quote:
SEZ Buttercup:
It doesn't matter if there are parts of the country where swatting/spanking/whatever is unacceptable; people still do it. Smoking pot is illegal, but people still do it. And a 6 or 7 year old child won't just randomly accuse his parents of spanking him, just because. You say you see it all the time. Maybe it's happened here and there, but not all the time. If a child realizes he can be taken away from a loving home and loving parents, he will not make such an accusation unless he's non compos mentis.

So you were a latchkey kid and turned out fine. You were lucky. Are you honestly going to argue that there aren't latchkey kids out there who get themselves into trouble for the simple fact that they have no supervision several hours a day, day after day? I'm not a helicopter parent, but am sure not going to allow my child to be alone at home until I'm 100% certain he's mature enough and reliable enough to handle it.

And instilling fear of a spanking in my child for misbehaving is just wrong. Again, frightening and terrorizing children is not your job as a parent. You're not a state trooper; you're a parent - their first, and most important, teacher. You make them understand WHY the action is wrong. Spanking does not teach such a lesson.


Well...Good Luck on your PC "child raising" experience.
When they don't want a "TIME OUT"...what are ya' gonna do...then?
quote:
Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
quote:
SEZ Buttercup:
It doesn't matter if there are parts of the country where swatting/spanking/whatever is unacceptable; people still do it. Smoking pot is illegal, but people still do it. And a 6 or 7 year old child won't just randomly accuse his parents of spanking him, just because. You say you see it all the time. Maybe it's happened here and there, but not all the time. If a child realizes he can be taken away from a loving home and loving parents, he will not make such an accusation unless he's non compos mentis.

So you were a latchkey kid and turned out fine. You were lucky. Are you honestly going to argue that there aren't latchkey kids out there who get themselves into trouble for the simple fact that they have no supervision several hours a day, day after day? I'm not a helicopter parent, but am sure not going to allow my child to be alone at home until I'm 100% certain he's mature enough and reliable enough to handle it.

And instilling fear of a spanking in my child for misbehaving is just wrong. Again, frightening and terrorizing children is not your job as a parent. You're not a state trooper; you're a parent - their first, and most important, teacher. You make them understand WHY the action is wrong. Spanking does not teach such a lesson.


Well...Good Luck on your PC "child raising" experience.
When they don't want a "TIME OUT"...what are ya' gonna do...then?


He doesn't have a choice on the timeout. And there are other methods: taking away privileges, not allowing extra privileges, etc. that register with his behavior bank (i.e., Is the bad behavior worth it?).

For example, my little boy likes Star Wars. He can save up his own money to buy a toy he likes, but if he's misbehaved I take the privilege of buying it away. That means something to him because, again, Star Wars toys mean something to him.

When going out, we've always explained the consequences of misbehavior before walking out the door so that he'd know what to expect. Example: I'd tell him (when he was younger), "If you misbehave at the grocery store, no cartoons when you get home."

We were always consistent (key word) with the discipline (another key word) and our child has turned out respectful and courteous and very rarely needs privileges taken away or timeouts anymore, because he "got it" a long time ago.
I was fortunate with my daughter. God, I'm glad she's grown! Today's kids, courtesy of the PC crowd and ill-trained DHS/CPS workers, perpetuate what amounts to BLACKMAIL on many parents, saying 'I'll behave IF...'. And most parents choose NOT to fight what amounts to an 'uphill battle'.

Buttercup, I sincerely hope, and I really mean it, your child continues to behave. Good luck in his 'teen' years.

Like it or not, fear and respect often go hand in hand.

"Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man." Ecclesiastes 12:13
quote:
SK - You made MY argument for me: you state you were BEATEN. Proper corporal punishment DOES NOT entail 'beatings'.



At exactly what point does a spanking become a beating?

Teachers like you (I presume) used a large wooden board to "spank" the kids. If that were done outside of a classroom, most would consider it a beating but I'm open minded about it.

So define the difference between a spanking and beating, please?
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
SK - You made MY argument for me: you state you were BEATEN. Proper corporal punishment DOES NOT entail 'beatings'.



At exactly what point does a spanking become a beating?

Teachers like you (I presume) used a large wooden board to "spank" the kids. If that were done outside of a classroom, most would consider it a beating but I'm open minded about it.

So define the difference between a spanking and beating, please?


Spankings produce minor pain without serious physical injury.

Beatings produce extreme pain, and cause serious injury due to violent, forceful, repetitious strikes.

The Code of Alabama Title 13A-1-2 defines physical injury as "impairment of physical condition or substantial pain". Serious physical injury is defined as "Physical injury which creates a substantial risk of death, or which causes serious and protracted disfigurement, protracted impairment of health, or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ".
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
I was fortunate with my daughter. God, I'm glad she's grown! Today's kids, courtesy of the PC crowd and ill-trained DHS/CPS workers, perpetuate what amounts to BLACKMAIL on many parents, saying 'I'll behave IF...'. And most parents choose NOT to fight what amounts to an 'uphill battle'.

Buttercup, I sincerely hope, and I really mean it, your child continues to behave. Good luck in his 'teen' years.

Like it or not, fear and respect often go hand in hand.

"Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man." Ecclesiastes 12:13


You know I disagree with all of that, dogsoldier. But at least you (and BFred07) respond respectfully and thoughtfully and take emotion out of the debate. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
quote:
SEZ Buttercup:
It doesn't matter if there are parts of the country where swatting/spanking/whatever is unacceptable; people still do it. Smoking pot is illegal, but people still do it. And a 6 or 7 year old child won't just randomly accuse his parents of spanking him, just because. You say you see it all the time. Maybe it's happened here and there, but not all the time. If a child realizes he can be taken away from a loving home and loving parents, he will not make such an accusation unless he's non compos mentis.

So you were a latchkey kid and turned out fine. You were lucky. Are you honestly going to argue that there aren't latchkey kids out there who get themselves into trouble for the simple fact that they have no supervision several hours a day, day after day? I'm not a helicopter parent, but am sure not going to allow my child to be alone at home until I'm 100% certain he's mature enough and reliable enough to handle it.

And instilling fear of a spanking in my child for misbehaving is just wrong. Again, frightening and terrorizing children is not your job as a parent. You're not a state trooper; you're a parent - their first, and most important, teacher. You make them understand WHY the action is wrong. Spanking does not teach such a lesson.


Well...Good Luck on your PC "child raising" experience.
When they don't want a "TIME OUT"...what are ya' gonna do...then?


He doesn't have a choice on the timeout. And there are other methods: taking away privileges, not allowing extra privileges, etc. that register with his behavior bank (i.e., Is the bad behavior worth it?).

For example, my little boy likes Star Wars. He can save up his own money to buy a toy he likes, but if he's misbehaved I take the privilege of buying it away. That means something to him because, again, Star Wars toys mean something to him.

When going out, we've always explained the consequences of misbehavior before walking out the door so that he'd know what to expect. Example: I'd tell him (when he was younger), "If you misbehave at the grocery store, no cartoons when you get home."

We were always consistent (key word) with the discipline (another key word) and our child has turned out respectful and courteous and very rarely needs privileges taken away or timeouts anymore, because he "got it" a long time ago.


he doesn't have a choice in the time out? of course he does, unless you strap him into the chair.

when you have a child who decides he doesn't really care about that star wars toy, because he's more interested in getting out of the naughty chair and going down the street to see his friend, who has the same toy, and he just gets up and walks out the door?

'go to your room!'
"no."

"you can't play with that toy anymore, give it here"
"no."

"go sit in the time out chair for 30 minutes."
"no"

i said go, now
no
you heard me, you want me to make it 45 minutes? go now!
no.

maybe it didn't happen with your kids.
maybe it doesn't happen with most kids.
but just as spanking isn't appropriate in all situation, (and yes, as someone pointed out, spanking should be the last option, when all else has failed.) it isn't wrong in every situation.

so.. you've told your child to clean his room.
he persists in not cleaning his room. you've told him he's grounded, he gets tiem out, no tv, no ipods, no playstation, no anything for a week, and still he doesn't clean his room.

what's next?

you tell him to clean the room and he says no.

you tell him some more. he says no.
you tell him again, and you get no results.

regardless what you choose to believe, there are kids out there with enough stubbornness to resist anything you say.

my son is one of these. he would rather sit in tiem out and lose privledges that to do a chore he hates. he'd rather be grounded for a week than clean his room. 2 weeks. 3 weeks. he'd rather me clean his room with a shovel, straight into a garbage can than to clean it himself.

so what would you suggest? all privledges are revoked. he comes home from school, does his homework, and then sits in a chair in the kitchen by himself and daydreams until dinner. after dinner he helps clear the table and load the dishwasher, then sits back in the chair, daydreaming until bedtime.
because he prefers this to cleaning his room.
and the whole time he succeeds in defying us, and his room isn't cleaned.

solve this one. this happened to us, several years ago, because we liked the idea of not spanking once they were old enough to reason and understand what was going on.
we let it go on for about a month, determined to out stubborn him.

so, what's your answer to this non-hypothetical situation?
a child has had all pridleges remove, over time, sits in one chair for the rest of the time, and still refuses to do as he was asked.
we asked politely. we bargianed. we bribed. we threatened. we started with the passive punishments until there was nothing left.
what next? should i have let him sit there for the rest of his life before resorting to spanking him?
which i did. three good taps with the paddle on his bottom and sent him to bed.
the next day i walked into his room, carrying the paddle, and said ' you have 1 hour to clean this room. in one hour me and the paddle are coming back, except this time there will be 6 instead of 3."

i went back in an hour, and he was mostly done, he saw the paddle and told me ' can i have another 30 minutes? i'll even vaccum if i can have another 30 minute!"

i gave him the 30 minutes. he was done in 20, including the carpet.

so i took him out for ice cream, and praised him greatly for a job well done.

a couple weeks later i said, "hey kid, i think it's tiem for a few minutes cleaning your room, ok?"

he asked if he could wait till the weekend (2 days away) i said yes. when i went in sat. morning to tell him b'fast was ready he was cleaning diligently.

no more problems. he'll whine, because he hates it, but he does it without hesitation.

how would you have handled it? how would you make him do it when he's already refused to?
g'head, lets see your new agey feel-goody wisdom in action ....
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
SK - You made MY argument for me: you state you were BEATEN. Proper corporal punishment DOES NOT entail 'beatings'.



At exactly what point does a spanking become a beating?

Teachers like you (I presume) used a large wooden board to "spank" the kids. If that were done outside of a classroom, most would consider it a beating but I'm open minded about it.

So define the difference between a spanking and beating, please?


Actually, most were plexiglass.
thenagel,

Not trying to judge your parenting style, but if that's the case you didn't set limits early enough. You're telling me there's NOTHING that means anything to him, if it were to be taken away? I simply don't believe that.

With a young child it's toys and cartoons; with an older child it's cell phones, Internet, video games, cars, going out on weekends, etc. You're telling me your son has none of those things? Are you Amish? (kidding)

Seriously, he lives under your roof, so you can take his cell phone and car away, or his ability to go out Saturday night. Even if you have to take all of his "extras" away, he'll get the picture. Sorry, I just can't conceive of a young person with no "toys" of any kind that you can't control the use of.

But, again, sounds like the boundaries weren't set early enough. You can't wait until they're 10 or 12 to start setting them.
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
.. you've told your child to clean it's room.
he persists in not cleaning his room. you've told him he's grounded, he gets tiem out, no tv, no ipods, no playstation, no anything for a week, and still he doesn't clean his room.

what's next?

you tell him to clean the room and he says no.

you tell him some more. he says no.
you tell him again, and you get no results.

regardless what you choose to believe, there are kids out there with enough stubbornness to resist anything you say.


Great example, thenagel. If he won't clean his room, no matter what, I'd take the bed, t.v., everything but the floor out of there. I would be willing to bet that sleeping on the floor a few nights will change his mind. And, no, that's not abuse; it's winning the battle of wills.

If that still doesn't work, take all his clothes away and replace them with the most off-brand stuff you can find from Goodwill or Wal-Mart. You really think a teenager, who's all about vanity, won't do what you ask then? Again, he'll live. Chances are excellent that he won't want to suffer the embarrassment after you tell him what you're going to do.
quote:
Originally posted by Lets Go Jeepin':
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:

But at least you (and BFred07) respond respectfully and thoughtfully and take emotion out of the debate. Smiler


Confused


I edited a prior post to say (referring to one of your posts):

quote:

But thanks for your post. I always enjoy and respect your contributions.


Sorry. I thought you'd realize I already included you as a person who responds respectfully and thoughtfully, with that statement. Anyway, for what it's worth, I do. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
thenagel,

Not trying to judge your parenting style, but if that's the case you didn't set limits early enough. You're telling me there's NOTHING that means anything to him, if it were to be taken away? I simply don't believe that.

With a young child it's toys and cartoons; with an older child it's cell phones, Internet, video games, cars, going out on weekends, etc. You're telling me your son has none of those things? Are you Amish? (kidding)

Seriously, he lives under your roof, so you can take his cell phone and car away, or his ability to go out Saturday night. Even if you have to take all of his "extras" away, he'll get the picture. Sorry, I just can't conceive of a young person with no "toys" of any kind that you can't control the use of.

But, again, sounds like the boundaries weren't set early enough. You can't wait until they're 10 or 12 to start setting them.


he was 5. and we'd had no trouble except when it came to cleaning his room. to him, that was a fate worse that death.
I rarely got spanked as a child, but if it did happen, I did not hate my parents for it.

My kids also rarely got a spanking, usually talking or time out worked, but not always.

Butter, look up studies of 'an only child' and then tell me if you agree with them.

Also when he turns 13, write another post about it.


theanel,
I know what you mean about stubborn.

As for wearing Walmart clothes, mine already do that. Who can afford anything else?
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
thenagel,

Not trying to judge your parenting style, but if that's the case you didn't set limits early enough. You're telling me there's NOTHING that means anything to him, if it were to be taken away? I simply don't believe that.

With a young child it's toys and cartoons; with an older child it's cell phones, Internet, video games, cars, going out on weekends, etc. You're telling me your son has none of those things? Are you Amish? (kidding)

Seriously, he lives under your roof, so you can take his cell phone and car away, or his ability to go out Saturday night. Even if you have to take all of his "extras" away, he'll get the picture. Sorry, I just can't conceive of a young person with no "toys" of any kind that you can't control the use of.

But, again, sounds like the boundaries weren't set early enough. You can't wait until they're 10 or 12 to start setting them.


he was 5. and we'd had no trouble except when it came to cleaning his room. to him, that was a fate worse that death.


Hahaha! Yes, I'm aware. I think all children, especially boys for some reason, hate to clean their room.

For me, that's a "choose your battles" kind of situation. I've never made my son clean his room to perfection, with bed made daily, etc. As long as I don't trip on something and hurt myself as I walk through his room and the clean clothes are put away and the dirty at least near the basket, I'm generally okay with it. A perfectly kept room is simply not important.
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
.. you've told your child to clean it's room.
he persists in not cleaning his room. you've told him he's grounded, he gets tiem out, no tv, no ipods, no playstation, no anything for a week, and still he doesn't clean his room.

what's next?

you tell him to clean the room and he says no.

you tell him some more. he says no.
you tell him again, and you get no results.

regardless what you choose to believe, there are kids out there with enough stubbornness to resist anything you say.


Great example, thenagel. If he won't clean his room, no matter what, I'd take the bed, t.v., everything but the floor out of there. I would be willing to bet that sleeping on the floor a few nights will change his mind. And, no, that's not abuse; it's winning the battle of wills.

If that still doesn't work, take all his clothes away and replace them with the most off-brand stuff you can find from Goodwill or Wal-Mart. You really think a teenager, who's all about vanity, won't do what you ask then? Again, he'll live. Chances are excellent that he won't want to suffer the embarrassment after you tell him what you're going to do.


well, 1st
we don't have money for designer stuff.. they are in wal mart and hand me downs already. and for that matter, why should it be embarassing? why should we care what other people think about our clothes? my kids have been taught the measure of a persons worth is what's in the heart and head, not what's on their bodies or what kinda car they drive.

no tv in the kids rooms. we have more money than we did then, and i still refuse to put a tv in their rooms. no cell phones until they go get a job and pay for it themselves.
i daughter does have an ipod, and the is a ps2 in the living room that my son lives on when he's allowed, and a computer in the livingroom that they share where they cna be watched occasionally.

i acctually didn't think about making him sleep in the floor, but i can honestly say i really think that it would have made no difference

and no.. i wouldnt call that child abuse at all.

and i'm very sorry for the lag between the original post, and then my final editing.. we had family over and there was much distraction so it took me a while, so there was stuff in the final version ( including mucho typos) that you didn't see.
sorry about that
quote:
Originally posted by btchpls50m:
I rarely got spanked as a child, but if it did happen, I did not hate my parents for it.

My kids also rarely got a spanking, usually talking or time out worked, but not always.

Butter, look up studies of 'an only child' and then tell me if you agree with them.

Also when he turns 13, write another post about it.


theanel,
I know what you mean about stubborn.

As for wearing Walmart clothes, mine already do that. Who can afford anything else?


Interesting. So "an only child" is destined to become a brat at 13, no matter what? Post the studies, please.

And your quote:

quote:

As for wearing Walmart clothes, mine already do that. Who can afford anything else?


You have two degrees. Shouldn't you have a good enough job to afford nicer clothes? Hahahaha!

Sorry, I'm truly over that little snot throw on the other thread, but I just couldn't resist. Wink Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
thenagel,

Not trying to judge your parenting style, but if that's the case you didn't set limits early enough. You're telling me there's NOTHING that means anything to him, if it were to be taken away? I simply don't believe that.

With a young child it's toys and cartoons; with an older child it's cell phones, Internet, video games, cars, going out on weekends, etc. You're telling me your son has none of those things? Are you Amish? (kidding)

Seriously, he lives under your roof, so you can take his cell phone and car away, or his ability to go out Saturday night. Even if you have to take all of his "extras" away, he'll get the picture. Sorry, I just can't conceive of a young person with no "toys" of any kind that you can't control the use of.

But, again, sounds like the boundaries weren't set early enough. You can't wait until they're 10 or 12 to start setting them.


he was 5. and we'd had no trouble except when it came to cleaning his room. to him, that was a fate worse that death.


Hahaha! Yes, I'm aware. I think all children, especially boys for some reason, hate to clean their room.

For me, that's a "choose your battles" kind of situation. I've never made my son clean his room to perfection, with bed made daily, etc. As long as I don't trip on something and hurt myself as I walk through his room and the clean clothes are put away and the dirty at least near the basket, I'm generally okay with it. A perfectly kept room is simply not important.


we're well aware that one must pick their battles, and ended up having this one picked for us.
we weren't looking for perfection, we were looking for a path clean enough so that we could hang up his clothes. we didn't insist, or even hint, for spotless. we just wanted not-godawful.
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:

I edited a prior post to say (referring to one of your posts):

quote:

But thanks for your post. I always enjoy and respect your contributions.


Sorry. I thought you'd realize I already included you as a person who responds respectfully and thoughtfully, with that statement. Anyway, for what it's worth, I do. Smiler


I was wondering about that, I was rereading my posts to make sure I didnt say something that you might have been able to take as me being mean Big Grin
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
.. you've told your child to clean it's room.
he persists in not cleaning his room. you've told him he's grounded, he gets tiem out, no tv, no ipods, no playstation, no anything for a week, and still he doesn't clean his room.

what's next?

you tell him to clean the room and he says no.

you tell him some more. he says no.
you tell him again, and you get no results.

regardless what you choose to believe, there are kids out there with enough stubbornness to resist anything you say.


Great example, thenagel. If he won't clean his room, no matter what, I'd take the bed, t.v., everything but the floor out of there. I would be willing to bet that sleeping on the floor a few nights will change his mind. And, no, that's not abuse; it's winning the battle of wills.

If that still doesn't work, take all his clothes away and replace them with the most off-brand stuff you can find from Goodwill or Wal-Mart. You really think a teenager, who's all about vanity, won't do what you ask then? Again, he'll live. Chances are excellent that he won't want to suffer the embarrassment after you tell him what you're going to do.


well, 1st
we don't have money for designer stuff.. they are in wal mart and hand me downs already. and for that matter, why should it be embarassing? why should we care what other people think about our clothes? my kids have been taught the measure of a persons worth is what's in the heart and head, not what's on their bodies or what kinda car they drive.
no tv in the kids rooms. we have more money than we did then, and i still refuse to put a tv in their rooms. no cell phones until they go get a job and pay for it themselves.
i daughter does have an ipod, and the is a ps2 in the living room that my son lives on when he's allowed, and a computer in the livingroom that they share where they cna be watched occasionally.

i acctually didn't think about making him sleep in the floor, but i can honestly say i really think that it would have made no difference

and no.. i wouldnt call that child abuse at all.

and i'm very sorry for the lag between the original post, and then my final editing.. we had family over and there was much distraction so it took me a while, so there was stuff in the final version ( including mucho typos) that you didn't see.
sorry about that


I agree with what's in bold; we instill the same values in our child. But let's get real. Kids care about labels and name brands; we did when we were kids.

I buy most of our clothes from from Wal-Mart and Target because I simply can't swallow paying mall prices for things. I didn't mean to imply there was something wrong with it; just thinking from a kid's point-of-view. Trust me, I'm one of the least snobby people you'd ever meet. Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
.. you've told your child to clean it's room.
he persists in not cleaning his room. you've told him he's grounded, he gets tiem out, no tv, no ipods, no playstation, no anything for a week, and still he doesn't clean his room.

what's next?

you tell him to clean the room and he says no.

you tell him some more. he says no.
you tell him again, and you get no results.

regardless what you choose to believe, there are kids out there with enough stubbornness to resist anything you say.


Great example, thenagel. If he won't clean his room, no matter what, I'd take the bed, t.v., everything but the floor out of there. I would be willing to bet that sleeping on the floor a few nights will change his mind. And, no, that's not abuse; it's winning the battle of wills.

If that still doesn't work, take all his clothes away and replace them with the most off-brand stuff you can find from Goodwill or Wal-Mart. You really think a teenager, who's all about vanity, won't do what you ask then? Again, he'll live. Chances are excellent that he won't want to suffer the embarrassment after you tell him what you're going to do.


well, 1st
we don't have money for designer stuff.. they are in wal mart and hand me downs already. and for that matter, why should it be embarassing? why should we care what other people think about our clothes? my kids have been taught the measure of a persons worth is what's in the heart and head, not what's on their bodies or what kinda car they drive.
no tv in the kids rooms. we have more money than we did then, and i still refuse to put a tv in their rooms. no cell phones until they go get a job and pay for it themselves.
i daughter does have an ipod, and the is a ps2 in the living room that my son lives on when he's allowed, and a computer in the livingroom that they share where they cna be watched occasionally.

i acctually didn't think about making him sleep in the floor, but i can honestly say i really think that it would have made no difference

and no.. i wouldnt call that child abuse at all.

and i'm very sorry for the lag between the original post, and then my final editing.. we had family over and there was much distraction so it took me a while, so there was stuff in the final version ( including mucho typos) that you didn't see.
sorry about that


I agree with what's in bold; we instill the same values in our child. But let's get real. Kids care about labels and name brands; we did when we were kids.

I buy most of our clothes from from Wal-Mart and Target because I simply can't swallow paying mall prices for things. I didn't mean to imply there was something wrong with it; just thinking from a kid's point-of-view. Trust me, I'm one of the least snobby people you'd ever meet. Smiler


sorry.. i didn't care then, and i don't care now. my daughter told me a couple weeks ago that a girl she goes to school came up to her bragging " i got a new Prada purse! my aunt went to LA and got it for me, it's so awsome!"
to which my daughter replied " yeah.. so it's a purse. you put stuff in it. who cares who made it? i think you're aunt got ripped off."

because they've been taught that labels are pointless, designer stuff is just a way to suck money out of idiots.
no, they don't care about labels, even now that they are becoming teenagers.
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by btchpls50m:
I rarely got spanked as a child, but if it did happen, I did not hate my parents for it.

My kids also rarely got a spanking, usually talking or time out worked, but not always.

Butter, look up studies of 'an only child' and then tell me if you agree with them.

Also when he turns 13, write another post about it.


theanel,
I know what you mean about stubborn.

As for wearing Walmart clothes, mine already do that. Who can afford anything else?


Interesting. So "an only child" is destined to become a brat at 13, no matter what? Post the studies, please.

And your quote:

quote:

As for wearing Walmart clothes, mine already do that. Who can afford anything else?


You have two degrees. Shouldn't you have a good enough job to afford nicer clothes? Hahahaha!

Sorry, I'm truly over that little snot throw on the other thread, but I just couldn't resist. Wink Big Grin


Yes, I see where you find that amusing. No, I did not say an only child would grow up to be a brat, studies did. For personal experience I have a niece who is rude, selfish, and bratty, her parents see no wrong.
Now, of course you disagree, but you see that is the point. Studies may or may not be right.
Just like having two degrees did not guarantee me a good paying job.
As for clothes, I see no reason to pay for a 'name' when the same thing is made with out one. Kids can bow to peer pressure or you can teach them that the inner person is what matters. I only had one time when one of my kids asked for a name brand. I bought one shirt of it. He hated it.

End of peer pressure. Enjoy your son while small, they grow into different entities at puberty.
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Buttercup:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CageTheElephant:
[QUOTE]
so.. you've told your child to clean his room.
he persists in not cleaning his room. you've told him he's grounded, he gets tiem out, no tv, no ipods, no playstation, no anything for a week, and still he doesn't clean his room.

what's next?

you tell him to clean the room and he says no.

you tell him some more. he says no.
you tell him again, and you get no results.

regardless what you choose to believe, there are kids out there with enough stubbornness to resist anything you say.

my son is one of these. he would rather sit in tiem out and lose privledges that to do a chore he hates. he'd rather be grounded for a week than clean his room. 2 weeks. 3 weeks. he'd rather me clean his room with a shovel, straight into a garbage can than to clean it himself.
....


Nice to hear I am not the only one, when my oldest child was around 6ish (don't recall his exact age at the time) We had trouble getting him to clean his room. I eventually told him he had two hours or I would be coming in with a garbage bag and throwing away all toys left on the floor. He went to his room, a few minutes later he came out, went into the kitchen, got a garbage bag and brought it to me!! Yes you read that right, he would rather me throw away all his toys than to have to clean up his room.
Anyway, I hated it but I had said I would so I bagged up all his toys and went out to put them in the garbage (actually put them in the storage building so he could have them back later but did not tell him that). Next time we had trouble I told him he had two hours or he was getting a whipping (strange that he did not just bring me a paddle) two hours passed and I gave him a whipping and told him he had another two hours till I would be back to give him another. After about 30 minutes or so his room was clean.
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:

Great example, thenagel. If he won't clean his room, no matter what, I'd take the bed, t.v., everything but the floor out of there. I would be willing to bet that sleeping on the floor a few nights will change his mind. And, no, that's not abuse; it's winning the battle of wills.

If that still doesn't work, take all his clothes away and replace them with the most off-brand stuff you can find from Goodwill or Wal-Mart. You really think a teenager, who's all about vanity, won't do what you ask then? Again, he'll live. Chances are excellent that he won't want to suffer the embarrassment after you tell him what you're going to do.


We try to be creative like that sometimes too in getting the kids to do what they are supposed to do but have found that more often than not it just prolongs the kids anguish over their punishment and not to sound lazy or anything but is also a lot of trouble for us to move all the stuff out of their room to the basement.
When disciplinary action becomes necessary I still try to get creative here and there, sometimes that works out well but most of the time grounding, time out, or a quick whipping to get it all over with seems to work out best.
Anyone still wash their kids mouth out with soap? I think it's a good idea when a kid says things that are unacceptable but my wife says no so we don't.
quote:
Spankings produce minor pain without serious physical injury.



Define "minor pain" for a child? Define "serious injury."

The spanking must be hard enough to cause pain. I've seen cases where a child's buttocks are bruised black and blue from the "spanking" and the child cannot sit for 2 to 3 days.

So when teachers leave black and blue marks and cannot sit, is that still just a "spanking" in your book?

As a LEO, if you saw a large man hitting a woman on the butt with a wooden boat paddle on the sidewalk of downtown Florence, would you arrest that man?

I sure hope you would because use you saw him beating beating a woman.

Now, what is the difference between that man beating his wife and a 250 pound principal whacking the little bottom of a 40 pound child?

For your viewing pleasure. This dad certainly beleives his sons were "beaten" not "paddled,": http://s88.photobucket.com/alb...¤t=vid0409.flv
The following is a TRUE story:

Both of my parents obtained Doctorate's from the University of Alabama. My dad was an officer in the U.S. Army and college professor. There were (2) children in our household...me (oldest) and my sister, who is 18 months younger.

I could have been considered an average child, getting into minor scrapes in school, receiving my share of corporal punishments at school, spankings at home, etc. My folks gave me (1) car at age 17...and it wasn't the one I picked out. I obtained a B.S. and Masters in Education and was a teacher, coach and administrator for almost a quarter of a century. I also graduated the police academy and served my communities as a law enforcement officer. I am now the Director of Security for a multi-million dollar corporation.

My sister, however, was coddled, babied and got her way in most things. There are no accounts of her ever receiving corporal punishment at school, spankings at home, etc. She wrecked every car given (Camaro, T-Bird, Cougar, etc) to her and received immediate replacements. She dropped out of college, had numerous run-ins with law enforcement and is presently a recovering heroin addict.

You tell me which form of discipline WORKED best.
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Spankings produce minor pain without serious physical injury.



Define "minor pain" for a child? Define "serious injury."

The spanking must be hard enough to cause pain. I've seen cases where a child's buttocks are bruised black and blue from the "spanking" and the child cannot sit for 2 to 3 days.

So when teachers leave black and blue marks and cannot sit, is that still just a "spanking" in your book?

As a LEO, if you saw a large man hitting a woman on the butt with a wooden boat paddle on the sidewalk of downtown Florence, would you arrest that man?

I sure hope you would because use you saw him beating beating a woman.

Now, what is the difference between that man beating his wife and a 250 pound principal whacking the little bottom of a 40 pound child?

For your viewing pleasure. This dad certainly beleives his sons were "beaten" not "paddled,": http://s88.photobucket.com/alb...¤t=vid0409.flv


Corporal punishment for being tardy. Hmmmm. Well, better these kids learn now before they get in the "real world". After all, don't we all get hit on the behind with a board when we're late a few times in the working world? Hey, you gotta learn sometime. Excellent lesson!!!
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:

Great example, thenagel. If he won't clean his room, no matter what, I'd take the bed, t.v., everything but the floor out of there. I would be willing to bet that sleeping on the floor a few nights will change his mind. And, no, that's not abuse; it's winning the battle of wills.

If that still doesn't work, take all his clothes away and replace them with the most off-brand stuff you can find from Goodwill or Wal-Mart. You really think a teenager, who's all about vanity, won't do what you ask then? Again, he'll live. Chances are excellent that he won't want to suffer the embarrassment after you tell him what you're going to do.


We try to be creative like that sometimes too in getting the kids to do what they are supposed to do but have found that more often than not it just prolongs the kids anguish over their punishment and not to sound lazy or anything but is also a lot of trouble for us to move all the stuff out of their room to the basement.
When disciplinary action becomes necessary I still try to get creative here and there, sometimes that works out well but most of the time grounding, time out, or a quick whipping to get it all over with seems to work out best.
Anyone still wash their kids mouth out with soap? I think it's a good idea when a kid says things that are unacceptable but my wife says no so we don't.


oh aye, done that.
very effective.
quote:
SEZS So FAKING STOOPID:
Define "minor pain" for a child? Define "serious injury."

The spanking must be hard enough to cause pain. I've seen cases where a child's buttocks are bruised black and blue from the "spanking" and the child cannot sit for 2 to 3 days.

So when teachers leave black and blue marks and cannot sit, is that still just a "spanking" in your book?

As a LEO, if you saw a large man hitting a woman on the butt with a wooden boat paddle on the sidewalk of downtown Florence, would you arrest that man?

I sure hope you would because use you saw him beating beating a woman.

Now, what is the difference between that man beating his wife and a 250 pound principal whacking the little bottom of a 40 pound child?

For your viewing pleasure. This dad certainly beleives his sons were "beaten" not "paddled,": http://s88.photobucket.com/alb...¤t=vid0409.flv


Yeah, you go with the "time outs" that's probably your little turds I see running around in stores needing their asses whipped...
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by BFred07:
The long term effects of spanking (when used properly)are happy, responsible,law abiding adults!
On the other hand there are parents that spank their children because they are angry, want revenge. Spanking should only be a tool to correct unacceptable behavior and even then should only be done for the more serious offenses because if it is used to often it can begin to loose its effectiveness. For the minor stuff a time out, grounding, taking their cell phone, etc can also be effective tools.


Hey there, Fred. Long time no argue, huh? Big Grin I'm sorry but you totally missed the point of the study's findings. It does not say that spanking is okay, as long as it's used sparingly; it says that ALL spanking makes children more aggressive. Period.


I've been doing my own study on this for about 9 years and have found that my 9 year old nephew, who is rarely spanked despite his usually horrible behavior, is at least 10 times more aggressive than my 6 year old son, who is spanked whenever he needs to be.
People who do studies on a subject with preferred results will usually get the results they're wanting, just like all of Al Bore's crooked "scientists."
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:

Corporal punishment for being tardy. Hmmmm. Well, better these kids learn now before they get in the "real world". After all, don't we all get hit on the behind with a board when we're late a few times in the working world? Hey, you gotta learn sometime. Excellent lesson!!!


In the real world, it'll be "corporate punishment" for being tardy.
quote:
My sister, however, was coddled, babied and got her way in most things. There are no accounts of her ever receiving corporal punishment at school, spankings at home, etc. She wrecked every car given (Camaro, T-Bird, Cougar, etc) to her and received immediate replacements. She dropped out of college, had numerous run-ins with law enforcement and is presently a recovering heroin addict.

You tell me which form of discipline WORKED best.


This is a non sequitur. Of No one here is arguing for an abolishment of all discipline. Of COURSE kids needs boundaries. She had none. You did.

This is an example of irresponsible parenting versus responsible parenting, nothing more.

You miserably failed to show that you getting spanked and her not directly resulted in the behaviors exhibited. Has her parents done their job by setting boundaries, her story would likely be much different. The research is quite clear on this.
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
Dog,

I'm curious: We used to use CP in our mental institutions and military. We outlawed those practices along ago. Would you be in favor of bringing those practices back?


I would have loved to have been able to use corporal punishment while I was in the military. That would have been awesome, to say the least. A good blanket party would have worked wonders for a couple of guys in boot camp, too.

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