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quote:
Originally posted by luvurnabor:
Are you kidding? this happens every day in this country.
Except in this country he would have been sent home, then he could have called an ambulance, which would have taken him to another hospital, which would have refused to admit him without insurance.
You two must be living in the twilight zone. Eeker
Hospitals can not refuse treatment due to a lack of insurance.Try again.
What people don't realize is if we go to a socialize medicine in this country, all the hospitals, doctors, and nurses will start working for the Federal Gov.(the same ones we don't trust now) and the local and state laws will have no authority over them. Which means no health inspections, no governing body to oversee these doctors. And if you want to sue one of them because they looked at you funny, you can't, you will have to sue the Gov, and we all know where that will get you.

Not for me, I say lets get a handle on these frivolous lawsuits by making those that looses pay all expenses(even if they drop the case).
That will cut out high insurance premiums for the doctors and drug companies thus lowering the cost.
quote:
Tape shows woman dying on waiting room floor

NEW YORK (CNN) -- A 49-year-old woman collapsed and died on the floor of a waiting room at a Brooklyn psychiatric hospital and lay there for more than an hour as employees ignored her, according to the New York Civil Liberties Union, which on Tuesday released surveillance camera video of the incident.

Surveillance video shows a woman lying on the hospital floor for almost an hour before anyone helped her.

Esmin Green was involuntarily admitted to the psychiatric emergency department of Kings County Hospital Center on June 18 for what the hospital describes as "agitation and psychosis."

Upon her admission, Green waited nearly 24 hours for treatment, said the civil liberties union, which was among the groups filing suit against the facility last year seeking improved conditions for patients.

The surveillance camera video shows the woman rolling off a waiting room chair, landing face-down on the floor and convulsing. Her collapse came at 5:32 a.m. June 19, the NYCLU said, and she stopped moving at 6:07 a.m. During that time, the organization said, workers at the hospital ignored her.

At 6:35 a.m., the tape shows a hospital employee approaching and nudging Green with her foot, the group said. Help was summoned three minutes later. Video Watch the surveillance video »

In addition, the organization said, hospital staff falsified Green's records to cover up the time she had lain there without assistance.

"Contrary to what was recorded from four different angles by the hospital's video cameras, the patient's medical records say that at 6 a.m., she got up and went to the bathroom, and at 6:20 a.m. she was 'sitting quietly in waiting room' -- more than 10 minutes since she last moved and 48 minutes after she fell to the floor."


link

do a google search on beatrice vance. then do one on edith isabel rodriguez. i bet there are some folks on skid row who might have some stories as well.
Socialized medicine in many European countries has changed the standards of health care. Many times people do not get a doctor's visit for a simple cold or flu. It takes some very serious illness to see a doctor. I use the Netherlands as an example since I know people who have lived there. Having money to pay extra for extra attention does not work in the Netherlands. My friend says absenteeism for work is higher there because of the situation.

In the United States there are county hospitals that will see you regardless of insurance. It is because they are funded with taxpayer money. But they are overcrowded and health care is poor because of the number of people simply visiting the emergency room with a cold. An ordinary doctor does not see them without insurance unless they visit one of the free clinics which is also crowded. Doctors in the United States generally donate up to 20% of their time.

Commercial hospitals in the United States are not required to treat you if you do not have insurance other than stabilizing you for transport. This requirement is enforced using the same method the federal government uses to regulate most state controlled situations, they refuse to pay any Medicare unless the hospital complies. The problem is where you can be transported and how you will get there.

The problem of people dying in our own emergency rooms is on the rise in many areas. In many cases we hear that workers simply walked past the person while they lay there. In most cases the hospitals are punished but that does not help the person who died. The problem occurs because we have an increased apathy to work in our country. We are sliding into a very deep hole.

It seems we have reached an impasse. We cannot continue to let certain hospitals attempt to survive on taxes as they are overloaded. Yet if we institute socialized medicine in the same manner as done in many countries we may suffer a decline in care. A third problem is finding a way to keep people interested into entering the field of medicine. Our lawsuits and increasing pressures are forcing doctors out of practice and keeping potential candidates out of the field.

The solution will need to be very creative. It will need to include a method to help commercial hospitals survive while they take on patients who have not previously been able to pay. Most people are accustomed to higher level of health care that I am not sure how we will maintain. But something must be done before we reach an epidemic. The worst case scenario reduces the number of doctors and care facilities and allows illnesses to run rampant.
I have direct experience with the Health Care System in the UK.
There is no excuse for anyone not being given health care in this country. Hell! close down all he presidential libraries use this money to pay for health care.
Hire more investigators to uncover the huge amount of fraud, make sure the one caught are made an example of...
Presently our health system looks like a third word country as to how it is set up...

On the other hand I have a friend who was recently in Keller Hospital who could not have received better treatment from the nurses.
However, the nutrition that was given to him as an cancer patient was and is appalling...it is if the nutritional department has never read one page on what to serve cancer patients, nor does the doctor have a clue.
He was loosing weight...so they gave him jello, coffee,and strained oat meal (meaning water with 3 flakes of oat meal on top.) Then they came in and stated your bowls are not moving and you are continuing to lose weight.

Can anybody count the amount of calories in Jello, coffee and oatmeal water and tell me how many calories are in it to make you gain weight and bulk mass to make your bowls move.

Living proof that a degree is just another piece of paper.
Our healthcare systems and all healthcare systems are a problem. But as one poster has said here, the people of America spoke with their vote. They seem to prefer a socialized medicine. They want for free what is very expensive to produce. It is expensive to produce because it is a very good and needed thing for everybody. Another poster mentioned tort/lawsuit reform. That would be a great start, but is not nearly enough and there are times when suits are necessary. I thing everyone should think long and hard about this and be very careful what you wish for/vote for in this situation.
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
quote:
Originally posted by luvurnabor:
Are you kidding? this happens every day in this country.
Except in this country he would have been sent home, then he could have called an ambulance, which would have taken him to another hospital, which would have refused to admit him without insurance.
You two must be living in the twilight zone. Eeker
Hospitals can not refuse treatment due to a lack of insurance.Try again.


If they are government funded hospitals they can't refuse treatment for not having insurance. A private owned hospital, such as Humana, can and frequently does.
That's true, DHS. Privately owned hospitals can refuse treatment or send the patient to a publicly owned hospital.

ECM, Shoals, and Keller are all publicly owned, and can't refuse treatment. They treat everyone, insurance or no insurance.

Just an FYI to everyone, if it's after hours and you are sick, your best bet is to call your primary care doctor (if you have one). Their answering service will take a message and call him/her or whatever doctor is on call for him/her. The doctor should call you back, and MAY call you in a prescription IF they feel the situation is not serious. I suggest you try that first before heading to the ERs to wait for hours.

If you think ER wait time is bad now, it would only be worse if it becomes socialized.
quote:
Originally posted by autumn1964:
That's true, DHS. Privately owned hospitals can refuse treatment or send the patient to a publicly owned hospital.

ECM, Shoals, and Keller are all publicly owned, and can't refuse treatment. They treat everyone, insurance or no insurance.

Just an FYI to everyone, if it's after hours and you are sick, your best bet is to call your primary care doctor (if you have one). Their answering service will take a message and call him/her or whatever doctor is on call for him/her. The doctor should call you back, and MAY call you in a prescription IF they feel the situation is not serious. I suggest you try that first before heading to the ERs to wait for hours.

If you think ER wait time is bad now, it would only be worse if it becomes socialized.


You are correct that some doctors will call in a prescription. But that practice is slowly falling to the wayside because of all the malpractice suits. Also the patient to doctor ratio is rising (more patients, less doctors) so fast that any doctor who answers the phone at night will soon not be able to get any sleep.

The day is coming when the public hospitals will lose more funding and may eventually be privatized. At that point the people in the Shoals will feel the pinch already felt in many parts of the country.

While we don't want socialized medicine, something has got to change. Face it, the Shoals already has a form of socialized medicine with three public hospitals. Yet they will still do everything they can to collect payment. They have to. The coffers of Colbert and Lauderdale Counties are not everlasting. The public constantly wants lower taxes but better service. It is a face-off.
To date, there are no plans in this country for single payer (what you refer to as "socialized medecine". However, there are plans for an affordable universally available health insurance, and I personally believe that that is a very important issue.
I disagree with the assumption that things will get worse at ERs. On the contrary, if everybody has insurance, then hopefully they will not use the ER as their primary doctor, and therefore ERs can go back to being for emergencies.
Also, since everyone will be paying for their own health care needs, the hospital, will not have reason to pass the cost of indignant health care along to those of us who have insurance.
The total outcome, hopefully , should be more affordable health care for all, and insurance rates will go down.
quote:
Originally posted by excelman:
To date, there are no plans in this country for single payer (what you refer to as "socialized medecine". However, there are plans for an affordable universally available health insurance, and I personally believe that that is a very important issue.
I disagree with the assumption that things will get worse at ERs. On the contrary, if everybody has insurance, then hopefully they will not use the ER as their primary doctor, and therefore ERs can go back to being for emergencies.
Also, since everyone will be paying for their own health care needs, the hospital, will not have reason to pass the cost of indignant health care along to those of us who have insurance.
The total outcome, hopefully , should be more affordable health care for all, and insurance rates will go down.


Good point.
One experience that I had at Keller recently really got me to thinking. I was there for an outpatient procedure. I have very good insurance, but there are still deductibles and co-pays. While I was being admitted, I was told that before they would do the procedure, I had to pay my deductible (No one had mentioned this beforehand). Fortunately, I was able to pay the $250, but while I was writing my check out, there was a Latino girl in obvious labor. She could not speak any English, and could not even read Spanish. Needless to say, she had no insurance, and was never asked to make a payment. Although, I feel it was the right thing to do to treat her and her baby, I was was a little miffed at how payment was demanded from me, and my insurance had already guaranteed over 90% of the total amount. What do others of you think about this?
The single payor you speak of would have to be the federal government. Hospitals, doctors, other healthcare providers, could not stay afloat with the federal governments rate of payment alone. They would have to change their operating practices radically. They maintain their current practices because of private health insurers in general. Therefore, it is socialized medicine because the federal government would be telling us how to practice. Next, there could be potentially socialized Walmart. But remember, you never get something for nothing. When the government funds it, it usually ends up like section 8 housing.
quote:
Originally posted by Smooth operator:
One experience that I had at Keller recently really got me to thinking. I was there for an outpatient procedure. I have very good insurance, but there are still deductibles and co-pays. While I was being admitted, I was told that before they would do the procedure, I had to pay my deductible (No one had mentioned this beforehand). Fortunately, I was able to pay the $250, but while I was writing my check out, there was a Latino girl in obvious labor. She could not speak any English, and could not even read Spanish. Needless to say, she had no insurance, and was never asked to make a payment. Although, I feel it was the right thing to do to treat her and her baby, I was was a little miffed at how payment was demanded from me, and my insurance had already guaranteed over 90% of the total amount. What do others of you think about this?


I'd say that and deadbeat pillheads are two of the biggest causes of rising health costs.I don't like the thought of refusing medical care to anyone but you have got to draw the line with illegal immigrants somewhere.It is not the taxpayers burden to feed feed and doctor everyone,ecspecially those who aren't even citizens.Plus,look how bad the Federal government screws up every thing else(except for our great military.)Do you really want them messing with your health insurance?
quote:
Originally posted by Backwoods:
quote:
Originally posted by Smooth operator:
One experience that I had at Keller recently really got me to thinking. I was there for an outpatient procedure. I have very good insurance, but there are still deductibles and co-pays. While I was being admitted, I was told that before they would do the procedure, I had to pay my deductible (No one had mentioned this beforehand). Fortunately, I was able to pay the $250, but while I was writing my check out, there was a Latino girl in obvious labor. She could not speak any English, and could not even read Spanish. Needless to say, she had no insurance, and was never asked to make a payment. Although, I feel it was the right thing to do to treat her and her baby, I was was a little miffed at how payment was demanded from me, and my insurance had already guaranteed over 90% of the total amount. What do others of you think about this?


I'd say that and deadbeat pillheads are two of the biggest causes of rising health costs.I don't like the thought of refusing medical care to anyone but you have got to draw the line with illegal immigrants somewhere.It is not the taxpayers burden to feed feed and doctor everyone,ecspecially those who aren't even citizens.Plus,look how bad the Federal government screws up every thing else(except for our great military.)Do you really want them messing with your health insurance?


Who said she was an illegal immigrant?
quote:
Originally posted by DoctorDawg:
The single payor you speak of would have to be the federal government. Hospitals, doctors, other healthcare providers, could not stay afloat with the federal governments rate of payment alone. They would have to change their operating practices radically. They maintain their current practices because of private health insurers in general. Therefore, it is socialized medicine because the federal government would be telling us how to practice. Next, there could be potentially socialized Walmart. But remember, you never get something for nothing. When the government funds it, it usually ends up like section 8 housing.


Doctors at this time take those types of payments. Medicare has a maximum they pay for a certain thing. By coincidence , so does my Blue Cross. For example, you go to a doctor for an office visit. The doctor will bill you about $100 for that office visit. Insurance will look at that , and decide that the "usual and customary" charge for that service is $65.00, and that is what they pay on, and what they tell us to pay our co-pays on. That is why a person with Blue Cross should NEVER pay the co-pay before they get the EOB from BX. Doctors offices will try to extract that from you, but they have agreed when they accepted BX that they would take the contracted ammount.
Hospitals: well , I've told this before.
I had my gal bladder removed about 10 years ago. Had the procedure in the AM and spent one night, went home the next AM.
The hospital sent me a bill for $7000.00. I waited on my BX to send my EOB. BX said that the usual and customary charge for that was $2000., and that is what they paid on, and I had to make the co-pay of 20% of $2k rather than 20% of $7K.

The point to all this is that doctors and hospitals are already working on those types of prices.
If you are a doctor, let me ask why y'all always bill more than the UCC ?
quote:
Originally posted by DHS-86:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
quote:
Originally posted by luvurnabor:
Are you kidding? this happens every day in this country.
Except in this country he would have been sent home, then he could have called an ambulance, which would have taken him to another hospital, which would have refused to admit him without insurance.
You two must be living in the twilight zone. Eeker
Hospitals can not refuse treatment due to a lack of insurance.Try again.


If they are government funded hospitals they can't refuse treatment for not having insurance. A private owned hospital, such as Humana, can and frequently does.
Thanks for the info.
Okay, let's go over this once more,
S L O W L Y, Socialized medicine (government funded health care for everyone), is not that different from Social Security (government funded retirement). NOW, we know how well the government has administered that program (Social Security), it is fiscally broke and physically broke. We have paid in from our private funds, with the federal government as caretaker, more than three times sufficient monies to cover our social security retirement, but the federal government, CONGRESS, has raided, robbed, pillaged, pilfered, stolen, embezelled and otherwise stolen enough of our money from Social Security that they now declare THEY CAN'T fix it...Hmmmmmm you want these people to provide your health care???
quote:
Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
Okay, let's go over this once more,
S L O W L Y, Socialized medicine (government funded health care for everyone), is not that different from Social Security (government funded retirement). NOW, we know how well the government has administered that program (Social Security), it is fiscally broke and physically broke. We have paid in from our private funds, with the federal government as caretaker, more than three times sufficient monies to cover our social security retirement, but the federal government, CONGRESS, has raided, robbed, pillaged, pilfered, stolen, embezelled and otherwise stolen enough of our money from Social Security that they now declare THEY CAN'T fix it...Hmmmmmm you want these people to provide your health care???


Here is an interesting read on how President Reagan saved Social Security in 1983.

Link - Reagan's Policies
quote:
Originally posted by Smooth operator:
.. but while I was writing my check out, there was a Latino girl in obvious labor. She could not speak any English, and could not even read Spanish. Needless to say, she had no insurance, and was never asked to make a payment. Although, I feel it was the right thing to do to treat her and her baby, I was was a little miffed at how payment was demanded from me, and my insurance had already guaranteed over 90% of the total amount. What do others of you think about this?


The girl was probably an illegal alien that is covered under "emergency" provisions of Medicaid for the delivery of the baby only, no prenatal care, no postpartum or post operative visit included. She would have already qualified under Medicaid. The hospital, and the doctor who delivers her will get some payment instead of none.
If you want to look at government medical systems, all you have to do is look at Medicaid. There are very few doctors that have practices that serve only Medicaid patients, because they all go broke.

Recently, Decatur general had to close their labor and delivery unit because all the obstetricians that worked out of the hospital moved their ob practices to Huntsville.

The reason? They have seen a huge increase in the illegal alien population there. Their deliveries are covered under special "emergency" provisions of Medicaid that only cover the delivery, no other care. The patient rarely can pay for prenatal care, which turns them into high risk patients for delivery.

The doctors couldn't make any money, since they were required to deliver these high risk, high cost, patients and received very little payment. They moved all their paying business to a hospital that doesn't require them to see indigent or non-paying patients.

Internists and Family Practice physicians that are the primary care physicians are a dying breed, simply because Medicaid and Medicare pay them very little, but require huge loads of paperwork. They have become gatekeepers. The number of medical school graduates that are going into Family Practice or Internal Medicine is on a very steep decline, and is considered a crisis situation

Physicians and hospitals in North Alabama receive significantly lower insurance reimbursements than those in South Alabama, and those in South AL receive less than those in Georgia. Why? Because.

Blue Cross pays Quest Diagnostics - a national lab - half as much for lab work from Alabama than that from Georgia, even though all the work is done in Atlanta. Why? Because they say so.

Hillary tried to solve the health care problem, and failed miserably. It will be very interesting to see what Obama comes up with.
Well said, CrustyMac. Those physicians are probably still required to take care of the indigent in Huntsville. The number is just less. What you are going to start to see is communities are going to have to start paying for the care of their own indigent if they want to keep any doctors and hospitals in their community. They will do this thru community taxing. We all like where we live, but if you sell hammers, and no one has the money to buy a hammer, you move your business.

On the question of billing price versus what Medicare allows versus what Blue Cross allows: doctors and hospitals have not been allowed in effect to raise what they get paid for the last 25 years. At that point in time, prices were raised willy nilly and price gouging was happening significantly. The federal government stepped in, appropriately so, and said no more. They said if you are going to take care of the sick and infirm, this is what you are going to get paid. Doctors, in general, are an altruistic bunch. Those that aren't, get weeded out early on in the training for the most part. Anyway, docs and hospitals saw that as the right thing to do. Therefore, we accepted what Medicare was willing to pay. Inflation/standards of living go up at about 3-4%per year. The bill you see from the docs and hospitals have some of that built in. Medicare has raised its rates sometimes 1%, sometimes 0.5%, sometimes none at all. And they are considering a 20% cut for 2010.

Now Blue Cross and the private insurers figured out that if the docs would do it for Medicare rates, we will negotiate our rate. That rate goes down as well. They don't won't to get the number down to Medicare rates tho, because they know the whole system will go belly up and the insurance execs will lose the company jet.

So, the fee from the office/hospital is what would be an actual fee if we really lived in a free enterprise/ free market system. The actual payments I have explained above. You should pay your copay with joy. It is your responsibility for the service provided. It is always very low. If you skipped your internet access for one month, it should take care of the highest copay for any particular treatment or illness.

One last question and then I'll quit. What do you think the price/ cost of a human life should be? Can you put a dollar number on it? Should you pay more for a refrigerator, or to save your life? Should you pay more for a computer, or to save your life? Should you pay more for a car, or to save your life?
quote:
Originally posted by AlabamaSon:
quote:
Originally posted by Backwoods:
quote:
Originally posted by Smooth operator:
One experience that I had at Keller recently really got me to thinking. I was there for an outpatient procedure. I have very good insurance, but there are still deductibles and co-pays. While I was being admitted, I was told that before they would do the procedure, I had to pay my deductible (No one had mentioned this beforehand). Fortunately, I was able to pay the $250, but while I was writing my check out, there was a Latino girl in obvious labor. She could not speak any English, and could not even read Spanish. Needless to say, she had no insurance, and was never asked to make a payment. Although, I feel it was the right thing to do to treat her and her baby, I was was a little miffed at how payment was demanded from me, and my insurance had already guaranteed over 90% of the total amount. What do others of you think about this?


I'd say that and deadbeat pillheads are two of the biggest causes of rising health costs.I don't like the thought of refusing medical care to anyone but you have got to draw the line with illegal immigrants somewhere.It is not the taxpayers burden to feed feed and doctor everyone,ecspecially those who aren't even citizens.Plus,look how bad the Federal government screws up every thing else(except for our great military.)Do you really want them messing with your health insurance?


Who said she was an illegal immigrant?



I didn't mean to imply that that girl herself was an illegal immigrant.I should have left the whole illegal immigrant part out of it.Deadbeats who go to the doctor with no intent to pay when the could let a minor injury ride its course drive the cost of healthcare up.That would be the same with Government funded healthcare as well.If a Private company thats only "service"can't operate without raising your rates every couple of years,then how do you think our brilliant Federal Government with all the "services"they try to provide will?In the end you will find alot higher taxes with less of a choice of what Doctor you see and no better if not worse care than you are receiving currently.
Here we have an impasse. This young girl was pregnant and in labor. I doubt she wanted an abortion, but if she had we would have wanted to deny it to her. We suspect she can't pay even though she may have made other arrangements. We would rather just let her sit outside and have the baby on the streets. Our ancestors did it years ago, why can't she? Maybe somebody will have mercy and come along to help her.

In cases of abortion the baby is innocent and shouldn't be aborted. But once she reaches full term we condemn her. It doesn't make sense to me.

As to doctors leaving the OB/GYN profession, it is an epidemic nationwide. OB/GYN's pay the highest amount of premiums on malpractice insurance. We have an onslaught of lawyers on the daytime television commercials telling us how to make a mint of money just by suing somebody. Then we wonder what is happening.

If we choose to stop and think about what is happening maybe people will go to the lawyers who are looking to help us rather than make a quick buck. The local area has a fine selection.

As to the hospitals and medical payment problems we choose to spend billions in Iraq rebuilding their economy rather than help our people here. Doesn't make sense to me. Those folks in Iraq are Iraqi citizens, not American. It only makes sense if we want Haliburton to take our money. Of course now we choose to help Cerberus and John Snow as well as Dick Cheney and Haliburton.

So, let's simply assume somebody who is different doesn't belong here. To hell with her because she is different. Hope the kid makes it. It isn't too cold today. Doesn't make sense, does it?
quote:
As to the hospitals and medical payment problems we choose to spend billions in Iraq rebuilding their economy rather than help our people here. Doesn't make sense to me. Those folks in Iraq are Iraqi citizens, not American. It only makes sense if we want Haliburton to take our money. Of course now we choose to help Cerberus and John Snow as well as Dick Cheney and Haliburton


This discussion has NOTHING to do with the situation in Iraq.This has nothing to with Haliburton.All I'm saying is that everytime the Federal Government gets involved in something that has long been handled by private sector they mess it up.(Example:Fannie Mae,Freeie Mac,Social Security and a whole list of things.)After all,you hear that Social Security will be gone before I retire.So would I be better off to take the money the government steals from my check every week and invest myself or trust them to save ift for me along with bail out every doggone big businees that can't stay afloat.Let's face it.Our current crop of politicians (democrats and republicans alike)coulld screw up a steel ball with a rubber mallet.My main point is giving government more control over our healthcare options ain't the way to fix it.
quote:
Originally posted by Backwoods:
quote:
As to the hospitals and medical payment problems we choose to spend billions in Iraq rebuilding their economy rather than help our people here. Doesn't make sense to me. Those folks in Iraq are Iraqi citizens, not American. It only makes sense if we want Haliburton to take our money. Of course now we choose to help Cerberus and John Snow as well as Dick Cheney and Haliburton


This discussion has NOTHING to do with the situation in Iraq.This has nothing to with Haliburton.All I'm saying is that everytime the Federal Government gets involved in something that has long been handled by private sector they mess it up.(Example:Fannie Mae,Freeie Mac,Social Security and a whole list of things.)After all,you hear that Social Security will be gone before I retire.So would I be better off to take the money the government steals from my check every week and invest myself or trust them to save ift for me along with bail out every doggone big businees that can't stay afloat.Let's face it.Our current crop of politicians (democrats and republicans alike)coulld screw up a steel ball with a rubber mallet.My main point is giving government more control over our healthcare options ain't the way to fix it.


I agree that our bunch could screw up a steel ball with a rubber mallet. The point I was making is the money that screwed up bunch is wasting that we could be using to help back home. How much could we help Social Security or Medicare with that money? How much could we cut your taxes if we weren't building up Iraq? If we talk about the Federal Government screwing things up then we can include a whole list of things. We just underwent a tremendous growth in the Federal Government over the past eight years. And we are still in a quagmire.

But back to the point, we can't afford to ignore the medical care crisis that I think we have before us. I think if we choose to do nothing we will see how it affects us.

I also happen to agree we should plug the holes in the borders. We were a country that took immigrants, but I am not sure how much we can afford. I just don't agree with labeling anyone just because they look different or are having problems. I wouldn't want to have to present my birth certificate every time I need medical help. Of course we won't revert to that.

We are a country of compassion and we are struggling how to deal with our compassion and our need to survive. However, if the government stopped "stealing" the money from your check I would think you will find an increase in crime. People will do drastic things to survive. Not everyone is lazy. Some are simply down on their luck or have mental problems.

You are very justified to be angry at the whole situation. It is frustrating to work and then see a subtraction from your "salary." Unfortunately that subtraction will happen anywhere you go in the world unless you can find all the loopholes. It is sad, but true.
quote:
The US Health Care system ranks 37th behind industrialized nations. We have our share of horror stories and Insurance Premiums as well as Medical Costs are becoming unaffordable for millions of Americans.

I believe the Health System needs to be Socialized but a private system can also compete.


The ranking were compiled by the UN and based on information offered by each country. No effort was made to verify the information. Socialist countries like Cuba aren't going to give you accurate information on their health care, that's why they ranked above the US. The rankings are seriously flawed and can't be taken seriously.

There is absolutely no reason why we should allow the government more power and control over our lives. This country was established so that the individual could be free from tyranny. Socialized health care is just one giant step closer to it.

If you want waiting times so long you'll die before you can receive treatment, reduced quality, and more government regulations and red tape than the IRS, then move to Canada. They've had socialized health care for quite a long time. That's why so many of them that can afford it come to the US for treatment.

In the UK, people would rather do their own dentistry at home rather than suffer for the extended periods of time it would take to see a dentist. That's a sign of pure desperation. Think about how much pain you would have to be in to do it yourself.

Our system has it's problems and we'll find solutions eventually. We're already getting closer with cash clinics in Walgreen's and other drug stores where you can get basic treatment for a set fee. The one way to completely ruin our health care system is to surrender power to the government and expect them to take care of us.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

NashBama:

The ranking were compiled by the UN and based on information offered by each country. No effort was made to verify the information. Socialist countries like Cuba aren't going to give you accurate information on their health care, that's why they ranked above the US. The rankings are seriously flawed and can't be taken seriously.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Says who Nash? You, the ranking mean nothing, the US is the one telling the truth. You can't even be taken seriously Nash. You ignore facts aand rely on fear and nonsense.

I know it makes it easier for you to believe your lies but the rest of the world is out there.

You ignore high premiums which millions of people are denied or struggle to meet and control of the system by Insurance Companies where $$$ is the bottom line. Drug Companies too.

You can ignore it but the Amerrican people are strugglling and have been waiting for reform for a couple decades now and it's getting worse. Last records show thast half the Bankruptcies in the US are due to medical costs.

The majority of people in Europe and Canada would not trade their system for ours.
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You ignore high premiums which millions of people are denied or struggle to meet and control of the system by Insurance Companies where $$$ is the bottom line. Drug Companies too.

And the bottom line for the US gov. is not money?One minute you are saying the war in Iraq was oil and money and then say 5 minutes later that we would be better off giving them our money to provide health care.I know,Iknow;the war is the work of that "evil Bush",but alot of the congressional idiots who you want to trust to provide you health care were for the war until it became politically unpopular.Lets face it,if it weren't for money and profit no one would have health care in any country.How many Doctors do you think we would have if a doctor made the same as sanitation workers.I just can not see how more government involvement would help our health care crisis.

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