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Either Jesus is true and all other religions are false, or other religions are true and Jesus is false. There are no other options. I choose to follow the risen Lord Jesus.


It is not either or. Jesus is not true nor are other religions.

You cannot name a single historical document that corroborates even one event concerning Jesus that is described in the Gospels.

Where can we find the gynecological report indicating that Mary was a virgin? Where can we find the eye witness account of God impregnating Mary?
Last edited by davidnmiles
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Originally posted by Do you know me...really?:
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Originally posted by davidnmiles:
It is not either or. Jesus is not true nor are other religions.

You cannot name a single historical document that corroborates even one event concerning Jesus that is described in the Gospels.


May God have mercy on your soul. I pray that God will turn your heart towards him so you can see the light.


That is a very convincing argument for the veracity of the Jesus story.

By the way, the superstitious have been begging their invisible friend to "turn my heart towards him" for years. As with everything else attributed to God's power, the requests have been a dismal failure. God is powerless.
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Originally posted by 8I:


You really don't know me, cause if you did, you'd know that supernatural judgmental forces are useless against me.

Except when I'm not wearing my magnetar medallion, which by the way generates a geomagnetic field quadrillions of times more powerful than anything here on earth.

Does ten gigateslas mean anything to you?

Let me tell you what it means:

It means that I do the judging in this quadrant of the universe.

So watch your step around here, or you could find yourself in a mining camp in the Hausdorffian dimension.

Got that?


Where can I get one of these magnetar medallions? I'm just wanting to be the judge in my household. You can have the rest of the quadrant.
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Originally posted by Do you know me...really?:

Do you think that you scare me? NO! You will learn quick that threats of any sorts, joking or not, will not scare me. I am an independent woman and I would love for you come up against me again...you have another thing coming. All that scares me is the way that you think that you are the one judging everyone on this side of the universe.
May God have mercy on your soul. And even if you dont believe, the truth of the fact is that you will still be judged by God the Father.

I pray that one day you will wake up and one day realize all of the non-sense that you talk.


May God have mercy on your sense of humor. Roll Eyes
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Originally posted by Do you know me...really?:
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Originally posted by 8I:
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Originally posted by Do you know me...really?:
QUOTE]
i'm assuming you're a christian, right?
/QUOTE]

Did you really have to ask? YES! And so proud of it.


Do, I'm curious as to why you chose Christianity over many other religions?




You ask me:
Why should anyone trust in Christianity over anything else? It is because there are absolute truths, because only in Christianity are there accurately fulfilled prophecies of a coming Messiah. Only in Christianity do we have the extremely accurate transmission of the eyewitness documents (gospels), so we can trust what was originally written. Only in Christianity do we have the person of Christ who claimed to be God, performed many miracles to prove His claim of divinity, who died and rose from the dead, and who said that He alone was the way the truth and the life (John 14:6). All this adds to the legitimacy and credibility of Christianity above all other religions -- all based on the person of Jesus. It follows that if it is all true about what Jesus said and did, then all other religions are false because Jesus said that He alone was the way, the truth, and the life, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him (John 14:6). It could not be that Jesus is the only way and truth, and other religions also be the truth.

Either Jesus is true and all other religions are false, or other religions are true and Jesus is false. There are no other options. I choose to follow the risen Lord Jesus.


*Raises white flag*


Stop it! Stop it! I can't laugh any more... I hurt.

DF

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Originally posted by davidnmiles:
By the way, the superstitious have been begging their invisible friend to "turn my heart towards him" for years. As with everything else attributed to God's power, the requests have been a dismal failure. God is powerless.



Ask Jesus with a contrite and sincere heart to show you the way to clean yourself up and ask Him with all your heart to walk with you and show you how to overcome the flesh and the world, so that your life can be made full in the eyes of God. Tell Jesus you want to live and to live the way God intended us to live when He created us in His image. By accepting Jesus and giving ones life to Jesus doesn't mean that you're life is over and it's going to be boring and you're going to have to go to church all the time. If you call on Jesus and put your trust in Him and learn to listen to Him, your life will be anything but boring. Your choice: Be a slave of a world that promises death or be a slave of Jesus Christ who can give you everlasting eternal life, true life, true joy, true happiness and most of all true LOVE.
The God of the Bible loves people of all persuasions, all races and all lifestyles, because, He is love. In fact, the Bible tells us that God loves us so much that even though He doesn't approve of our conduct at times, He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to suffer and die for our sins. In fact, the Bible tells us that we are not really responsible for the fact that we have a sinful nature. We inherited it from our grandfather, Adam. Because of that one man's sin, sin entered the world and we all became sinners.

In fact, God loves all sinners, (the proud, the selfish, the covetous, the mean, the hateful, and the immoral) so much that He made it possible for each of us to be forgiven our sins and have a meaningful relationship with Him. The only thing that prevents us from this relationship is not accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. In fact, Jesus Christ is the light that lights every man that comes into the world, he came into this world because he loved us not because he hates us. He said, "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." He came, "to seek and to save that which was lost."

Since God is a loving God, and since the wages of sin is death, disappointment, disillusionment and heartache, God has warned us about lifestyles that, in time, will cause us to be disappointed and disillusioned. In fact, he says there is a way that seems right to men, but the end of that way is a way of death. Being a loving God, it is necessary that He warn us. So God has made it very clear that unfulfilling conduct is defined in the Bible in such a way that we can be warned and turn away from it.
God, because He loves you, gives you this information before it is too late to change your life. In addition, He has made it possible for you to change. When you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, He enables you to have victory over habits and lifestyles that are unfulfilling. The apostle Paul said, he could do all things through Christ Jesus and when one accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior old things pass away and all things become new.
A loving God and Savior warns mankind of unfulfilling lifestyles and died that they might have a fulfilled life and live a lifestyle that will be fulfilling for time and eternity. All you need to do is call out to him for mercy, asking him to be your savior and your sins will be forgiven. You will have the power to change your lifestyle.

A loving God doesn't save you to continue living an unfulfilling lifestyle but he saves you out of, or from, your sins. *14 Your lifestyle will then conform to the conduct God has said will bring peace, joy, happiness, and a glorious anticipation of eternity.
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Ask Jesus with a contrite and sincere heart to show you the way to clean yourself up and ask Him with all your heart to walk with you and show you how to overcome the flesh and the world, so that your life can be made full in the eyes of God.


Sorry, if I am to beg someone to walk with me, it will be a person who can in some way add a positive value to my life. I have seen no evidence that Jesus can do this.
From all the evidence of God's ineptitude, it would seem that God has no eyes.

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Tell Jesus you want to live and to live the way God intended us to live when He created us in His image.


I don't communicate with imaginary characters. You just insulted me. I am not created in the image of a cruel, vindictive, irrational and capricious being.

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By accepting Jesus and giving ones life to Jesus doesn't mean that you're life is over and it's going to be boring and you're going to have to go to church all the time. If you call on Jesus and put your trust in Him and learn to listen to Him, your life will be anything but boring.

Should I subscribe to a ridiculous superstitions, my life would be as good as over.
Jesus was a liar. Why on earth would I put my trust in him. He never said anything worth listening to. Boring is listening to Jesus' followers.

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Your choice: Be a slave of a world that promises death or be a slave of Jesus Christ who can give you everlasting eternal life, true life, true joy, true happiness and most of all true LOVE.

Other than from a silly book written by ignorant, irrational people of yore, on what do you base this absurd proclamation of everlasting life?
When Jesus returns at the end of the Great Tribulation, the dead and living in Christ will be called up to be with him in the clouds. (First Resurrection)

Those who are left on Earth are called the Nations and will be non-believers who are not born again and do not have the Spirit of God. They will be divided into the Sheep and the Goats on the Day of the Lord.

The Dead who did not take part in this First Resurrection (ie unbelievers) will be resurrected at the end of the Millennium to be judged at the Great White Throne. Those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life will die a second death in the Lake of Fire. Death itself will also be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Satan gets thrown into the Lake of fire. The antichrist and the false prophet gets thrown into the Lake of fire.

The believers who took part in the first resurrection descend from heaven as the Bride of Christ to become the New Jerusalem.

Those who are not condemned at the Great White Throne become the Nations.
NON BELIEVERS WHO ARE ALIVE AT THE COMING OF THE LORD WILL BE JUDGED ON THE DAY OF THE LORD

NON BELIEVERS WHO HAVE DIED BEFORE CHRIST RETURNS WILL BE RAISED FROM HADES AFTER THE MILLENNIUM TO BE JUDGED AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE


Christ will Redeem the Church just before his Second Coming - the Day of the Lord.

Non Believers (The Nations) who are alive when Christ comes with the armies of heaven on the Day of the Lord will be divided into two groups (The Sheep - who were kind to God's people and The Goats - who persecuted God's people). The Goats will be sent to everlasting punishment and the Sheep will received the reward prepared for them since the creation of the world - eternal life as the Nations on Earth during the Millennium and in Eternity.

The Believers will be with Christ in Heaven during the Millennium and will reign over the Nations on the Earth.

The Dead Outside of Christ will not be Judged until the end of the Millennium at the Great White Throne.

After the Millennium, the believers descend from Heaven as the Bride of Christ to be the New Jerusalem on the New Earth surrounded by the New Nations. The Nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.

In the New Jerusalem, there will be the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stands the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.
At the End of the Millennium, Christ will hand the kingdom back over to the Father. The Millennium is therefore the only way that this prophesy can be fulfilled if Christ is to reign at his coming and the believers are to reign with him. The Millennium is the period for which the Believers are differentially rewarded according to what they have done whilst in the body. People who preach amillennialism usually don't preach about the reward of believers and Christ handing things back over to the father once the devil has been thrown into the lake of fire.

2Peter 3:8 says that a thousand years are like a day to the Lord. The old testament has many types and patterns that are seen in the New Testament. God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th. We are now 6000 years approximately since Adam. It may be that Christ will reign in the Seventh millennium, after all, the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath (Matt 12:8 Mark 2:28 Luke 6:5)
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Originally posted by Do you know me...really?:
davidnmiles...
I truly feel sorry for you.


Why? Because I don't subscribe to your belief system?

That is the epitome of naivete and arrogance.
I find it is the prevalent attitude dominating the Christian mind.

It is a shame that you are unable to respond with reason to an issue but must resort to triteness, e.g., I truly feel sorry for you.

Of course, you don't feel sory for me. You just cannot stand the fact that we all don't share your faith. If anything, you hate me--with the same Christian hate that has caused murder and mayhem for 2000 years.
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Originally posted by davidnmiles:
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Originally posted by Do you know me...really?:
davidnmiles...
I truly feel sorry for you.


Why? Because I don't subscribe to your belief system?


That is the epitome of naivete and arrogance.
I find it is the prevalent attitude dominating the Christian mind.

It is a shame that you are unable to respond with reason to an issue but must resort to triteness, e.g., I truly feel sorry for you.

Of course, you don't feel sory for me. You just cannot stand the fact that we all don't share your faith. If anything, you hate me--with the same Christian hate that has caused murder and mayhem for 2000 years.


David,
Answer one question if you will. Are you truly happy?
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Originally posted by davidnmiles:
Why? Because I don't subscribe to you belief system?

That is the epitome of naivete and arrogance.
I find it is the prevalent attitude dominating the Christian mind.

Of course, you don't feel sory for me. You just cannot stand the fact that we all don't share your faith. If anything, you hate me.
It is a shame that you are unable to respond with reason to an issue but must resort to triteness, e.g., I truly feel sorry for you.



No, I am not going to apoligize to you because I said I feel sorry for you. I do truly feel sorry for you, not because you dont 'agree with my religion' but because you have never experienced the peace that passes all understanding. And no...I do not hate you, I pity you.
Unfortunately for you, because you choose not to believe in Christ there is still a day of judgement...even for you.
What is the difference between Heaven and Hell?

There are many differences between heaven and hell. The book of Revelation, the last book of the Bible, paints a beautiful picture of heaven as having streets of pure gold, gates of pearl, walls decorated with every manner of precious gemstones. Revelation 21:18-21 says, “The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.”

Nothing impure ever will be in heaven, and the residents shall live eternally in the presence of God and Jesus Christ. It is a place of joy, peace, and love. Jesus Himself has prepared a wonderful place for us. In John 14:1-4, Jesus says, “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." This is the place the righteous shall go for eternity (John 5:24).

Hell, on the other hand, is described as a lake of fire (Revelations 20:15), the second death (Revelations 21:8), a place where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Luke 13:28), the home of the wicked (Psalm 9:17) and a place of torment (Revelations 20:10). Hell is where those who reject the great sacrifice of Jesus will spend eternity.

Are you going to heaven or hell? Please consider the differences and decide to spend eternity in heaven. Discover God’s salvation message and accept His free gift.
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Are you going to heaven or hell? Please consider the differences and decide to spend eternity in heaven. Discover God’s salvation message and accept His free gift.


I have questioned the existence of God and concluded early in life that he does not exist. Hence, I am not the least bit concerned with his alleged "free gift."

Does this mean that I will be spending eternity in hell?

Who will be sending me to hell?
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Originally posted by davidnmiles:
Who will be doing the judging and what will be the probable outcome of this judgement?




THE JUDGEMENT
Reading: Matthew 25

There is a clear principle in scripture that God must be obeyed. When King David was established on his throne, he decided to bring the Ark of God from Kirjath-jearim, where it had been for some time, to his capital city, Jerusalem. A new cart was made, to be pulled by oxen. When all was ready, the priests of God walked beside the ark as it went on its way. But at one point, the oxen stumbled, and a man named Uzzah put out his hand to hold the ark and steady it. But we then read what happened as a result:

"God smote him there for his error; and there he died" (2 Samuel 6: 7)

Why was the punishment so severe, when all that Uzzah had done was steady the Ark of God? God had said quite plainly as recorded in the book of Numbers that the ark must be always carried by the priests on their shoulders. So either Uzzah did not know God's commandment, or he choose to disobey it. In either case, he was guilty before God. This account teaches us that God is holy and great, He is our Creator and rightly demands obedience from those who serve Him.

Men who despise God's love
Jesus told a parable about a king who made a marriage feast for his son. When the feast was ready he sent his servants to call the guests; but those guests refused to go! They preferred to get on with their own everyday lives rather than to obey the king's summons to the wedding. The king was angry, and sent his servants to destroy the men who had despised his invitation (Matthew 22:1:14).

God is a great King. If He has graciously invited a man or woman to share in the joys of His kingdom on earth, and that person deliberately says in effect, "I do not want what God is offering me, and I will not obey Him" - then there will come a time of judgement, and that person will be condemned. We note that the king in the parable also told his servants to go out and bring to the wedding feast any they could find. Many came, but not all were acceptable to the king. Thus in Matt 22:14 we read Jesus states that "many are called but few are chosen." So we see Jesus teaching that a selection process takes place, many are invited to have a place in the kingdom of God, but for many they will be found to be unacceptable, not having bothered to make the effort to prepare themselves. As we read in Galatians 6:7 "God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Resurrection and judgement
The Bible teaches us that there will be a day of judgement. Jesus will return and after the resurrection judge all who have had opportunity to respond to the gospel message. God is loving; but He is also just and upright. As it says in Exodus 34: 7, "(God) will by no means clear the guilty". He could not and will not, give eternal life to men and women who have despised His love, and who, knowing that Jesus had died for them, made no effort to serve and obey Him. So Paul tells us:

"We shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ" (Romans 14:10)

"We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad" (2 Corinthians 5:10)

There must be a time of reckoning
Jesus once said to his followers: "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am" (John 13: 13). In New Testament times, if a man bought a slave, he would own that slave totally. The slave could no longer please himself; he had one task in life - to serve and please his master. Now Jesus bought us with his own blood, when he gave his life on the cross as a sacrifice for sin. Thus Paul tells us:

"Ye are not your own. For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (1 Corinthians 6: 19, 20)

This means that we are responsible to the Lord Jesus for the way we live our lives. When he comes again he will reward the faithful, and punish those who have despised his ways.

Truth in a parable
To teach his followers about their responsibilities to him, Jesus told a parable which you can find in Matthew 25: 14-30. Please read it now for yourself and note verse 21, which tells of the reward of the faithful servant:

"Thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy Lord."

The man who had not obeyed could expect no such reward. His punishment was severe. Note verse 30: "Cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

The righteous judge
When Jesus comes again, he will raise the dead, and gather them, along with those of his followers who are living at that time, together. There will then be a time of judgement. Following the judgement, those who have been accepted will be granted the gift of eternal life, and Jesus will say to them:

"Come, ye blessed of my father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Matthew 25: 34)

Jesus himself will be the judge (see John 5: 28-34), and will judge with the wisdom that God has given him. We read in Isaiah:

"He shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: but with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth" (Isaiah 11: 3-4)

Thus we can trust that Jesus will judge righteously and justly. Men can only judge by what they see and hear: but the Lord Jesus will know what is in the hearts of men, all their motives and thoughts and he will make no mistakes in his judgement. He will judge us by the word of God.

Who will be at the Judgement Seat?
There will be those who have heard, but not accepted the gospel message and also those who having heard God's gracious offer of life, and knew they should submitted to it, have been baptised. All of them will be gathered to the Judgement Seat of Christ to be judged. But they will not be the only ones. There will also be men and women who lived before the times of Jesus; who had accepted the covenants of promise made by God to Abraham and those who lived under the law given Moses. Everyone will be called before Christ's judgement seat to account for what they have done about the gospel message, the "pearl of great price". Both those who have been unfaithful and those who have tried to follow the example of Jesus' perfect life, will be at the Judgement Seat . Hebrews 10: 26-27 warns us:

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

Indeed Jesus himself warns us: "Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33).

However those who have never known about the true God, and His plan of redemption, will not be raised to judgement. We read of such men:

"He shall go the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light. Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish." Psalm 49:19, 20

Thus by now you will see that the idea of going to heaven when we die, simply does not fit in with these Bible truths.

Joy for those who are accepted
Those who are accepted at the judgement will be given eternal life. Their bodies will never again feel pain, or tiredness, or any human weakness, their minds will never again be tempted to commit sin. It will be a time of great rejoicing for the faithful, a time of such joy that we can barely imagine it now. The Bible describes the celebration as being like a wedding feast, and we read in Revelation 19: 9 "Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb."

When Jesus was with his disciples, sharing his last meal with them before his death, [we know it as "the last supper"], he said to them:

"I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Luke 22: 29-30)

When the Kingdom comes, the twelve apostles are to rule over Israel, which will then be the most important nation on earth. Every disciple accepted by Jesus will share in the work of ruling the world. So we read in Revelation 5: 9, 10 that the faithful saints sung a song, saying:

"Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation: and hast make us unto our God kings and priest: and we shall reign on the earth."

They will have the privilege and reward of helping Jesus restore the earth to what God intended it to be from the beginning, bringing about a time of peace and righteousness in the earth. [For more detail about the kingdom you may like to read: Isaiah 11:1-9; Ch 35; 65:17-25; Rev 21:3-4. See also the studies that cover this subject in greater detail.]

What will happen to those who are rejected?
We have seen that those who come before the Judgement Seat of Christ will be divided into two classes. Christ will accept some, and reject others. He will give eternal life to those he accepts. But what will happen to those who are found unworthy? What will their punishment be? We do not know all the details, but some things are quite certain. First, they will see how foolish they have been; they will realise what wonderful blessings they have thrown away, and this will cause them great agony of mind. Jesus said:

"There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the Kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." (Luke 13: 28)

Finally, they will be completely destroyed. Jesus likened the judgement to a harvest where the good corn is separated from the useless weeds. The corn is carefully preserved, but the weeds are destroyed in the farmer's bonfire (Matthew 13: 36-43). Paul taught the same thing very plainly:

"The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" (2 Thessalonians 1: 7-9)

Love or fear?
There are some passages in the Bible which seem to warn us not to be too confident about our position at the judgement; whereas other scriptures seem to encourage us to be full of confidence. There is no real contradiction. We can have no confidence in ourselves - but we can have total confidence in the saving power of God. For, as we read:

"He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?" Romans 8: 32

Though there may be an element of fear in us about judgement and the great power of our Creator. As we learn more about God, His purpose with the earth and His character, we shall gradually learn to love Him and trust Him completely. And so John says:

"Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear" (1 John 4: 17, 18)
"Do you know me...really" quotes a mythological work to prove to me that because of my non-belief God will condemn me on judgment day to a lake of fire for all eternity. This really means, “Because you don’t share my beliefs, you deserve to suffer.” I question how a merciful God could subject me to the cruelest punishment ever conceived for nothing more serious than questioning and thinking rather than embracing blind faith.

"Do you know" will claim that entering the lake is “my choice.” While non-belief is my choice, I certainly will not choose to jump into a fiery lake. If I do enter the lake, it will only be because God arranges for my entrance.

Before judgment day I could profess, “I believe.” But if God is omniscient, he will know that I am not sincere, and that I require evidence before I accept an idea as truth. Many have prayed for “God to open my eyes and heart to Him.” This has not happened. Even with requests for divine illumination, I still do not have the capacity to believe in God. Am I to understand that God will punish a person for failure to believe even if the person is unable to believe?

A rational deity should welcome my search for the truth using my “God-given” mind. Furthermore, a rational deity will place a higher value on intellectual integrity than on accepting a notion without evidence solely to avoid punishment. Those not committed to the truth will by nature be untrustworthy and unworthy of Heaven.

Could it be that hell is really the here on earth torment of a human mind that is shackled by superstition?
How did Jesus describe hell?

Jesus Christ spoke more on hell than any other subject.
Just look at how Jesus described hell:


WHAT JESUS CHRIST SAYS ABOUT HELL!

"fire"
Matt 7:19, 13:40, 25:41

"everlasting fire"
Matt 18:8, 25:41

"eternal ****ation"
Mark 3:29

"hell fire"
Matt 5:22, 18:9, Mark 9:47

"****ation"
Matt 23:14, Mark 12:40, Luke 20:47

"****ation of hell"
Matt 23:33

"resurrection of ****ation"
John 5:29

"furnace of fire"
Matt 13:42, 50

"the fire that never shall be quenched"
Mark 9:43, 45

"the fire is not quenched"
Mark 9:44, 46, 48

"Where their worm dieth not"
Mark 9:44, 46, 48

"wailing and gnashing of teeth"
Matt 13:42, 50

"weeping and gnashing of teeth"
Matt 8:12, 22:13, 25:30

"torments"
Luke 16:23

"tormented in this flame"
Luke 16:24

"place of torment"
Luke 16:28

"outer darkness"
Matt 8:12, 22:13

"everlasting punishment"
Matt 25:46
“And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments. . .” Luke 16:23

What you're about to read is hard to believe. . .

We're going to examine the place the Bible calls hell. We'll present documented evidence for a place called hell. Don't take what you're going to read lightly. If what you read is true — YOU COULD BE IN SERIOUS DANGER!

What you're about to read is hard to believe. . .

We're going to examine the place the Bible calls hell. We'll present documented evidence for a place called hell. Don't take what you're going to read lightly. If what you read is true — YOU COULD BE IN SERIOUS DANGER!

Several years ago a book was published, entitled Beyond Death's Door by Dr. Maurice Rawlings. Dr. Rawlings, a specialist in Internal Medicine and Cardiovascular Disease, resuscitated many people who had been clinically dead. Dr. Rawlings, a devout atheist, "considered all religion "hocus-pocus" and death nothing more than a painless extinction". But something happened in 1977 that brought a dramatic change in the life of Dr. Rawlings! He was resuscitating a man, terrified and screaming — descending down into the flames of hell:
"Each time he regained heartbeat and respiration, the patient screamed, "I am in hell!" He was terrified and pleaded with me to help him. I was scared to death. . . Then I noticed a genuinely alarmed look on his face. He had a terrified look worse than the expression seen in death! This patient had a grotesque grimace expressing sheer horror! His pupils were dilated, and he was perspiring and trembling — he looked as if his hair was "on end."
Then still another strange thing happened. He said,"Don't you understand? I am in hell. . . Don't let me go back to hell!" . . .the man was serious, and it finally occurred to me that he was indeed in trouble. He was in a panic like I had never seen before."
(Maurice Rawlings, Beyond Death's Door,(Thomas Nelson Inc., 1979) p. 3).
Dr. Rawlings said, no one, who could have heard his screams and saw the look of terror on his face could doubt for a single minute that he was actually in a place called hell!

The Bible continually warns of a place called hell. There are over 162 references in the New Testament alone which warns of hell. And over 70 of these references were uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ!

In Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell:

22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:22-28)
HELL IS A PLACE OF FIRE

The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."


THE BIBLE GIVES THE LOCATION OF HELL

When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He descended into hell. In Acts 2, Peter is speaking, verse 31, " . . . seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in HELL"

When Jesus Christ died His soul went into hell.

And in Matthew 12:40, Jesus Christ says:

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly: so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH. "
The Bible is clear — Hell is inside the earth!

Ephesians 4:9, says of Jesus: "Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH."

YES! THERE IS A PLACE CALLED HELL!

In Numbers 16, the Bible gives the account of people falling into hell alive!

"And THE EARTH OPENED HER MOUTH, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive INTO THE PIT, and the EARTH CLOSED UPON THEM:" Numbers 16:32-33

And it will happen TO YOU if you die without the Lord Jesus Christ!

Even though the world tries to extinguish the cries and reality of hell — the truth of hell echoes throughout our world. We desperately pretend to cover our ears and igonore the "screams, the weeping, the wailing, the gnashing of teeth" but it is there. . . And we know it. We refuse to accept such a place exist. But it is there. And we know it. Nothing we can do, nothing we can say, can erase the horror of hell from our minds.

It is there. And we know it.

National Geographic magazine truthfully titled their story on Volcanoes "Going To Hell". When PBS did a series on The Savage Earth, one episode was titled "Hell's Crust: Our Everchanging Planet". Everything we know. Everything we observe. Echoes the truth of a place called hell.

It is there. And we know it.

Revelation 14:10 says, " . . . and he shall be tormented with fire and BRIMSTONE . . ." And Job 18 describes the " . . . PLACE of him that knoweth not God" (vs 21), in verse 15 as, " . . . BRIMSTONE shall be scattered upon his habitation." Do you know what brimstone is? It's sulfur. And do you know where sulfur or brimstone is found? INSIDE THIS EARTH! According to the book Volcanoes by Pierre Kohler (p. 43), when Mt. St Helens erupted in 1980 — 150,000 tons of sulfurous gas was ejected! Job is the oldest book in the Bible, written over 3,000 years ago, and yet Job knew what science wouldn't know for years — inside this earth is BRIMSTONE!

Nature magazine recently discovered (July 2002) what the Bible knew over 3,000 years ago. Inside this earth is "fire and brimstone":

HELL IS A PLACE OF TORMENT
Jesus says of the man in Luke 16:


23 "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in TORMENTS. . . "
24 ". . . for I am TORMENTED in this FLAME."
28 ". . .PLACE OF TORMENT."
It is humanly impossible to comprehend the Bible description of hell. Nothing on earth can compare with it. No nightmare could produce a terror to match that of hell. No horror movie could describe it’s fright. No crime scene with all it’s blood and gore could begin to match it’s horror.


It will be beyond anything humanly imaginable!
The Bible warns in Psalm 9:17, you will not only be in hell — you will BE TURNED INTO HELL! You will literally BE HELL!

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Psalm 9:17
YOU will see HELL. . .
YOU will smell HELL. . .
YOU will breathe HELL. . .
YOU will hear HELL. . .
YOU will feel HELL. . .
YOU WILL BE HELL. . .


The Bible describes it as weeping (Matt 8:12), wailing (Matt 13:42), gnashing of teeth (Matt 13:50), darkness (Matt 25:30), flames (Luke 16:24), burning (Isa 33:14), torments (Luke 16:23), everlasting punishment! Jesus Christ says in Matthew 25:41, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE, prepared for the devil and his angels."

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."


HELL IS FOREVER!

All who enter hell — abandon all hope!

The horror of hell — for even one second is unbearable — but FOREVER!

Jesus says in Matthew 25:41: ". . . Depart from me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING fire, . . ."

Rev. 14:11: "The smoke of their TORMENT ascendeth up for EVER AND EVER: and they have NO REST DAY NOR NIGHT."
Just look how the Bible warns of the eternity and permance of hell!


everlasting fire — Matthew18:8, 25:41
everlasting punishment — Matthew 25:46
everlasting chains — Jude 1:6
eternal ****ation — Mark 3:29
eternal judgment — Hebrews 6:2
eternal fire — Jude 1:7
unquenchable fire — Matthew 3:12
the fire that never shall be quenched — Mark 9:43, 44, 45, 46, 48
fire unquenchable — Luke 3:17
mist of darkness is reserved for ever — 2 Peter 2:17
the blackness of darkness for ever — Jude 1:13
My friend, I have searched my Bible, from cover to cover. . . I have studied every occurrence of hell in my Bible — and I can not find one verse, not one word of HOPE for someone in hell! NOT ONE WORD! The rich man in hell in Luke 16 never even asks to get out — He knew there was no way out!


OH MY FRIEND – HELL IS FOREVER AND EVER!
What could possibly be worth eternity in hell? No wonder Jesus Christ warned so much about hell! No wonder Jesus said in Mark 8:36, "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and LOSE HIS OWN SOUL?"



Jesus Christ took hell very serious. . .

Jesus Christ says in Mark 9:43-47,


43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Jesus Christ took hell so serious — He could say without the slightest hesitation — to remove your eye, cut off your hand or foot, if that would keep you out of hell!

If hell is not real — Jesus Christ was the most deceived man that ever lived!

I’ll challenge anyone to read the words of Jesus Christ and tell me they are the words of a deceived man!

Jesus Christ knew exactly what He was talking about!

WHAT IF JESUS IS RIGHT?

Hebrews 9:27 says, "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGEMENT:"


it is appointed unto man once to die . . .
and one day — YOU will die . . .


And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments . . .


As you leave your body — you realize something is happening. You hear a sound. . . getting louder and louder. . . screaming . . .weeping. . . wailing. Terror and fear beyond anything you could imagine overtakes you. "This can’t be happening!" you scream. Your nostrils are filling with the awful stench of burning souls. Your face ignites from the heat. Flames are now blazing from your eyes, nostrils, ears, mouth — every opening in your body, flames are roaring out. Your body is sizzling and crackling from the flames.

Your body is now madly thrashing and convulsing from the horrible pain. "Why don’t I die?", you scream. You begin weeping and gnashing your teeth with the millions. "When will this pain stop?" But you know it will never stop. . .

The darkness is so terrifying, it begins engulfing you. You feel something moving in the darkness. . . something horrible is happening. "No! No! This can’t be happening" you scream — as your worm is emerging.

You begin cursing the day you were born. You scream — "Oh God, why didn’t you warn me?"— but you remember the preacher pleading with you to receive Jesus Christ. You remember reading that gospel tract. You cry — "God don’t you care?" — but you remember John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,. . ." "God is a God of love — He won't allow this", you cry — but you remember John 3:36, ". . . he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."


And you soon realize, that Jesus Christ was right!

There is a place called hell.

BUT FRIEND I HAVE GOOD NEWS!


God does NOT want you in hell

Hell was not made for man. Matthew 25:41 says, hell was, ". . . prepared for the devil and his angels:"

Because God is a GOD OF LOVE, and He LOVED YOU so much, He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to this earth to die a cruel death on a cross to pay the price a HOLY GOD demands for your sins.

Romans 5:8 says, "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

God does not send someone to hell. You choose hell when you reject Jesus Christ. When you refuse God's love gift of eternal life in Jesus Christ. . .


YOU CHOOSE HELL!

What could possibly be worth eternity in hell?

No wonder Jesus Christ said in Mark 8:36:
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"Mark 8:36:
God has something far better than words can describe for those who love Him. I Corinthians 2:9 says:

". . . Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him."I Corinthians 2:9
Friend, there is a place called hell! And, if you continually refuse God's gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ — just as sure as you live and breathe — ONE DAY YOU WILL WAKE UP IN HELL!

Don't wait until you die to find out the truth about Hell! Tomorrow may be too late! Proverbs 27:1 says, "Boast not thyself of tomorrow: for thou KNOWEST NOT what a day may bring forth."

Three people die every second, 180 every minute, since you started reading this — 2000 more people have gone into eternity! An automobile accident. . . A heart attack. . , A stroke. . .One thing is CERTAIN — you will DIE — today. . . tomorrow . . . a week. . . a month . . . a year. . . 5 years. . . 10 years. . . 20 years. . . 50 years — ONE THING IS CERTAIN —" . . .it is appointed unto man once TO DIE . . ."



DON'T BE CAUGHT DEAD WITHOUT JESUS!

You may have made some terrible mistakes in your life. There may be some things in your life you would give anything to be able to change. But friend, I assure you — if you die without Jesus Christ — it'll be the worst mistake you could possibly make!

Has there ever come a time and a place in your life, when you received Jesus Christ as your personal Savior?


If not, you are on the way to hell!

Don't let anyone convince you that when you die it will be all over! The Bible says in Hebrews 9:27:
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGMENT." Hebrews 9:27
Revelation 20:15 says:
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE." Revelation 20:15
If you've never received Jesus Christ as your Savior, bow your head this minute and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to save you.Don't put it off another second!



NOTHING'S WORTH TAKING THE CHANCE!


It's simple to be saved ...


Realize you are a sinner.


"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" Romans 3:10

"... for there is no difference. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23


Realize you CAN NOT save yourself.

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; ..." Isaiah 64:6

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, ..." Titus 3:5


Realize that Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for your sins.

"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, ..." 1 Peter 2:24

"... Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," Revelation 1:5


Simply by faith receive Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12

" ...Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."" Acts 16:30,31

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16



WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE SAVED?

Pray this prayer, and mean it with all your heart.

Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and unless you save me I am lost forever. I thank you for dying for me at Calvary. I come to you now, Lord the best way I know how, and ask you to save me. I now receive you as my Savior. In Jesus Christ Name, Amen.


"How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation;"
Hebrews 2:3

AND YOU ARE THERE — FOREVER!
quote:
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
--Richard Dawkins, "The God Delusion".

DF
quote:
Originally posted by Do you know me...really?:
The righteous judge
When Jesus comes again, he will raise the dead, and gather them, along with those of his followers who are living at that time, together. There will then be a time of judgement. Following the judgement, those who have been accepted will be granted the gift of eternal life, and Jesus will say to them:




quote:
Originally posted by Do you know me...really?:Several years ago a book was published, entitled Beyond Death's Door by Dr. Maurice Rawlings. Dr. Rawlings, a specialist in Internal Medicine and Cardiovascular Disease, resuscitated many people who had been clinically dead. Dr. Rawlings, a devout atheist, "considered all religion "hocus-pocus" and death nothing more than a painless extinction". But something happened in 1977 that brought a dramatic change in the life of Dr. Rawlings! He was resuscitating a man, terrified and screaming — descending down into the flames of hell:
"Each time he regained heartbeat and respiration, the patient screamed, "I am in hell!" He was terrified and pleaded with me to help him. I was scared to death. . . Then I noticed a genuinely alarmed look on his face. He had a terrified look worse than the expression seen in death! This patient had a grotesque grimace expressing sheer horror! His pupils were dilated, and he was perspiring and trembling — he looked as if his hair was "on end."
Then still another strange thing happened. He said,"Don't you understand? I am in hell. . . Don't let me go back to hell!" . . .the man was serious, and it finally occurred to me that he was indeed in trouble. He was in a panic like I had never seen before."
(Maurice Rawlings, Beyond Death's Door,(Thomas Nelson Inc., 1979) p. 3).
Dr. Rawlings said, no one, who could have heard his screams and saw the look of terror on his face could doubt for a single minute that he was actually in a place called hell!


So which is it? Is the judgment after jesus returns or simultaneous with your demise?

Are you a christian because you love god or because you fear hell?

Your post confuses and intrigues me all at once.
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
quote:
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
--Richard Dawkins, "The God Delusion".

DF

Hi Deep,

See, you atheists quote your bible -- and we Christians quote our Bible.

But, I have good news for you and bad news. The good news is that Richard Dawkins will not be there to judge you in the end. The bad news, at least for you in your present state -- is that Jesus Christ will be there to judge you.

Might be a great time to switch Bibles.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by DarkAngel: So which is it? Is the judgment after jesus returns or simultaneous with your demise? Are you a christian because you love god or because you fear hell? Your post confuses and intrigues me all at once.

Hi Angel,

I take it from your posting name that you are not a Christian believer. But, that is beside the point. I will answer your questions which you posed to Do You.

There are several judgments. The Tribulation, which will occur shortly after the Rapture of the church, will be a judgment of the Jewish people in a sense. This is the time which God has allotted to bring the remnant of His chosen people into the fold; to bring them to the recognition of their Messiah, Jesus Christ.

During the Tribulation, the Raptured church will be in heaven where we will stand before Jesus Christ at the Bema Seat Judgment; a judgment not of punishment, but of rewards.

At the end of the seven year Tribulation, there will be a judgment of the Jews who survive the Tribulation (Ezekiel 20:32-38). Those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah will go into the Millennial Kingdom with Christ. Those who do not believe will be cast into hell.

Also, at the end of the Tribulation, the Sheep and Goat Judgment will occur. This is a judgment of the nations, the Gentile nations. Like with the Jewish survivors, those who survive the Tribulation and did not take the Mark of the Beast, will enter into the Millennial Kingdom. Those who did take the Mark of the Beast will be cast into hell.

And, finally, at the end of the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom, where Christ has reigned from the throne of David -- all those who had died without without becoming a believer, all who had died without a relationship with Jesus Christ, will be resurrected to stand in judgment before Jesus Christ. This will be a judgment of punishment -- for everyone there will be guilty of denying Jesus Christ. They will have their day in court to face the mortal life they have lived. Then, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire along with the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and all the fallen angels.

At the same time, Satan, who has been released from the 1000 year imprisonment in the abyss, will gather his new army and attempt to make war against Jesus Christ and the holy city of Jerusalem. This army will be supernaturally destroyed and Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire to join all those others who followed him in this life.

Those, my Friend, are the judgments -- and, trust me, the only one you want to participate in is the Bema Seat Judgment. All it takes to assure that you do -- is that you, before you leave this life, or before the Rapture occurs -- whichever occurs first -- will turn from following the world and turn to follow Jesus Christ. Then, you can be assured of being among those of us who will be at the Bema Seat Judgment in heaven while the world is going through the terrible Tribulation.

Think about it.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Do you know me...really?:
Either Jesus is true and all other religions are false, or other religions are true and Jesus is false. There are no other options. I choose to follow the risen Lord Jesus.


Do, I think you know as well as I do that almost every religion claims to be, to worship the one "true" religion/god.

I am I correct in that you haven't explored any other religions or Gods?

If you have, please tell me why you rejected them? (I see your reasons why you choose your God(s)?)

In other words, how are you certain, how do you know that they are false?

Regards
quote:
Originally posted by alwilliams767:
Bill:

You are a pompous ass.

No man alive knows when the Master will return. You are polluted with 2000 plus years of superstitions, and no man will tell you otherwise. You can take your sheep and goat tribs and sit on them, they simply will not happen.
Al

Hi Al,

Sounds like you have been taking lessons from Deep in interpersonal relations.

That aside, I never claimed to know when Jesus Christ will return. You are correct that no man, period, knows when He will return.

Yet, we do know from the Bible that He will return -- first to Rapture His church; then exactly seven years later to establish His Millennial Kingdom.

The time of the Rapture no one knows; but, we know it is imminent, i.e, could happen at any time -- today, next week, next month, or not for many years. Yet, we do see many signs given us in the Bible which show that it could be soon.

All this is in the Bible, the real Bible not your New Age bible.

And, all the judgments I mentioned are also in the Bible. Just possibly, if you would put aside your New Age bible, your Urantia Book -- and seek truth in the real Bible; you would not be so blind.

Al, you really should stop following Oprah and Shirley -- and start following Jesus; the real Jesus Christ, not your New Age Jesus.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Yes, true, no person would ever willing jump into a fiery lake. However without knowing Christ as your Savior, you are in turn choosing to jump into that fiery lake.


Wrong! I will not be jumping into the cruel one's lake of fire. He will have to push me. If this character were anything but a horrible, horrible, horrible being, he would do away with this dispicable creation of his and his god.
quote:
Originally posted by davidnmiles:
Wrong! I will not be jumping into the cruel one's lake of fire. He will have to push me. If this character were anything but a horrible, horrible, horrible being, he would do away with this dispicable creation of his and his god.



He is in turn not exactly punishing you in one sense of the word but he does warn everyone of what will happen if you in turn do not believe. Its not necessarily called punishing if you are warned from the very beginning. You know what will happen to you, like it or not. It will in fact happen. Its called Judgement!

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