Hi to my Forum Friends,
In the discussion titled "A Child Of Satan" begun by an agnostic Forum Friend -- another Forum Friend states:
"If I believed that God and Satan are real, then I would believe that Satan makes people do bad things. So a child of the devil would be murderers and child molesters, people like Bernie Madoff, people who start cults that mislead people into doing wrong things -- to name a few.
I think that some people make poor choices and then try to blame it on the devil, as though they had no choice. I also think that some people do bad things because they are mentally ill. I often wonder why some people chose to do bad instead of good. Why choose evil over goodness?"
And, our agnostic Friend, let's call her Agnostic One, responds:
Assume for a moment that God is real. He made all of us, the good, the bad & the ugly (remember that movie?). He knows what we're going to eventually be like while we're still a baby. He already knows which of us is going to kill and which are not. He knows which of us is going to be a pretend Christian and which of us is going to be the real deal. He knows which of us don't want to play His games, and which ones will play. It's all mapped out.
He already knows which of us will be allowed in Heaven (according to the Bible, that number is very few) and which of us He will throw into the fire pit he made.
God was the one that made some people to do bad instead of good. He made them to choose evil over goodness. It all started out as His plan, and continues today.
So, we can see from their opening statements that both these Forum Friends are, or at least lean heavily toward being, agnostics. Let's take a look at some of their thoughts:
First, Agnostic Two writes, "I also think that some people do bad things because they are mentally ill. I often wonder why some people chose to do bad instead of good."
Mental illness may play a small role in folks doing evil things; but, that, in itself, is more a product of the main problem rather than the cause of the problem. What is the main problem? Simple: spiritual death!
In Genesis, we read:
Genesis 1:26, "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; . . . "
Genesis 1:27, "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."
Genesis 1:28, "God blessed them; and God said to them, 'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth,. . . '"
Genesis 1:31, "God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day."
If we go back and read about the first five days of the Creation, we read at the end of each day, ". . . and God saw that it was good." Yet, at the end of the sixth day, when God created man -- God declared, ". . . it was very good." From this, we can see that God was VERY pleased with the man and woman He had created. And that He created man to be good -- stable mentally, physically, and spiritually.
Since God created only good and very good -- what went wrong? Did God create evil? No. God created man to be very good; but, God did not want man to be a lifeless, brainless robot. He wanted man to be alive and vibrant, as He is alive and vibrant, i.e., in His image. The best way to accomplish this was to give man the gift of "free will."
What is the gift of "free will"? It is the faculty for man to choose his own actions, his own directions -- meaning, of course, that there would have to be choices, and there would have to be consequences for making wrong choices. Are all bad choices evil? No, but many are wrong, going in the wrong direction away from the perfection of God.
For man to be able to "choose" to follow the coming Christ -- man had to have the faculty to "choose" to not follow Him. If a person chooses to NOT follow Christ -- is that evil? No. But, if the person does not change directions, it will lead to an eternally bad consequence, eternally living out of the presence of the holy God, which is hell.
Therefore, mental illness is not the cause of evil in man; mental illness is one of the side effects of man being inherently sinful.
So, when Agnostic One declares, "God was the one that made some people to do bad instead of good" -- that is a wrong assumption. God did not, and will not, make a person choose bad, evil -- over good. That is totally against the nature of a holy God.
However, for a person to choose of path, there must be at least two paths from which to choose. If man is to choose the path of good, of following Christ -- there must be the alternate path to follow which is not good, i.e., evil, bad, etc. When God gave man the "free will" to do good; He has to allow the path for man to choose to do bad.
So, God has not, and will not, make a person choose to do bad or evil -- but, to facilitate the gift of "free will" He has to allow the evil. If a person has only one path to choose from -- where is the "free will" choice?
Then, Agnostic One tells us, "He already knows which of us will be allowed in Heaven (according to the Bible, that number is very few) and which of us He will throw into the fire pit He made. . . God was the one that made some people to do bad instead of good. He made them to choose evil over goodness. It all started out as His plan, and continues today."
My Friend, if I did not know that you are agnostic -- I would begin to believe you are a confirmed Calvinist; for you have just declared your belief in the Calvinist teaching of Predestination. No, my Friend, God did not just arbitrarily choose before the Creation to save a few, the Elect -- and condemn to hell the majority, the Reprobate.
Let's take a look at Scripture:
Romans 8:28-30, "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. (29) For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; (30) and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."
"For those whom He foreknew" -- what did He foreknow and about whom? If God had already foreordained who would be saved; then there would be no choice -- so what is there for Him to foreknow? Obviously, He had to give people a choice, i.e., the "free will" to make a choice between at least two choices. And, that Scripture passage tell us He foreknew which choice each of us will make. That makes sense, since He is omniscient, all knowing.
And, "those He foreknew -- He predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son," i.e., that we would have the righteousness of Christ attributed, or imputed, to us. And, those of us whom He has predestined, through foreknowledge, to eternal life -- He called us through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit; He justified us, i.e., with the righteousness of Christ attributed to us -- He sees us as justified (just as if we had never sinned).
One day, when our Redeemer Kinsman comes to Rapture His church, His body of believers, from this mortal earth -- we will be glorified, i.e., receive our glorified bodies so that we will be like Him in all ways except His deity (1 John 3:2).
Agnostic One tells us, "It all started out as His plan, and continues today."
In a sense, you are right. It is just that you have confused His plan. Yes, from before the beginning of time, before the Creation -- God had a plan. The basis of His plan is found in 2 Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."
God created all of mankind in His image and His desire is that all mankind will spend eternity in His presence. However, since He also desired that we truly love Him of our own accord -- He gave us the gift of "free will." In giving man that gift, He realized that some would use that gift to "choose" their own way, to choose the world's way -- instead of choosing to follow Him.
So, knowing this, or better explained -- "foreknowing" this -- He had His plan all ready to go when man, Adam, did give in to worldly desires and fall into sin. When Adam fell into sin through the act of disobedience, man was condemned to death: physical death which began immediately as a process of death; and spiritual death which occurred immediately upon Adam's fall, breaking the spiritual link, the spiritual communion, between man and God.
Since God's love and justice are, like Him, perfect -- for His perfect justice to be satisfied, there had to be a perfect sacrifice. And, it had to be a blood sacrifice, for life is found flowing in the bloodstream of mankind:
Leviticus 17:11, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul."
So, for the perfect sacrifice to satisfy God's perfect justice -- there had to be a blood sacrifice of a perfect man. None of us qualify. Not Adam, nor anyone since Adam, qualifies as the perfect sacrifice, for we are all sinful (Romans 3:23). So, just as God provided the perfect sacrifice, the ram, when Abraham took his son, Isaac, to the sacrificial altar (Genesis 22:13) -- God's plan was that He would have to provide the perfect sacrifice to satisfy His death penalty against man. He had to provide the perfect Man, His Son.
His plan was that He would send His only Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross. The perfect Lamb of God would pay the sin death penalty for all mankind. When Jesus Christ, the sacrificial Lamb of God, died on the cross; He died once for all people.
In those days of the Roman Empire, a person in prison had a "Certificate of Debts" nailed to his cell door -- and until he had satisfied the Roman justice for all those debts, he had to stay in his prison cell. When Christ went to the cross -- the "Certificate of Debts/Sins" for all mankind was effectively nailed to His cross -- satisfying the perfect justice of God.
Acts 2:23, "This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death."
Colossians 2:14, "Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."
That was God's fore-ordained plan, through His foreknowledge of each person's "free will" choice -- His Way to offer individual eternal salvation to all mankind.
1 Peter 1:1-2, "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure."
God knew that man could never save himself. But, God, in His foreknowledge, knew that man must have a Savior. So, He sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross to pay the unfathomable sin debt for all mankind -- so that all men would have the opportunity, by His grace, through faith in Christ's finished (John 19:30) work on the cross -- to believe and receive His "paid in full" free gift of eternal life in Christ.
When Agnostic One declares, "He already knows which of us will be allowed in Heaven (according to the Bible, that number is very few) and which of us He will throw into the fire pit He made" -- she is right in one way, that God, in His omniscience, knows who will choose the narrow gate to eternal life in Christ, and who will choose the more popular path of worldly desires which leads to eternal destruction, hell.
That door of eternal life is open to all. Yet, not all will choose the path, gate, or doorway of eternal life. That is the meaning of Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:
Matthew 7:13, "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."
He knows that, although He has already "paid in full" man's sin debt to God, i.e., although He has purchased a full pardon for all of us -- many will continue to sit in their Sin Prison Cell, preferring the attractions and desires of the world -- instead of choosing to get up and walk out of that Sin Prison Cell and into the eternal joy of God's presence.
So, when my Friend, Agnostic One, tells us, "He already knows which of us will be allowed in Heaven (according to the Bible, that number is very few) and which of us He will throw into the fire pit he made. . . God was the one that made some people to do bad instead of good. He made them to choose evil over goodness" -- that is not true.
He has opened both doors, the door to eternal life and the door of eternal destruction, for all of us. But, each individual person MUST choose which door to enter. God has not predetermined the door for us, nor will He force anyone to choose either door.
The real problem man has is that he MUST choose: Spiritual life in and with Christ -- or SPIRITUAL DEATH without Christ.
The choice is a personal choice; but, it IS an eternal choice. And, my Friends, eternity is a very, very long time. Please, choose wisely.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
