You are right the correct answer after 9/11 would have been to cut out military by 95% and just adopting socialism.
The correct response to 9/11 would have been to investigate the crime, which was a terrorist attack, and present our evidence to the UN for action. We had the support of the entire world.
With international cooperation we have already captured high ranking al Qaeda operatives and had crippled their leadership. But thanks to Bush's greed and incompetence in attacking Iraq and setting up a corrupt puppet regime in Afghanistan and the killing and the atrocities we have committed in both countries they have not only rebuilt but have recruited more and are growing stronger. The Taliban is now regrouping in Afghanistan and is also growing stronger.
Bush is now threatening Iran, which like Iraq has nothing to do with al Qaeda or 9/11 and he is now intervening in Somalia and setting up an "African Command Center."
The world see's Bush is after the oil, profits and power.
Hatred for the US has grown around the world.
An educated American public would see his lies and wars for what they are but they are too busy struggling to find decent housing and health care on stagnate wages that keep leaving the US everyday.
Our corporate media leads the American people around in circles and keeps them distracted with fear, nonsense stories and celebrities.
With international cooperation we have already captured high ranking al Qaeda operatives and had crippled their leadership. But thanks to Bush's greed and incompetence in attacking Iraq and setting up a corrupt puppet regime in Afghanistan and the killing and the atrocities we have committed in both countries they have not only rebuilt but have recruited more and are growing stronger. The Taliban is now regrouping in Afghanistan and is also growing stronger.
Bush is now threatening Iran, which like Iraq has nothing to do with al Qaeda or 9/11 and he is now intervening in Somalia and setting up an "African Command Center."
The world see's Bush is after the oil, profits and power.
Hatred for the US has grown around the world.
An educated American public would see his lies and wars for what they are but they are too busy struggling to find decent housing and health care on stagnate wages that keep leaving the US everyday.
Our corporate media leads the American people around in circles and keeps them distracted with fear, nonsense stories and celebrities.
If we spent HALF as much money on trying to help people instead of finding better ways to kill them, I have a feeling that there would not be so many people out there willing to fly airplanes into our buildings. Just a thought.
The Bush administration, on behalf of the Military/Industrial monsters, have done an effective job of brainwashing the American public, exactly as was done during the Vietnam War. All they had to do was go back and replace the word "communism" with "terrorist". I remember when I was growing up, the big thing was we had to fight to stop all the communists from taking over the world and destroying all our freedoms. "If South Vietnam falls to the communists, next all of Asia will fall, and the rest of the world will soon follow. We must fight them "over there" before they attack us on our home soil."
They try to brainwash the public by selling this stereotype that everyone in the Middle East is either a suicide bomber or a suicide bomber wannabe. Because, if we are able to convince our citizens that these people are "fundamentally different" from ourselves -- that they are somehow less human, then it makes the idea of killing them a little more palatable. I wonder how many of the people who spout off about how ALL people of Middle Eastern origin (except the Israelis) are "islamo-fascists" bent on imposing their way of life on the entire world -- how many of them have actually MET or gotten to know ANYONE from the region? I have lived and worked in the Middle East, and I can tell you first hand that, while they may worship in a mosque instead of a church, and while they may call their creator Allah instead of God, they are people just like you and me. Yes, I know there are extremists and people who believe that violence and "terrorism" is the way to go, but I didn't meet anyone like that in the several years that I lived, worked, and travelled in the Middle East. We have lots of people in this country as well who are evil also.
The Bush administration, on behalf of the Military/Industrial monsters, have done an effective job of brainwashing the American public, exactly as was done during the Vietnam War. All they had to do was go back and replace the word "communism" with "terrorist". I remember when I was growing up, the big thing was we had to fight to stop all the communists from taking over the world and destroying all our freedoms. "If South Vietnam falls to the communists, next all of Asia will fall, and the rest of the world will soon follow. We must fight them "over there" before they attack us on our home soil."
They try to brainwash the public by selling this stereotype that everyone in the Middle East is either a suicide bomber or a suicide bomber wannabe. Because, if we are able to convince our citizens that these people are "fundamentally different" from ourselves -- that they are somehow less human, then it makes the idea of killing them a little more palatable. I wonder how many of the people who spout off about how ALL people of Middle Eastern origin (except the Israelis) are "islamo-fascists" bent on imposing their way of life on the entire world -- how many of them have actually MET or gotten to know ANYONE from the region? I have lived and worked in the Middle East, and I can tell you first hand that, while they may worship in a mosque instead of a church, and while they may call their creator Allah instead of God, they are people just like you and me. Yes, I know there are extremists and people who believe that violence and "terrorism" is the way to go, but I didn't meet anyone like that in the several years that I lived, worked, and travelled in the Middle East. We have lots of people in this country as well who are evil also.
quote:Originally posted by Pogo142:
The correct response to 9/11 would have been to investigate the crime, which was a terrorist attack, and present our evidence to the UN for action. We had the support of the entire world.
With international cooperation we have already captured high ranking al Qaeda operatives and had crippled their leadership. But thanks to Bush's greed and incompetence in attacking Iraq and setting up a corrupt puppet regime in Afghanistan and the killing and the atrocities we have committed in both countries they have not only rebuilt but have recruited more and are growing stronger. The Taliban is now regrouping in Afghanistan and is also growing stronger.
Bush is now threatening Iran, which like Iraq has nothing to do with al Qaeda or 9/11 and he is now intervening in Somalia and setting up an "African Command Center."
The world see's Bush is after the oil, profits and power.
Hatred for the US has grown around the world.
An educated American public would see his lies and wars for what they are but they are too busy struggling to find decent housing and health care on stagnate wages that keep leaving the US everyday.
Our corporate media leads the American people around in circles and keeps them distracted with fear, nonsense stories and celebrities.
You are correct, and after 9/11 we did have virtually the entire world as allies in the war against those who attact us. Two of our strongest allies were Germany and France, who stood by us , and still do, in Afganistan.
Then Bush decided to pizz all that good will away and attact Iraq which had NOTHING to do with the situation at hand. NOTHING!. Our strongest allies knew better, and refused to partake in this wrong minded venture.
The rest of the world was right on Iraq, Bush was wrong. We should leave Iraq to sink or swim, and get back to fighting those who harmed us, and those who would.
I agree Peace Brother. And I was in high school in the 1960's and the rhetoric is the same, they just replaced Communist with Islamic Terrorist. They are after the oil and need to demonize Arabs and Muslims to justify their killing and stealing. Israel does the same because it wants to steal the land.
I too have met and know people from the Mideast and they are no different then us. They have some different customs and such but we all want to live in peace, be happy and raise families. There are extremists over there as we have our extremists here, like Bush and the corporate military class who idolize greed and power.
They lie to the American people because they know we would not support their wars for power. The coperate media is their PR Mouthpiece.
I agree also excelman and keep in mind Bush let bin Laden get away. That's how much he cares. Yet the conservatives try to blame Clinton for 9/11. They are pathetic.
We need to withdraw from the region and support democracy and freedom. We support repressive regimes in Egypt and Jordan and support Israelis ethnic cleansing and land stealing.
Al Qaeda really has little support from the people. If we remove the causes they feed upon they will be exposed and the people of the region will handle them.
I too have met and know people from the Mideast and they are no different then us. They have some different customs and such but we all want to live in peace, be happy and raise families. There are extremists over there as we have our extremists here, like Bush and the corporate military class who idolize greed and power.
They lie to the American people because they know we would not support their wars for power. The coperate media is their PR Mouthpiece.
I agree also excelman and keep in mind Bush let bin Laden get away. That's how much he cares. Yet the conservatives try to blame Clinton for 9/11. They are pathetic.
We need to withdraw from the region and support democracy and freedom. We support repressive regimes in Egypt and Jordan and support Israelis ethnic cleansing and land stealing.
Al Qaeda really has little support from the people. If we remove the causes they feed upon they will be exposed and the people of the region will handle them.
If you you've seen the movie "Flags of Our Fathers," the film makes mention
of the World War II radio broadcasts by "Tokyo Rose". At the time, she had
the best music on her station.
During World War II, the Japanese developed a way to try to demoralize the
American forces. Psychological warfare experts developed a message they
felt would work. They gave the script to their famous broadcaster "Tokyo
Rose", and every day she would broadcast this same message packaged in
different ways. The Japanese hoped it would have a negative impact on
American GI's morale.
What was that demoralizing message? It had three main points:
1. Your President is lying to you.
2. This war is illegal.
3. You cannot win the war.
Does this sound familiar today? It is because we are being bombarded by
Tokyo Hillary, Tokyo Harry, Tokyo Teddy, Tokyo Nancy, Tokyo Murtha, etc.,and
they have picked up the same message and are broadcasting it on Tokyo CNN,
Tokyo ABC, Tokyo CBS, Tokyo NBC, etc., to our troops.
The only difference is that they claim to support our troops before they
demoralize them. Come to think of it, Tokyo Rose told the troops she was on
their side, too.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote."
....Benjamin Franklin
of the World War II radio broadcasts by "Tokyo Rose". At the time, she had
the best music on her station.
During World War II, the Japanese developed a way to try to demoralize the
American forces. Psychological warfare experts developed a message they
felt would work. They gave the script to their famous broadcaster "Tokyo
Rose", and every day she would broadcast this same message packaged in
different ways. The Japanese hoped it would have a negative impact on
American GI's morale.
What was that demoralizing message? It had three main points:
1. Your President is lying to you.
2. This war is illegal.
3. You cannot win the war.
Does this sound familiar today? It is because we are being bombarded by
Tokyo Hillary, Tokyo Harry, Tokyo Teddy, Tokyo Nancy, Tokyo Murtha, etc.,and
they have picked up the same message and are broadcasting it on Tokyo CNN,
Tokyo ABC, Tokyo CBS, Tokyo NBC, etc., to our troops.
The only difference is that they claim to support our troops before they
demoralize them. Come to think of it, Tokyo Rose told the troops she was on
their side, too.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote."
....Benjamin Franklin
quote:too have met and know people from the Mideast and they are no different then us.
quote:Originally posted by TIMGOTHARD:
If you you've seen the movie "Flags of Our Fathers," the film makes mention
of the World War II radio broadcasts by "Tokyo Rose". At the time, she had
the best music on her station.
During World War II, the Japanese developed a way to try to demoralize the
American forces. Psychological warfare experts developed a message they
felt would work. They gave the script to their famous broadcaster "Tokyo
Rose", and every day she would broadcast this same message packaged in
different ways. The Japanese hoped it would have a negative impact on
American GI's morale.
What was that demoralizing message? It had three main points:
1. Your President is lying to you.
2. This war is illegal.
3. You cannot win the war.
Does this sound familiar today? It is because we are being bombarded by
Tokyo Hillary, Tokyo Harry, Tokyo Teddy, Tokyo Nancy, Tokyo Murtha, etc.,and
they have picked up the same message and are broadcasting it on Tokyo CNN,
Tokyo ABC, Tokyo CBS, Tokyo NBC, etc., to our troops.
The only difference is that they claim to support our troops before they
demoralize them. Come to think of it, Tokyo Rose told the troops she was on
their side, too.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote."
....Benjamin Franklin
You make a good point and here are some others:
Mission Accomplished
Turning the corner
Last throes
Slam dunk
Cake walk
Both parties should have a guilty conscience.
quote:Originally posted by TIMGOTHARD:
The only difference is that they claim to support our troops before they demoralize them.
I have no doubt that our troops are fully capable of pulling off just about anything. THEIR capabilities have never, I repeat, never been in question. I disagree with where their Commander in Chief sent them (Iraq).
quote:Originally posted by muspamaddy:
You make a good point and here are some others:
Mission Accomplished
Turning the corner
Last throes
Slam dunk
Cake walk
Both parties should have a guilty conscience.
GREAT reply here!!!! All the deceit and all the LIES that have been told to us for the last five years will cost ALL of us boatloads of money, but it will cost some really bad times because one reaps what they sow!!!
Yes, great answer muspamaddy.
The difference of course is FDR wasn't lying but Bush is, the war is illegal and we are losing. Even the US troops think we should leave.
Besides the Iraqi polls that call for us to set a time table and leave the majority of the Iraqi people say that US troops are "Legitimate Targets." We have top ask ourselves why are we there?
For the profits of the oil companies, of course.
The difference of course is FDR wasn't lying but Bush is, the war is illegal and we are losing. Even the US troops think we should leave.
Besides the Iraqi polls that call for us to set a time table and leave the majority of the Iraqi people say that US troops are "Legitimate Targets." We have top ask ourselves why are we there?
For the profits of the oil companies, of course.
delete:
quote:
too have met and know people from the Mideast and they are no different then us.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
I have met people from the Mideast and they are just like us. Are you saying they are not?
The Palestinians live under a repressive occupation and are being killed, brutalized, imprisoned and starved as they are ethnically cleansed from their land. The European Zionists came in the 1880's and slowly stole their land, just as Europeans did to Native Americans here.
We have Military Schools for children and we also indoctrinate children through our culture, war movies and schools. First graders put their hands on their heart and pledge allegiance to the flag and play with toy gund and now video games, "killing the enemey."
It was the US that invaded Iraq on lies to steal their resources. We have killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's.
We also have people that march around in Nazi uniforms and praise Hitler and many different groups teach kids how to shoot real guns and to kill the enemy. They don't represent all Americans.
Your post is a perfect example of classic propaganda. Based on ignorance it demonizes a people and tells us "they are not like us" so it's OK to kill them and commit atrocities.
If you went to other real sites you will find Arab and Muslim children playing soccer or reading and writing and learning musical intsruments or computers.
US and Israel use lies and racism to demonize a people so they can steal their land and resources.
Yes, we are so civilized.
quote:
too have met and know people from the Mideast and they are no different then us.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
I have met people from the Mideast and they are just like us. Are you saying they are not?
The Palestinians live under a repressive occupation and are being killed, brutalized, imprisoned and starved as they are ethnically cleansed from their land. The European Zionists came in the 1880's and slowly stole their land, just as Europeans did to Native Americans here.
We have Military Schools for children and we also indoctrinate children through our culture, war movies and schools. First graders put their hands on their heart and pledge allegiance to the flag and play with toy gund and now video games, "killing the enemey."
It was the US that invaded Iraq on lies to steal their resources. We have killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's.
We also have people that march around in Nazi uniforms and praise Hitler and many different groups teach kids how to shoot real guns and to kill the enemy. They don't represent all Americans.
Your post is a perfect example of classic propaganda. Based on ignorance it demonizes a people and tells us "they are not like us" so it's OK to kill them and commit atrocities.
If you went to other real sites you will find Arab and Muslim children playing soccer or reading and writing and learning musical intsruments or computers.
US and Israel use lies and racism to demonize a people so they can steal their land and resources.
Yes, we are so civilized.
quote:Originally posted by Pogo142:
Yes, great answer muspamaddy.
The difference of course is FDR wasn't lying but Bush is, the war is illegal and we are losing. Even the US troops think we should leave.
Besides the Iraqi polls that call for us to set a time table and leave the majority of the Iraqi people say that US troops are "Legitimate Targets." We have top ask ourselves why are we there?
For the profits of the oil companies, of course.
Our opinions differ on the war. One thing that I know as my husband is in the military and in Iraq right now, and I know hundreds of famliies and soldiers, the majority know it isn't time to leave yet. We are working toward that and making much progress. Sure, the Iraqi's want us to leave, but not before they're able to handle things themselves. Iraqi citizens are helping American's when they can against the insurgents.
I do believe that we are probably there for oil, but I also know that there is so much I, the average American citizen doesn't know. You are fooled if you think that everything the media tells you is all there is.
quote:Originally posted by _Joy_:quote:Originally posted by TIMGOTHARD:
The only difference is that they claim to support our troops before they demoralize them.
I have no doubt that our troops are fully capable of pulling off just about anything. THEIR capabilities have never, I repeat, never been in question. I disagree with where their Commander in Chief sent them (Iraq).
Joy, I know you are a Christian, as I am. President Bush also is a Christian and had millions of people praying for him and his decisions, especially after 9-11. He isn't doing everything perfectly to suit all people everywhere, (really, who could?). But, I trust him and his decisions and if he says we needed to go in there (Iraq), then I believe we did. To me, it is also a matter of trusting God to answer the prayers for wisdom etc.that were being prayed for President Bush. (OK, I know I just opened myself up as a target, Go ahead!)
I have heard people speak on the radio program Democracy Now from the group Military Families Speak Out, ( I believe their name is) as well as soldiers who say that many soldiers want to leave and feel we are not helping or wanted, though some do say we provide a certain amount of security at times. I have also read articles and interviews by soldiers and their families in the independent media, as well as the foreign media.
I don't rely on the mainstream corporate media much but on sources in the progressive Independent Media and foreign press. I have been following the independent media since the Vietnam War and have always found them to be reliable and accurate. They have been reporting demonstrations in Iraq against the occupation and have reported Iraqi polls calling for US troops to leave. The corporate media ignores it.
The corporate media lied about the WMD and have been a PR promoter of the war until they realize they must begin to tell the truth or they will lose credibility and control of the US public. They finally have reported about Iraqi polls and now polls among US soldiers that say we should leave.
There are over a hundred attacks a day and the majority of the Iraqi people feel US troops are "Legitimate Targets." That says it all right there. Who are we defending?
The majority of the Iraqi people are against a civil war. They say the US occupation is fueling the war. We are backing a Shiite government that has excluded the Sunni. Many Iraqi leaders have stated the Iraqi people will have to work out their differences and come to terms when we leave. Support for al Qaeda will dry up when we leave.
Bush is after the oil and that's why we are there. He is now targeting Iran and Somalia and Africa for oil.
There were no WMD, it was lie so why are we there? Bush a liar and a murderer. A war criminal. He attacks a weaker country on lies to steal their resources. He authorizes kidnappings, secret preisons and torture. Doesn't sound very Christian to me.
There was a great quote I once saw by Thomas Jefferson regarding religion. He said, "Religion is something we live, not something we read or say."
I don't rely on the mainstream corporate media much but on sources in the progressive Independent Media and foreign press. I have been following the independent media since the Vietnam War and have always found them to be reliable and accurate. They have been reporting demonstrations in Iraq against the occupation and have reported Iraqi polls calling for US troops to leave. The corporate media ignores it.
The corporate media lied about the WMD and have been a PR promoter of the war until they realize they must begin to tell the truth or they will lose credibility and control of the US public. They finally have reported about Iraqi polls and now polls among US soldiers that say we should leave.
There are over a hundred attacks a day and the majority of the Iraqi people feel US troops are "Legitimate Targets." That says it all right there. Who are we defending?
The majority of the Iraqi people are against a civil war. They say the US occupation is fueling the war. We are backing a Shiite government that has excluded the Sunni. Many Iraqi leaders have stated the Iraqi people will have to work out their differences and come to terms when we leave. Support for al Qaeda will dry up when we leave.
Bush is after the oil and that's why we are there. He is now targeting Iran and Somalia and Africa for oil.
There were no WMD, it was lie so why are we there? Bush a liar and a murderer. A war criminal. He attacks a weaker country on lies to steal their resources. He authorizes kidnappings, secret preisons and torture. Doesn't sound very Christian to me.
There was a great quote I once saw by Thomas Jefferson regarding religion. He said, "Religion is something we live, not something we read or say."
quote:Originally posted by TIMGOTHARD:
Joy, I know you are a Christian, as I am. President Bush also is a Christian and had millions of people praying for him and his decisions, especially after 9-11. He isn't doing everything perfectly to suit all people everywhere, (really, who could?). But, I trust him and his decisions and if he says we needed to go in there (Iraq), then I believe we did. To me, it is also a matter of trusting God to answer the prayers for wisdom etc.that were being prayed for President Bush. (OK, I know I just opened myself up as a target, Go ahead!)
Wow. Let me put it this way. My Mother is a Christian & I love her, prayed for her all my life. Even though I know she loves me, she allowed me to live in a house where I was abused. She broke a trust that took years to earn back.
Same with Bush. I prayed for him, voted for him, but he broke the trust I placed in him. It would take a long time for him to earn it back.
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them." Matthew 7:15-16 <NIV>
I am not judging him as a Christian, but I am told to be wise to the wolf. His fruit tells me to watch out. Just my opinion.
quote:Originally posted by pba:
The US$564 billion war for profit:
This year's proposed US spending on the Iraq war is larger than the military budgets of China and Russia combined. The combined spending requests would push the total for Iraq to US$564 billion, according to the non-partisan Congressional Research Service
http://www.greenleft.org.au/2007/708/36771
If this is indeed a war for profit than what is the issue with spending the money on it? Spend $564 Billion to make even more than $564B, the tax payers aren't footing a bill and the coffers grow. Isn't that what for profit implies?
All through history countries went to war for profits. They would use the money collected in taxes from the people and use it to invade and steal other countries resources. We now live under international law where such behavior is seen as immoral and illegal.
The people are paying for the war in dollars and lives while corporations profit. I for one reject the idea that my tax dollars are used to kill and destroy and American lives should be used as canon fodder for the profits of others.
It's immoral and illegal.
The people are paying for the war in dollars and lives while corporations profit. I for one reject the idea that my tax dollars are used to kill and destroy and American lives should be used as canon fodder for the profits of others.
It's immoral and illegal.
A proven way to jump start a country's economy is to start a war. Case in point the huge boom in military spending during World War II. As government spending surged, people's incomes rose, factories again operated at full capacity, and the hardships of the Depression faded into memory. Starting wars to protect economic resources is nothing new.
WW2 left Germany and Japan in ruins and also Europe who's soil it was fought on. Just as bin Laden's attack on the WTC didn't do much for our economy and neither is the Iraq War. Cost us half a trillion already.
Private contractors profits are up as is the defense industry or the : MIlitary Industrial Complex." Thousands of Americans are dead and wounded or maimed. Think that is a boom for our economy?
Beside being an extremely callous and cold blooded excuse for a war I think we own it to our children that they are not used as cannon fodder for others profits.
Private contractors profits are up as is the defense industry or the : MIlitary Industrial Complex." Thousands of Americans are dead and wounded or maimed. Think that is a boom for our economy?
Beside being an extremely callous and cold blooded excuse for a war I think we own it to our children that they are not used as cannon fodder for others profits.
I didn't say it was RIGHT. I just said it was SO.