It no longer matters to me, which is why I kinda quit doing much posting on this forum. Either you are bright enough to look at long term consequences of political policies, or you aren't ; either you vote for your economic best interest , or you don't . Whatever !
Personally, I will do ok, but if this country  keeps believing the lie that the Republicans are putting out (and as we can see, they put it out !!!!!!!), or you will look at history with an open mind and see which policies help or hurt the average person, which ones favor the uber rich at the expense of every one else.

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Your thinking depends on there even being a country left after a few years, but let's play along. First, what jobs will there be in your idea of a utopia? Will all jobs pay the same wages? Will the ditch digger be happy with his pay knowing the guy that mostly stands around taking orders is making the same wage?

If people are allowed to make more than others who decides who makes more based on what? How will you take from the rich to give to everyone else? Who revolts against who? Who decides who's rich? The guy making five bucks more an hour than you can be considered richer. Do we go after the union people who make more than we make? Do we go after actors, actresses, sports figures and put a cap on their earnings? Just who will we target? Will we still allow people from other countries to come in and take those 'equal paying' jobs?

Will business owners, who put everything on the line to start businesses, and have to pay insurances, fees, all sorts of things to run those businesses, be able to profit? How? How much of the "pie" would they be able to keep. Just who's economic best interest are you speaking of and when will the democrats care more about all the people born and raised in the country than others flooding in?

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everybody needs to watch this video documentary at least once . Hopefully most of us have an attention span of at least 6.5 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krwdJ6DyafQ

I have seen it before.

That still doesn't mean that you can't be in the top 10%, 5%, or 1% working for someone else. 

The real gap comes from the 1% to the .1%. 

You will never be in the top .1% unless you inherit, start your own business, or invest in someone else's startup business. 

Didn’t take long for Marxism to show its ugly head in that video of seeweeds.

That was depressing as all get out.  I don't blame the CEO for taking the obscene salary and stock options, I blame the board of directors for giving it to him.  

Why is it only in America that the CEO's get 300 times what the average worker gets?  The rest of the world pays them 12 to 15 times.  I guess it's Obama's fault, everything else is.

Lebron James salary from the Heat was $19m last year. The highest paid professional basketball player in Europe made $7.8m.

We pay more for top performers in America than other parts of the world, IMO. 

Jt, how much of that $30.00 an hour you made/make do you gladly, no questions asked, give to millionaires to see them play sports or act in movies, sing, etc? How much do you give to drink the wines, beers, sodas, whiskeys etc of millionaires? How many of the ones wanting the revolution gladly hand over their money for tobacco products to millionaires? How many are begging to make more millionaires out of dope peddlers?

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Since Dodd-Frank, shareholders have final approval. One pf the few things in the law I agree with.  Once more many nations including Japan and much of the EU provide extremely generous expense accounts for CEOs and upper management, not taxable.  That used to be the situation in the US, until the tax rates came down.

Jt, how much of that $30.00 an hour you made/make do you gladly, no questions asked, give to millionaires to see them play sports or act in movies, sing, etc? How much do you give to drink the wines, beers, sodas, whiskeys etc of millionaires? How many of the ones wanting the revolution gladly hand over their money for tobacco products to millionaires? How many are begging to make more millionaires out of dope peddlers?

Lebron James salary from the Heat was $19m last year. The highest paid professional basketball player in Europe made $7.8m.

I have never been to a professional basketball game or football game.  The last time I went to a professional baseball game was about 1974.

The last time I went to see a star sing, I paid $5.00 for a ticket and went to see Elvis Presley.

I suppose I drink the beer made by a millionaires brewery.

Now, Kenny and Best,  what has all that got to do with american CEO's making 300 times the average worker and the rest of the world pays 11 to 15 times the average? I suppose, in your minds, that justifies the obscene pay.

By the way, there is a soccer player that made 80 million last year and he plays in a foreign country, not the USA.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/fo...s-than-elsewhere-no/

Do CEOs Make Much More In The U.S. Than Elsewhere?

This article is by Pedro Matos, an associate professor of business administration at the University of Virginia‘s Darden School of Business.

There has been a good deal of press coverage of the numbers of zeros in the paychecks of American chief executives. Many people, especially workers who have faced stagnant or lower wages in a tough economy, believe U.S. CEOs take home too much. This perception is usually supported with estimates by firms like Towers Watson, which conduct surveys showing that CEOs in the U.S. earn much more than their counterparts abroad. But is it true?

The difficulty in answering this question has come from a lack of good data on executive compensation across countries. But thanks to recently expanded disclosure rules, my co-authors and I were able to analyze data from more than 3,000 businesses across the U.S. and 13 other countries (mostly in Europe). In a recent paperwe showed that the conventional wisdom that U.S. CEO pay is out-of-sync with the rest of the world is inaccurate or, at least, outdated.

A first cut of the data indicates that U.S. CEOs are paid twice as much as their international counterparts.  But that is really comparing apples to oranges, for U.S. firms operate differently from their international counterparts, particularly in terms of corporate governance. After controlling for firm size, ownership, and board structure, all characteristics that often differ between U.S and international companies, the gap is reduced, with U.S. executives earning only a 26% premium. And when the analysis adjusts for the greater use of stock options and share awards in the U.S., the pay premium is reduced to an economically modest 14%. Maybe that would be a nice raise for a European CEO, but it’s not likely enough to induce him to cross the Atlantic and emigrate to the U.S.

U.S. firms lean toward higher institutional ownership and more independent boards. Typically this leads to a larger fraction of total compensation being awarded in the form of stock options and restricted shares. These equity payments only materialize in the following years if the executive delivers value to shareholders. Share ownership by families, the state, banks, or large investors is more prevalent in companies outside the U.S., and the presence of a large block-holder is associated with lower pay and reduced use of equity-based compensation. International CEOs may need less incentives because they have direct ownership as family members, or because the block-holder is heavily involved with day-to-day management.

So, some of the historic pay gap is due to these structural differences. Traditionally, international CEOs’ take-home pay is cash in hand rather than equity-linked. Although in the U.S. ownership is usually dispersed among many shareholders, institutional investors have been taking an increasing role. It’s a sign of good corporate governance when firms are monitored closely by institutional owners as well as independent board members. They tend to push to have CEO pay tied to shareholder performance. And that helps keep U.S. CEO pay from being excessive.

In other words, the world is flat for CEOs, or almost so. Our study finds that there is no huge difference in CEO pay among companies, regardless of their locations, if they compete in international markets. More and more, non-U.S. firms vie for the same capital, customers and talent as U.S. ones that operate globally. Companies looking to recruit executives in competition with equivalent U.S. firms are offering packages that are on par with U.S. standards.

 

 

CEOs Who Make One Dollar A Year

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Getty Images

Now, Kenny and Best,  what has all that got to do with american CEO's making 300 times the average worker and the rest of the world pays 11 to 15 times the average? I suppose, in your minds, that justifies the obscene pay.

By the way, there is a soccer player that made 80 million last year and he plays in a foreign country, not the USA.

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So you don't watch TV, rent, buy, or go to movies, buy CDs, buy games or gaming systems for yourself, your children or grandchildren, pay for internet, buy a computer, you don't eat out, you don't do anything that would benefit a millionaire? Ever bought a new car? Remember, none of those are necessities. Wonder why I don't believe you don't do those things. Why does it bother YOU what a CEO makes?  Again, you did pretty good and have admitted YOU wouldn't have taken a cut to make it possible for someone else to be hired, why do you expect others to do the same? And though you claim you don't buy or do any of those things, you don't have anything to say about people who do, or the ones making those millions. They're entitled to those millions, CEOs aren't? Explain the difference.

So you don't watch TV, rent, buy, or go to movies, buy CDs, buy games or gaming systems for yourself, your children or grandchildren, pay for internet, buy a computer, you don't eat out, you don't do anything that would benefit a millionaire? Ever bought a new car? Remember, none of those are necessities. Wonder why I don't believe you don't do those things. Why does it bother YOU what a CEO makes?  Again, you did pretty good and have admitted YOU wouldn't have taken a cut to make it possible for someone else to be hired, why do you expect others to do the same? And though you claim you don't buy or do any of those things, you don't have anything to say about people who do, or the ones making those millions. They're entitled to those millions, CEOs aren't? Explain the difference.

When Dalmer  bought chrysler, their top guy made 5 million dollars. He ran it good enough to be able to buy Chrysler.  The top guy at Chrysler made 15 million. He ran it bad enough to cause it to be sold to Dalmer.The German was worth that much, the Chrysler guy was not worth 15 million.

You added a lot of things to your list. Yes I do and use some of those things. No it doesn't bother me to buy from a  millionaire.

No, I did not offer to work at a lower rate.  I did not have that choice, the rate was set and that was that. If I wanted to, now, I could go to the Dakotas and more than double that rate. I just don't want to go there.

Kenny, what did that article have other than empty words. It did tell of a man who is worth 39 Billion and makes one dollar a year.  I suppose that is plus many millions in dividends which are taxed at 15%

You added a lot of things to your list. Yes I do and use some of those things. No it doesn't bother me to buy from a  millionaire.

No, I did not offer to work at a lower rate.  I did not have that choice, the rate was set and that was that. If I wanted to, now, I could go to the Dakotas and more than double that rate. I just don't want to go there.

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The added things were the etcs. Yes, you had a choice. You could have spoken up, taken a stand, and said you were paid enough already, give some needy person a job. You didn't,  you wouldn't, yet you still think others should. If it doesn't bother you to deal with millionaires, you need to shut up about them. You're part of the problem you have with the rich.

Can you not read?

It says that your whole argument about US CEOs being paid 300x more than CEOs from other countries is not true.

The added things were the etcs. Yes, you had a choice. You could have spoken up, taken a stand, and said you were paid enough already, give some needy person a job. You didn't,  you wouldn't, yet you still think others should. If it doesn't bother you to deal with millionaires, you need to shut up about them. You're part of the problem you have with the rich.

Best, I worked under a contract. My choice was take it or leave it. What could I have spoken up about? What would I take a stand on? I couldn't hire a "needy" person. I don't need to shut up about CEO's drawing multimillion dollar packages when they get fired for ruining a company. You need to open your eyes to the damage they are doing to our nation.

Kenny, I can read. All I saw was words and not numbers

Failure to interpret words into logical fact based conclusions is a sign of some types of dyslexia.  I think I see a problem in search of a solution.

Best, I worked under a contract. My choice was take it or leave it. What could I have spoken up about? What would I take a stand on? I couldn't hire a "needy" person. I don't need to shut up about CEO's drawing multimillion dollar packages when they get fired for ruining a company. You need to open your eyes to the damage they are doing to our nation.

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You've always had the ability to speak up. You could have spoken up at anytime and said you'd take less if it meant someone else could have a job, but you have already said you wouldn't have done it. What damage do the CEOs cause, be specific.  And again, why were you entitled to your salary but others aren't? My point, that you are missing, or most likely just ignoring, is that you are willing to speak up about other people's salaries and say what you think should happen, but you don't want to hear that in other's opinion YOU were over paid and that people should speak up about that. If you don't like millionaires, stop making them rich with things you could do without. Stop using companies that use illegals. But, keep in mind, there are always going to be rich people. If they can't make it here they will go where they can make it.

You could have spoken up at anytime and said you'd take less if it meant someone else could have a job.

How many times do I have to say, "I did not have that option".  My pay rate was set by a contract. It was not in my power to take more or less. All people in my classification made the same rate. I could have quit the job, and have quit jobs, but never to make the company pay me more or less. 

You tell me why a failing CEO deserves a 10 or 20 milliion dollar package, especially if he or she is getting fired. Explain that

Stop using companies that use illegals. But, keep in mind, there are always going to be rich people. 

That is a great idea to not use companies that use illegals.  I don't think I do.  And I don't mind anyone earning a good living. I just don't think the CEO deserves 300 times what the average worker gets.

How many times do I have to say that nothing kept you from speaking up? What does it matter how your pay is set? The cost of most anything is set, how does that stop anyone from speaking up? You made the statement that in the US people could speak up, now you say you couldn't. Why does the CEO deserve money if he's being fired? Because the one that hired him signed a contract agreeing to pay that. The same as the contact you signed. Would you be OK if they decided to take away what they had contacted to pay YOU? We all know that answer. You are still avoiding the question-how is CEO pay causing damage? And, your answering a question with one of your own won't work. You have a habit of  throwing out statements with zero proof to back them.

Can you see the numbers in the paragraph below?

A first cut of the data indicates that U.S. CEOs are paid twice as much as their international counterparts.  But that is really comparing apples to oranges, for U.S. firms operate differently from their international counterparts, particularly in terms of corporate governance. After controlling for firm size, ownership, and board structure, all characteristics that often differ between U.S and international companies, the gap is reduced, with U.S. executives earning only a 26% premium. And when the analysis adjusts for the greater use of stock options and share awards in the U.S., the pay premium is reduced to an economically modest 14%. Maybe that would be a nice raise for a European CEO, but it’s not likely enough to induce him to cross the Atlantic and emigrate to the U.S.

Kenny, complete BS.  If you are not one of the overpayed CEO's, you are one of the yes men sniffing their butts.

What is BS? There are white papers all over from reputable academic institutions disputing the outdated notion that US CEOs are VASTLY over paid compared to their Intl counterparts.

Why do you have such a problem with CEOs making lots of money and no problems with people in other professions making lots of money?

Why do you get so mad about a CEO getting guaranteed money and failing but you have no problem with a professional athlete getting guaranteed money and failing?

JT, i also notice that you have posted a few times about Larry Ellison and attempted to vilify him. I dont understand why?

Larry Ellison is an example of what makes this country great. He created a company that is worh $90b+ and employs 120,000 people.

He should be praised not vilified. Take a look at his bio below from his wiki page.

Larry Ellison was born in New York City to an unwed Jewish mother.^[3][4][5][6] His father was an Italian American US Air Force pilot. After Ellison contracted pneumonia at the age of nine months, his mother gave him to her aunt and uncle for adoption.^[6] He did not meet his biological mother again until he was 48.^[7]

Ellison graduated from Eugene Field Elementary School in Chicago in January 1958 and attended Sullivan High School at least through the fall of 1959 before moving to Chicago's South S****, a middle-class Jewish neighborhood. Ellison remembers his adoptive mother as warm and loving, in contrast to his austere, unsupportive, and often distant adoptive father, who adopted the name Ellison to honor his point of entry into the United States, Ellis Island. Louis Ellison was a government employee who had made a small fortune in Chicago real estate, only to lose it during the Great Depression.^[6]

Although Ellison was raised in a Reform Jewish home by his adoptive parents, who attended synagogue regularly, he remained a religious skeptic. Ellison states: "While I think I am religious in one sense, the particular dogmas of Judaism are not dogmas I subscribe to. I don't believe that they are real. They're interesting stories. They're interesting mythology, and I certainly respect people who believe these are literally true, but I don't. I see no evidence for this stuff." At age thirteen, Ellison refused to have a bar mitzvah celebration.^[8] Ellison says that he has a love affair with Israel that is not connected to religious sentiments, but rather due to the innovative spirit of Israelis, particularly in the technology sector.^[9]

He left the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign after his second year, after not taking his final exams because his adoptive mother had just died. After spending a summer in northern California, Ellison attended the University of Chicago for one term, where he first encountered computer design. In 1966, aged 22, he moved to northern California.

Career[edit]

Larry Ellison lecturing at the Oracle OpenWorld, San Francisco 2010

During the 1970s, after a brief stint at Amdahl Corporation, Ellison began working for Ampex Corporation. His projects included a databasefor the CIA, which he named "Oracle". Ellison was inspired by a paper written by Edgar F. Codd on relational database systems called "A Relational Model of Data for Large Shared Data Banks".^[10] In 1977, he founded Software Development Laboratories (SDL) with two partners and an investment of $2,000; $1,200 of the money was his.

What is BS? There are white papers all over from reputable academic institutions disputing the outdated notion that US CEOs are VASTLY over paid compared to their Intl counterparts.

The white papers may be all over reputable academic institutions, but they are not out in the public.

Why do you have such a problem with CEOs making lots of money and no problems with people in other professions making lots of money?

I don't have a problem with a successful CEO making multimillions, but not hundreds of millions.  A  Wal Street banker that had to be bailed out by the government shouldn't be paid 50 million. They should be investigated for banking fraud. The finance guy who raided peoples pensions should be in jail. Bernie Madoff raided rich guys pensions and he went to jail. Pro athletics have to earn their money, or they are cut from the team.

JT, i also notice that you have posted a few times about Larry Ellison and attempted to vilify him. I dont understand why?

I never knew who Larry Ellison was until you posted about him.  So, to say I posted a few times about him is another one of your out and out lies. If you post it 2 more times, about half the people will start believing it. I still say he takes one dollar per year salary and pays 15% tax on millions of dividends. How much does he draw in dividends? After all, if he can have the worlds biggest house and the biggest boat, and he does that on a dollar a year, he's a very good money manager.

JT, like most lefties, will deny any study or facts that interfere with their world view.  Never mind, the facts, their mind is made up! 

Dodd=Frank had one good thing -- requiring shareholders to approve pay packets for CEOs.  Otherwise, the law is making it hard for small banks to exist, encouraging them to combine and grow, and discouraging the formation of regional banks. IOW, the law is encouraging "too big to fail banks," just the opposite the left stated was their goal.. Its crony capitalism, again.  If a bank requests a bailout, the bank should be made to accept bankruptcy -- making all pay contracts subject to court review.

Jt, sorry, but I think you're just shallow minded and jealous. We have much bigger fish to fry in this country than worrying about what a CEO makes. Take every dime from them and deal it out to every one else, then what? Have you ever thought past that? The government and people getting the money would **** through it faster than grain through a goose, then what? You actually want the very thing you claim you don't want, you want people to be forced to work for a set, or capped, amount.

While corporate profits are up, much of it is from overseas operations. In the private sector, except for a few select unions, workers have stampeded out the door -- seeing no benefit from membership.  Only in the public sector has union membership grown.  However, when workers are allowed to leave, again they leave on droves.

Lefties would pass laws requiring government workers to join a union and private sector employers to hire only union members, unless the employer was very small.

BTW, Bernie Madoff defrauded a number of small charities, as well.  Most of the wealthy he defrauded were liberals -- so easily fooled.

why does dire always state 'what the liberals think'.. and never tell what the 'conservatives' think.. wait, never mind... i see the problem.

jt,

I have forgotten more than you will ever know.

The key words are. "forgotten more".  

Since financial melt down, corporate profits are up 50%. median wages are down 6%.  Unions are needed more with each passing year.  Republicans are fighting a minimum wage increase tooth and nail.  Oracle CEO made $78,440,657 last year and that is just fine with the right wing.  It would take a min. wage earner 5.201 years to earn that much.  A good CEO is a very valuable thing to have.  Why does an american CEO earn so much more than one from a foreign country?  Unions made the middle class, as unions shrink, so does the middle class.  I don't know when all workers will realize that.

I love that post.  I wish that the non union, anti union workers could work under a good union. All union activity is not good, but for me, in a 39 year career, most of it was good.  

Is that your wat of apologizing for saying I was lying?

No.  The lie was in saying I had made a "few posts" about Larry Ellison. Again, I had heard of oracle, but not the name Larry Ellison.