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23 replies

Time to consider thinking.

Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
I have been away, after being threatened with a visit from a platoon of Army Rangers, or Air Force Air Traffic Controllers, I have forgotten which, It seemed wise to ignore the Rabid Radical Right Babble that makes up a lot of this forum, Plus, I got my life back though the ministrations of a federal health care system available only to former members of the Military Services. The Montgomery GI Bill, the law that saved my life, was signed into law by Lyndon Johnson, and provides medical care to all honorably discharged veterans. Thanks America.

The T.E.A Party Movement would likely modify that legislation in keeping with their platform, (We Are) Taxed Enough Already. That is not a true statement by the way. Think about this: "If we were "Taxed Enough Already" we would not have a deficit. Revenues would be as high as expenditures.

The GI bill is paid for with tax money. It provides loan guarantees for home buyers, it provides financial support for education, and it provides a limited medical plan as well. We, as a nation, pay taxes to provide that for the people who took up arms to keep this nation secure.

Another set of problematic programs is the Research and Development budget for the Department of Agriculture, and the subsidies that make farming possible and profitable in a highly competitive world market. We EAT because we provide financial aid to farmers and corporate farms. Then there is the National Institute of Health, and the Center For Disease Control, Combined those two government operations have pinpointed and corrected threats to our food supply, they have provided the research funding needed to find, produce and enforce measures that prevent the scourges of disease that in the past have killed millions. They are tax supported. The Federal Court System is tax supported, the Defense Department is tax supported, the Transportation Safety Administration is tax supported. The Federal Highway Administration and the Federal Housing Administration, are tax supported, and we ARE NOT TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY. WE HAVE A DEFICIT.

Government spending, almost every nickle of government spending goes for paying for either products produced by working men and women, or it goes directly to pay the salaries of working men and women. Nearly every penny of government spending creates or sustains a job.

DEFICIT spending creates inflation as well as jobs. And the great challenge of the present economic recovery effort is about generating economic activity WITHOUT generating hyper-inflation.
"The essence of all religions is one. Only their approaches are different." ~Mahatma Gandhi
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D dolemitejbHall of Famer
quote:
The GI bill is paid for with tax money. It provides loan guarantees for home buyers, it provides financial support for education, and it provides a limited medical plan as well. We, as a nation, pay taxes to provide that for the people who took up arms to keep this nation secure.


Ok, fine I guess. That's really only a small drop in the bucket though. The GI Bill isn't the source of the deficit.

quote:
Another set of problematic programs is the Research and Development budget for the Department of Agriculture, and the subsidies that make farming possible and profitable in a highly competitive world market. We EAT because we provide financial aid to farmers and corporate farms.


No. Most of that money goes to huge agri-business in the form of subsidies.

quote:
Government spending, almost every nickle of government spending goes for paying for either products produced by working men and women, or it goes directly to pay the salaries of working men and women. Nearly every penny of government spending creates or sustains a job.

DEFICIT spending creates inflation as well as jobs. And the great challenge of the present economic recovery effort is about generating economic activity WITHOUT generating hyper-inflation.


Broken window fallacy. Look into it.
Fighting IlliniFighting IlliniHall of Famer
"If we were "Taxed Enough Already" we would not have a deficit. Revenues would be as high as expenditures."

That statement is completely false. Revenues and expenditures are independent of each other in the government's eyes.


"Government spending, almost every nickle of government spending goes for paying for either products produced by working men and women, or it goes directly to pay the salaries of working men and women. Nearly every penny of government spending creates or sustains a job."

Another false statement. What about all of the federal tax dollars that go towards public aid and welfare and unemployment, for that matter. The majority of those who benefit are not working or have never worked.
ferrelljferrelljOld Faithful
Obviously we are on different sides of the fence. Thank you for your service, I have 2 sons serving right now. I do feel we are "Taxed Enough Already". We have a deficit because of out of control spending by the federal government. The TEA party movement are very supportive of the troops and would not support lowering any benefits to our military personal. The government does more to harm to farmers than it does help. The farmers are taxed to death. It is not a good use of taxpayer money to pay a farmer NOT to plant a crop. You keep mentioning WE HAVE A DEFICIT. It is not from a lack of taxation, it is from out of control government waste.
quote:
Government spending, almost every nickle of government spending goes for paying for either products produced by working men and women, or it goes directly to pay the salaries of working men and women. Nearly every penny of government spending creates or sustains a job.

Absolutely not true. Please provide some proof to that statement.
J JugflierHall of Famer
Karl,
Rest assured I will not be threatening you.
I'm an not a right wing nut, nor a left one, I'm a constitutionalist.
The tax issue is only a small portion of the problems we face.
Corporate welfare cost us more money every year than any other single welfare type agency.

We are giving huge corporations huge tax incentives to move their factories overseas, and rewarding these companies with little taxation from the profits of same.

We are entering into trade agreements that sell out the American standard of living.

We are allowing an uncontrolled influx of illegal immigrants who are stressing our social services beyond the breaking point.

We have a government who has been bought by the super rich and is no longer responsive to the people.

We have a private banking corporation who has siezed control of our money. Issues currency to foreign banks without congressional approval, uses money they print to buy up gold on the international market, creates inflation by doing so, and leaves the American taxpayer on the hook to pay for it.

We have the military industrial complex firmly entrenched in our intelligence comunities going about the globe selling drugs, trafficing in child sex rings, committing murders and trying to destabilize nations. They almost got us in a war with Russia 2 years ago.

These are only a few of the problems we face. We had better wake up, the end of this experiment that began in 1776 is near if we don't.
J JOY4567Hall of Famer
quote:
Think about this: "If we were "Taxed Enough Already" we would not have a deficit. Revenues would be as high as expenditures.


Wrong. Amazingly wrong. We are simply, as a country, spending more money than we make. We need to reduce spending.

If you want to pay more taxes, write the US Government a check and refuse any tax refund you may receive.
ferrelljferrelljOld Faithful
In my household when I have a month where I come up short on income I just call my boss and he gives me a raise. Next month I'm short again and I call my boss and he gives me a raise. Next month I'm short again and I call my boss and he gives me a raise. Next month I'm short again and I call my boss and he gives me a raise.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this story?
P PigheadedSmall Talker
quote:
Originally posted by Jugflier:
Karl,
Rest assured I will not be threatening you.
I'm an not a right wing nut, nor a left one, I'm a constitutionalist.
The tax issue is only a small portion of the problems we face.
Corporate welfare cost us more money every year than any other single welfare type agency.

We are giving huge corporations huge tax incentives to move their factories overseas, and rewarding these companies with little taxation from the profits of same.

We are entering into trade agreements that sell out the American standard of living.

We are allowing an uncontrolled influx of illegal immigrants who are stressing our social services beyond the breaking point.

We have a government who has been bought by the super rich and is no longer responsive to the people.

We have a private banking corporation who has siezed control of our money. Issues currency to foreign banks without congressional approval, uses money they print to buy up gold on the international market, creates inflation by doing so, and leaves the American taxpayer on the hook to pay for it.

We have the military industrial complex firmly entrenched in our intelligence comunities going about the globe selling drugs, trafficing in child sex rings, committing murders and trying to destabilize nations. They almost got us in a war with Russia 2 years ago.

These are only a few of the problems we face. We had better wake up, the end of this experiment that began in 1776 is near if we don't.


What he said.
J JOY4567Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
In my household when I have a month where I come up short on income I just call my boss and he gives me a raise. Next month I'm short again and I call my boss and he gives me a raise. Next month I'm short again and I call my boss and he gives me a raise. Next month I'm short again and I call my boss and he gives me a raise.

Does anyone see anything wrong with this story?

Exactly. If I constantly spend more money than I make, I KNOW there are problems on the horizon. I have to 'cut back' -- not keep spending like crazy.
K kperk014Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by JOY4567:
quote:
Think about this: "If we were "Taxed Enough Already" we would not have a deficit. Revenues would be as high as expenditures.


Wrong. Amazingly wrong. We are simply, as a country, spending more money than we make. We need to reduce spending.

If you want to pay more taxes, write the US Government a check and refuse any tax refund you may receive.


See he's so ignorant as to the fact that there are millions of liberal dimocrats who "aren't taxed at all." What about them? Shouldn't they have to pull the wagon for a while instead of freeloading on it?
elinterventor01elinterventor01Post Master
The projected deficit will require $600 billion in interest in the future. That is not sustainable.

Money is oxygen in the business world. For every dollar the government absorbs, that's a dollar that doesn't go to business.

Government spending absorbs money without generating profits. Spend $100 million on a government project and perhaps, $10 million will be returned in taxes from individual incomes tax. Increase government spending significantly and you create a death spiral.
CageTheElephantCageTheElephantPost Master
quote:
I have been away, after being threatened with a visit from a platoon of Army Rangers, or Air Force Air Traffic Controllers, I have forgotten which, It seemed wise to ignore the Rabid Radical Right Babble that makes up a lot of this forum, Plus, I got my life back though the ministrations of a federal health care system available only to former members of the Military Services. The Montgomery GI Bill, the law that saved my life, was signed into law by Lyndon Johnson, and provides medical care to all honorably discharged veterans. Thanks America.

I would say...you're still "away"...far, far, "away".
NashBamaNashBamaOld Faithful
quote:
Think about this: "If we were "Taxed Enough Already" we would not have a deficit. Revenues would be as high as expenditures.


Not really.

Let's say you made $50,000 a year, but only needed $40,000 a year to live comfortably, yet you spent $80,000 a year by using credit cards and getting brand new cars.

The problem isn't that you aren't making enough, the problem is that you're spending too much.

The same is true with the government. It's not that we aren't taxed enough, it's that the government is spending more than what it should.

quote:
The GI bill is paid for with tax money. It provides loan guarantees for home buyers, it provides financial support for education, and it provides a limited medical plan as well. We, as a nation, pay taxes to provide that for the people who took up arms to keep this nation secure.


I agree with this. Those who choose to serve our country should be taken care of. I have no problem using tax money to help soldiers and veterans and their families.

quote:
Government spending, almost every nickle of government spending goes for paying for either products produced by working men and women, or it goes directly to pay the salaries of working men and women. Nearly every penny of government spending creates or sustains a job.


That's not true.

If the government spends $500 for a hammer, you can still say every nickel of government money went to purchasing a product. However, it's obviously wasteful.

Projects like Boston's Big Dig or Alaska's Bridge to Nowhere or Mississippi's Railroad to the Casinos are funded by the government but incredibly wasteful.

The more money the government wastes on these projects, the more it needs to fund things that are actually necessary. The solution is to reduce the amount of wasteful spending, then the government can operate properly without having to increase taxes or borrow money from other countries.

quote:
DEFICIT spending creates inflation as well as jobs. And the great challenge of the present economic recovery effort is about generating economic activity WITHOUT generating hyper-inflation.


The trick to generating economic activity is to get the government out of the situation.

In Tennessee just before the new school year starts, there is a tax free weekend. There is no sales tax on clothing, electronics, school supplies, and other select items. You would think that it was the day after Thanksgiving, stores have huge sales, the parking lots are full, people are spending money.

When the government wastes money, raises taxes, lets inflation get out of control, and the dollar becomes devalued because of the growing debt, it cripples the economy. Take the latest stimulus for example. It's been a year since that was approved, has it fixed anything?
K kperk014Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by Jugflier:
quote:
I also agree with Jugflier's point about Corporate Welfare. White Collar Crime also costs the US Tax Payer.



Yeah, in the last year somewhere around 14 trillion.


Most that was probably caused by dimocrat policies that caused the banking people to get in so much trouble so you can thank bonnie fwank, chris dudd and a whole lot of big city dim mayors.
elinterventor01elinterventor01Post Master
quote:
Another set of problematic programs is the Research and Development budget for the Department of Agriculture, and the subsidies that make farming possible and profitable in a highly competitive world market. We EAT because we provide financial aid to farmers and corporate farms.


Paying agricultural subsidies, that is, taking money from citizens to give to agri-businesses is the stuff of K Street lobbyists, not supporting farms. The funds go to corporations and not to small farms. thus, destroying the family farms that the Dems purportedly so love.

In Europe, I saw subsidy of small farms, hay cut by hand and stacked on tripods to cure. Plonk wines grown, that would not sell and were eventually distilled to make ethanol. Mountains of butter and other commodities were destroyed.
elinterventor01elinterventor01Post Master
"We have the military industrial complex firmly entrenched in our intelligence comunities going about the globe selling drugs, trafficing in child sex rings, committing murders and trying to destabilize nations. They almost got us in a war with Russia 2 years ago."

I fear, you have the US military mixed up with the UN blue helmets. In the Balkans, they UN troops became the chief sponsors of human trafficking and drug smuggling.

Murders, NO! Legally killing terrorists, YES! The propaganda about drugs and sex rings was the work of Soviet KGB disinformation bureau propaganda which the Western left swallowed whole -- and apparently, still is.

The worst child trafficking rings are in Belgium as Howard Rourke pointed out several times.

As to the supposed war with Russia, NO! Russian used all its military might to bully Georgia and take a couple of small provinces way from that nation. Meanwhile, new violence in Chechnya and Dagistan encourage ethnic Russians to evacuate the area, leaving them to radical muslims -- cut off nose to spite face!

That invasion took the entire effort of the Russian military. They are that weak. Without nukes, the Russ couldn't stand up to the Indians or Chinese.

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