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the media as comparing the persecution of the Jews under Hitler with the alleged persecution of the Catholic hierarchy in association with the ongoing pedophila scandals, currently raging in Germany and Ireland, after a solid debut in the U.S. and Canada.

These sentiments of the Pope's personal preacher (hereinafter "PPP"), the (allegedly) Reverend Raniero Cantalamessa, are not endorsed by the church itself and that makes sense, since this PPP certainly does not. First of all, the Jews were not being criticized in Gernmany, or elsewhere in the WWII era, for any valid reason. The German racists sought the destruction of the Jews simply because they were Jews. By contrast, a whole bunch of Catholic priests have been implicated in some of the worst criminal activity imaginable--the seduction and sexual violation of youth. And the manner in which the Catholic hierarchy has often soft-pedaled these offenses and allowed the offenders to aimply change locations and continue in their priestly activities (with access to children) is absolutely outrageous!The Jews in Germany and Poland certainly never commited any systematic corruption like that. The Jews were innocent victims. The Catholic hierarchy has shown callousness and deceit in dealing with the long-standing sex scandals within its priesthood.

The PPP compared the discomfort being experience by the church's leaders to the "collective violence" against the Jews that culminated in the Holocaust. Where, one must ask, is anything remotely like "violence" being visited upon the Pope, the Cardinals, the Bishops who for so long have failed so miserably to seriously address the purulent festering sore of pedophilia that has for so long been contaminating the Catholic Church? Deserved and informed criticism is nothing like "violence."

German Catholics andmembersof certainother denominations traditionally have paid a "church tax" to the government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax), but now German Catholics are leaving the church and having their names removed from the church tax rolls. The church tax is collected by civil government and is sometimes actually withheld from paychecks of those who are members of particular churches, but when one leaves the church, the tax is no longer required. So at least some Germans, disgusted with the seemingly never-ending sex scandals and the church's miserable evasion and unresponsiveness to date, are getting out of the church and no longer paying the church tax.

I wonder what they think of the recent nutty utterances of the PPP!
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Wow.What an idiot. Thank goodness that this is one man.
One man's statements do not speak for the Church as a whole.
While I find the whole scandal obviously deplorable, I know that this PPP's stupidity does not represent the Catholic Church.
Nobody is immune to sin and corruption.
Pray for them.
quote:
While I find the whole scandal obviously deplorable, I know that this PPP's stupidity does not represent the Catholic Church


Veep, I'm afraid I am going to have to disagree. Yes, there have been scandals in every faith to some degree or another. But the level and depth and longevity of this most horrible of crimes goes far beyond what I would consider "normal." The mishandling of this goes all the way to the (supposedly) most holy among holy on this earth, the "infallible" pope.

If my church were to be shown to be corrupt from the Parrish all the way to the top, I would have no choice but to abandon it.

I can only pray for the victims and for the lord to give me the ability to stay the course with my own faith. Things like this sometimes make me question Who is really in charge of this earth . . . Or of anyone is in charge at all.
Yep. I agree with most of what you said. It is deeply sad. On many levels.
The degree of corruption is staggering. Believe me, I am grieving for the Church. However, I can't abandon it, and think that as long as we realize that Jesus is the head of the Church, we will gain strength from Him to stay the course.
I will continue to pray for the victims, as well as the priests and the hierarchy of the Church. God help us all!!!
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world!
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the "infallible" pope


PS- Really and truly, the Pope is only said to be "infallible" when he is teaching/speaking of the Church Doctrine of the Faith.
It is then, and only then that his teachings are infallible, as Apostolic successor, guided by the Holy Spirit.
No man is infallible otherwise. Just thought I'd try to dispell that myth. Smiler
The Pope and the Curia are rapidly becoming much like Queen Elizabeth and Buckingham Palace were when Diana Spencer died. It damaged her and her own "curia" immensely in the eyes of the people. It is time for the Pope and the Roman Curia to do an about face. The Archbishop of Canterbury is so irked at the remarks of Rome to the Irish Church that he called them out on it. And it takes a lot for the Anglican Communion to call out a sister with whom only technical and a few theological and canon law differences remain.

The Pope needs to use this as an example of human weakness and not just assert his power. He and the entire Curia need to lead reconciliation and penance for themselves as well as alleviating the suffering of the victims.

Lest people vote with their feet, and I have a feeling it is not going to be to the Old Catholic or Anglican Churches or to the Lutherans, rather out the door completely and on to the golf links on Sunday, the Pope needs to act NOW!
Yes, and I read somewhere that the English are attempting to dismantle the Vatican as a sovereign state, in order to shatter Pope Benedict's immunity. The times are a changing rapidly. Not for good, to be sure!
Oh, how I hope he does act quickly. This scandal has been on the forefront for so long, I hope the Pope deals with it swiftly, prayerfully and honestly. It's time for healing.
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Originally posted by vplee123:
quote:
the "infallible" pope

PS- Really and truly, the Pope is only said to be "infallible" when he is teaching/speaking of the Church Doctrine of the Faith.
It is then, and only then that his teachings are infallible, as Apostolic successor, guided by the Holy Spirit.
No man is infallible otherwise. Just thought I'd try to dispell that myth.

Hi VP,

While I will not join in any Pope bashing; I will have to call you on the infallible statement. NO MAN is infallible; only God has that attribute.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:

While I will not join in any Pope bashing; I will have to call you on the infallible statement. NO MAN is infallible; only God has that attribute.



Interesting coming from one who insists on his own biblical infallibility and has never retracted of apologized for numerous blatant mistakes made in this forum.
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Originally posted by Sofa King:
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Originally posted by Bill Gray:
While I will not join in any Pope bashing; I will have to call you on the infallible statement. NO MAN is infallible; only God has that attribute.

Interesting coming from one who insists on his own biblical infallibility and has never retracted of apologized for numerous blatant mistakes made in this forum.

Hi Sofa,

You are typcical of the Liberals. You make many baseless accusations -- but, when called on them -- you merely make more baseless accusations. In other words, you chatter to keep from answering.

You mentioned my "hate" and "threatening" of people. I have asked for examples -- and the silence is bursting my ears.

But, I am not surprised. It is hard to back up your accusations when there is nothing to share.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Well, Sofa has pointed out several errors- like the Girl Scout "hot" thing,
The stations of the cross
you said: "Not to be disrespectful; but the Stations of The Cross are only delineated in Roman Catholic Traditons and Catechisms. They are exclusively Roman Catholic tradition."
You also said that Catholics worship Mary and pray to statues.
Those are a few falsehoods I can recall of the top of my head-
As for the "hate" I believe it is in the form of things like "pack your hot weather clothes" and "I don't think you have to worry about what will happen in Heaven" or "Hell is taking reservations, etc, etc" I am paraphrasing, but you know what we're talking about.
Hateful statements won't get you the results you're looking for. Just sayin....
All B.G. needs to do is to take a look back at his posts and see what he has claimed in the past. Now I am given to ridiculing certain unorthodox teachings and cults, but never have I been so bold as to claim who will or will not be in Hell or in Heaven or made claims which cannot be backed up by any reliable source.

I pity people who choose polemics over reliable sources for their church history and alleged theology. The sources are readily available, in Latin, Greek as well as the modern European languages, English most certainly not excluded. Googling and just posting words from some alleged expert is so much easier than to actually find a primary source, but it is where the tares and the corn are separated, where hyperbole and actuality meet the scales.
Hi all,

Don't you just love the way the Dynamic Trio (Sofa, VP, Neal/Aude) avoid answering any direct questions? Ask a question of one of them and the silence is deafening. But, the other two buckaroos will chime in so loud that a fire engine horn could not be heard. Is that what is called "covering his butt?"

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill

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Dynamic Trio


Awww, Thanks! That's the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me! Smiler I've been called "cool", "personable" but never dynamic! I'm so flattered!
As far as questions, I have answered each and every one of your direct questions. I am 2 inches taller, too, for having been on your rack.! Smiler
And yep, I got my brothers back. Anytime!
Bill, when it comes to not answering direct questions, you are the master! So, tell me, WHEN are you going to admit you were wrong about the Planned Parenthood/GirlScout connection? When are you going to admit the tripe you posted the other day about "soft tissue" in dinosaur fossils was wrong? You won't, of course. You post lies and misinformation on adaily basis, and it is all politically motivated. It has NOTHING to do with God. You sir, are a liar, and a dangerous one at that, for trying to mislead people.

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