Bill, I believe it means having control over. We are told to keep our bodies under subjection. If one for whatever reason can not, rather than allowing it to doom the soul it would be better to remove that thing that offends.
quote:Originally posted by themax:
Bill, I believe it means having control over. We are told to keep our bodies under subjection. If one for whatever reason can not, rather than allowing it to doom the soul it would be better to remove that thing that offends.
Hi Max,
Yes, that is true that we are to control our thoughts and actions -- but, do you REALLY believe that Jesus wants you to cut off your hand or pluck out your eye?
No, He wants you to turn from the world and follow Him; to pluck that sin out of your life, spiritually, with the strength and help of the Holy Spirit -- not mutilate your body. He loves you too much for that.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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I know this is silly ,but, If for some strange defect every women you saw caused you to lust in such a way that you would commit a sin,say rape.
Now after several times in prison, because as soon as you got out you raped the 1st women you saw.
Would it occur to you that if you could not see a women you would not want to rape her. So before getting out, you just might opt for blindness rather than losing your freedom?
Just a silly question.
Now after several times in prison, because as soon as you got out you raped the 1st women you saw.
Would it occur to you that if you could not see a women you would not want to rape her. So before getting out, you just might opt for blindness rather than losing your freedom?
Just a silly question.
quote:Originally posted by themax:
I know this is silly ,but, If for some strange defect every women you saw caused you to lust in such a way that you would commit a sin,say rape. Now after several times in prison, because as soon as you got out you raped the 1st women you saw. Would it occur to you that if you could not see a women you would not want to rape her. So before getting out, you just might opt for blindness rather than losing your freedom? Just a silly question.
Hi Max,
Sorry, but that is not something I can even relate to -- not in my scope of thinking. But, do I think that such a man should be castrated? If not, for sure locked up in prison for life with no chance of parole.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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Of course you can't relate, neither can I. But there are people so sick in their mind they could.
That's why we keep our self under subjection. So there is no need of the cutting or plucking Christ spoke of.
But Bill, Jesus said it, and I believe it.
That's why we keep our self under subjection. So there is no need of the cutting or plucking Christ spoke of.
But Bill, Jesus said it, and I believe it.
quote:Originally posted by themax:
Of course you can't relate, neither can I. But there are people so sick in their mind they could.
That's why we keep our self under subjection. So there is no need of the cutting or plucking Christ spoke of. But Bill, Jesus said it, and I believe it.
Hi Max,
And, we can still be Christian brothers -- you in your legalistic camp; me in my conservative camp -- and agree to disagree on a few non-essential Christian doctrines -- without allowing it to divide us.
The harm is not in our agreeing to disagee on non-essential doctrines. The harm is when we allow that to divide us in the eyes of the secular world. For that gives them the false sense of security of believing that Satan is winning. When you and I know that Satan has already lost the war.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Posted 30 August 2010 11:17 PM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
Of course you can't relate, neither can I. But there are people so sick in their mind they could.
That's why we keep our self under subjection. So there is no need of the cutting or plucking Christ spoke of. But Bill, Jesus said it, and I believe it.
Hi Max,
And, we can still be Christian brothers -- you in your legalistic camp; me in my conservative camp -- and agree to disagree on a few non-essential Christian doctrines -- without allowing it to divide us.
The harm is not in our agreeing to disagee on non-essential doctrines. The harm is when we allow that to divide us in the eyes of the secular world. For that gives them the false sense of security of believing that Satan is winning. When you and I know that Satan has already lost the war.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Well Bill,all I can add is that I really,off the top of my head, think of an "non-essential" Christian doctrine.
quote:Originally posted by themax:
Well Bill, all I can add is that I really, off the top of my head, (can't) think of an "non-essential" Christian doctrine.
Hi Max,
There are Essential Christian Beliefs that, if any church teaches anything different, it is not a Christian church. These are the Christian Doctrines which directly affect and determine our salvation.
What are those Essential Christian Beliefs?
1. The Deity of Jesus Christ --- God incarnate -- fully a man; yet, fully God.
2. The Trinity --- God eternally existing; manifested in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
3. The Bible -- Is the inspired Written Word of God and is the sole authority for Christian faith, salvation, and our Christian life.
4. Salvation by Grace --- By grace you are saved, through faith in Jesus Christ.
5. The Resurrection of Christ --- He rose from the dead, that we may also be resurrected.
6. The Gospel --- The birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ according to Scripture.
7. Heaven and Hell -- Both are real places and are the only two eternal destinations available to all mankind.
And, there are what we call Non-Essentional Christian Beliefs. Does this mean that these teachings and doctrines are not important to our Christian faith? No. It only means that these Non-Essential doctrines do not affect our salvation and we can agree to agree or disagree on them. These include such teachings as the End Times, baptism, method and timing of baptism, young earth versus old earth, "once saved, always saved" -- and, they would include such teachings as Calvinism and Arminianism. None of these affect our salvation -- but, some can sure play havoc with our sense of eternal security in Christ.
This, Max, is what I always mean when I speak of the Essential Christian Beliefs or doctrines. Thank you for helping me clear this up so that no one else is confused about what is necessary to be a Christian believer.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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Bill , point #3 Yes we are saved by nothing but the grace of or Savior Jesus the Christ. However, it take obedience to Christ before his grace covers us.
If one is not ready to obey the words of our Savior, then His grace will not cover an unbeliever.
If one is not ready to obey the words of our Savior, then His grace will not cover an unbeliever.
quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by themax:
Well Bill, all I can add is that I really, off the top of my head, (can't) think of an "non-essential" Christian doctrine.
Hi Max,
There are Essential Christian Beliefs that, if any church teaches anything different, it is not a Christian church. These are the Christian Doctrines which directly affect and determine our salvation.
What are those Essential Christian Beliefs?
1. The Deity of Jesus Christ --- God incarnate -- fully a man; yet, fully God.
2. The Trinity --- God eternally existing; manifested in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
3. The Bible -- Is the inspired Written Word of God and is the sole authority for Christian faith, salvation, and our Christian life.
4. Salvation by Grace --- By grace you are saved, through faith in Jesus Christ.
5. The Resurrection of Christ --- He rose from the dead, that we may also be resurrected.
6. The Gospel --- The birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ according to Scripture.
7. Heaven and Hell -- Both are real places and are the only two eternal destinations available to all mankind.
And, there are what we call Non-Essentional Christian Beliefs. Does this mean that these teachings and doctrines are not important to our Christian faith? No. It only means that these Non-Essential doctrines do not affect our salvation and we can agree to agree or disagree on them. These include such teachings as the End Times, baptism, method and timing of baptism, young earth versus old earth, "once saved, always saved" -- and, they would include such teachings as Calvinism and Arminianism. None of these affect our salvation -- but, some can sure play havoc with our sense of eternal security in Christ.
This, Max, is what I always mean when I speak of the Essential Christian Beliefs or doctrines. Thank you for helping me clear this up so that no one else is confused about what is necessary to be a Christian believer.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
Bill,
I don't mean to be a nag, But some of this is your opinion. You can't assume to
speak for the entire christian world.
Not every christian believes the way you do and in some ways not the same things
you do. Don't include everyone with yourself.
You can't dictate what everybody should believe or not believe.
With all due respect.
quote:Originally posted by Kraven:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by themax:
Well Bill, all I can add is that I really, off the top of my head, (can't) think of an "non-essential" Christian doctrine.
Hi Max,
There are Essential Christian Beliefs that, if any church teaches anything different, it is not a Christian church. These are the Christian Doctrines which directly affect and determine our salvation.
What are those Essential Christian Beliefs?
1. The Deity of Jesus Christ --- God incarnate -- fully a man; yet, fully God.
2. The Trinity --- God eternally existing; manifested in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
3. The Bible -- Is the inspired Written Word of God and is the sole authority for Christian faith, salvation, and our Christian life.
4. Salvation by Grace --- By grace you are saved, through faith in Jesus Christ.
5. The Resurrection of Christ --- He rose from the dead, that we may also be resurrected.
6. The Gospel --- The birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ according to Scripture.
7. Heaven and Hell -- Both are real places and are the only two eternal destinations available to all mankind.
And, there are what we call Non-Essentional Christian Beliefs. Does this mean that these teachings and doctrines are not important to our Christian faith? No. It only means that these Non-Essential doctrines do not affect our salvation and we can agree to agree or disagree on them. These include such teachings as the End Times, baptism, method and timing of baptism, young earth versus old earth, "once saved, always saved" -- and, they would include such teachings as Calvinism and Arminianism. None of these affect our salvation -- but, some can sure play havoc with our sense of eternal security in Christ.
This, Max, is what I always mean when I speak of the Essential Christian Beliefs or doctrines. Thank you for helping me clear this up so that no one else is confused about what is necessary to be a Christian believer.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill
Bill,
I don't mean to be a nag, But some of this is your opinion. You can't assume to
speak for the entire christian world.
Not every christian believes the way you do and in some ways not the same things
you do. Don't include everyone with yourself.
You can't dictate what everybody should believe or not believe.
With all due respect.
Hi Kraven,
These are not Essential Christian Beliefs that I made up or coined. These are taught in the Bible.
Which of the seven Essential Christian Beliefs that I have listed do you NOT agree with and believe should NOT define a Christian church?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by Kraven:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by themax:
Well Bill, all I can add is that I really, off the top of my head, (can't) think of an "non-essential" Christian doctrine.
Hi Max,
There are Essential Christian Beliefs that, if any church teaches anything different, it is not a Christian church. These are the Christian Doctrines which directly affect and determine our salvation.
What are those Essential Christian Beliefs?
1. The Deity of Jesus Christ --- God incarnate -- fully a man; yet, fully God.
2. The Trinity --- God eternally existing; manifested in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
3. The Bible -- Is the inspired Written Word of God and is the sole authority for Christian faith, salvation, and our Christian life.
4. Salvation by Grace --- By grace you are saved, through faith in Jesus Christ.
5. The Resurrection of Christ --- He rose from the dead, that we may also be resurrected.
6. The Gospel --- The birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ according to Scripture.
7. Heaven and Hell -- Both are real places and are the only two eternal destinations available to all mankind.
And, there are what we call Non-Essentional Christian Beliefs. Does this mean that these teachings and doctrines are not important to our Christian faith? No. It only means that these Non-Essential doctrines do not affect our salvation and we can agree to agree or disagree on them. These include such teachings as the End Times, baptism, method and timing of baptism, young earth versus old earth, "once saved, always saved" -- and, they would include such teachings as Calvinism and Arminianism. None of these affect our salvation -- but, some can sure play havoc with our sense of eternal security in Christ.
This, Max, is what I always mean when I speak of the Essential Christian Beliefs or doctrines. Thank you for helping me clear this up so that no one else is confused about what is necessary to be a Christian believer.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill
Bill,
I don't mean to be a nag, But some of this is your opinion. You can't assume to
speak for the entire christian world.
Not every christian believes the way you do and in some ways not the same things
you do. Don't include everyone with yourself.
You can't dictate what everybody should believe or not believe.
With all due respect.
Hi Kraven,
These are not Essential Christian Beliefs that I made up or coined. These are taught in the Bible.
Which of the seven Essential Christian Beliefs that I have listed do you NOT agree with and believe should NOT define a Christian church?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
All I'm saying is you can't expect everybody to believe like you on all things.
We agree to disagree.
quote:All I'm saying is you can't expect everybody to believe like you on all things.
We agree to disagree.
There is no such thing in the Bible as the "Essential Doctrines".
Who made the list?
Who decides what is essential? WHo decides what is non-essential?
Is there some kind of flagsystem or highlighter used in the Bible that tells us "ooh...pay attention- this part is ESSENTIAL".
LOL! It's ridiculous, really.
But Kraven, if I may give you a piece of advice, BeeGee will never admit error, will always speak as though he has some kind of authority and "inside track" on God's Word.
Take everything he says with a grain of...no the whole salt shaker. He is not here for discussion, but to belittle others, and rant against the Catholic Church.
He states the Bible is literal, but refutes the Last Supper. Oh, and denies that adultery is a deal breaker.
Just thought I'd give you a heads up. He is on ignore for me, but happened to see your reply...
When I was in college, the fundies had only four essential tenets. they were nonsense.
now they have seven. It's nonsense on stilts.
When you come to the inevitable realization that religion is man-made, all the contradictions and vagueries come clear.
It's all nonsense that we invented. It's all tosh and fluff.
The vague verses of the chosen fairy tale are no help whatever. They are as human made as the context and matrix in which they are submitted.
Still, y'all carry on. Exhaust yourselves with meaningless arguments and stay out of the way of human progress, OK?
nsns
now they have seven. It's nonsense on stilts.
When you come to the inevitable realization that religion is man-made, all the contradictions and vagueries come clear.
It's all nonsense that we invented. It's all tosh and fluff.
The vague verses of the chosen fairy tale are no help whatever. They are as human made as the context and matrix in which they are submitted.
Still, y'all carry on. Exhaust yourselves with meaningless arguments and stay out of the way of human progress, OK?
nsns
quote:Originally posted by Kraven:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by Kraven:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by themax:
Well Bill, all I can add is that I really, off the top of my head, (can't) think of an "non-essential" Christian doctrine.
Hi Max,
There are Essential Christian Beliefs that, if any church teaches anything different, it is not a Christian church. These are the Christian Doctrines which directly affect and determine our salvation.
What are those Essential Christian Beliefs?
1. The Deity of Jesus Christ --- God incarnate -- fully a man; yet, fully God.
2. The Trinity --- God eternally existing; manifested in three persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
3. The Bible -- Is the inspired Written Word of God and is the sole authority for Christian faith, salvation, and our Christian life.
4. Salvation by Grace --- By grace you are saved, through faith in Jesus Christ.
5. The Resurrection of Christ --- He rose from the dead, that we may also be resurrected.
6. The Gospel --- The birth, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ according to Scripture.
7. Heaven and Hell -- Both are real places and are the only two eternal destinations available to all mankind.
And, there are what we call Non-Essentional Christian Beliefs. Does this mean that these teachings and doctrines are not important to our Christian faith? No. It only means that these Non-Essential doctrines do not affect our salvation and we can agree to agree or disagree on them. These include such teachings as the End Times, baptism, method and timing of baptism, young earth versus old earth, "once saved, always saved" -- and, they would include such teachings as Calvinism and Arminianism. None of these affect our salvation -- but, some can sure play havoc with our sense of eternal security in Christ.
This, Max, is what I always mean when I speak of the Essential Christian Beliefs or doctrines. Thank you for helping me clear this up so that no one else is confused about what is necessary to be a Christian believer.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill
Bill,
I don't mean to be a nag, But some of this is your opinion. You can't assume to
speak for the entire christian world.
Not every christian believes the way you do and in some ways not the same things
you do. Don't include everyone with yourself.
You can't dictate what everybody should believe or not believe.
With all due respect.
Hi Kraven,
These are not Essential Christian Beliefs that I made up or coined. These are taught in the Bible.
Which of the seven Essential Christian Beliefs that I have listed do you NOT agree with and believe should NOT define a Christian church?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
All I'm saying is you can't expect everybody to believe like you on all things. We agree to disagree.
Hi Kraven,
On Non-Essential Christian doctrines, i.e., eschatology, baptism, etc. -- we can agree to disagree. We can compromise if need be to encourage unity among believers.
However, on these Essential Christian Beliefs; there can be NO compromise. This is why I ask you which of the seven do you find disagreeable? If you cannot tell me where we disagree -- are you sure we disagree?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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Does #4- Salvation through Grace mean "once saved always saved?"
Salvation from what, veep?
nsns
nsns
Salvation from hell.
Fo shizzle.
I do not subscribe to crazy mc'crazyson's twisted doctrines, but I do believe that Jesus was sent to show us the way to eternal life.
I don't think this life is all there is to it. I believe there is much, much more to come.
Fo shizzle.
I do not subscribe to crazy mc'crazyson's twisted doctrines, but I do believe that Jesus was sent to show us the way to eternal life.
I don't think this life is all there is to it. I believe there is much, much more to come.
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:
Does #4- Salvation through Grace mean "once saved always saved?"
Hi VP,
Then, what is God telling us in Ephesians 2:8-9 when we read, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Is this Scripture passage telling us that we are saved by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ -- or not?
Is this Scripture passage the truth -- or is it a lie?
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
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Bill, I agree with most of what you say but there are a few points that need a little clearer. But it will have to wait until another day.
Got to much to do today.
Got to much to do today.
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:
Fo shizzle.
Fo shizzle....I like that word.
quote:Originally posted by Not Shallow Not
It's all tosh and fluff.
You've just came up with 2 words to describe Bill Gray......tosh & fluff!!
quote:These include such teachings as the End Times, baptism, method and timing of baptism, young earth versus old earth, "once saved, always saved" -- and, they would include such teachings as Calvinism and Arminianism. None of these affect our salvation -- but, some can sure play havoc with our sense of eternal security in Christ.
I would say that they have everything to do with a mans salvation.
Both Calvinism and Arminianism are false doctrines of man.
They are not found in the Bible, if you can find them, as you are so fond of saying,
SHOW ME
quote:Originally posted by vplee123:
Salvation from hell.
Fo shizzle.
I do not subscribe to crazy mc'crazyson's twisted doctrines, ...
Wow, VP, this is a new tone for you. I like it.
quote:Originally posted by beternU:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by beternU:quote:Originally posted by Bill Gray:quote:Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Bet,
What is an atheistic doctrine?
Hi Deep,
And, I, too, have to wonder what has happened to our Hall Monitor Grammarian -- when he writes on his post:
"I and you and others on here feel free. . ."
Y'all come back now, ya heah?
Bill
Hey, Bill---there is nothing wrong with the construction, "I and you." It is more common to use "You and I," but the order of the pronouns is acceptablle either way. That usage that is most common is not necessarily the only correct usage. If you can find a creditable source for your critique, I will yield on the point, but I truly doubt that you can.
Hi Beter,
Show me ONE English Grammar book which approves the usage of "I and you." That is so wrong it smells up the whole house.
I wrote a paper on that a few years ago. Maybe I will post it for your edification.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill
No, Bill. YOU are the one who claimed my usage was wrong. It is not up to me to defend it; it is up to you to prove your assertion. That is the way it works, Bill. Now how about serving up that learned paper you claim to have written on the subject? I will be happy to acknowledge error if you will show me where the error lies and show me from a qualified source. Unlike certain others on this forum, I am willing to acknowledge that I am wrong when I am shown to be wrong. Really, I am.
I wasn't going to weigh in on this one, because your grammatical policing of the forums is often annoying. But I just re-read the original post, and your use of "I and you and others" is actually quite effective. Nice turn of phrase, makes the point more demonstrative, and certainly grammatically correct.