shown you that there is no Catholic doctrine based solely on the apocrypha."

 

Actually, there are many.  Most of your Mariology doctrines, your doctrine of purgatory, and many others are found solely in the apocrypha.   I agree that the Vatican has made an effort to twist some Scripture to fit some of those -- but, this takes a lot of imagination, or a lot of closing your eyes, to even partially accept their teachings.

 

These and many others are not supported in Scripture at all.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote:   Originally Posted by vplee123:
Bill?  You cannot defend your own doctrines that are unbiblical.  Why don't you work on your house before casting stones.  Just a thought.  

Wow, VP,

 

That is really a convincing argument in favor of the apocrypha!   Anymore like that in your storeroom of Biblical literacy? 

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Not at all. You were asked to defend sola scriptura in view of several scriptures - you couldn't do it. Nothing to do with the apocrypha, Bill. Just your own inadequacies. As for me, I will work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I will pray for mercy because I am unworthy- I am a sinner. Not a forgiven sinner, because there are sins for which I have not repented. I strive to stay in Gods grace but I often fall flat. I would never dare assume I'm a "shoo-in" to heaven, because Jesus Himself tells us that "faith without works is dead".. You go on thinking you have all the answers and smart *** comebacks- no skin off my back- but when we are humble and contrite, we are more Christ like than when we are arrogant and snide.
quote:   Originally Posted by vplee123:
Not at all. You were asked to defend sola scriptura in view of several scriptures - you couldn't do it. Nothing to do with the apocrypha, Bill. Just your own inadequacies. As for me, I will work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I will pray for mercy because I am unworthy- I am a sinner. Not a forgiven sinner, because there are sins for which I have not repented. I strive to stay in Gods grace but I often fall flat. I would never dare assume I'm a "shoo-in" to heaven, because Jesus Himself tells us that "faith without works is dead".. You go on thinking you have all the answers and smart *** comebacks- no skin off my back- but when we are humble and contrite, we are more Christ like than when we are arrogant and snide.

Hi VP,

 

So, when Christ tells us, in John 19:30, "It is finished!" -- He was mistaken, right?  His work of salvation and redemption was not finished -- for you and the Pope have to finish it for Him?

 

Wow, that is pretty much what Reverend Sun Myung Moon taught in his Unification church -- that God sent him and his wife to finish the work of redemption that Jesus was not able to accomplish on the cross.   Sound familiar?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

No semi, we have to pray for him- remember, all of us are made in the image and likeliness of Christ. It's time to let go of our anger, don't "fuel the fire" when he writes antagonistic and "baiting" posts, and just simply stay quiet and pray that he will one day see that this is NOT how Jesus got people to follow him. Pray for wisdom, humility and love;-)

Good evening Bill,

you stated:  "So, when Christ tells us, in John 19:30, "It is finished!" -- He was mistaken, right?  His work of salvation and redemption was not finished -- for you and the Pope have to finish it for Him?"

 

His work was finished.  Our work is to persevere to the end.  OSAS is error.

 

God bless!!

Originally Posted by vplee123:
No semi, we have to pray for him- remember, all of us are made in the image and likeliness of Christ. It's time to let go of our anger, don't "fuel the fire" when he writes antagonistic and "baiting" posts, and just simply stay quiet and pray that he will one day see that this is NOT how Jesus got people to follow him. Pray for wisdom, humility and love;-)

_______

As you know, my dear friend, I don't believe in prayer. Do you believe that scripture I quoted does not fit Bill to a T?

Semi, yes that does describe him. But, like I said, I firmly believe that ones faith is known to God alone. He may be a terrible evangelizer, but I cannot question his devotion to Christ. I can condemn his treatment of people here, and I do. But as for inner faith??? Not for me to judge. Now- I know you say you don't believe in prayer- that's ok for right now. Know that others are praying for you, until the time or day arises in which you may open your heart again . Love you, dear friend!!

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