The X Commandments

If you are that intelligent, rational, thinking and logical person that I think you are then you should realize that potentially there is more than what is before the physical eyes and beyond what you can touch with your own hands.  That although one may have skepticism that one at least can acknowledge the potential for a Spiritual realm to exist and that although man can say they represent God that if God actually exist that He can and will do His own dealing on a personal and intimate level with mankind.

*******************************************************************************************

 

The best they could do, where do you think all those hilarious signs come from?

La route Puppy-After pleurer sur ar le détournement son thread, go va droit à venir et rend AR du thread tout de lui.

While I am sure there are many what would be considered ugly sides of Christianity people are looking at humans rather than for and at God.  I am not judging you nor have i nor will I and my post back to you was just to mirror what comes at each Christian on this board at one time or another so if it seems or look ugly then consider it's the SAME thing we have seen coming toward us.  It's not fair to judge a few  by many or determine ones view of another based upon their personal biases or feelings about that persons association or belief. 

 

As for the Christ-like mask you are close but fall short in describing it correctly.  A true Christian has no mask but rather the Holy Spirit of God to associate them with God's Saved (or Saints).   Who is it that is attempting to tell you how to live?  Not I.  My suggestion to you and others is not to allow man (any human) to effect you enough that you base decisions about who God is based upon your perceptions of a Church, man, Preacher, or Christian.  We live in a free country which means that we, like you, have the right to profess our beliefs.   Quite often it's evident that some atheist would like to control that and restrict our ability to freely discuss our beliefs.  It should be evident by the fact that there usually is not one subject that we are allowed to discuss among ourselves even when we do not talk about atheist or judge anyone.  I'm sure there are Christians that would like to see a Theocracy or America a Christian Nation.  I may have wrongly said America was a Christian Nation and if I have then I now state I am wrong in that statement however I fully believe at the founding of this Nation that we are today we were a Nation of great Christian majority and therefore Christians are greatly responsible for the Government we have and the freedoms we enjoy.  While not a Christian Nation we were a Nation of Christian Believers who treasured your freedom not to Worship as much as they wanted their freedom to worship. 

gbrk,
The Founding Fathers and the European settlers of this country are two distinct groups of people, and of totally different generations. I keep reading that you seemingly equate the two as one and the same.

You said,
"Today what that evolved into is that if a person/citizen is on Government property that they cannot worship God in any way.  No Prayers or setting up a prayer group or study group on anywhere that is Federal property."

I've never heard of such a thing and find it hard to believe as remotely true. This might be a complete misunderstanding of the Constitution. Practicing your religion is your right. You can do it wherever you want. Are you really suggesting that it is prohibited to pray on the national mall, outside of a county courthouse or at a public school??  What IS illegal is for a government official to endorse one religion over another by words or acts while serving in a government capacity.

You said,
"The Constitution was to serve a purpose and be the guide for the establishment of our Countries Government and therefore carried through the whole document the sentiments professed in the First Amendment."  

Actually, the Constitution came first, the Amendments amend the Constitution, you're putting the cart before the horse.

You said,
"Attempts to REMOVE GOD or the Christian influence from the Document or it's writers though is unwarranted and not backed up from History."

No one is removing the religious influence of the writers and participants of the Constitutional convention. However, the removal of yours or any god from THE foundational document of our government was purposeful, extensively documented and readily available. But you'll have to read actual history, not Christian apologetics to know this. It was vigorously debated. Ultimately, these religious men (no disagreement) decided, as a whole, that it was to be a secular document, reflecting secular ideas to set up a secular democracy.

You said,
"I still don't know what the original question is, from the original post that you wanted me to address or reply to.  If it has to do with the 10 Commandments and their connection to American Law and/or the Constitution my simple and quick answer is .... It/They Don't!."

I'm glad we agree that our laws have no basis on the 10 Commandments. This is the reason why it's ridiculous to set monuments to the Decalogue outside of courthouses, not to mention that it's illegal to do so under the Constitution of the United States of America.

The original questions:
1] Please respond to why the 10 Commandments from God almighty are so unprofound, lame sounding and unoriginal at best?
2] As an aside, why does the Creator lump women in with other 'property' like slaves, ox and houses in #10?
3] Also does "Do not injure, abuse, oppress, enslave, insult, torment, torture, or kill any creature or living being" (written about 700 years before the Bible) not sound so much more elegant, grand and worthy of an all-knowing, all-loving deity?
4] Why did your god not write something like, but instead sounds like a jealous, bronze-age human male?

Bonus homework assignment:
Imagine how different our world might be if the Bible contained the above Jainist ethics as its central precept.

 

Actually, you will find that it is our governing bodies who have put Christian writings and symbols on the public buildings in Washington DC.    You will find the Ten Commandments, Moses, and other Christian symbols prominent in and on the Supreme Court Building -- as you can see from the photos posted below.

 

On the top of the Washington Monument, you will find a Christian statement -- and on many other buildings and monuments in our nation's capital.   If you will do your homework, you will find that the federal buildings in Washington DC, in the early years of our country, were used on Sunday as houses of worship.

 

And, you will find that the First Continental Congress allocated funds to purchase 20,000 Bibles to be distributed throughout the Thirteen Colonies -- and that same Congress funded the start-up of a printing company in Boston -- to print Bibles.

 

All of our initial institutes of higher learning, i.e., Harvard, Yale, William & Mary, etc. -- were all begun as Christian schools -- to raise up more clergy.

 

Yes, I would say the Ten Commandments and Christianity are firmly planted in the roots of our nation.   Yes, sir, America was founded as a Christian nation -- and America is still a Christian nation -- even though, in our gracious Christian brotherhood, we even allow atheists to continue to live here.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

. In fact, going by what I hear on the scanner every day/night around here in the righteous ol' bible belt buckle-There's a whole lot more christians holding grudges than there are atheists.

Is this assuming that everyone that calls themselves Christian is and knows what that really is?  Although that is a judgment call that neither of us are really able to make or should make.

Apparently NOBODY that calls themselves christian is or knows what that really is!  If they DID, there wouldn't BE all the INTER-CHRISTIAN DEBATES and studies and meetings and classes and all the jabbering between fundies and  non-fundy believers that goes on on this forum and there CERTAINLY WOULDN'T BE 6($*&!OOOOOOOGAH!!!)6 BOOKS WRITTEN ABOUT THE SUBJECT!!!!

There'd be only ONE BOOK. It'd prolly be a short one, too and if ya had any questions about it ya could go and ASK GOD BECAUSE  IF HE REALLY EXISTED AND WAS THE TOTAL BADASS EVERYBODY SAYS HE IS THERE'D BE NO FLIPPIN' DOUBT ABOUT WHERE TO FIND HIM.

 

 

  Anger? Pfft.  Anybody with half a brain would get bent out of shape what with being surrounded by uber-superstitious clods preaching and judging them all day long every day and trying to control their everyday lives and thoughts by shoving their superstition into public policy and even law and running around telling them what kind of day to have. What colossal balls!  I'm starting to get irate just talking about it.

  No, I don't resent church, religion, or the superstitious people who believe it.

I DO chuckle at them when they preach, though and try to offer some sense to what they're telling me IS. )

 RP, not every Preacher teaches accuratly and handles accuratly the Word of God

You ain't kiddin'.  I have yet to meet any 'man of god' that has any clue what all that gibberish means except for the 'put money in the plate' part.  Like I keep sayin', everybody knows that robbing people with a gun or a knife gets ya prison time-but robbing people with 'The Word' gets ya rich.  I won't even go into the CatLick church and all the diddling of little boys in the rectory. I never wanted to punch a priest so bad before I heard about that particular skulduggery.

 

 

 and there are certain denominations that are much more restrictive and condemning than say another domination.  Without getting into why so many denominations the important thing, in my opinion, is not to put man or a man or a Church BEFORE God or allow your own openness to be tainted by a specific man or Church.  I fully believe that God works through Pastors and Churches but God deals on an intimate basis with each person.

No, no....Horsepucky. Intimate my left foot. Unless you or they have ever watched football at Jesus' house or you or they have ever hadda punch Jesus in the nose for sleeping with your sister-You or they DO NOT have a personal relationship with Jesus.  From what I hear, the only intimate basis is the relationships priests try to cultivate with young boys and the relationships preachers have with women other than their wives-Oh, and all that nice MONEY people give them.

 

  To bias oneself due to the actions of a human representative of God is to shut your mind to the Holy Spirit and His attempt to reach you if you desire such without some preconceived conception of just what Salvation and Faith is.

Spirit, Schmirit. It's superstitious gobbledy****. It's stuff you tell yourself so the idea of dying doesn't seem quite so darn scary.

 

 

 so that instead of enjoying life for what it has to offer and the beauty of what all God has given us they have to find personal satisfaction at the expense of another.

 

(Atheists probably enjoy life MORE than the average christian fundy because we DON'T hobble ourselves with all the groveling and self-imposed guilt just for thinking stuff that GZs do.

Depends greatly on why there is guilt.  It is possible that one does not have confidence in their standing with Christ and is still trying to please God by living perfectly (with respect to God's laws) which is impossible for anyone.

 

There is obviously guilt, and just who the hell is 'one?' Speak plain English wouldya fr cryin' out loud? Whaddya think yer Yoda?

 

Of COURSE there's guilt! What with that list of thou-shalt-nots, All ya gotta do is listen to the scanner/read the paper/watch the news/ask a cop to see that pretty much NOBODY follows those rules. The rules even say NOT TO THINK of breaking the rules. You know how good THAT works, eh?   

 

Like I've stated before, I understand the MORALITY preceded RELIGION.

People wanted to live 'good' BEFORE somebody came up with the god story, probably because there was an ABBONDANZA of chooches back in those days and some rules were needed.

 

There is no such thing as 'living perfectly' because everybody's version of 'perfectly is different.

 

 

  We appreciate all the things THIS WORLD and LIFE has to offer.

We just don't waste any time groveling and trying to please a mythical deity because of it.

  As far as finding personal satisfaction at the expense of another-see my above mention of all the 'sinners' I hear every day/night on the scanner. Read the police reports and the newspaper headlines about some goober with more guns than brains killing his wife because she's trying to leave his drunken, abusive ass or beating her because she can't leave or hasn't decided whether or not her life is worth trying to.

  Read about all the scams and thefts that happen here in The Shoals-all committed pretty much by 'good, righteous', churchgoing christians. Every day, every night-except Sunday nights mostly because they're all in a fried chicken coma or sumpin'.

 RP, you have been in Church before.  Is the concept that some people go to Church and view their attendance as putting them right with God?

Huh? If you spoke in plain English, that might've made sense.  I dunno what to do with that sentence because you've obviously left something out in the process of trying to speak in a faux educated stodgy manner. "Is the concept that some people go to church and view their attendance as puttin them right with god.......(WHAT?)?

  They view Church Attendance equivalent to Confession yet have not the Living Holy Spirit of God and certainly not a changed heart.  Even with a Saved Christian, Child of God, they are still capable and able to violate any and all sins that are listed.  We all are human and subject to desires of the flesh and yielding to temptation or violating the laws or instructions God set forth for His people to follow, that love Him.

OK, you're quasi-Shakespearean wording is really beginning to rattle ma chains, dude,,,

In other words, "we can't possibly be able to follow the rules while we're telling everybody else to follow the rules. "  I get it. You're all hypocrites. Like I needed YOU to tell me that. LOL 

This atheist isn't out stealing or killing or scamming or abusing anybody.)

atheism is not immune to it's loons and bad characters.  History is replete with atheist who were responsible for the death of millions.  Although it does not equate to atheism when a person considers human life with no or little signifigance as they can if they consider life just an accident. 

But that doesn't make ALL atheists evil or 'bad.'  Many of us think life is even MORE awesome because it happened by accident.

 

 

 

  What Christians have to offer is the chance to meet and experience the Creator of the Universe and all life within and a fulfilling life  that one seeks not to condemn or ridicule another but to share the happiness that they have found.

 

(While the preacher is robbing them blind a few bucks at a time.

AH! *Hush* I been there once or eleventy-seven times and Iknow how it works.

Like every organization there are bad players who manipulate people's gullability.  There is also much good done through donations.  A lot of issues are made about money but most money is given willingly even if out of unfounded trust at times.  Besides operational expenses I know of plenty of Churches that do great with money helping families and people in need and being accountable.

They ALL manipulate gullible people in one way or another. No exceptions.  What about the preacher in the new Porsche? Is he held accountable? The one somebody mentioned putting his kids through college and living in the big house and driving the new BMW?  Is HE accountable?  Do you know how many ppeople who don't give a s&$* about god or religion LIE and PLAY THE GAME THE FUNDIES WANNA SEE PLAYED just to receive any kind of benefit from churches?  Your head would spin.

 

 

Now consider some information provided in Popular Science August 2011 pg 40 "Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider at Long Island, NY,  Annual Budget 160 Million plus Construction Cost 671 Million created to   Scientist are trying to recreate (by collisions) the conditions that existed in the first millionth of a second after the BIG BANG.  A Scientific THEORY that no one can prove and that many contemporary scientist are beginning to question what happened before The Big Bang.  Now same magazine pg .48 Large Hadron Collider beneath the border of France and Switzerland with operating budget of 1.2 BILLION and Cost of Construction at 7.82 BILLION in order to find the "GOD Particle".  Obviously not a project that many Christians would care to contribute to but none the less receives much support from our Taxes and these are not voluntary given and I dare say outweigh greatly the donations willingly given by people to Churches all to attempt to prove a theory which came about from Scientist and people who deny God's possibility of being the Creator.  While these projects may be considered needful or wise by some they are financed in part by people who would not want their money going for such and without our direct knowledge.  Is this not a reason to be angry?   Waste of money like many things is highly subjective.

Really? I would think that christians would be BUSTING THESE GUYS' DOORS DOWN AND THROWING MONEY AT THEM just because somebody called it a 'GOD PARTICLE!'

But NOOOooooo. What if science proved their belief to be unfounded?  Can't have any of THAT now because it's MORE FUN, I guess to believe a fable told by ancient, nomadic sheep herders than to actually try to FIND OUT where everything actually came from.

Besides, that wouldn't do much to alleviate anybody's fear of death, now would it?

Ignorance ON PURPOSE makes me angry. Not expensive science projects that teach us stuff we might actually be able to use.

    

You cannot tell me that you are living a life of fulfillment when you have all those rules and regulations and procedures that contradict each other and you have to spend all that time and money figuring out what the rules 'really mean' and groveling and thanking and preaching and worrying about where you might go when you die because you're afraid of dying. THAT'S a kind of 'happiness' to share?

  No thanks. I'll stick with taking each day as it comes for what it's worth and seeing what I can do with it.

On the Contrary while I have a sincere desire to serve and obey my God in order to show my appreciation for what He did for me it is not a burdensome relationship of bondage.  I do not view my Salvation contingent upon my acts or what sins I commit or don't commit.  My Salvation rest in God's ability kept by God's Holy Spirit which altered my life and heart and fills me with God's Love and gratitude.  The Holy Spirit within God's Children/Saints yields benefits and gifts to the believer as explained in the following scripture and I testify that for me it's true.

Whatever gets ya through the day. You wanna be a sheep-have at it. Not my problem.  Just keep yer religious rules and regs outta MY schools, Public offices, state laws, federal laws and any other place where they might impinge upon my liberties as an American citizen. Keep 'em in your church where they belong-and stop tryna brainwash my kids with that superstitious crap.

 

Galatians 5:22-23 (NLT)
22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things! .

  In all honesty mine is not a life of burden of having to worry about this or that law for with Jesus Christ we have put to death the Law and live in Grace and while we are dead to the Law we attempt to live by the Laws and God's will in order to show our love and appreciation for His Gift and continue to ask forgiveness for those Sins we do allow to cloud our relationship with God / Holy Spirit.

Yo! Hello! Plain English? Please? Ya want a response, ya gotta put it so those of us who didn't groove on Victorian English can dig. 

 

I laugh. I really do. Christians condemn and ridicule EACH OTHER BETTER THAN ANY ATHEIST COULD OR CARES TO.  I just plain LMMFAO!)

 

 

 

It is very interesting to note that something that one does not believe in can cause one to spend so much time and effort to attempt to tear down or destroy.

 

 

(You mean 'tear down and destroy' like, as in what the christian fundies do when they tell us atheists we are ignorant, stupid, uneducated, and going to hell every one of us??   Ya.  Thought so.   )

 No matter what you may say or indicate it is not Scriptural for any Christian to Judge you or anyone else with respect to your eternal destiny.

 

Yeahhuh. But that sure doesn't stop the thumpers from doing just that anyway.

  While a Christian can share their understanding of what will happen to us all and what Jesus Christ sacrifice means with respect to the impending Judgment that we all will face no one is able or right to personally condemn you so if you are letting this effect you then you are listening to man and not to God.

 

Well DUH! I don't believe in a god. YOU can face that judgement. You created the concept of it-you toture yourself with it.

 

  If it was in fact nothing then it would have long ago been eradicated.

 

 

(By WHAT, pray tell?)

 If there was nothing to it then it would have passed into  history long ago.  There is a reason that Christianity has lasted and maintained through the years.  There is a very valid and real reason that people believe and the same reason they have confidence with their personal standing with God.

 

Ya, they're afraid of dying. They wanna think that there's 'something else' good after this life. 'Course they don't hesitate to relegate everybody else they don't like to a different flavor of 'something else.'

 

   A survey of post on the Religion forum will easily reveal an attack mentality so why is that?  Most likely it is due to a past encounter with either Church, a Christian that either rubbed the person the wrong way or caused a resentment within that person.  Could be they blame God for not doing something to or for them or failure to give them something they felt they deserved.

 

 

(Most likely it is actually because as soon as a christian fundy figures out that they are talking to an atheist, their 'attack mentality' cult training kicks in involuntarily and they begin telling the atheist that they are wrong, foolish, and hellbound for not believing in the superstition like they do. All the " Have a blessed days" in the world can't hide that particular fact.

 

Some people rub me the wrong way-just as I'm sure that I rub them the wrong way. It's human nature. Unfortunately, not everybody can or will do as Ono says and "all get along."  This fact is why there have always been Crusades, jihads, suicide bombers and chooches who hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings fulla people.

 

You know very well that there are atheist that make pronouncements or judgments about Christians based on what we believe and their post reflect that.  Christians do not have a patient on fundamentalism for what they believe and neither do they on being judgmental or classifying individuals based upon what the person believes.  It is a human trait and that doesn't make it right.

 

No. You're absolutely right. I only fight back when the fundys draw blood-and they ALWAYS draw first blood as far as I'm concerned.

 

Note COMMA  HOWEVER that the aforementioned Crusaders/jihadists/suicide bombers/and airplane-flying-building-crashin-into-chooches have pretty much ALL been R-E-L-I-G-I-O-U-S  F-U-N-D-A-M-E-N-T-A-L-I-S-T-S, not atheists.

 Although WRONG and tragic you do see the depth of their belief.  Many Christians gave their life after the days of Christ for their personal belief including all the Disciples.  Had Christ not gave them ample and good reason to believe He was who He said I cannot imagine all of them facing the horrible deaths that they did for a lie or deception.  While yes people can be fundamental and radical and wrong one has to question why during those days after Christ that all the Disciples and Apostles would stay unified saying that Jesus Christ was God in flesh come to sacrifice himself for mankinds sins and die then rise again reporting that He appeared to each then arose into Heaven/the Sky pronouncing that He would return again.  There was some very compelling reason that all of them kept and stuck with Christ after he was crucified on the Cross.  If He had not risen you might say one or two would continue His deception but Having Risen He gave them cause to not consider their life for they had their eye on a life after death and a Promise, from Christ.

 

OKJ, you believe that Great Pumpkin stuff. People can't fly without mechanical help.

Jim Jones gave HIS followers ample reason to pull their own plugs, too. He promised them stuff, too. Go figure. /shrug

 

 

Atheists don't blame god for anything, much less get mad at him. Don'tcha get it? We don't BELIEVE in a god.

Correct Atheist do not believe in God or a God but many allow mortal man and their impressions of a man or Church effect their reasoning for rejecting that God can or does exist.  Others base their decision on the fact that they aren't somehow important for a God of the Universe to personally manifest Himself before them specifically.  Even though God said He came in Flesh in a man named Jesus Christ and died on the Cross for our sins and did many signs and miracles to testify to that man still is not willing to accept God.  Many will not allow faith to enter the picture and want to require God to personally appear before them with miracles.  I say God, today, reveals Himself to those who honestly with an open, unbiased, heart seeking Him and reveals Himself unto them through Conviction and touching their heart/mind/soul.

 

Nobody affects my reasoning-That's a believers' disease.

 

I was raised a strict CatLick and all I got out of it was a cookie and some bad wine once inna while and a lotta mumbojumbo.

 

Once I started to realize that there really IS no apparent supernatural, I giggled some and got down to livin' instead o' grovelin.')

 Again, you do NOT have 'an intimate relationship with Jesus.' He died a long time ago.

 

  Either way or however there is not usually found an argument for atheism that does not include Christianity within it in some attempt to make Christianity look bad or negative.

 

 

True dat, usually-but actually christians don't seem to really need a lotta help doing that very nicely by themselves.  Oh, sure....They preach love and forgiveness and compassion and then when nobody's looking they waste no time in getting down to the business of stealing and lying and killing and telling us heathens that we're all going to hell.

 

It's YOUR hell of your own creation. Like "Madge" said in the old Palmolive commercial-"You're soaking in it."  YOU burn in it.  I ain't havin' no part of it.

 

Again. I laugh.)

 And again it sounds to me like you are making judgments about God based upon individual believers who are not speaking for God but exceeding their Spiritual authority for no one has the right or job to judge/convict another human for their acts and sins.  Only the Holy Spirit of God can and does that.  To allow someone to effect your potential relationship with God by their callous acts is a great discredit to your own self but ultimately will not be an acceptable excuse for not honestly seeking God..

 

 No, I'm making judgements about god based upon a serious LACK OF EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND other than an ancient fairytale dreamed up by ancient, illiterate sheep herders.  I say again, Nobody is affecting my relationship with god because I DONT BELIEVE IN A GOD.  OBVIOUSLY you WEREN'T PAYING ATTENTION the FIRST TIME.  When I was taught to be a believer and before I started thinking for myself, I DID honestly seek god.  He was a major disappointment.  Stood me up EVERY time. No angst though. None atall. I just wised up.

 

   Bill and I seem to be the present target of that ire so we are now the "best" case for Atheism and not something that atheism has to offer in and of itself.

 

 

(Actually, BeeG and you seem to be competing with Br. Skippy for who gets to be the head preacher in this forum.

Knock yaselves out.  It's quite entertaining.   )

 

Glad we could help.

 

 

(Oh, yeah... Do ya think ya could possibly make your posting syntax any MORE obtuse?  Take a gander at some of Rramnlimnimnimn's posts. He's a veritable MASTER of obtuse.)

 

  Oh...Yeah.... Have whatever kinda day ya wanna have.

A Preacher or preaching does not listen or reply but dictates doctrine based upon their understanding or interpretation of the Bible.  Ministers are called, gifted (by the Holy Spirit) with the ability to share God's message with people and when ministering allows God's Holy Spirit to use their words for His own purpose but does not include personal judgment that many of you say happens between Christians and atheist.  I'm truly sorry you have had negative experiences with some of God's representatives and some do take more onto themselves than they are equipped to do.  I hope though that if there is a sincere heart seeking in there that whoever has that seeking heart will remove bias from it and openly, honestly, seek God's call and ask sincerely ask God to manifest Himself to them.  I fully believe that God seeks those who honestly sincerely seek Him and that doesn't mean by a preacher, priest, minister or other Christian although God certainly can use each to reach someone searching for Him.  In such a case though God's interaction with the individual will be a very personal and intimate one that often comes long after the words or visit from the agent of God.. 

 

If you are that intelligent, rational, thinking and logical person that I think you are then you should realize that potentially there is more than what is before the physical eyes and beyond what you can touch with your own hands.  That although one may have skepticism that one at least can acknowledge the potential for a Spiritual realm to exist and that although man can say they represent God that if God actually exist that He can and will do His own dealing on a personal and intimate level with mankind.

Because I am an intelligent, rational, thinking and logical person, I absolutely cannot bring myself to believe in 'magic', a belief in which would be required to accept the possibility of 'god.'  What IS is what's here and now. Anything else is just make-believe. I'm not wasting what I HAVE for WHAT MIGHT BE.

 

 

Dude....We seriusly gotta find a better way to communicate. Between the long-ass convolouted "Post From Heck"(tm) and this asinine formatting, my scroll wheel's now smoking and my scrolling finger has gotten such a workout that it's almost as big as my....well.....you get the idea. 

 

Whew.

 

_________________________________________________________________________

 "we even allow atheists to continue to live here."

Heh.  Many of us will outlive YOU.  

 

Oh. I bet ya tore your 'once saved-always saved' ass on THAT one!

 

LOL  The "TaliBill."

 

Chooch.

Hi GB and Puppy,

 

Is ANYONE supposed to be able to make sense of all that jumbled, intertwined, and confusing BOLD and COLORED TEXT?  If you have a message for the masses to read -- make it easy for us to read.  All of this -- and a full page of ALL ITALIC text -- stops people from reading your messages.

 

And, personally, I think you both have something to say.  So, stop the foolish games and present us with readable posts.  Just my thoughts.

 

Don't be so lazy.  Take the time to separate one person's posts and comments from another.  It can be done using the "quote" and "/unquote" codes.  It may take a few seconds longer -- but, the results are well worth the effort.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill has to be pulling this person's strings.

"Don't be lazy", from the King of cut and paste. That is amusing.

Wasn't it gb that went off the rails because AR posted oh his sacred thread??? And now look at all this garbage gb has put here.  Who reads all that mess? Can you imagine going to a church where the preacher preached like some of them post here? You'd have to bring extra clothing and food because you wouldn't get out until monday morning, maybe not even then. There are so many empty service stations, office buildings, etc for rent, looks like these frustrated wannabe preachers would go rent one of them and set up their church.

Nah, I guess they'd druther pitch their tents here..

 

@BeeG: You ain't kiddin'! I'm not doing THAT again. I wrote parts of it and *I* can't even folow it.

Ain't no lazy about it. That was quite a c hor e (I got one nerved left and this dang filter is just tap-dancing on it.) breaking up that mess that was already there and the constant scrolling up and down to keep having to change the stupid text.

 

C H O R E? LOL, they blocked N A Z I S in one of my posts.

Your statement in red is a lie, it has been repeatedly shown as a lie, and yet you continue to throw it out and hope it sticks.  Consider your Liar's for Jesus membership to be in good standing.

 

As for the rest, there are tons of Masonic and Roman mythological symbols all over our capital's government buildings, including one of the Apotheosis of George Washington on the Capitol's rotunda.  As I am sure you are aware, the Apotheosis of George Washington, by definition, is a depiction of GW becoming a god.  There are additional classical Roman gods and mythological symbols depicted in this painting.  

 

Using your reasoning, Masonry and its symbols - along with Roman mythology - "are firmly planted in the roots of our nation.  Yes, sir, America was founded as a [Masonic and Roman] nation -- and America is still a [Masonic and Roman] nation..." 

 

Your arguments in this post are either false or fallacy.  It is easy to see how your fallacious logic works.  You believe allegories to be factual, so finding truth in symbolic depictions is just a step along the same path.

Notice how all the Christians have either avoided this topic all together and the few objectors have quietly stepped away. This topic is theistically unwinnable. The 10 Commandments suck and the USA was not founded on Christian principles. End of lesson. I declare this battle is again (easily) won by secularists with history books.

Several of you atheist are so predictable.  Well lets see Crusty says to Bill he is a liar because he says that the First Congress appropriated 20,000 Bibles and other statements and further goes on to say this has been repeatedly proven false.  None of you will rest until, in your own minds, you re-write history into some Godless form to remove God from everything.  You somehow have such a problem coming to a realization that our great nation was founded by CHRISTIANS and GODLY, Religious men and that being the case great likelihood and probability that our founding documents and Government was set up by these same Godly Christians with Christian principals on their mind.  Respect for God and man's/citizen's right to worship God freely and as they wish.  You want to remove this from all possibility and through Dawkins or Hitchen's and their biased efforts to do the same you will accept what anyone says that somehow voids the truth.

I'm sorry but Crusty is sadly repeatedly either IGNORANT of American History or willingly deceitful or just plainly gullible.  If there was some way to bring the record of the Congress before you then you still would not believe it if it was there in fine print that Congress did it.  NO you cannot accept a Christian's word on it and just because we (Christian representatives on the forum) do not respond in YOUR time you declare victory.  I didn't know there was a war or conflict going on. 

Well here is my reply to you and Crusty and the atheist attempt to rewrite American History.  No wonder you want to totally control our educational system you want to propagate misinformation about our Nations founding and the people who founded it and settled it even though the two are different.  From the first settlers up to the time of our Constitution and the Countries founding Christians were the great majority and the Bible and Christian beliefs were in their minds and influenced their writing.  I am as sure of that as I am that Bill IS RIGHT and that it is Crusty that is wrong.  Just why would you think we would make that statement if we knew it to be a lie?  Would we lie to say the Congress provided for Bibles if it wasn't true just because IF true it might make our case stronger?  You cannot prove it didn't happen and given the Congress consisted mostly of Godly Christian men it is most likely that it did happen.  We haven't avoided the topic and attempt not to avoid any topic.  Our answers are usually rejected by atheist but we provide them anyway..

 

 

Whats the point of explaining any thing to you atheist retards over and over and over 

Its just wasting time.

In a reply by itself let me restate again that as for myself I am not saying that this Country was set up to be a Christian nation dictating religion or they would have written it so.  What I am saying is the following:

 

• The First Settlers were Christians and came from Europe in order to Worship God in the way they wanted to free from control of the Church of England.
• The founding of our Country was done mainly by Godly Christian men who held the view that the Bible was God's Word and I have no doubt influenced their beliefs and was in their minds during our Countries founding.  Not a Christian Nation but a Nation of Christians responsible for your freedoms.
• That the Constitution of America did not establish a Christian Nation for the same reason that the First Amendment was added.  Religious freedom, free from any Government (present and future) telling the people how they can worship.  Freedom to worship God in the way they wanted was to be protected.  The Constitution was not a Religious document for that reason.  Not because the founders were non-Religious but because they did not want to establish a government that could become a Theocracy.  The document was to establish the Government not a church or denomination.  It was to be free of the influence of any denomination. 
• I fully believe that atheist want to rewrite American History.  History like Congress appropriating 20,000 Bibles because that way they can reinforce their current interpretation of the First Amendment.  They want to say that Government is to have no contact with the Church at all, NO support of anything to do with GOD.  Many places you cannot erect a nativity scene on Government Property or display any religious symbols because it is deemed a violation of the First Amendment governing Separation of Church and State.  They want and desire and teach that the 20,000 appropriated Bibles is a lie.
• The reason is logical.  This was the first Congress after the Constitution was established and the authors and signers of the document were alive and still instrumental in the Government.  IF therefore Congress did appropriate 20,000 Bibles then those who wrote the document who surely knew their intent in writing the First Amendment, would reject immediately and there would have been an immediate uproar.  Here you would have had the First Congress established by the Constitution doing something that would have Violated the Constitution's First Amendment (if the atheist have it right about what they say it means).  That is why the atheist have to say the appropriation of the Bibles was a lie.  They have to for if it was done and allowed to be done then the atheist interpretation of the First Amendment and  Separation of Church and State wuold be extremely hard to support and they could not counter our assertion that the Fathers of our Constitution and those who approved it did not want to remove God from Government.
• Worship of God, freedom to do so, was to be protected and assured.  If the First Amendment was to Separate Government totally from Religion, like it is taught today in secular schools, then the appropriation of 20,000 Bibles by the Congress would have been an immediate violation of the very Document that Set up Congress. 

Think about it ... This is why we believe the appropriation of the 20000 Bibles IS valid and true because we fully believe that the First Amendment was not to isolate Government from God as our atheist members attest.  They call it a lie, they say it's been proven untrue.  I believe that is either a deliberate deception or a show of Ignorance of American History.  One would potentially reflect an agenda while the other possibly wishful thinking..

 

The "lesson" continues

 

I'm sorry but Crusty is sadly repeatedly either IGNORANT of American History or willingly deceitful or just plainly gullible.  If there was some way to bring the record of the Congress before you then you still would not believe it if it was there in fine print that Congress did it.  NO you cannot accept a Christian's word on it and just because we (Christian representatives on the forum) do not respond in YOUR time you declare victory.  I didn't know there was a war or conflict going on. 

GBRK:

The record of Congress is available from the Library of Congress website.  I've shown this site with the original minutes from Congress in response to Bill's posts.  What you will find, if you actually look, and don't accept Bill's word at face value, is the truth.  The truth is that Congress looked at subsidizing the purchase of the material to print the Bibles as an attempt to avoid price gouging during a time of shortage.  Before that happened, some guy named Aiken took on the job of printing the Bibles.  He received NO money from Congress.  What Congress actually did was to pass a resolution commending Aiken's printing of the Bible.

So GBRK, I'll have to add you to the list of Liar's for Jesus if you wish to continue to spread the misinformation that Congress printed Bibles.  You don't even have your facts straight.  It was not the first congress after the signing of the Constitution that this story is about, which brings the rest of your argument to a screeching halt.  The Lie that Bill perpetuates involves the Continental Congress in 1777 through 1781. 

The Congressional Record is available, and I HAVE seen the fine print.  They DID NOT fund, print, or distribute any Bibles.

So to repeat, for the record for we know accuracy is important with all this lying going on.

1a) Congress looked only at subsidizing material for the Bibles so Print Paper or Bond to print Bibles but certainly NOT Bibles for that would Violate the First Amendment.

1b) Crusty says shortage of paper/material was due to Gouging during a time of shortage.

2) Before that Mr. Aiken took the job of printing Bibles but (I assume) he was not connected with the Government so the Government had no Connection to the Bibles themselves (my assumption).

3) He (Aiken) received NO Money from the Government (Congress).

4) All Congress did was pass a resolution commending Aiken's Printing of the Bible.

 

Note that if the pages don't appear below or the links don't word I have attached all three pages below.

 

Do the FACTS and EVIDENCE back up your accuracy or the Christian lies (as you call them)?

03600733.tif 

 

Pg 733, Last paragraph, A Committee Appointed to Consider what?  Rev Dr. Allison and others report.  What was the Report? --> Looks like a shortage of paper for the printing of Bibles alright but why the Shortage?  Paper cannot be procured but with such difficulties and subject to such causalties as render any dependence on it altogether improper.  Got to remember something was going on during this time, what was that?  Could it be WAR with England?  Where is that gouging issue?  What about casualties, is that from gouging or possibly cause of conflict?  Sounds like the paper could be obtained but with difficulty and potential casualties.  Now I could be wrong I somehow I think that means it would be hard to get because of the threat of death to those obtaining it.  I don't read in there anywhere that has to do about COST which would translate to gouging.  1b) above is looking thin.

03610734.tif

 

 pg 734  continued, note the committee seems to recommend Congress appropriate money to obtain enough type paper to print off 30,000 copies with paper binding or the WHOLE BIBLE at a cost of £10,272 10 pounds to be reimbursed by the sale of the books/Bibles.  Then comes the good part, stay tuned.

 

The Committee recommends different .. the reasons for the reconsideration is given but I like this next part . read with me ... "that the use of the Bible is so universal, andits importance so great, that your committee refer the above to the consideration of Congress.  Now the next good part:  your committee recommend that Congress import 20,000 Bibles from Holland, Scotland or elsewhere into the different ports of the states in the Union:  Hey Crusty what is that next line????  Oh the resolution that's right.  Whereupon the Congress was moved, to order the Committee of Commerce to import twenty thousand copies of the Bible:  Then comes the VOTE.

 03620735.tif

pg 735, Note the DATE:  September 11, 1777

under the vote the outcome:  Lets read together: So it was resolved in the affirmative. 

 

Lets see now.  What about our above points again in light of the actual Congressional Journal of September 11, 1777.  

 

1a) Congress looked only at subsidizing material for the Bibles so Print Paper or Bond to print Bibles but certainly NOT Bibles for that would Violate the First Amendment.   Evidence, at least to my eyes, looks like there was discussion to obtain material locally, to print Bibles but I don't see a Mr. Aikens mentioned anywhere and looks like the Government was going to do the printing and the obtaining of material and then go into the Bible Selling business to help out the budget and recover the money.  So for 1a) Crusty (atheist) goes down in flames . . . oops sorry shouldn't have said flames

1b) Crusty says shortage of paper/material was due to Gouging during a time of shortage.  Crusty I may not read and comprehend as well as others but looks like to me the difficulties here was worry about getting the paper and obtaining enough without harm due to getting killed by someone.  I don't see anything about prices being too high or costly here.  Crusty goes down on Gouging also

2) Before that Mr. Aiken took the job of printing Bibles but (I assume) he was not connected with the Government so the Government had no Connection to the Bibles themselves (my assumption).

There was a Report by a Rev. Dr. Allison but I see no mention of a Mr. Aiken printing any Bibles here.  There is definite intent on the Government (Congress) to print the Bibles and then sell them to get the money back but the nice, warm and fuzzy thing (at least to me) is that they (Congress/Government felt the Bible was so universal (universal umm I think that is a way of saying it (the Bible) is very popular and desired) AND, I like this part, It's (The Bible) IMPORTANCE SO GREAT.  Why you think they would say such?  Maybe Trust in GOD?  Maybe for the information inside or do you think it was just to shield them from those nasty RedCoat shells?  Either way on point 2 - Crusty pitching some guy Aiken printing Bibles that Congress pays part of the cost (that's what subsidizing means) - TRUTH - Government looks at paying ALL the Cost and doing ALL the Printing then selling Bibles to help get the money back.

3) He (Aiken) received NO Money from the Government (Congress).  On this point Crusty is 100% accurate for there is NO mention of any money going to an Aiken for printing Bibles.

4) All Congress did was pass a resolution commending Aiken's Printing of the Bible.  -  Well you know where this is going by now Crusty,  Care to guess the end of the story?

 

Now about this statement of yours that I copy here:

So GBRK, I'll have to add you to the list of Liar's for Jesus if you wish to continue to spread the misinformation that Congress printed Bibles.  You don't even have your facts straight.  It was not the first congress after the signing of the Constitution that this story is about, which brings the rest of your argument to a screeching halt.

I ask you Crusty ... according to the Evidence, from the Government's website.  WHO IS LYING NOW?  Who is spreading MISINFORMATION NOW?  I will give you in my zest to make a point that the Constitution was finally signed in September 1778 it should be evident that there was no move to isolate God from Government and that in fact Government was all for getting the Bible (God's Word) the Whole Christian Bible into as many people's hands as possible.  In fact if there had of been 50 States then that would have been 400 Bibles per State. 

 

Point is BILL WAS CORRECT and you Incorrect.  I doubt an apology or retraction is in the coming for I realize how difficult it is for you atheist to do anything or say anything wrong or put out misinformation.  In fact it is most likely documents like the above copies and information like this the reason it is so important to limit what History can be taught in Government Schools for we should never let people know our Government and Congress ever distributed or obtained 20,000 copies of a Book that taught and informed people about a Creator called GOD.  No this would be potentially teaching Creationism and about Religion and we all know this violates the First Amendment.

 

Your Reply????????????????????     as A Rob put it .. The Lesson Continues ...

Keep on trying to re-write history gb.

***********************************************************************************************************

 

I have noticed that after all the whining about his threads being invaded by mean old atheists gb has taken over this one with his long rambling posts and yes, it has gone off topic. Now gb and bill are trying to re-write history.

Aaannnnnnd...........FAIL.

 

 

And you are still blabbing out stupid replies and following the other athiest around their behinds trying to look like you know something. You must be their number 1 butt kisser.

It is obvious Congress saw the need for Bibles to be available to everyone.

Why the atheistisisimistics would argue the point is beyond me.

I think somewhere between the lines of this congressional thinking atheism could certainly be perceived as unpatriotic and subject to some penalty under the law seeing as how congress’ intention was for the Bible to be read by all citizens.

I'm new but looks like bill & gbrk r owed a thumb up.  gbrk proved the point. christians told truth an atheist r 1's who lied and r wrong!  This is tru enligtenment

Thanks Time2 and welcome to the forum.  I think that the images of the Documents show very clearly that the information the atheist put forth was incorrect and therefore it's obvious who wants people to believe a revisionist History.  They say Congress never authorized money for Bibles or Printed Bibles.  Well Congress my not have printed them but the document shows they obtained them for the citizens.  Atheist don't want to hear that though.  They also didn't comment on how the Bible was considered of Great Importance. 

 

I also find it funny how on one part A Rob, who started this forum and many places kept asking me to respond to questions and then put that he noticed how all the Christians have avoided the topic and how I quietly slipped away turns into some indicating that I took over the forum.  That's hilarious.  You INVITE someone to respond and come in then you lambast them for doing so.  Makes about as much sense as maintaining the same statements about the 20,000 Bibles and Congress even after presented with the an image of the Physical Proof.

 

Note all that these are the exact same people that claim they would believe God if He manifested Himself before them giving them Physical Proof because that is what they demand.  Yet when presented with Physical Proof of a exponentially lesser important item they still reject it.  Is there any wonder why God would not do so?  They would not accept anything as proof no matter what it was for they have their minds and their hearts made up and will defend it and carry it to their death, or at least many will.

 

So lets see your evidence and proof that Congress did not obtain 20,000 Bibles anyone? 

Hey gbrk word up man u put sum up front crushin on dem atheist haters man thumb up!  I never heard about all dat going down in congress B 4.  Guess that is the change-UP History they force on us now.  I'm plannin on getting back on the post cuz too much fightin in here 4 me.  Them atheist B hatin on me next.  But dude one question?  This Jennifer gurl,  what kind of thing she got on u?  Man dis angry person really got a hate fixation on U.  I don't know why all dem atheist here in Religion anyway cause they don't believe in it and all the do is hate on christin's while sayin u judge dem.  Sounds like they wanna keep you off here too so man u must b cuttin dem sharply with truth for dem to be so raw at U.  I think they here to hate and throw bad info and you just froze dem with fact.  Slap down ringside and I had front row seat. 
Checkin out y'all I don't see how u christin's put up with the hate man and dat Jenny should major chill for dat is 1 angry mad jilted old        Well we would say "B" but all I kno of her is what I C here and wow man she filled the dictionary under that word.

Rockon and War Eagle again

Don't go so soon Time2 you just got here.  Actually you are a breath of fresh air at least for me.  I love the way you put things.  I don't want to purposely avoid your questions either but I have resolved to remove myself from some of the conversation therefore I shall not comment regarding another forum member.  If you want to ask your question to them feel free but if you have a question for me I will gladly answer.  If you have a question about the Bible or Christianity then also feel free to ask I don't mind respectful questions anytime. Feel free also to come back anytime.  I'm afraid though you will find one area to disagree with me on though.  I favor Alabama over Auburn come this time of year so if you can look past that ask me what you like and I will try and answer.

Thanks man but no I got no questions.  As for askin U dem others man I hope U didn't mind I can respect U not wantin to say anything. Elephant Man AL also is Kool wit me cuz I aint 1 of dem radicals.  Thanks for offerin 2 hook me up with info 2 but I'm not really ready 2 chill with religion yet. I do dig it though.  I do know I don't want 2 B no atheist cuz I got no hater in me and them folk are obsessed with it.  There looks like more atheist in in here than christin's.  U and mumma seem to B taming dem all tho.  Man figure more atheist than religionist in a religion forum then sayin y'all tryin 2 convert them and judgin dem but they the ones preachin bad vibes on y'all and thin they the ones dooin all the talkin where the don't believe in it.  Whose convertin who?  They callin y'all names so who judging who?  Atheist y'all make the christin's look good all the bad info y'all shootin out.  Hatein and bad info all where you don't believe I call BUSTED!

 

Don't get yer hopes up too high, gbrk.

 

Most of the brand-new names showing up here lately to troll are re-incarnations of some of the folks who got nuked in the last swing of the banhammer.

 

Just a heads up. It oughtta get real interesting around here for awhile.

OMG!! and these are supposed to be adults??? ROTFLMFNAO!!!!!!!!

RP sind sie sicher gb ist ein Mann? Ich schwöre, ich eine Frau sein will, wie ein Mann. Wenn es ein Mann, es ist eines der am meisten femininen Männern habe ich je gesehen habe.

 

 

 

Oh Lordy! Old atheist Gal wants to be a woman whos like a

dainty feminine man to RP?

Does rp want to be a feminine man whos like a woman

I'll answer all this later but there is one major flaw in your argument that you seem to have overlooked.  The whole Bible funding thing took place prior to the Consititution being drafted in 1789.

You've responded to no questions that I've asked. Do or don't, I don't care, but don't claim that you have. You've posted a whole lot and managed again to say very little. You claim not to understand the purpose of this thread or what is being asked and have asked me to repeat my questions for your benefit so that you can reply. I have done so repeatedly and you've never replied. Since you are not blind and at least functionally literate, the only conclusion is purposeful avoidance. This thread is otherwise filled with gibberish of zero substance, plus one of Bill's proven lies. Not much of a substantive Christian response, I'd say. Nothing that I quoted at the start of this thread or comments I've made on the subject since have been refuted. That's why we win again.

 

Don't confuse cutting and pasting someone else's comments to questions I haven't asked with actually responding to questions.

 

gb, Against my experience and better judgement, I've been trying to have a two-way conversation with you in measure of your willingness and ability to do so, especially after all your ridiculous accusations towards atheist's willingness and ability to do the same. So far, you're full of hot air and delicate sensitivities. Your complaints are unfocused and bluntly flung in every which direction hoping to hit someone in order to satisfy what you want to be true but can't prove about atheists and atheism. I'd wish you'd live up to the standards you set for everyone else, but I suspect that not doing so is just inherent in begin an average Christian.

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we all have bing translator

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ignorance with "rules of operation"[A planned undertaking. ] Adot. yours has contours [An outline, boundary or border] and coherence [
 logical arrangements of parts ] Wiki

I'm sure that is possible for lots of people here have been here before an come back from a ban.  Thing is though, at least in my time, I've never seen another member put things the way Time2 was talking. Either way I still say welcome or welcome back.

 

As for getting interesting I hope it does for the regulars for I have about had my fill of it.  I'm considering banning myself and taking a sabbatical.  What I came here in the beginning is an impossibility as of now for any new Christian that might happen to come into the forum with a questino of interest will either get a slap down by at least one atheist  and/or have Bill immediately instruct them on something about how they are wrong or should know more.  If I don't have anything to give and contribute constructively I don't plan to waste mine and others time.  If I go into a room where my grandchildren are all whining, yelling, screaming, and at each other and I can't put a stop to it then I leave and let the parents take over. 

 

I already have one on my personal ban list that I care no longer to have any dialog with so without any real reason to stay then you can enjoy the interest because I, myself am winding down and already advised a few in dialog of my plans to soon part.  Now with this post it's public knowledge for all.  So Pup have fun with the new and improved forum whatever it morphs into for as I said before I don't go into the clearly labeled atheist forums for I have no interest in them and consider this one close to being an extension of those without the name.  Like there I'm losing interest or feeling I an contribute in a constructive way here so with that being the case I no longer will take the time to do it.