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Jesus always had trouble trying to explain to the apostles that, while they proclaimed the establishment of the kingdom of God, the Father in heaven was not a king. At the time Jesus lived on earth and taught in the flesh, people knew mostly of kings and emperors in the governments of the nations, and the Jews had long contemplated the coming of the kingdom of God. For these and other reasons, the Master thought best to designate the spiritual brotherhood of man as the kingdom of heaven and the spirit head of this brotherhood as the Father in heaven. Never did Jesus refer to his Father as a king. In his intimate talks with the apostles he always referred to himself as the Son of Man and as their elder brother. He depicted all his followers as servants of mankind and messengers of the gospel of the kingdom.


Jesus never gave his apostles a systematic lesson concerning the personality and attributes of the Father in heaven. He never asked men to believe in his Father; he took it for granted they did. Jesus never belittled himself by offering arguments in proof of the reality of the Father. His teaching regarding the Father all centered in the declaration that he and the Father are one; that he who has seen the Son has seen the Father; that the Father, like the Son, knows all things; that only the Son really knows the Father, and he to whom the Son will reveal him; that he who knows the Son knows also the Father; and that the Father sent him into the world to reveal their combined natures and to show forth their conjoint work. He never made other pronouncements about his Father except to the woman of Samaria at Jacob's Well, when he declared, "God is spirit."


You learn about God from Jesus by observing the divinity of his life, not by depending on his teachings. From the life of the Master you may each assimilate that concept of God which represents the measure of your capacity to perceive realities spiritual and divine, truths real and eternal. The finite can never hope to comprehend the Infinite except as the Infinite was focalized in the time-space personality of the finite experience of the human life of Jesus of Nazareth.


Jesus well knew that God can be known only by the realities of experience; never can he be understood by the mere teaching of the mind. Jesus taught his apostles that, while they never could fully understand God, they could most certainly know him, even as they had known the Son of Man. You can know God, not by understanding what Jesus said, but by knowing what Jesus was. Jesus was a revelation of God.


Except when quoting the Hebrew scriptures, Jesus referred to Deity by only two names: God and Father. And when the Master made reference to his Father as God, he usually employed the Hebrew word signifying the plural God (the Trinity) and not the word Yahweh, which stood for the progressive conception of the tribal God of the Jews.


Jesus never called the Father a king, and he very much regretted that the Jewish hope for a restored kingdom and John's proclamation of a coming kingdom made it necessary for him to denominate his proposed spiritual brotherhood the kingdom of heaven. With the one exception—the declaration that "God is spirit" —Jesus never referred to Deity in any manner other than in terms descriptive of his own personal relationship with the First Source and Center of Paradise.


Jesus employed the word God to designate the idea of Deity and the word Father to designate the experience of knowing God. When the word Father is employed to denote God, it should be understood in its largest possible meaning. The word God cannot be defined and therefore stands for the infinite concept of the Father, while the term Father, being capable of partial definition, may be employed to represent the human concept of the divine Father as he is associated with man during the course of mortal existence.


Never did Jesus say, "Whoso has heard me has heard God." But he did say, "He who has seen me has seen the Father." To hear Jesus' teaching is not equivalent to knowing God, but to see Jesus is an experience which in itself is a revelation of the Father to the soul. The God of universes rules the far-flung creation, but it is the Father in heaven who sends forth his spirit to dwell within your minds.


Jesus is the spiritual lens in human likeness which makes visible to the material creature Him who is invisible. He is your elder brother who, in the flesh, makes known to you a Being of infinite attributes whom not even the celestial hosts can presume fully to understand. But all of this must consist in the personal experience of the individual believer. God who is spirit can be known only as a spiritual experience. God can be revealed to the finite sons of the material worlds, by the divine Son of the spiritual realms, only as a Father. You can know the Eternal as a Father; you can worship him as the God of universes, the infinite Creator of all existences.

Paper 169
The Urantia Book
Original Post

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quote:
Originally posted by alwilliams767:
Hi Vic...

How did this not make sense to you?

Just curious...

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I believe differently than you do, I study a different book.

I think it all comes down to what a person is most comfortable
with when they align their beliefs to what is spiritual to that person.

My opinion is my beliefs are more accurate than yours, so why don't
you believe the way I do? And on, and on, and on andonnnnnnnnnnn.

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Last edited by INVICTUS
quote:
Originally posted by JimiHendrix:
The problem here is with the word "belief". You would never ask, "Do you believe in electricity? Do you believe in gravity?" Belief is only necessary for concepts for which there is no evidence.

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Prove to me your no evidence? OK then,I dismiss you, you with no proof.


.
quote:
Originally posted by alwilliams767:
Hi Vic:

I am of ther opinion that we agree upon more than we disagree.

We both can agree that Jesus was a Son of God, correct?

So, if you care to, please tell me what in my post you disagree with.

I would be most interested in your answer.

PS.. saying it comes from a different source does not count as a review of content.

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Can we agree Jesus is the only Son of God, true God and the second person

of the Trinity?


.
Hi Al Williams,

You tell Vic, "Hi Vic: I am of the opinion that we agree upon more than we disagree. We both can agree that Jesus was a Son of God, correct?"

WRONG! And, this is the danger or New Age and Cult religions -- they all try to play "slight of hand" tricks with their teachings.

In reading your statement above, you are purposely trying to mislead folks. Many people would read that and say that Al agrees that Jesus is the Son of God -- when, in fact, you are agreeing with the Jehovah's Witnesses and saying that Jesus "was a Son of God." No, my Friend, Jesus Christ not only "was" -- He was, He is, and He ever will be THE SON OF GOD.

And, you neglect to tell us that "your God" and "your Jesus" are really extraterrestrial beings (as if any such thing ever existed) instead of the preexisting, eternal deity of the Bible.

You copy/paste from your New Age Urantia Book, which according to its supporters, was given to earthlings by extraterrestrials back in the first half of the 20th century. I do believe I am beginning to hear the theme song of Twilight Zone becoming louder.

Then, you tell Vic, "PS.. saying it comes from a different source does not count as a review of content."

Once again, WRONG! The source of our books make an eternal difference. Your book comes from supposed extraterrestrials. Our book, the Bible, the Written Word of God -- came from the Author Himself, God -- given through inspiration to 40 men, over a period of 1600 years -- yet, with one unified theme -- the salvation of man.

Your book seems to have come from the same place that Shirley Maclaine got her books.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by alwilliams767:
Hi Vic...
How did this not make sense to you? Just curious...

quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
I believe differently than you do, I study a different book.

Ok guys, I admit to being confused. What's the difference in the book?

Hi Chick,

Go back and read my previous post in this discussion. It answers your question.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
quote:
Originally posted by JimiHendrix:
The problem here is with the word "belief". You would never ask, "Do you believe in electricity? Do you believe in gravity?" Belief is only necessary for concepts for which there is no evidence.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Prove to me your no evidence? OK then,I dismiss you, you with no proof.


.


This is even dumber than your usual post. You cannot prove a negative. If you have evidence, give it. If you don't, shut up. What you "believe" is not relevant to discussion of anything. The only thing relevant is evidence, and, so far, I have seen none and don't expect to see any, since there is none.
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
quote:
Originally posted by alwilliams767:
Hi Vic:

I am of ther opinion that we agree upon more than we disagree.

We both can agree that Jesus was a Son of God, correct?

So, if you care to, please tell me what in my post you disagree with.

I would be most interested in your answer.

PS.. saying it comes from a different source does not count as a review of content.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Can we agree Jesus is the only Son of God, true God and the second person

of the Trinity?


.


Can we agree that imaginary beings can have imaginary children?
quote:
Originally posted by JimiHendrix:
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
quote:
Originally posted by JimiHendrix:
The problem here is with the word "belief". You would never ask, "Do you believe in electricity? Do you believe in gravity?" Belief is only necessary for concepts for which there is no evidence.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Prove to me your no evidence? OK then,I dismiss you, you with no proof.


.


This is even dumber than your usual post. You cannot prove a negative. If you have evidence, give it. If you don't, shut up. What you "believe" is not relevant to discussion of anything. The only thing relevant is evidence, and, so far, I have seen none and don't expect to see any, since there is none.


i have evidence. the fact that i can't use it to convince anyone else isn't my problem, because i'm not looking for evidence Smiler

you want proof, then you go find it, because otherwise you'd never accept it as proof.

i don't give a monkeys bald butt if someone else believes or not. no one is responsible for my soul, and i'm not responsible for any one else's.
your lack of belief is your deal, not mine, not vics, not Veeps, and not NSNS or jenn's.

fortunatly, the people who DO believe aren't mindless enough to be swayed by your pathetic jibes and jabs. you don't make any points, you just troll and whine, troll and whine.

at least Opie is amusing with some of his jabs... some of them are down right hysterical.

you're just kind of... sad - and an insult to the pesudonym you've chosen.
quote:
Originally posted by JimiHendrix:
quote:
Originally posted by INVICTUS:
quote:
Originally posted by JimiHendrix:
Prove to me your no evidence? OK then,I dismiss you, you with no proof.
.

This is even dumber than your usual post. You cannot prove a negative. If you have evidence, give it. If you don't, shut up. What you "believe" is not relevant to discussion of anything. The only thing relevant is evidence, and, so far, I have seen none and don't expect to see any, since there is none.

i have evidence. the fact that i can't use it to convince anyone else isn't my problem, because i'm not looking for evidence Smiler

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jemiP,,,,,,,,Why would your ignorant fool azz ask someone to prove something

THAT you can't prove or disprove. You can't do a thing but whine your silly

thesaurus licking thumping stupid, (can't think of anything to say) comments

like a four year old Bxxxx Boy. Hows that 3/8 drill bit working out

for you and dopie?

If you can't prove anything you need to shut the hell up or state a legitimate

comment.

You're a damm coward hiding behind your pansy ass tough talk, you snotty nose

armadillo placenta sucking sub human maggot.

Other than that, have a bad night.


.
Last edited by INVICTUS

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