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I've put this in the religion section because my question has to do with the religion of these people. If the Dugger's have ever mentioned the religion they believe in or the kind of church they attend (if they attend church), I must have missed it.
They don't believe in a woman wearing pants, wearing make-up, or cutting their hair.
Leave's me to think they are full gospel/Pentecostal. Ma Dugger doesn't believe in birth control. She says God will keep givng her children until he's ready to stop. Her 19th child lies in a neo-natal unit fighting for her life, & this 43 year old woman is ready to have more after almost dying with this one? Could God not have allowed this to happen to show her it's time to stop?
Just curious about your take on this family & their brand of religion.
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quote:
Originally posted by annehr@comcast.net:
I can not understand why the networks publicize and glamorize these people. I don't watch the how or anything about octomom. There are lots of people out there doing good that we could benefit from knowing more about. God gave her these children, but he also gave her a brain!


I agree. I don't see how they could feed this many children w/o the network. They sure wouldn't be living in such a huge home if not for what they are being paid to be on TV.
semi- I thought the same thing you did about their religion but I did see on one episode where they stated they were Baptist (!)

The birth control thing comes from where she got pregnant (unknowingly) while she was on BC & it terminated the pregnancy. Since they don't believe in abortion (and feel that they aborted the baby by being on BC), they now don't use the pill. (Ever heard of a condom?)
quote:
Originally posted by annehr@comcast.net:
I can not understand why the networks publicize and glamorize these people. I don't watch the how or anything about octomom. There are lots of people out there doing good that we could benefit from knowing more about. God gave her these children, but he also gave her a brain!


I totally agree - what a bunch of nuts! I think they only do it for the publicity. I've never watched the show and never will. They just make me ill.
quote:
Originally posted by Firedancer:

The birth control thing comes from where she got pregnant (unknowingly) while she was on BC & it terminated the pregnancy. Since they don't believe in abortion (and feel that they aborted the baby by being on BC), they now don't use the pill. (Ever heard of a condom?)


I saw that too, but I've never heard of the pill causing an abortion. I heard her say later that was God's way of telling her not to use any form of birth control.
The woman is ruining her health. She almost died having this last one. You would think she would be concerned about the 19 she has.
I didn't know they were baptist. Wonder if that could be the old timey baptist that believed as the full gospel do?
Yeah, i agree they may have too many children, but this family was completely self sufficient before there t.v. show, and they planned a big family early in their marriage. I am very impressed with their show and how well mannered these children are and how well behaved. I am sure that the money from the show helps with every day life and helped build their house, but have you ever cared to notice how much they give back? They go on mission trips to help others, they dont stand around with their hands out for help like some do. I personally think theirs is a much better show than John and Kate plus 8, they didnt go for fertility drugs or anything like that, these are God given children, and they are not afraid to talk about God in this world, and they live what they talk. I am very impressed with this family, and i hope they make it, and God will take care of little Josie. In this day and time people need to realize they must be doing something right because God sure does Bless them. Do you think you could take care of this many children and they be so well behaved and clean and fed?
I always thought they were Pentacostal/Holiness but everything on the internet says they are either Baptist or Independent Baptist. They are also strong followers of a group called "Qiverfull" which is obviously in favor of having lots of children. I remember seeing an episode of their show where they actually had "church services" in their home with a couple of other families. They basically had formed their own church from what i could tell.

Obviously, whatever denomination they follow, they are very strict and super conservative in their views of the roles of men and women. I always thought it was kind of funny that some of these people who live that way where the women are covered from head to toe and dare not show any outward sign of sexuality usually have a house full of kids. They may be super conservative in their outward appearance, but they are obviously not prudes in the bedroom..lol.
I love the Duggars!! I always wished I had kept having kids instead of selfishly thinking I wanted a life of my own someday. So here I am..my kids are grown and those were the absolute best years of my life.
Now about the Duggars...they have been smart business people and live a conservative lifestyle. They don't have debt. They have never taken gov't money. They didn't go looking for the show. TLC came knocking at their door wanting them. They actually told them "thanks but no thanks." because they were about to build their house and felt they had nothing interesting for a tv show. TLC said well at least let us film you building your house. That is how they got started.
Also Jim Bob has always said that it was up to Michelle whether they would have more kids.
So they don't take tax money, They aren't raising hoodlums..what is your problem people? Why do people feel they have the right to tell others how to live when they are not bothering anyone or breaking the law?
I say more power to them. I love what they are doing. They are raising their kids to be responsible citizens. What will God accomplish through this one family? Heaven only knows.
quote:
They should both be sterilized immediately.


By whom?

They are free to believe what they want and practice their religion as they see fit.

I know it seems unusual for a family to have that many kids, but consider this. There are a lot of guys running around right now that have that many kids but they aren't taking care of them.

The Duggars provide a good home, food, education, and care for all of those kids. They aren't taking tax payer funded welfare, they are working and earning their living.

So which situation would you prefer? A guy fathering a dozen kids by several different women, leaving the single moms to try and care for the kids themselves? Or a set of parents who provide for all of their children?

I don't share all of the Duggar's religious views. Personally, I think this last complicated birth might be a warning to them. However, I respect them for their work ethic and their ability to provide for all of their kids. I don't see why that would make anyone ill, I've always thought hard work and independence was something to be admired.

They are putting a lot more effort in to raising their 19 kids than a lot of parents put into raising their 1 or 2 kids.
Having the ability to do something doesn't mean you HAVE to do it. This last pregnancy/delivery should serve as a wake-up call to these people. Enough IS enough. At least they're not a burden to taxpayers as are MANY with a large number of offspring. They're a good family and, from what I know, pay for everything with cash. If they can't afford it, they don't buy it. But. . . Please, no more.
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
Having the ability to do something doesn't mean you HAVE to do it. This last pregnancy/delivery should serve as a wake-up call to these people. Enough IS enough. At least they're not a burden to taxpayers as are MANY with a large number of offspring. They're a good family and, from what I know, pay for everything with cash. If they can't afford it, they don't buy it. But. . . Please, no more.


Ok I am trying to figure out everyone's thinking on this because I am clueless. They have had 19 kids...and one problem with delivery/ carrying to full term. and everyone is up at arms about how this should be a warning. I know people who had problems with their first child...should they have quit? Let them alone. Back even 60-70 years ago this is the way it was done. People had big families. Big families are wonderful....unless you have to do without. Lay off and raise your own family as you see fit and let others do the same.
While women of advanced age can have perfectly normal pregnancies, it is well-known that instances of problematic pregnancies increase congruently with the mother's age. If that "one" problem had been during an earlier delivery I'd say go for it. However, such was not the case and should be considered before reopening the baby factory. It's a vagina, not a clown car.
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
While women of advanced age can have perfectly normal pregnancies, it is well-known that instances of problematic pregnancies increase congruently with the mother's age. If that "one" problem had been during an earlier delivery I'd say go for it. However, such was not the case and should be considered before reopening the baby factory. It's a vagina, not a clown car.


Anyone like how I transitioned from intelligent response to inferior? Which one made more sense? I'd like to think both were equally sensible.
I have question for the sake of debate.

Society says a woman can make the choice to terminate a pregnancy because it is her body and she can do what she wants to with it. So why is it offensive that this woman has made the choice to have babies into her 40s? Is it any less her body (and therefore less her decision) because she is 43 and has eighteen other children?
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
The Duggers, with their outlandish proclivity for procreation, are loading the planet with more additional population than any couple should, given the ever-increasing population of the earth and the ever-dwindling supply of the resources needed to sustain life

Hi Beter,

Since you feel that the Duggar family is ruining our environment with their large family -- I must presume that you favor the Chinese solution: one baby per family and then forced abortions for all other pregnancies.

If not, what number would you set on the number of children a family may legally bring into the world? Why that number?

My personal experience is that I have seen that children in larger families tend to be better raised and get into less trouble than those raised with only one, maybe two, siblings. In larger families I have seen more family unity and love spread about. Wonder why that is true?

I had never heard of the Duggars before this dialogue began. However, from watching the video of them, their family, and their home -- they appear to be doing something right.

And, they are not on welfare. Looks good to me.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill
quote:
Since you feel that the Duggar family is ruining our environment with their large family -- I must presume that you favor the Chinese solution: one baby per family and then forced abortions for all other pregnancies..


Bill, surely you know better than to make such an obviously extreme, wrongheaded and distorted analysis as that. How could you have ever come to any conclusion, or even any mandatory presumption, ("I must presume") that because I offer objections to the huge size of the Duggar family, I must therefore necessarily favor the extreme Chinese solution. Your presumption is irrational. It would demand of me that I gravitate to an extreme position that you have no valid reason to assume that I would embrace. It leaves me no latitude to condone some lesser number of children as a responsible approach to family planning. Think about it, Bill, what you posted makes no real sense. Your presumption is invalid, since there is no reasonable way that what I posted would impel you to the extreme presumption you have stated. Thus, unless you recant the presumption from which you are attempting to make your case, I will offer no more to the discussion.
Those Parents do not have enough time, energy or resources to give proper attention to each child. The older children end up being "mini parents"--doing parental duties as directed, the parents only hit the high spots in guidance.
I absolutely hate how they use the system to support themselves. Non profit status, etc. Shameful, but they justify it in the name of God.
They get plenty of "things" & “vacations” provided by their TV show income & they skirt the tax issue by filing as a non profit & as a church. To me that is fraud, but they do it legally so it's okay in their minds. Everything they do is justified as to how they interpret the Bible.
The girls can't show their legs & the boys can't look at girls in shorts,
Michelle definitely relies on help from the older girls. The oldest girl is 19 or 20. It looks like Jim Bob & Michelle have no interest in letting her leave the nest to start her own life, go to college, etc. I think it is sad that they seem to want to keep her around to "mother" all those children.
It’s funny how some say how well behaved the Duggar children are. Maybe the older ones are, but the little ones run around like banshees and do not listen very well when told what to do. You can see these parents have no time to parent the little ones, even when they are in the house with them all day, it seems to be left to the older children to pick up the slack.
If you do some research on the training methods that the Duggar’s believe in, you would be horrified. I heard them say they believe in the Bill Gothard method of training children and some of the stuff that guy recommends is beyond scary and borders on child abuse. If you want to see scary, google growing children the godly way. They believe in spanking the child, and making the child look you in the eye while the spanking is done... really cruel methods of parental intimidation and breaking a child's spirit. It’s not your normal way of spanking.
None of these children have outside friends with diverse backgrounds. They don't go to birthday parties of other children. These children will never develop that 'thicker skin' or social skills at a young age.
The fact is that Michele’s body is no longer able to safely carry a baby to term. With such a premature baby, it is VERY likely that this baby will grow up with special needs, and will need extra attention, therapy, the parent's 100% undivided efforts & attention. How is that going to happen if she keeps having more kids, let alone possibly more premature kids who will also have similar needs? It's just a broken situation, & not good for the children.
Will a teenager have the emotional strength needed to care for a special needs sibling when mom has another baby? In this family, the newborn stays with Michelle until the next one comes and then when the new baby is born, the other one is passed on to one of the other children to be their "buddy" and parent them and be responsible for them. Alot of parental duties fall to the children.
I am all for children having chores and helping out but not constantly. Kids need to be kids, not mini parents.
The oldest girls pretty much do all the cooking and cleaning and laundry. They said there is an average of 8-10 loads of clothes per day, not to mention the vast amounts of food cooked for one meal. The older girls have done more housekeeping, laundry and child rearing than most of us on this forum.
It's just so sad that they haven't gotten to be children and normal teenagers themselves.
I think God expects people to use the sense they were hopefully born with and to say that everything is God's will is irresponsible. If they keep having babies, she's going to die or have another very damaged infant. I would think they'd view this latest one as a wake up call. Now that she's had preeclampsia, she's more prone to getting that again. I don't believe in blaming everything on God, nor expecting God to control every mess people get themselves into.
With this last baby being born so premature & the difficulties she will have, she will need her parent’s special attention. To take another chance, a chance that could result in a baby with even more issues than this last one just seems selfish to me. They use God as a crutch so to speak, for their baby making.... but didn't God give us all FREE WILL?!?!?
Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Sorry for the long post, I got carried away.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Since you feel that the Duggar family is ruining our environment with their large family -- I must presume that you favor the Chinese solution: one baby per family and then forced abortions for all other pregnancies..


Bill, surely you know better than to make such an obviously extreme, wrongheaded and distorted analysis as that. How could you have ever come to any conclusion, or even any mandatory presumption, ("I must presume") that because I offer objections to the huge size of the Duggar family, I must therefore necessarily favor the extreme Chinese solution. Your presumption is irrational. It would demand of me that I gravitate to an extreme position that you have no valid reason to assume that I would embrace. It leaves me no latitude to condone some lesser number of children as a responsible approach to family planning. Think about it, Bill, what you posted makes no real sense. Your presumption is invalid, since there is no reasonable way that what I posted would impel you to the extreme presumption you have stated. Thus, unless you recant the presumption from which you are attempting to make your case, I will offer no more to the discussion.

Hi Beter,

Yes, I offered those two extremes -- for you were berating the family for its size.

So, what number of children do you thing should be legally imposed as a limit upon a family in America?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Hi Chick,

You say, "Those Parents do not have enough time, energy or resources to give proper attention to each child. The older children end up being "mini parents"-- doing parental duties as directed, the parents only hit the high spots in guidance."

That normally happens in larger families. However, I have known a number of people who grew up in large families (yes, 10, 11, even 15 children) -- and they seem to cherish the experience.

I hear more complaints about having only one, or no, siblings. Large families tend to be happier families.

Then, you say, "I absolutely hate how they use the system to support themselves. Non profit status, etc. Shameful, but they justify it in the name of God. They get plenty of "things" & “vacations” provided by their TV show income & they skirt the tax issue by filing as a non profit & as a church. To me that is fraud, but they do it legally so it's okay in their minds."

I had never heard of the Duggars until you began this discussion. However, if this family is astute enough, and willing, to make a living doing reality television -- then, God bless them. I would not want to live under the spotlight of the cameras; but, if that allows them to have a big family (which seems to be their desire) and to provide for their family with a nice home and plenty to eat -- who am I to put them down? Now, if they were forcing their children to do something against their will; that would be wrong. But, in my brief exposure to this family, that does not seem to be the case. And, I would not mind having a home that nice.

As I said, I am new to this family -- but, I did not see anything which made me believe that they were organized as a church or filing as a "religious non-profit" organization. I may be wrong. But, then, if the authorities have allowed them to file this way -- your problem should not be with the family -- but, with the authorities. After all, to qualify they must prove their claim to be a church organization.

Finally, you say, "Everything they do is justified as to how they interpret the Bible. The girls can't show their legs & the boys can't look at girls in shorts."

It is wonderful that a family is guided in their daily life by the Word of God. Now, you and I may not agree with their interpretation -- but, if they live by the Bible, God bless them. Look at how the Amish live and dress. I do not knock their lifestyle either. There are many Christian churches which will tell the women to not wear makeup and jewelry. I don't agree with this -- but, if that is how they interpret the Bible; why should I try to tell them they are wrong. I would much rather see them go to this extreme -- than to live outside the Bible.

I would say that, in my opinion, and from my brief exposure to the Duggar family -- God bless them, they are raising a healthy, Christian family. In that respect, I would love to see many more families follow their example.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
The Duggers, with their outlandish proclivity for procreation, are loading the planet with more additional population than any couple should, given the ever-increasing population of the earth and the ever-dwindling supply of the resources needed to sustain life


You also said they should be sterilized. Sterilized by whom? Who would have the authority to force people into sterilization?

Also, despite the number of their kids, they are still raising them. The kids are provided and cared for. They are not living in poverty. So why would you have a problem with this?

On the other hand, there are people out there reproducing kids and not taking care of them. There are a lot of single moms out there living in poverty while the father (term used loosely) is running around making more kids.

Which is better, one guy fathering 20 kids among 10 different women and not taking care of them or a single, self sufficient family of 21?

I don't necessarily share their religious beliefs. I think the children should have a little more freedom, kids who are isolated from the real world don't learn how to handle it when they leave home. I also think the whole girls in skirts thing is a form of subjugation, it has nothing to do with modesty.

That being said, in this country of religious and personal freedom, they have every right to have as many children as they want. I have no problem with it as long as they are supporting them, which they are.
Last edited by NashBama
I encourage everyone to go to the library and check out their book. It is quite an amazing story of what God will do when a Christian says..."Okay I will do it your way".
And in this day where foreigners come here and reproduce like crazy American values are going to be overrun in just a few short years. In Jordan, just a generation ago, Christians were common..now Muslims with their large families have run them underground. ...it could happen here. So I say bless the Duggars.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Since you feel that the Duggar family is ruining our environment with their large family -- I must presume that you favor the Chinese solution: one baby per family and then forced abortions for all other pregnancies..


Bill, surely you know better than to make such an obviously extreme, wrongheaded and distorted analysis as that. How could you have ever come to any conclusion, or even any mandatory presumption, ("I must presume") that because I offer objections to the huge size of the Duggar family, I must therefore necessarily favor the extreme Chinese solution. Your presumption is irrational. It would demand of me that I gravitate to an extreme position that you have no valid reason to assume that I would embrace. It leaves me no latitude to condone some lesser number of children as a responsible approach to family planning. Think about it, Bill, what you posted makes no real sense. Your presumption is invalid, since there is no reasonable way that what I posted would impel you to the extreme presumption you have stated. Thus, unless you recant the presumption from which you are attempting to make your case, I will offer no more to the discussion.

Hi Beter,

Yes, I offered those two extremes -- for you were berating the family for its size.

So, what number of children do you thing should be legally imposed as a limit upon a family in America?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


I do not believe that there should be any legally-imposed limit on the number of children in a family. I believe that responsible persons should use good sound judgment in family planning and in general, I agree with semiannualchick's take on the Duggars. Sound judgment would place a limit on the number of children at a figure WAY below the number of kids in the Duggar's overpopulated rabbit warren!
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Since you feel that the Duggar family is ruining our environment with their large family -- I must presume that you favor the Chinese solution: one baby per family and then forced abortions for all other pregnancies..

Bill, surely you know better than to make such an obviously extreme, wrongheaded and distorted analysis as that. How could you have ever come to any conclusion, or even any mandatory presumption, ("I must presume") that because I offer objections to the huge size of the Duggar family, I must therefore necessarily favor the extreme Chinese solution. Your presumption is irrational. It would demand of me that I gravitate to an extreme position that you have no valid reason to assume that I would embrace. It leaves me no latitude to condone some lesser number of children as a responsible approach to family planning. Think about it, Bill, what you posted makes no real sense. Your presumption is invalid, since there is no reasonable way that what I posted would impel you to the extreme presumption you have stated. Thus, unless you recant the presumption from which you are attempting to make your case, I will offer no more to the discussion.

Hi Beter,

Yes, I offered those two extremes -- for you were berating the family for its size.

So, what number of children do you thing should be legally imposed as a limit upon a family in America?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

I do not believe that there should be any legally-imposed limit on the number of children in a family. I believe that responsible persons should use good sound judgment in family planning and in general, I agree with semiannualchick's take on the Duggars. Sound judgment would place a limit on the number of children at a figure WAY below the number of kids in the Duggar's overpopulated rabbit warren!

Hi Beter,

Then, what is that "not-legally imposed" number of children that families should be allowed to reach?

And, as Nash said, since the Duggars seem quite capable of sustaining their family with no government support -- why should anyone be allowed to tell them how many children they are allowed to have in their family?

How would you feel if the government, or the folks on the forum -- came to your home and told you that your family is not the size which pleases them? I suspect it might get your dander up.

If they were on welfare or any other type of government subsidy -- I could see your and Chick's point. But, since they are not -- God bless them and their family. They will definitely enjoy growing older wrapped in their family love.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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I don't think anyone shoud be able to tell us how many children we should have, not as long as they are treated right & provided for w/o state assistance. The Dugger's had 16 children & living in a house with 2 bathroom's before the network came calling. Since then, they have a huge home, many car's & a vacation whenever & wherever they want it.
The Dugger's give no thought to how many children they have & no thought to the health of any coming children or to her health. Their attitude of doing it for God is ridiculous.
Nash, Bill and others interested:

I am 100 percent in agreement with semiannualchick on this matter. Her take on the matter makes total good sense. I would add only that I firmly believe that the overconsumption of the earth's resources in a very short time would be hugely and unnecessarily accelerated if others produced excessive offspring as do the Duggars, irrespective of whether those human litters would be fed and housed in the good ole USA or in Subsaharan Africa and irrespective of whether the frantically-breeding pair is able to independently finance the products of its fanatical fecundity.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Nash, Bill and others interested:

I am 100 percent in agreement with semiannualchick on this matter. Her take on the matter makes total good sense. I would add only that I firmly believe that the overconsumption of the earth's resources in a very short time would be hugely and unnecessarily accelerated if others produced excessive offspring as do the Duggars, irrespective of whether those human litters would be fed and housed in the good ole USA or in Subsaharan Africa and irrespective of whether the frantically-breeding pair is able to independently finance the products of its fanatical fecundity.

The bottom line is that you are certainly entitled to your opinion, However, your opinion carries no sway or control over what they may, or may not do.

Now, if it was public knowledge that instead of having 19 babies she had had 19 abortions, I suspect at least some of those condemning her on this forum would insist it was a private matter and ONLY she should have any say-so over her body...
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick: I don't think anyone should be able to tell us how many children we should have, not as long as they are treated right & provided for w/o state assistance. The Duggar's had
16 children & living in a house with 2 bathroom's before the network came calling. Since then, they have a huge home, many car's & a vacation whenever & wherever they want it. The Duggar's give no thought to how many children they have & no thought to the health of any coming children or to her health. Their attitude of doing it for God is ridiculous.

Hi Chick,

I agree with you that, as long as they can provide for their family without government subsidy, no one has a right to tell them how many children they can have. The fact that they have taken advantage of the "reality show" curiosity of folks and are making a living from television -- I say God bless them for their astuteness.

However, when you say, "Their attitude of doing it for God is ridiculous" -- I have to both agree and disagree with you. First, I have to disagree with you because I feel that your comment is based upon your being a non-believer; so, doing anything for God, to you, is ridiculous. On the other hand, I have to agree with you that I do not believe God calls a family to have nineteen children. God calls us to love and to provide for our children and our grandchildren -- but, I do not believe He gives us a quota for the number of children we are to have.

In 1958, when I first came to California, my sister-in-law and her husband were Hispanic and had three children. They wanted to stop there; but, being good Catholics they went to their priest to ask permission. The priest was a young man, maybe thirty, who had never been married -- and he told them not to use contraceptives and to leave it in God's hands. They eventually had eight children. But, I will say that even with their eight children; they were a happy family. My personal feelings are that when they wanted to stop at three; they should have been allowed to use contraceptives to prevent pregnancies before they happened. But, they were able to provide for their large family and were well adjusted -- so, maybe it was God's will. Who are we to question God?

In summary, I do not believe that God has given this family a quota -- but, as long as they are providing for their needs, are happy and well adjusted -- then, God bless them.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Chick,
However, when you say, "Their attitude of doing it for God is ridiculous" -- I have to both agree and disagree with you. First, I have to disagree with you because I feel that your comment is based upon your being a non-believer; so, doing anything for God, to you, is ridiculous.
as long as they are providing for their needs, are happy and well adjusted -- then, God bless them.
Bill


Bill, I don't know for a fact that God does/does not exist. It would be nice if someone could prove it to my satisfaction.
I was sincere in my comment, it has nothing to do with if I think God exist or not. For these people to keep risking Mrs. Duggers life & bringing another unhealthy child into this family all for the sake of religion/God is ridiculous.
They may be happy but well adjusted? Not with bringing another child into the family that will likely have health issues all it's life or the risk Mrs. Dugger is taking in losing her life with #21.
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
Bill, I don't know for a fact that God does/does not exist. It would be nice if someone could prove it to my satisfaction.

Hi Chick,

When you ask for something to be proven to your satisfaction -- you must already have a level of proof in mind.

What would it take, in your mind, to prove God does exist?

Chick, if you will read Hebrews, chapter 11, you will find that folks follow God -- BY FAITH. God will not push Himself on you; but, He will always be there to welcome you into His family -- at any time. But, only if you do it in this life. After this life -- there will be no second chance.

So, what level bar have you set for God to prove Himself to your satisfaction?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:

Bill, I don't know for a fact that God does/does not exist. It would be nice if someone could prove it to my satisfaction.


Semi, Let's say you walk into a dark room and turn on the lights. In the room is a table with a beautifully decorated wedding cake. I mean BEAUTIFUL. Multiple tiers, loads of white icing with lots of little icing flowers. You'd see that cake and know that someone HAD to have baked and decorated it. A bunch of flower, milk, eggs and butter didn't just "somehow" miraculously all mix together, spontaneuosly cook and then 'grow' icing.

Now, look around at this earth and mankind. There's too much 'design' in it for it to have "just happened". That's why, in Psalm 19:1, it says "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Order doesn't come naturally from disorder. There is a SOMEONE who put it all together. If you seek Him, you will find Him.

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