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quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
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My sister, however, was coddled, babied and got her way in most things. There are no accounts of her ever receiving corporal punishment at school, spankings at home, etc. She wrecked every car given (Camaro, T-Bird, Cougar, etc) to her and received immediate replacements. She dropped out of college, had numerous run-ins with law enforcement and is presently a recovering heroin addict.

You tell me which form of discipline WORKED best.


This is a non sequitur. Of No one here is arguing for an abolishment of all discipline. Of COURSE kids needs boundaries. She had none. You did.

This is an example of irresponsible parenting versus responsible parenting, nothing more.

You miserably failed to show that you getting spanked and her not directly resulted in the behaviors exhibited. Has her parents done their job by setting boundaries, her story would likely be much different. The research is quite clear on this.


Failed to prove anything? SAME parents. 2 siblings. Stern disciplinary approach towards one. Lax disciplinary approach towards the other. The kid with the stern discipline was an achiever and law-abiding citizen. The one with the lax discipline was a criminal and drug addict. It ISN'T 'rocket science'.

Personally, I think they (my parents) brought the wrong baby (my sis) home from the hospital.
Last edited by dogsoldier0513
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Stern disciplinary approach towards one. Lax disciplinary approach towards the other.



No, you mentioned one with a profound lack of any discipline at all versus one who received some form of discipline - albeit primitive and outdated by today's standards.

Can it be successfully argued that corporal punishment is "better" for kids than no discipline at all? Probab . . . No, absolutely.

But that is comparing apples to giraffes. It's not even a ballpark comparison. It is meaningless. Of COURSE kids will do stupid things if left to their own desires with absolutely no repercussions.
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
Dog,

I'm curious: We used to use CP in our mental institutions and military. We outlawed those practices along ago. Would you be in favor of bringing those practices back?


No. As I have previously stated, there is an age at which I believe corporal punishment becomes ineffective.


So you seem to agree that there is a point where CP is no longer effective. Exactly what age is that?
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
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Originally posted by Buttercup:

Corporal punishment for being tardy. Hmmmm. Well, better these kids learn now before they get in the "real world". After all, don't we all get hit on the behind with a board when we're late a few times in the working world? Hey, you gotta learn sometime. Excellent lesson!!!


In the real world, it'll be "corporate punishment" for being tardy.


So tell me, Tomme73, why is it that adults in the workplace aren't disciplined with a few smacks on the behind with a board? Why do you think this isn't acceptable in our (somewhat) civil, American workplace?

Should it be acceptable? If so, why? If not, then why is it acceptable to hit a child with a few smacks on the behind with a board to discipline?

And don't dodge this. Explain.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sofa King:
No, you mentioned one with a profound lack of any discipline at all versus one who received some form of discipline - albeit primitive and outdated by today's standards.

I'm sorry but you are incorrect.

Corporal Punishment is not primitive and outdated. It has been abandoned by adults that prefer to be their child’s pal/buddy instead of their parent. As a parent it is your job to teach you children. It is not the job of the babysitter/daycare, teachers/principle or the DHR/Social worker. That is the problem with society today, no one is taking the responsibility to teach their children respect for themselves, respect for others, the difference between right and wrong but most of all that there is consequences for their actions. If we as parents do not teach these things to our children I’m sure the police officers and judges will.
So tell me, Tomme73, why is it that adults in the workplace aren't disciplined with a few smacks on the behind with a board? Why do you think this isn't acceptable in our (somewhat) civil, American workplace?

Should it be acceptable? If so, why? If not, then why is it acceptable to hit a child with a few smacks on the behind with a board to discipline?

And don't dodge this. Explain.[/QUOTE]

I'll explain. The work place too has become touchy feely. It just about takes a full board meeting with a unanimous vote to have someone that does not do their job or has poor performance written up. Now days they give you counseling and flex time to help out if you’re late or having a problem doing your job. Wow, used to they would just fire you and put a explanation in you file. So the next employer can ask you if you have worked out those problems and question you if they are going to have the same problem with you. No corporal punishment in the work place would probably be welcomed instead of being fired/docked pay and a write up placed in you file.
quote:
Originally posted by OpinionsVary2:
I'll explain. The work place too has become touchy feely. It just about takes a full board meeting with a unanimous vote to have someone that does not do their job or has poor performance written up. Now days they give you counseling and flex time to help out if you’re late or having a problem doing your job. Wow, used to they would just fire you and put a explanation in you file. So the next employer can ask you if you have worked out those problems and question you if they are going to have the same problem with you. No corporal punishment in the work place would probably be welcomed instead of being fired/docked pay and a write up placed in you file.


LOL!!!! OMG!!!!

So adults should be paddled at work? That's priceless.

quote:
Now days they give you counseling and flex time to help out


Yeah, those pansy, family friendly work policies like flex time are for the employees who just aren't "team players" (That's not an overused cliche, is it? Big Grin).

So what your five-year-old is throwing up and got a temperature of 104. Daycare won't take him if he's sick and you don't have any back-up options. How's that the employer's problem? The kid just needs to toughen up and either make himself well or stay home alone! Little Nancy boy! Hahahaha!

Need time off to go to a parent/teacher conference and the boss won't let you off to go? Stop being such a bellyacher! What do you need with a parent/teacher conference when the teachers and administrators already know what's best for you child, like hitting him hard on the bottom with a board?

Flex time, shmex time!

Hahahahaha! Thanks, OpinionsVary2. I haven't laughed this hard in a while. Post of the year so far!
Sofa King,

The word "obtuse" perfectly describes some of these posts.

OMG! How could so many people lack the ability to understand that discipline doesn't mean spanking, and lack of spanking doesn't equal bad behavior?

We've explained all we can. They simple don't possess the ability to comprehend.

It's incredible. It should be a controlled experiment for a research hospital or something.
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
Dog,

I'm curious: We used to use CP in our mental institutions and military. We outlawed those practices along ago. Would you be in favor of bringing those practices back?


No. As I have previously stated, there is an age at which I believe corporal punishment becomes ineffective.


So you seem to agree that there is a point where CP is no longer effective. Exactly what age is that?


i also agree that the child reaches a point where spanking is non productive.

exactly when depends on the child. my daughter, the youngest and more observant and a little more willing to learn form other's mistakes has seen her brother spanked and nade a note of what it was, and so avoided the situation. she was last paddled when she was maybe 5.. maybe even 4. she's 11 now.
my 13 year old son was paddled earlier this year for lying to us, the one unforgivable transgression. he'd gotten into trouble at school and lied about it. the next week, he got in trouble again (same thing, different situation) and came home and told us about it as soon as he walked in the door. to reinforce the ' Lying=Bad ' idea, we patted him on the head and told him not to do it again and then we made cookies.
he hasn't done it again.
(and just for my sons sake, i'll say that his misbehavior at school stemmed from frustration and anger at being bullied there. when he finally told us about it, we got in touch with the school and it's " being taken care of ". since then my son hasn't gotten into trouble at school at all.)

and i just want to make it perfectly clear - we didn't paddle him for what he did at school, we paddled him for lying to us about it.
he's reached the point now where spanking isn't useful in general, we only use it for that one thing. Lie to us, and we'll bust your butt. everything else can be worked out.
if he doesn't lie to us again, he won't be spanked again, but in compliance with a word that several people have used in this thread, we must be consistant. we told him that if he lies, he gets spanked, so as parents we must keep our word.
our daughter got that message early on.

some children never need to be spanked. you tell them NO, and they obey. some are told no over and over and over, and still see exactly how far they can push it before they cross the line. a smack on the butt shows them they need to quit testing.

anti-spankers think those of us who spank are poor parents that are borderline abusive who can't control their kids without beating them.
pro-spankers think that the anti-spankers are whimpy new-ager psychobabble nimrods who let their kids run roughshod over the house and can't keep discipline.

the truth is, in some cases, both of these *are* true.
in MOST cases, neither are true.
it's pretty much down to this - if it works for you, use it. if it doesn't, don't. but quit trying to tell other people how to raise their kids. i don't care if you spank your kids or not. if they come to my house and are rotten brats, i'll toss em out. (i've done this) if they come over and are well behaved, i'll tell you how wonderful they were while here. (done this as well) whether you spank em or not is none of my business, no matter how they behaved.

i won't tell you to beat your kids if you won't tell me i can't beat mine as needed Wink
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:

Corporal punishment for being tardy. Hmmmm. Well, better these kids learn now before they get in the "real world". After all, don't we all get hit on the behind with a board when we're late a few times in the working world? Hey, you gotta learn sometime. Excellent lesson!!!


In the real world, it'll be "corporate punishment" for being tardy.


So tell me, Tomme73, why is it that adults in the workplace aren't disciplined with a few smacks on the behind with a board? Why do you think this isn't acceptable in our (somewhat) civil, American workplace?

Should it be acceptable? If so, why? If not, then why is it acceptable to hit a child with a few smacks on the behind with a board to discipline?

And don't dodge this. Explain.


Explaination -

you can fire an employee who behaves badly, you can't fire your child no matter how they behave.
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:

Corporal punishment for being tardy. Hmmmm. Well, better these kids learn now before they get in the "real world". After all, don't we all get hit on the behind with a board when we're late a few times in the working world? Hey, you gotta learn sometime. Excellent lesson!!!


In the real world, it'll be "corporate punishment" for being tardy.


So tell me, Tomme73, why is it that adults in the workplace aren't disciplined with a few smacks on the behind with a board? Why do you think this isn't acceptable in our (somewhat) civil, American workplace?

Should it be acceptable? If so, why? If not, then why is it acceptable to hit a child with a few smacks on the behind with a board to discipline?

And don't dodge this. Explain.


Explaination -

you can fire an employee who behaves badly, you can't fire your child no matter how they behave.


I didn't say explain why firing someone is okay.

I said explain why employers don't discipline their employees by hitting them on the behind with a board.

If it's okay to do it to children, why isn't it okay to do it to adults?
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:

So tell me, Tomme73, why is it that adults in the workplace aren't disciplined with a few smacks on the behind with a board? Why do you think this isn't acceptable in our (somewhat) civil, American workplace?

Should it be acceptable? If so, why? If not, then why is it acceptable to hit a child with a few smacks on the behind with a board to discipline?

And don't dodge this. Explain.


Explaination -

you can fire an employee who behaves badly, you can't fire your child no matter how they behave.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say explain why firing someone is okay.

I said explain why employers don't discipline their employees by hitting them on the behind with a board.

If it's okay to do it to children, why isn't it okay to do it to adults?[/QUOTE]

i did explain why.
we have the option of geting rid of an uncooporative, unless annoying or disobedient.
we don't have to worry wether or not it is acceptable to spank our workforce to get them in line.

( i'm going to pause here a minute to apologize.. my space bar is messing up on me. clicking, clacking and sometimes not working.. so forgive it this comes out horrible)

in japan and china they DO 'spank' their employees. there, getting fired isworse than beating. often, the employee will thank theboss for allowing them to be beaten and therefore another chance instead of being fired. there have been, in the past, people fired who would go home and disembowl them selves to remove the stain of dishonor form their family.

we have no choice choice but to keep our kids, they are ours, we bear theresponsibility to teach them right from wrong, acceptable from unacceptable, so, ifthe parents feel it's thecorrect choice, they employ spanking to enforcethe lessons they are trying to teach.
wouldyou parentsnever spank thier kids, regardlessof the behavior, and ifthey get to the proverbial straw, they just takethe kids down to dhr andgive up?


ok.. i quit for now...i'mgonna go shoot my keyboard. will be back when i figure something out and maybewecan continuethis this wasaverygood question Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:

I didn't say explain why firing someone is okay.

I said explain why employers don't discipline their employees by hitting them on the behind with a board.

If it's okay to do it to children, why isn't it okay to do it to adults?


Because you cant 'fire' your children for acting a fool, yet an employer can 'fire' an employee for it.

I think I am with you on the fact that schools should not use corporal punishment, its not their place in my opinion. That is the parents job (as well as anyone the parents designate as having that right and responsibility). Just because you are a teacher or a principle, doesnt automatically give you that right.

Jeepin'
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Originally posted by dogsoldier0513:
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
Dog,

I'm curious: We used to use CP in our mental institutions and military. We outlawed those practices along ago. Would you be in favor of bringing those practices back?


No. As I have previously stated, there is an age at which I believe corporal punishment becomes ineffective.


So you seem to agree that there is a point where CP is no longer effective. Exactly what age is that?


From personal experience, the age in which corporal punishment is usually no longer effective is around age 13.
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
Sofa King,

The word "obtuse" perfectly describes some of these posts.

OMG! How could so many people lack the ability to understand that discipline doesn't mean spanking, and lack of spanking doesn't equal bad behavior?

We've explained all we can. They simple don't possess the ability to comprehend.

It's incredible. It should be a controlled experiment for a research hospital or something.


Talk about the 'pot' calling the 'kettle' black. All that has been 'proven' in this exchange of beliefs is that we all agree to disagree.
quote:
Originally posted by Lets Go Jeepin':
Just because you are a teacher or a principle, doesnt automatically give you that right.

Jeepin'


I beg to differ. Check out the legal definition of loco in parentis: In loco parentis is a legal doctrine describing a relationship similar to that of a parent to a child. It refers to an individual who assumes parental status and responsibilities for another individual, usually a young person, without formally adopting that person. By far the most common usage of in loco parentis relates to teachers and students.
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:

Corporal punishment for being tardy. Hmmmm. Well, better these kids learn now before they get in the "real world". After all, don't we all get hit on the behind with a board when we're late a few times in the working world? Hey, you gotta learn sometime. Excellent lesson!!!


In the real world, it'll be "corporate punishment" for being tardy.


So tell me, Tomme73, why is it that adults in the workplace aren't disciplined with a few smacks on the behind with a board? Why do you think this isn't acceptable in our (somewhat) civil, American workplace?

Should it be acceptable? If so, why? If not, then why is it acceptable to hit a child with a few smacks on the behind with a board to discipline?

And don't dodge this. Explain.



You obviously have the sense of humor of the board of which you speak. I've heard of a group of men who worked together and some of them got tired of the tardiness of others. All the men agreed to getting paddled for showing up late. Guess what. . . The tardiness stopped.
I never said this was appropriate workplace discipline. However, as a Christian, "spare the rod and spoil the child" was not a suggestion. It doesn't say to spare the rod from the child and do all you can to spoil the child. The verse implies that, without proper discipline, a child will go bad (spoil).
You can post references to all the studies you want. I can post references to personal life experiences. It has been my experience that the worst-behaved children I've seen in my nearly 40 years of existence are the ones who have been spared the rod. My 6 year old is the best-behaved of all his cousins and is the one who receives proper discipline. The rest get "Now, so-and-so, don't do that. That's not nice. If you do it again. . ." over and over and over, until the situation escalates to a point where I've felt it necessary to say something. Then, some parent gets his/her feelings hurt because I had the stones to tell their brat to knock it off immediately or suffer. Guess what. . . The poor behavior was culled that instant. You don't talk to kids like they're your friend when you're trying to enforce the rules. There's a time for being friends and there's a time for being a parent.
Did I dodge anything?

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