quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
quote:
Originally posted by w_z:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:

Since you seem to not possess the basic knowledge of what a terrorist is, here in my definition.

Terrorist: A person or group of persons who engages in activities designed to elicit terror for a political, religious or idealistic reason. Typically terrorist acts are directed towards unarmed non-combatants, and may consist of an initial attack, followed up by threats or innuendo of continued attack, or may consist of many attacks related by type of attack, or victims, or locations.

My position is and has always been to locate, attack and destroy terrorists before they have an opportunity to attack the US. If that takes us being "police" and keeping track of the entire world, so be it.



No offense Sassy, but it looks like the terrists have already beaten you. You might want to finish the definition. If we have to change one thing about our way of life, surrender just one freedom, or change one law, then that gives the terrorists a victory. Sadly, they've had many. And I'm sick and tired of it!


No offense taken. They've not beaten me, or by extension, the US, or we would be, as I said earlier, praying five times a day while kneeling on a rug, facing Mecca. They haven't won the war...just a battle or two.

My analogy is that if we continue as before 9/11, it would be like a boxer standing in the ring with his hands down at his sides. When threatened with attack, he has to start off by protecting himself, bringing his hands up to a defensive position, crouching and backing towards the ropes, and then looking for vulnerable points to attack the enemy. If he continues to stand erect without any defensive position, he'll eventually be annihilated.

If the US does not take a proactive approach towards eradicating terrorists, we'll suffer attacks like 9/11 forever.



I like the boxing analogy there Sassy. But the key description there would be "defensive". That's why we have a defense. To defend. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe we should have a Dept. of Offense!
quote:
Originally posted by w_z:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by w_z:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:


You need to change all the "WE"s in you rant to "I"s. I deal with thousands of Soldiers a year who would be completely embarrased by your comments. While your service is to be commended, it embarrases me that another member of the same Army I belong to would spew the crap you are spewing. By the way, you were there because your CiC told you to. If you can't or don't agree wtih that you need to get out of the military.



WHAT? Are soldiers not people too? Are soldiers not allowed to think? I'm sure some might sign up to be killing machines. But I'm also sure that some, and hopefully most, sign up to honorably defend their country! All I can say is thank God we've got people like mrbradg in OUR military! I also know that there's many, many more that share his view.


I never said he wasn't entitled to his opinion. His comment turned into a group sentiment with his continued use of "WE". He also made some very nasty comments concerning this country (ie, I hate this gov't) that aren't congruent with military service. He swore to follow the orders of the commanders above him. If he has an issue with that then he needs to get out. I will also stand by my statement that the large majority of Soldiers WOULD NOT agree with him.

PS. Why is it that so many people think that the only reason we went ot Iraq was WMD's? That was only one of many reasons that we went there.



Yeah, but he never said he hated this country! I can agree with him about THIS gov't. This government ain't working! Plain and simple. This government did give us the answer as to why anyone would want to attack us like they did on 9-11. One need look no further than Iraq!


What does what we are doing in Iraq right now have to do with the reason the terrorist attacked us on 9-11? I assure you that if you go to Iraq and ask all the population, not just the supposedly "random 1000 individuals" that the pollster talk to, you would find that a huge majority appreciate everything we have done to help them be free of a tyrant. the only people who are against that are the other tyrants who are afraid that they might be next.
quote:
Originally posted by w_z:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
quote:
Originally posted by w_z:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:

Since you seem to not possess the basic knowledge of what a terrorist is, here in my definition.

Terrorist: A person or group of persons who engages in activities designed to elicit terror for a political, religious or idealistic reason. Typically terrorist acts are directed towards unarmed non-combatants, and may consist of an initial attack, followed up by threats or innuendo of continued attack, or may consist of many attacks related by type of attack, or victims, or locations.

My position is and has always been to locate, attack and destroy terrorists before they have an opportunity to attack the US. If that takes us being "police" and keeping track of the entire world, so be it.



No offense Sassy, but it looks like the terrists have already beaten you. You might want to finish the definition. If we have to change one thing about our way of life, surrender just one freedom, or change one law, then that gives the terrorists a victory. Sadly, they've had many. And I'm sick and tired of it!


No offense taken. They've not beaten me, or by extension, the US, or we would be, as I said earlier, praying five times a day while kneeling on a rug, facing Mecca. They haven't won the war...just a battle or two.

My analogy is that if we continue as before 9/11, it would be like a boxer standing in the ring with his hands down at his sides. When threatened with attack, he has to start off by protecting himself, bringing his hands up to a defensive position, crouching and backing towards the ropes, and then looking for vulnerable points to attack the enemy. If he continues to stand erect without any defensive position, he'll eventually be annihilated.

If the US does not take a proactive approach towards eradicating terrorists, we'll suffer attacks like 9/11 forever.



I like the boxing analogy there Sassy. But the key description there would be "defensive". That's why we have a defense. To defend. Maybe that's the problem. Maybe we should have a Dept. of Offense!


Don't forget that the best defense is a strong offense.

Defense never wins any type of confrontation...ball game, war or boxing match. Defense can prevent a loss, but can never win.
quote:
Originally posted by w_z:
quote:
Originally posted by mrbradg:


"Whatever it takes to keep WMDs out of the hands of dictators and terrorists works for me. As long as terrorists keep being prevented from attacking here on US soil, and killing US citizens."

I laughed when I read this. Not a laughing matter but I still laughed. You have no real grasp of the cost of this war that was a lie. ALMOST 4,000 American lifes. Hundred of 1,000's of Iraqi lives. You scream "terrorists", and you have no idea what that really means. I can't even think there are people like you to think this war is worth it. It's so funny how we invaded Iraq, but we don't bother with the other 30 evil dictators in the world that kill 1,000's of there people every year. IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO POLICE THE WORLD. Our fathers have warned us of this.

I was in the Iraq war from the very beginning. I was not frightened to be there other than the "threat" of chemical weapons. That's some scary sh**. After WE, the US Military found out there were none there, we sat there in the sand and said to ourselves WTF. Why are we here. Let's leave right now. We get attacked EVERYDAY, I have lost friends for NO REASON!!! People like you are the reason I hate this government. You are brainwashed and you have no idea. Once you do your research and get out and talk to people your mind will change. We are still there because of cookie eaters like you that will no get off there butt and read and research. People like you make me sick. I think of my buddies that won't come home to there wife and kids every time I hear from sick people like you. Maybe you should do the same.



First, I would like to thank you for your service to our country! And I would also like to thank you for further defending our country with your words. It is a great comfort to me to know that we have people like you in our military! People would be wise to heed your words. Kind of like "straight from the horses mouth" if you ask me. Who better to know why we're supposed to be in Iraq? It's clear to me that you are on our side. And I would just like you to know that I'm on your side my friend! Thank you!


Thank you for your kind words. I find myself struck with amazement when people will not even listen to me and anything I say. I'm not 100% right on everything I say and I know that. I strive for the facts though. I will never say anything that I have heard via the media. I have learned so much from my experiences and the people I have been around. I voted for Mr. Bush in 2000. I was very much a strong Republican. I even paid for a membership to Rush Limbaugh 24/7!!! I’m not a Democrat or a Republican. Independent I guess you could call it. But, what I do know is that I can see SO much clearer now that I have know what is true and right. I will be honest; I got most of my news from Fox and Rush. I never took out the time to look at the other side of things. It was the thought process of we are right and they are wrong. 100%. They hate us because of our FREEDOM!!! Better over there than our soil!!! 9/11, Saddam, 9/11, Saddam, We were attacked first!! Our biggest problem in this world today is global jihadism. Bull sh** Bull sh** Bull sh**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HAVE SEEN BOTH SIDES!! GET OFF ALL YOUR PARTYS WAGONS AND LOOK AT THE REAL STORY!! I’m so tired of bullying and name calling.

Got off track there.  Thank you for supporting me in the forum of confused souls.
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by w_z:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by w_z:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:


You need to change all the "WE"s in you rant to "I"s. I deal with thousands of Soldiers a year who would be completely embarrased by your comments. While your service is to be commended, it embarrases me that another member of the same Army I belong to would spew the crap you are spewing. By the way, you were there because your CiC told you to. If you can't or don't agree wtih that you need to get out of the military.



WHAT? Are soldiers not people too? Are soldiers not allowed to think? I'm sure some might sign up to be killing machines. But I'm also sure that some, and hopefully most, sign up to honorably defend their country! All I can say is thank God we've got people like mrbradg in OUR military! I also know that there's many, many more that share his view.


I never said he wasn't entitled to his opinion. His comment turned into a group sentiment with his continued use of "WE". He also made some very nasty comments concerning this country (ie, I hate this gov't) that aren't congruent with military service. He swore to follow the orders of the commanders above him. If he has an issue with that then he needs to get out. I will also stand by my statement that the large majority of Soldiers WOULD NOT agree with him.

PS. Why is it that so many people think that the only reason we went ot Iraq was WMD's? That was only one of many reasons that we went there.



Yeah, but he never said he hated this country! I can agree with him about THIS gov't. This government ain't working! Plain and simple. This government did give us the answer as to why anyone would want to attack us like they did on 9-11. One need look no further than Iraq!


What does what we are doing in Iraq right now have to do with the reason the terrorist attacked us on 9-11? I assure you that if you go to Iraq and ask all the population, not just the supposedly "random 1000 individuals" that the pollster talk to, you would find that a huge majority appreciate everything we have done to help them be free of a tyrant. the only people who are against that are the other tyrants who are afraid that they might be next.


NO THEY DON'T WANT US THERE!! I have seen and talked to them daily. Have you? I bet you sit at a desk all day and you know what the hell you are talking about. The number is almost impossible to get right but the estimates are around 100,000 civilian’s dead there. No, that’s not the enemy my friend. Now, let's really think if the majority wants us there. Saddam never harbored terrorists. He executed them! I know this guy was a horrible dictator. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be over thrown. I think they are better with him gone. But, ALL of this should have been done differently. My great grandfather is a retired 3 Star General. I would love for us to sit down with him and you can hear what I have to say and what he says about this. In the mean time I might even bring my buddy that is disabled from a roadside bomb. You talk with NO experience and a big mouth and ego. You just stay in your box thinking you "know". I feel sorry for you.
Also, don't attack my service. I am proud to serve our country. I love what we are built on. You split on me with your words just because I disagree with what is going on. Because I challenge what we are doing with peoples LIVES you tell me I shouldn't be in? MY GOD!! Listen to yourself.

I have ETSed years ago for your information that I'm sure you’re happy to hear.
quote:
Originally posted by mrbradg:


"Whatever it takes to keep WMDs out of the hands of dictators and terrorists works for me. As long as terrorists keep being prevented from attacking here on US soil, and killing US citizens."

I laughed when I read this. Not a laughing matter but I still laughed. You have no real grasp of the cost of this war that was a lie. ALMOST 4,000 American lifes. Hundred of 1,000's of Iraqi lives. You scream "terrorists", and you have no idea what that really means. I can't even think there are people like you to think this war is worth it. It's so funny how we invaded Iraq, but we don't bother with the other 30 evil dictators in the world that kill 1,000's of there people every year. IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO POLICE THE WORLD. Our fathers have warned us of this.

I was in the Iraq war from the very beginning. I was not frightened to be there other than the "threat" of chemical weapons. That's some scary sh**. After WE, the US Military found out there were none there, we sat there in the sand and said to ourselves WTF. Why are we here. Let's leave right now. We get attacked EVERYDAY, I have lost friends for NO REASON!!! People like you are the reason I hate this government. You are brainwashed and you have no idea. Once you do your research and get out and talk to people your mind will change. We are still there because of cookie eaters like you that will no get off there butt and read and research. People like you make me sick. I think of my buddies that won't come home to there wife and kids every time I hear from sick people like you. Maybe you should do the same.




Thank you for your kind words. I find myself struck with amazement when people will not even listen to me and anything I say. I'm not 100% right on everything I say and I know that. I strive for the facts though. I will never say anything that I have heard via the media. I have learned so much from my experiences and the people I have been around. I voted for Mr. Bush in 2000. I was very much a strong Republican. I even paid for a membership to Rush Limbaugh 24/7!!! I’m not a Democrat or a Republican. Independent I guess you could call it. But, what I do know is that I can see SO much clearer now that I have know what is true and right. I will be honest; I got most of my news from Fox and Rush. I never took out the time to look at the other side of things. It was the thought process of we are right and they are wrong. 100%. They hate us because of our FREEDOM!!! Better over there than our soil!!! 9/11, Saddam, 9/11, Saddam, We were attacked first!! Our biggest problem in this world today is global jihadism. Bull sh** Bull sh** Bull sh**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HAVE SEEN BOTH SIDES!! GET OFF ALL YOUR PARTYS WAGONS AND LOOK AT THE REAL STORY!! I’m so tired of bullying and name calling.

Got off track there.  Thank you for supporting me in the forum of confused souls.[/QUOTE]

quote:
Originally posted by mrbradg:NO THEY DON'T WANT US THERE!! I have seen and talked to them daily. Have you? I bet you sit at a desk all day and you know what the hell you are talking about. The number is almost impossible to get right but the estimates are around 100,000 civilian’s dead there. No, that’s not the enemy my friend. Now, let's really think if the majority wants us there. Saddam never harbored terrorists. He executed them! I know this guy was a horrible dictator. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be over thrown. I think they are better with him gone. But, ALL of this should have been done differently. My great grandfather is a retired 3 Star General. I would love for us to sit down with him and you can hear what I have to say and what he says about this. In the mean time I might even bring my buddy that is disabled from a roadside bomb. You talk with NO experience and a big mouth and ego. You just stay in your box thinking you "know". I feel sorry for you.
Also, don't attack my service. I am proud to serve our country. I love what we are built on. You split on me with your words just because I disagree with what is going on. Because I challenge what we are doing with peoples LIVES you tell me I shouldn't be in? MY GOD!! Listen to yourself.

I have ETSed years ago for your information that I'm sure you’re happy to hear.



CHECKMATE! Who am I to argue with this?
Ok, Ok....Let's say Sadaam shipped out the WMD's or better yet...they were never there. We got the intel and invaded. Too soon in my opinion...I don't think we finished in Afgan before spreading our resources too thin by going to Iraq.
But here's the thing....name any war...ANY AND EVERY WAR throughout history, do you think every American was onboard? Every soilder? Of course not...but now when thinking of those wars, think of where they were fought. Do we still have military presence in each one of those places? In every war after we dessimated a country, have we not stayed for many years and rebuilt them, making them,by the way, far better then they were before? Of course we have. The problem is, every new generation forgets about the wars fought in generations past...forgotten that as many, and many more in some instances, sacrifices were made to win decisively and quickly. Over politicizing, and crackpot lying internet bloggers have pussified this country to the point we don't have the will or the stomach to finish what we've started. Like I said in a post earlier, study history then come back and find a war where there was nothing but blue skies and sunshine, rosepedals and dewy meadows....you can't.
Disapprove of this war's beginning if you want, but we are there....is just up and leaving really the best way to finish it? I don't know the best way, but I know that is the worst.
quote:
Originally posted by w_z:
quote:
Originally posted by mrbradg:


"Whatever it takes to keep WMDs out of the hands of dictators and terrorists works for me. As long as terrorists keep being prevented from attacking here on US soil, and killing US citizens."

I laughed when I read this. Not a laughing matter but I still laughed. You have no real grasp of the cost of this war that was a lie. ALMOST 4,000 American lifes. Hundred of 1,000's of Iraqi lives. You scream "terrorists", and you have no idea what that really means. I can't even think there are people like you to think this war is worth it. It's so funny how we invaded Iraq, but we don't bother with the other 30 evil dictators in the world that kill 1,000's of there people every year. IT'S NOT OUR JOB TO POLICE THE WORLD. Our fathers have warned us of this.

I was in the Iraq war from the very beginning. I was not frightened to be there other than the "threat" of chemical weapons. That's some scary sh**. After WE, the US Military found out there were none there, we sat there in the sand and said to ourselves WTF. Why are we here. Let's leave right now. We get attacked EVERYDAY, I have lost friends for NO REASON!!! People like you are the reason I hate this government. You are brainwashed and you have no idea. Once you do your research and get out and talk to people your mind will change. We are still there because of cookie eaters like you that will no get off there butt and read and research. People like you make me sick. I think of my buddies that won't come home to there wife and kids every time I hear from sick people like you. Maybe you should do the same.




Thank you for your kind words. I find myself struck with amazement when people will not even listen to me and anything I say. I'm not 100% right on everything I say and I know that. I strive for the facts though. I will never say anything that I have heard via the media. I have learned so much from my experiences and the people I have been around. I voted for Mr. Bush in 2000. I was very much a strong Republican. I even paid for a membership to Rush Limbaugh 24/7!!! I’m not a Democrat or a Republican. Independent I guess you could call it. But, what I do know is that I can see SO much clearer now that I have know what is true and right. I will be honest; I got most of my news from Fox and Rush. I never took out the time to look at the other side of things. It was the thought process of we are right and they are wrong. 100%. They hate us because of our FREEDOM!!! Better over there than our soil!!! 9/11, Saddam, 9/11, Saddam, We were attacked first!! Our biggest problem in this world today is global jihadism. Bull sh** Bull sh** Bull sh**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HAVE SEEN BOTH SIDES!! GET OFF ALL YOUR PARTYS WAGONS AND LOOK AT THE REAL STORY!! I’m so tired of bullying and name calling.

Got off track there.  Thank you for supporting me in the forum of confused souls.


quote:
Originally posted by mrbradg:NO THEY DON'T WANT US THERE!! I have seen and talked to them daily. Have you? I bet you sit at a desk all day and you know what the hell you are talking about. The number is almost impossible to get right but the estimates are around 100,000 civilian’s dead there. No, that’s not the enemy my friend. Now, let's really think if the majority wants us there. Saddam never harbored terrorists. He executed them! I know this guy was a horrible dictator. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be over thrown. I think they are better with him gone. But, ALL of this should have been done differently. My great grandfather is a retired 3 Star General. I would love for us to sit down with him and you can hear what I have to say and what he says about this. In the mean time I might even bring my buddy that is disabled from a roadside bomb. You talk with NO experience and a big mouth and ego. You just stay in your box thinking you "know". I feel sorry for you.
Also, don't attack my service. I am proud to serve our country. I love what we are built on. You split on me with your words just because I disagree with what is going on. Because I challenge what we are doing with peoples LIVES you tell me I shouldn't be in? MY GOD!! Listen to yourself.

I have ETSed years ago for your information that I'm sure you’re happy to hear.



CHECKMATE! Who am I to argue with this?[/QUOTE]

You have NO idea what I know concerning Iraq. Have I been in country? No, I was called up to go with the 4ID through Turkey (we all know how that went). So instead I worked to process over 19000 Soldiers M40 mask before they went over. I am still working here at the installation that in the largest MOB station in the Army. I have spoken to literally thousands of Soldiers who have been to Iraq, including around 100 from my unit. I have yet to have ONE Soldier piss and moan like you have on this forum. To a man (and a good many women) they have ALL been proud of their service and the good we are doing for that country. I refuse to sit by and let you slander the men and women that process through this installation with your "WE" comments. You can speak for yourself, but don't attempt to speak for them.
Mr Authority passes out masks here safe and sound on his home front soil and has SPOKEN ,,now we all can sleep better at nite and i am sure this gives all those soldiers a warm fuzzy feeling. Sorry but active duty miltary are taught NOT to speak against any action they/US military are involved,,so i doubt very seriously if they are going to have a "sharing" session of negative thoughts with you or anyone who might possibly be in a posion to create problems for them over their TRUE opnions of that war.
It is the right for every grunt to gripe.They are just not the whiners that you libs hoped they would be.
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
Mr Authority passes out masks here safe and sound on his home front soil and has SPOKEN ,,now we all can sleep better at nite and i am sure this gives all those soldiers a warm fuzzy feeling. Sorry but active duty miltary are taught NOT to speak against any action they/US military are involved,,so i doubt very seriously if they are going to have a "sharing" session of negative thoughts with you or anyone who might possibly be in a posion to create problems for them over their TRUE opnions of that war.
quote:
It is the right for every grunt to gripe.They are just not the whiners that you libs hoped they would be.


LOL,so sorry to dissappoint your already designated thoughts,but i have voted more republican,infact I have only voted for a lib a couple of times. I try to weigh the candidate,not the party
So you are a rino(republican in name only).
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
quote:
It is the right for every grunt to gripe.They are just not the whiners that you libs hoped they would be.


LOL,so sorry to dissappoint your already designated thoughts,but i have voted more republican,infact I have only voted for a lib a couple of times. I try to weigh the candidate,not the party
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
Mr Authority passes out masks here safe and sound on his home front soil and has SPOKEN ,,now we all can sleep better at nite and i am sure this gives all those soldiers a warm fuzzy feeling. Sorry but active duty miltary are taught NOT to speak against any action they/US military are involved,,so i doubt very seriously if they are going to have a "sharing" session of negative thoughts with you or anyone who might possibly be in a posion to create problems for them over their TRUE opnions of that war.


You are clueless to what the military can and will talk about. I'm in the service just like they are. They have absolutely no reason to lie to me or sugarcoat whats going on over there. But you go on believing what you want. I'll continue to listen to the guys who are coming back from theater, especially the ones from my own unit.
smurph,
do this, if you have family and friends in the military ask them this question...

"Do you wish we had never invaded Iraq, or do you wish the pussified libs in this country would get off your back and let you do your job effectively without armchair quarterbacking after ever bomb goes off?"

Any military man or woman I've spoken to who has doubts about being in Iraq don't doubt the nobility of the cause, or the good that a decisive vicotry would bring....their doubts are about pussified idiots in America not getting behind them. Pussified Americans who call their own country the bad guy...who say we are to blame for 9/11...who have their heads so far up their a$ses they can't realize how freakin good they have it in this country...who can't realize that because they have it so good, that's whay these crackheads want to kill us.
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and we invaded because the Bush bunch claimed, contrary to the evidence, that Saddam had WMD and a connection to 9/11.

In the first video bin Laden released after 9/11 he states the deaths of a million Iraqi's due to the US/British imposed UN sanctions and occupation of Palestine as crimes of the US. In a later tape, censored in the US, he states he got the idea to attack the Tower as far back as 1982 with Israelis invasion of Lebanon and it's siege and destruction of Beirut. When he saw the buildings burning he said he pictured the WTC burning.

He has also stated they want to drive the West from the Mideast which has dominated and controlled the regio, for the oil, since WW1.

The majority of the US troops are lied too as to the reasons they are there but when they get there polls show the majority feel they should leave. Generals and former Generals have also stated we should withdraw as has the Baker/Hamilton report.
HEAR!HEAR!
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
smurph,
do this, if you have family and friends in the military ask them this question...

"Do you wish we had never invaded Iraq, or do you wish the pussified libs in this country would get off your back and let you do your job effectively without armchair quarterbacking after ever bomb goes off?"

Any military man or woman I've spoken to who has doubts about being in Iraq don't doubt the nobility of the cause, or the good that a decisive vicotry would bring....their doubts are about pussified idiots in America not getting behind them. Pussified Americans who call their own country the bad guy...who say we are to blame for 9/11...who have their heads so far up their a$ses they can't realize how freakin good they have it in this country...who can't realize that because they have it so good, that's whay these crackheads want to kill us.
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and we invaded because the Bush bunch claimed, contrary to the evidence, that Saddam had WMD and a connection to 9/11.

In the first video bin Laden released after 9/11 he states the deaths of a million Iraqi's due to the US/British imposed UN sanctions and occupation of Palestine as crimes of the US. In a later tape, censored in the US, he states he got the idea to attack the Tower as far back as 1982 with Israelis invasion of Lebanon and it's siege and destruction of Beirut. When he saw the buildings burning he said he pictured the WTC burning.

He has also stated they want to drive the West from the Mideast which has dominated and controlled the regio, for the oil, since WW1.

The majority of the US troops are lied too as to the reasons they are there but when they get there polls show the majority feel they should leave. Generals and former Generals have also stated we should withdraw as has the Baker/Hamilton report.


It's funny that you say our troops have been lied to, yet you fall for all the nonsense the far left loons feed you.
I, nor anyone else I know of ever said Sadaam had any part in 9/11. However, if you read actual intel released by our military, you'll see that Iraq was a haven for terrorists...training facilities were found in Bagdad. Intel told George Bush(and Bill Clinton by the way) that Sadaam had WMD's. Did they ever exist or were they shipped out? Well if you listen to the interview Jon Stewart did on The Daily Show with a top ranking official in Sadaam's former Air Force, he says they were shipped out.
As for invading Iraq, I've already said I thought we still had work to do in Afgan and should have waited. Bottom line though, Bush said that we were gonna kill bad guys who want to kill Americans. Sadaam had thumbed his nose at the UN(what a joke) for a couple of decades now and Bush said enough!! We took his punk a$s out and the world is better with him in hell.
The reason this has been a tough war is because #1, ALL WAR IS HARD, HORRIBLE, AND TRAGIC!!!!! #2 is stated clearly in my previous post...pussified, treasonous, dimwitted Americans that don't have the intestinal fortitude to allow our military to do what it takes to dominate a war for a decisive victory.
Leaving Iraq now would be a disaster...especially since there has been noticable(even to libs) improvement there.
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

It's funny that you say our troops have been lied to, yet you fall for all the nonsense the far left loons feed you.
I, nor anyone else I know of ever said Sadaam had any part in 9/11. However, if you read actual intel released by our military, you'll see that Iraq was a haven for terrorists...training facilities were found in Bagdad. Intel told George Bush(and Bill Clinton by the way) that Sadaam had WMD's. Did they ever exist or were they shipped out? Well if you listen to the interview Jon Stewart did on The Daily Show with a top ranking official in Sadaam's former Air Force, he says they were shipped out.
As for invading Iraq, I've already said I thought we still had work to do in Afgan and should have waited. Bottom line though, Bush said that we were gonna kill bad guys who want to kill Americans. Sadaam had thumbed his nose at the UN(what a joke) for a couple of decades now and Bush said enough!! We took his punk a$s out and the world is better with him in hell.
The reason this has been a tough war is because #1, ALL WAR IS HARD, HORRIBLE, AND TRAGIC!!!!! #2 is stated clearly in my previous post...pussified, treasonous, dimwitted Americans that don't have the intestinal fortitude to allow our military to do what it takes to dominate a war for a decisive victory.
Leaving Iraq now would be a disaster...especially since there has been noticable(even to libs) improvement there.



I'm sorry but your post just reeks of ignorance. You say no one ever said that Saddam had any part in 9-11. Your lil bush boy more than implied it on many occasions! And then there were those 16 words in his state of the union address in 2002. **** lies! But those words weren't meant for us on the left. They were meant for the gullible fools on the right to get behind the idiot king and go to war by God! Gotta get that **** oil! You say that training facilities were found in Bagdad. Well, first, it's spelled Baghdad. And second, do you mean terrorist training facilities? I've never seen or heard a credible report that says that terrorist training facilities were found in Baghdad. And finally, you say, and I quote:

"The reason this has been a tough war is because #1, ALL WAR IS HARD, HORRIBLE, AND TRAGIC!!!!! #2 is stated clearly in my previous post...pussified, treasonous, dimwitted Americans that don't have the intestinal fortitude to allow our military to do what it takes to dominate a war for a decisive victory."

They've had nearly 5 years to have a decisive victory. Who's stopping them? And please tell me. What is a decisive victory? The WMD's are gone and the bad guy is dead. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! GET A CLUE!
quote:
Originally posted by w_z:
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

It's funny that you say our troops have been lied to, yet you fall for all the nonsense the far left loons feed you.
I, nor anyone else I know of ever said Sadaam had any part in 9/11. However, if you read actual intel released by our military, you'll see that Iraq was a haven for terrorists...training facilities were found in Bagdad. Intel told George Bush(and Bill Clinton by the way) that Sadaam had WMD's. Did they ever exist or were they shipped out? Well if you listen to the interview Jon Stewart did on The Daily Show with a top ranking official in Sadaam's former Air Force, he says they were shipped out.
As for invading Iraq, I've already said I thought we still had work to do in Afgan and should have waited. Bottom line though, Bush said that we were gonna kill bad guys who want to kill Americans. Sadaam had thumbed his nose at the UN(what a joke) for a couple of decades now and Bush said enough!! We took his punk a$s out and the world is better with him in hell.
The reason this has been a tough war is because #1, ALL WAR IS HARD, HORRIBLE, AND TRAGIC!!!!! #2 is stated clearly in my previous post...pussified, treasonous, dimwitted Americans that don't have the intestinal fortitude to allow our military to do what it takes to dominate a war for a decisive victory.
Leaving Iraq now would be a disaster...especially since there has been noticable(even to libs) improvement there.



I'm sorry but your post just reeks of ignorance. You say no one ever said that Saddam had any part in 9-11. Your lil bush boy more than implied it on many occasions! And then there were those 16 words in his state of the union address in 2002. **** lies! But those words weren't meant for us on the left. They were meant for the gullible fools on the right to get behind the idiot king and go to war by God! Gotta get that **** oil! You say that training facilities were found in Bagdad. Well, first, it's spelled Baghdad. And second, do you mean terrorist training facilities? I've never seen or heard a credible report that says that terrorist training facilities were found in Baghdad. And finally, you say, and I quote:

"The reason this has been a tough war is because #1, ALL WAR IS HARD, HORRIBLE, AND TRAGIC!!!!! #2 is stated clearly in my previous post...pussified, treasonous, dimwitted Americans that don't have the intestinal fortitude to allow our military to do what it takes to dominate a war for a decisive victory."

They've had nearly 5 years to have a decisive victory. Who's stopping them? And please tell me. What is a decisive victory? The WMD's are gone and the bad guy is dead. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! GET A CLUE!


Yes, Bush "implied" it. Ya know what, he's a politician...that's what they do. And you are correct, no "credible" report says that...at least not in the mainstream media. Next time I post here it will be with the link to a website that tells of the evidence gathered by our military since they arrived there...and thanx for the spelling lesson...amazing.

YOU'RE RIGHT...THEY'VE HAD FIVE YEARS!!! Five years to listen to weak stomached and minded folks like yourself whining about the wars we fight...this country has had whiners about ever war ever fought. Just easier to hear it in today's technology age. This may be in part about oil....if it were to the extent you libs obsess about, then yes, it would be over...wouldve been years ago. You say, and I quote:

"What is a decisive victory? The WMD's are gone and the bad guy is dead. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! GET A CLUE!"

Look in history, study every war America has won. #1. You knew it was done(big bomb on Japan for example) #2. Now name one of those locations where our military won the war, then just turned around and left. NEVER...NEVER HAS HAPPENED ONCE IN HISTORY...SO YOU NEED TO GET A CLUE. You're right, bad guy is dead, but as in every war we rebuild the country we cripple, we make it better...in this case there are bad guys...you know, those towel-heads who like to blow themselves up in a crowd of people...yeah, those guys. To rebuild and stabalize we have to kill as many of those a$sholes as we can.
You asked "Who's stopping them". Second guessing, sniveling, misinformed libs...that's who. Libs want a politically correct war...want to make sure no Muslims feel slighted in anyway in our country than to kill the radical Muslims who want us all dead.
Heh! I guess I'll just go ahead and give you the last word here then. Seeing how you just pretty much agreed with me. And I'd like to just go ahead and apologize for not letting them win the "war". Didn't know I was doing that. Permission granted!
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Peter Rielly:

It's funny that you say our troops have been lied to, yet you fall for all the nonsense the far left loons feed you.
I, nor anyone else I know of ever said Sadaam had any part in 9/11. However, if you read actual intel released by our military, you'll see that Iraq was a haven for terrorists...training facilities were found in Bagdad. Intel told George Bush(and Bill Clinton by the way) that Sadaam had WMD's. Did they ever exist or were they shipped out? Well if you listen to the interview Jon Stewart did on The Daily Show with a top ranking official in Sadaam's former Air Force, he says they were shipped out.
As for invading Iraq, I've already said I thought we still had work to do in Afgan and should have waited. Bottom line though, Bush said that we were gonna kill bad guys who want to kill Americans. Sadaam had thumbed his nose at the UN(what a joke) for a couple of decades now and Bush said enough!! We took his punk a$s out and the world is better with him in hell.
The reason this has been a tough war is because #1, ALL WAR IS HARD, HORRIBLE, AND TRAGIC!!!!! #2 is stated clearly in my previous post...pussified, treasonous, dimwitted Americans that don't have the intestinal fortitude to allow our military to do what it takes to dominate a war for a decisive victory.
Leaving Iraq now would be a disaster...especially since there has been noticable(even to libs) improvement there.

________________________________________________________________________________________________



As w_z points out, Bush and company tied Saddam and bin Laden together and warned that Saddam would give WMD, (which he didn't have) to al Qaeda. (who are enemies of Saddam)

Saddam was secular and had no tolerance for religious extremists, especially ones that wanted to overthrow his government and replace it with their own fundamentals state.

Iraq was not a "haven for terrorists" and there were no al Qaeda in Baghdad or under Saddam's Iraq. There actually were two camps in the North in Kurdish territory, protected by the (illegal) US/Britain "No Fly" Zone.

The CIA never said Saddam positively had WMD. Their evidence said that it was doubtful.
Saddam's programs were destroyed after the first Gulf War and verified by UN inspectors.

Cheney created his own special Iraq task force that "cherry picked" information that supported their claim. They by passed normal CIA channels and forced out or fired CIA officials that disagreed with them. Mel Goodman and Ray McGovern are two that have spoken out publicly.

Saddam had cooperated fully with the UN and never "thumbed his nose" at the UN. He threw the inspectors out in the late 1990s when he caught them spying and giving military coordinates to the US and Britain who were then "bombing them." Even Scott Ritter complained about the US behavior.

If Bush and Cheney and US intelligence believed Saddam had moved his WMD somewhere else they would have spoken up. Instead they have declared that there is no WMD program in Iraq. The US was monitoring Saddam closely and if there were any evidence they would have acted immediately. It's not like Saddam "flushed them down the toilet" when he heard Bush and Cheney "knocking" at his door.

The American people and the left have had no influence on the war what so ever and Bush has gotten all the money he wanted from the beginning. Which of course he also lied about the amount needed from the start, as the progressive media pointed out at the time. It was Bush and Rumsfeld that did not even want more troops in the beginning and ignored assessments calling for more troops. They believed Iraq would be a "cake walk." They are bogged down in a quagmire as the left warned they would be. Even Bush Sr knew this would happen and it is why he did not invade in 91.

The US and the world is not "better off" at all and terrorism and hatred of the US is growing since the Iraq invasion and the war crimes we have committed there.

The right was lied to by Bush and you were wrong. Now you are trying to blame the liberals instead of the ones that lied and led you into this disaster.
For myself it wasn't about WMD. It was about making someone pay who is most likely responsible for the deaths of Americans on American soil in the WTC bombings.

It came down to two possible parties, Afganistan and Iraq. Since Iraq openly held terrorist training camps specificaly targeting America and the Iraqi government paid the families of suicide terrorist, Iraq was the most obvious government to take out. Yes, the trainig camps were in Afganistan too but not openly government sponsered like in Iraq.

Somebody had to pay for the WTC bombings. Iraq was the most logical. The debate about why and who we attacked is NOT the debate topic rather,it is the attack plan it self.

It is becoming more and more apparent that not enough troops were there to do the job right. I still think 30K to 50K should be sent to Iraq to finish the job. Then get out.

cowboy
The people who should pay for the 9/11 attack are the people who planned and ordered it, bin Laden and al Qaeda. Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Saddam and bin Laden were enemies. There were no al Qaeda camps under Saddam. There were two in the north of Iraq protected by the US "No Fly Zone."

Bin Laden and the al Qaeda camps were in Afghanistan and when the US invaded Bush allowed bin laden to escape by not pursuing him and instead attacking Iraq.

International cooperation and police work had made dents in al Qaeda's leadership and could have tracked him down and brought him to justice. Instead hatred of the US has grown around the world and so has al Qaeda and extermists becasue of the US crimes and atrocities in Iraq.

The real reason Bush attacked Iraq was to set up bases and control the region and the oil. In Cheney's energy task force, before 9/11, he met with oil coporation heads. He has refused to release most of the transcript but what was ordered released by the Supreme Court showed Iraqi oil fields.

Former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neil has written that Bush and Cheney were looking for ways to attack Iraq when they first came to office and the "Project for a New American Century" of which Cheney and others were members had written in the 1990's of the importance and need to control the oil.
Also, Saddam did not give money to terrorists. He supported the Palestinians legitimate struggle against Israeli occupation of 1967. He gave money to the families of suicide bombers to help them and their loss of a family member. I think he gave them around $10,000 or something like that.

The Palestinians use suicide bombings to retaliate against Israelis murders and crimes. Israel has the 4th to 6th most powerful military in the world, which they used in 1967 to invade Palestine and they are stealing the land and repress the people.

The Palestinians don't even have an army.
Iraq was the only government to "take out". It was the only one the rest of the middle east would allow the US to remove from power its leader.

Somebody had to pay, it is the only way to put a lid on any more attacks, for a while anyway. I believe there will be others. But buy attacking Iraq and removeing its leader, other radical governments are making sure there can be no ties to them after the coming attack.

The envasion of Iraq bought us time, I just hope we'er ready for the next 9/11.
Pogo...you said "They believed Iraq would be a "cake walk." Newsflash....IT WAS!! Name one problem American had vs. the Iraqi military during the beginning of the war. There was none...Our military, in a "standard" war...one country's military vs. another country's military...NO CONTEST!!! We desimated that country almost instantly. Now to the famous "quag" the brilliant left warned of. Those are suicide bombers, not military. Much different war don'tyou think?? Very few of the suicide bombers...if any.. were Iraqi..those are the terrorists common sense Americans know are the bad guys. Incase you didn't know, because I know you wouldnt get this info from the "progressive media"(Oh my freakin Lord) the bad guy ain't America.
The one thing you are dead on about is that the US and the world is not "better off" because terrorism and hatred of the US is growing. THAT'S THE POINT!!!! It's always going to grow. They hate us because we are free... because you have the freedom to type on your keyboard your opinion...THEY HATE YOU!!! You may not like this war in Iraq, or Afgan, or anywhere else. But my friend you better get used to it or move to Canada, because we will be fighting these crackheads for many more years. They are evil, they will continue to murder innocent people forever...THAT'S WHAT THEY DO!!

Unless you want to give in to them and us all convert to Islam so they won't be mad at us anymore....Is that what you want?
The left had no doubt the US would roll over the Iraqi forces but warned it would be a quagmire like Vietnam and a fierce guerilla war would follow, which has happened.

Bin Laden and al Qaeda were relatively a small group among Muslims numbering a couple thousand. They had very little support from average Muslims. After 9/11 the US had the world's backing and police work and international cooperation captured and crippled al Qaeda's leadership.

Bush let bin Laden escape and al Qaeda to regroup and it is stronger then before because of the US invasion of Iraq. Hatred of US is not world wide.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and there were no al Qaeda under Saddam. They were bitter enemies. The Iraq war was a blunder and even Bush Sr and a number of other sensible conservatives opposed it.

It's all about controlling the region and the oil.
Pogo, you seem like a well read guy, but the problem is your reading the wrong junk. The best way to seem completely unintelligent when speaking of the war in Iraq is to compare it to Vietnam. This war does not even vaugely resemble that war in any way. .....Well, except for the feel good pussification of America from the libbies.

Uh, When was is that Bush "let" Bin Laden escape?????? You mean Clinton???

And once again, I alread told you that I agreed that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, Iraq was about Bush taking out bad guys.

And who would you rather have control over the region and the oil? Do you need oil? Do I need oil? Does all of America need oil? Fact of the matter is, because of our use of oil those country's could be extremely wealthy. However, because of these dictators the people of those countries lose out. America would never outright say we were in control of another country's oil, but if we were(whether we said so or not) we would take so much better care of the natives of whatever country that is than their own leader it's laughable. Once again, the sooner you(or your progressive media) realizes that America is the good guy, the sooner you'll get the big picture. We give and give and give and the world just expects that...our charity. But let some soft skinned libbies get upset about war and everyone calls us the evil empire all of a sudden...Forgotten is ALL THE AMAZINGLY GREAT THINGS WE DO FOR THE WORLD...oh no, just the evil big dog waggin their big dog tail....Just dogcrap. All of this has turned me into an isolationist. America should cut of everyone, no more charity, no more food and vaccines and such...bet we'd suddenly have many less enemies and a bunch of folks groveling at the doorstep.
When I write a post I try to cover and answer a number of Posts.

I read and the follow the corporate media and the progressive alternative press. I find the progressive media to be more accurate and in depth. They look behind the interests of the corporate media which are just huge corporations that promote the interests of the Corporate Class.

Iraq is the same as Vietnam, a lie and a quagmire.

Bush allowed bin Laden to escape in Afghanistan when he had them cornered and defeated in Tora Bora I believe it was. It is not mentioned much, if at all, by the corporate media pundits but was brought up by John Kerry and other demcorats in the 2004 election. He then turned his energy to drumming up the Iraq War which is now draining our resources and forces.

I am glad to see you say "we need the oil" as you are admitting the Iraq War is about stealing the oil. We had no problem with getting oil under Saddam and we should be off oil. They didn't invade to steal it for us but for the profits of the oil corporations.

We should be off oil. It is a limited resource and the price will continue to rise and wars will continue to be fought over it. The countries that develop alternative energy will be the leaders of the 21st Century.
Here, in his own words is why I think Pogo Possum should be president.
quote:
Originally posted by Pogo142:
When I write a post I try to cover and answer a number of Posts.

I read and the follow the corporate media and the progressive alternative press. I find the progressive media to be more accurate and in depth. They look behind the interests of the corporate media which are just huge corporations that promote the interests of the Corporate Class.

Iraq is the same as Vietnam, a lie and a quagmire.
<CLIP>
It is easy to get the New Conservative position on any story. Fox, NBC, ABC,and CBS are all tilted far to the right. They are COMMITTED to the corporate status quo, they are COMMITTED to reducing government regulation of corporations and increasing government regulation of everyday people. They are COMMITTED to raising a New American Aristocracy.
They, like the Republican National Committee, ARE COMMITTED to the doctrines of the American Enterprise Institute, and the PNAC. So are the leading radical reactionary right wing regurgitatiors of Republican Party Rhetoric.

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