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150 years ago shots were fired on Fort Sumter starting what is now called the “Civil” War.

I find this era of history fascinating, not because of the various battles and military maneuvers, but because of the Constitutional and political issues surrounding the “event”.

I won’t go as far to say everything we know about the “Civil” War is wrong, but everything taught in schools is through a filter of bias. Almost everything from the politics, the causes, etc. is distorted by modern politics.

Even the name "Civil War" is misleading…what happened between 1861 – 1865 was not a “civil” war. The war wasn't about two sides fighting to run the central government as in the English or Roman civil wars. The South didn’t want to capture and take over Washington, DC. The South attempted a peaceful secession from federal control, no different from the original American struggle for independence from Britain.

The term Civil War is a misnomer. The South did not instigate a rebellion. Eleven southern states in 1860-61 simply chose to secede from the Union and go their own way, like the thirteen colonies did when they seceded from Britain.

The American War of 1861-1865 has been referred to by numerous different names:

The War of the Rebellion – the official US government name during the war.

The War of Insurrection – another popular “Yankee” name. Lincoln frequently referred to the “insurrection”.

The Civil War – the most well known and continuously used.

The War for Southern Independence or The War of Northern Aggression – mostly by Southerners.

War Between The States is often used

The first 3 names are inappropriate because the Confederate States of American (CSA) was a legally established government representing the interests of several sovereign states which had legally seceded from a voluntary union with several other sovereign states known as the United States of America. Secession from the USA was not “technically” made illegal until after the war.

The term “The War Between the States” is also incorrect since the war was fought between the CSA and the USA, not Virginia against New York.

A more accurate name for the war that took place between the northern and southern American states is the War for Southern Independence.

This term is seems to be correct and least “political”. Although it does imply the South started the war to gain independence…which it did not. The War of Northern Aggression may be technically correct but has that “political” bias to it.

Though I personally prefer “War For Southern Independence”, the most correct term would probably be “War To Prevent Southern Independence”. For if you believe in the principles of The Declaration of Independence…governments get their just powers by the consent of the governed…First the South seceded, which gave them independence. Then the North attacked to prevent this.

This discussion shouldn’t have anything to do with one's sympathy or bias, but rather very simple historical analysis. The war in question shouldn't be called "The Civil War" because it wasn't a civil war, but rather a war of secession, or independence — two completely different things. A “Civil” War means violence to control everything by a central government, while secession or independence, if allowed can take place peacefully.

If we can’t accurately label what happened between 1861 – 1865, how can we ever understand the complexities of the causes and ramifications of the aftermath?

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The Constitution. Every Issue, Every time. No Exceptions, No Excuses.

 

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."---Thomas Jefferson

 

"That's what governments are for... get in a man's way."---Mal Reynolds Capt. of Serenity, "Firefly-Class" spaceship

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quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
The "War to preserve the Union"?


This is actually a reasonable response...Both Lincoln and Congress announced publicly that their purpose was to "save the union"...matter of fact, in response to the "slavery was the ONLY issue"...Lincoln went as far as to say he didn't want to disturb slavery where it existed but "save the union".

This is the "Constitutional and political" issues that really interest me about the era.

All the states at the ratification of the Constitution understood that they were all becoming "parties to a compact"...a compact that could disolve if need be. Virginia, Maryland, and Rhode Island went as far as explicitly saying when they ratified the Constitution, that they reserved the right to take back what ever powers were being delegated the the federal authority.

The 9th and especially 10th amendment make this crystal clear.

So saying Lincoln was trying to "save the union" is a reasonable response...but in reality he destroyed the union as the founders knew it. A union that was voluntaryin 1788 became one forced by violence under Lincoln.

The free and independent states that were recognized in the treaty that ended the Revolutionary war and voluntarily joined together for specific purposes were abolished by 1865. ALL states, North and South, ceased being true, free, and independent "states" and become nothing more than provinces after 1865.

So Lincoln actually destroyed the union.
History is the best teacher and facts are the best evidence:

<<
For example, Democrat U. S. Senator Alfred Iverson of Georgia bluntly told his peers:

I may safely say, however, that nothing will satisfy them [the seceded states] or bring them back short of a full and explicit recognition and guarantee of the safety of their institution of domestic slavery. 23
Democrat U. S. Senator Robert Toombs of Georgia (soon to become the Secretary of State for the Confederacy, and then a general in the Confederate Army) declared that the seceded South would return to the Union only if their pro-slavery demands were agreed to:

What do these Rebels demand? First, that the people of the United States shall have an equal right to emigrate and settle in the present or an future acquired territories with whatever property they may possess (including slaves). . . . The second proposition is that property in slaves shall be entitled to the same protection from the government of the United States, in all of its departments, everywhere, which the Constitution confers the power upon it to extend to any other property. . . . We demand in the next place . . . that a fugitive slave shall be surrendered under the provisions of the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 without being entitled either to a writ of habeas corpus or trial by jury or other similar obstructions of legislation. . . . Slaves – black “people,” you say – are entitled to trial by jury. . . . You seek to outlaw $4,000,000,000 of property [slaves] of our people in the territories of the United States. Is not that a cause of war? . . . My distinguished friend from Mississippi [Mr. Jefferson Davis], another moderate gentleman like myself, proposed simply to get a recognition that we had the right to our own – that man could have property in man – and it met with the unanimous refusal even of the most moderate, Union-saving, compromising portion of the Republican party. . . . Mr. Lincoln thus accepts every cardinal principle of the Abolitionists; yet he ignorantly puts his authority for abolition upon the Declaration of Independence, which was never made any part of the public law of the United States. . . . Very well; you not only want to break down our constitutional rights – you not only want to upturn our social system – your people not only steal our slaves and make them freemen to vote against us – but you seek to bring an inferior race into a condition of equality, socially and politically, with our own people. 24 (emphasis added)
Democrat U. S. Senator Clement Clay of Alabama (soon to become a foreign diplomat for the Confederacy) also expounded the same points:

Not a decade, nor scarce a lustrum [five year period], has elapsed since [America’s] birth that has not been strongly marked by proofs of the growth and power of that anti-slavery spirit of the northern people which seeks the overthrow of that domestic institution [slavery] of the South, which is not only the chief source of her prosperity but the very basis of her social order and state polity. . . . No sentiment is more insulting or more hostile to our domestic tranquility, to our social order, and our social existence, than is contained in the declaration that our Negroes are entitled to liberty and equality with the white man. . . . To crown the climax of insult to our feelings and menace of our rights, this party nominated to the presidency a man who not only endorses the platform but promises in his zealous support of its principles to disregard the judgment of your courts [i.e., Lincoln had indicated that he would ignore the Supreme Court’s egregious Dred Scott decision], the obligations of your Constitution, and the requirements of his official oath, by approving any bill prohibiting slavery in the territories of the United States. 25
Democrat U. S. Senator John Slidell of Louisiana (soon to be a Confederate diplomat to France and Great Britain), echoed the same grievances:

We all consider the election of Mr. Lincoln, with his well-known antecedents and avowed [anti-slavery] principles and purposes . . . as conclusive evidence of the determined hostility of the Northern masses to our institutions. We believe that he conscientiously entertains the opinions which he has so often and so explicitly declared, and that having been elected on the [anti-slavery] issues thus presented, he will honestly endeavor to carry them into execution. While now [as a result of secession] we have no fears of servile insurrection [i.e. a slave revolt], even of a partial character, we know that his inauguration as President of the United States, with our assent, would have been considered by many of our slaves as the day of their emancipation. 26
Democrat U. S. House Representative William Yancey (who became a Confederate diplomat to Europe and then a Confederate Senator) similarly complained:

[The North is] united in pronouncing slavery a political and social evil. . . . There exists but one party that, either in spirit or sentiment, manifests any disposition to stand by the South and the Constitution, and that is the Democratic Party. . . . The institution of slavery. . . . exists for the benefit of the South and is its chief source of wealth and power; and now in the hour of its peril – assailed by the great Northern antagonistic force [the Republicans and abolitionists] – it must look to the South alone for protection. . . . The question then, naturally arises, what protection have we against the arbitrary course of the Northern majority? . . . The answer is . . . withdraw from it [i.e., secede]! 27
Perhaps the no-holds-barred pro-slavery position of Democrats and southern states was best summarized by Democrat U. S. Senator Judah P. Benjamin of Louisiana (who became the first Attorney General of the Confederacy, then its Secretary of War, and finally its Secretary of State), who declared:

I never have admitted any power in Congress to prohibit slavery in the territories anywhere, upon any occasion, or at any time.28 (emphasis added)
Once the South seceded and organized its Confederate government, it immediately sought official diplomatic recognition from Great Britain and France, wrongly believing that by halting the export of Southern cotton into those nations they could strong-arm them into an official recognition of the Confederacy. But Great Britain and Europe already held large stores of cotton in reserve and also had access to textile imports from other nations, so the poorly conceived Confederate plan was unsuccessful.

France had been willing to extend official recognition to the Confederacy but would not do so unless Great Britain did the same. But Charles Francis Adams (U. S. Minister to England, and the son of John Quincy Adams and grandson of John Adams) rallied anti-slavery forces in Europe and England to successfully lobby Great Britain not to extend official recognition to the Confederacy. Those early diplomatic successes by the Union were bolstered by President Lincoln’s 1862 announcement of the Emancipation Proclamation freeing slaves in the American states in rebellion – an act very popular among working-class Britons. By October 1863, the Confederacy, not having received the official support it so badly needed, expelled British representatives from southern states.

Although Great Britain never extended official recognition, she did indirectly assist the South in many ways, including supplying the Confederacy with naval cruisers that pillaged Union merchant shipping and also providing weapons to southern troops, including the Whitworth rifle (considered one of the most accurate rifles in the Civil War). A number of Britons even crossed the ocean to serve in the Confederate Army; and in some British ranks, the sympathy for the Confederacy was so strong that after popular Confederate General Stonewall Jackson was accidentally shot down by his own troops, the mourning was just as visible in parts of England as it had been throughout the Confederacy. Some in the British press even likened the death of Jackson to that of their own national hero, Lord Nelson; and a British monument to General Jackson was even commissioned, paid for, and transported to Richmond, Virginia by Confederate sympathizers in Great Britain.

Christian leaders in France – seeing Britain’s unofficial support for the slave-holding Confederacy – dispatched a fiery letter to British clergy, strongly urging them to oppose every British effort to help the Confederacy. As the French clergy explained:

No more revolting spectacle has ever been before the civilized world than a Confederacy – consisting mainly of Protestants – forming itself and demanding independence, in the nineteenth century of the Christian era, with a professed design of maintaining and propagating slavery. The triumph of such a cause would put back the progress of Christian civilization and of humanity a whole century. 29
Foreign observers clearly saw what southern Democrat U. S. Representatives and Senators in Congress had already announced: the Civil War was the result of the South’s desire to perpetuate slavery.>>>

<<That speech was entitled “African Slavery: The Corner-Stone of the Southern Confederacy.” In it, Stephens first acknowledged that the Founding Fathers – even those from the South – had never intended for slavery to remain in America:

'The prevailing ideas entertained by him [Thomas Jefferson] and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature – that it was wrong in principle – socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent [temporary] and pass away.'

What did Vice-President Stephens and the new Confederate nation think about these anti-slavery ideas of the Founding Fathers?

'Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. . . . and the idea of a government built upon it. . . . Our new government [the Confederate States of America] is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid – its cornerstone rests – upon the great truth that the Negro is not equal to the white man. That slavery – subordination to the superior [white] race – is his natural and moral condition. This – our new [Confederate] government – is the first in the history of the world based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.' (emphasis added)
Notice that by the title (as well as the content) of his speech, Confederate Vice-President Stephens affirmed that slavery was the central issue distinguishing the Confederacy.

It was SLAVERY, folks, no getting around it!

From: http://www.wallbuilders.com/LI...esArticles.asp?id=92[/QUOTE]
Last edited by beternU
quote:
Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
quote:
sez beteru: It was SLAVERY, folks, no getting around it!


I don't really thing you are this ignorant...just stubborn?


How about showing some skill in argumentation by addressing the points I made, including the quotes from historical sources? I have posted the sentiments expressed by influential figures in the thick of secession, all of whom attributed that course of action to the conflict over slavery. It would seem to me that the stubborness here lies in the rejection of this reality by you and other revisionists who just won't open your eyes and see the light!
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
quote:
sez beteru: It was SLAVERY, folks, no getting around it!


I don't really thing you are this ignorant...just stubborn?


How about showing some skill in argumentation by addressing the points I made, including the quotes from historical sources? I have posted the sentiments expressed by influential figures in the thick of secession, all of whom attributed that course of action to the conflict over slavery. It would seem to me that the stubborness here lies in the rejection of this reality by you and other revisionists who just won't open your eyes and see the light!


You're in the wrong thread...seems the causes are being debated in the other thread...this one is about the Civil War not really being a true "civil" war.

As to your points...they have been responded to several times in the other thread...you are not giving reasons FOR THE WAR...but reasons FOR SECESSION.

Two different things.

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