Truths Mormons believe

The Book of Mormon is a second witness that Jesus is our Savior. It also clarifies the Bible and puts back truths that men have changed in the Bible or removed from it.

Let me follow up on that last line.  IF the Book of Mormon puts back truths that men have "changed" in the Bible, or removed from it.  What do you, or the Mormons believe was changed or removed?  I do realize that the only authorized Old/New Testament you use or accept is the King James Version so are these "changes" or omissions you refer to actually more contemporary translations of Scripture?  In asking I'm not trying to trap you as I think you will expect that I don't share the same belief or opinion but in an effort to better understand and clarify your statement to Semi I would be interested in that answer.

Hi all,

Dwight tells us, "The Book of Mormon is a second witness that Jesus is our Savior.  It also clarifies the Bible and puts back truths that men have changed in the Bible or removed from it."

Yet, the apostle Paul tells us, very clearly, in Galatians 1:6-9, "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a  different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the Gospel of Christ.  But even if we, or anangel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!  As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel  contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!"

So, here we have the apostle Paul, who clearly taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ throughout the known world for many years --  telling us that if ANYONE, even a false angel from heaven named Moroni, should preach a different gospel than the Gospel of Jesus  Christ which Paul taught -- let him be accursed.

Dwight, so much for your second witness, or second gospel.  Jesus Christ does not need a second gospel -- for the Gospel we read in the Bible, God's full revelation to mankind -- is very sufficient for man's salvation -- the purpose for the Gospel.

The Mormon church teaches a "different gospel" and is therefore a CULT religion.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Of course, you know you will be judged by one especially on this forum & will be judged as belonging to a cult. Thankfully, he is not the one that will judge you, me, or any of us in the end.

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

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See, did I not tell you.

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But how do you know the Book of Mormon is correct?

I followed the teachings in the Bible in the epistle of James 1st chapter 5th and 6th verses.

The part of him being "judged as belonging to cult" is because the fact is that lds is a cult, they do not follow the Bible but prefer to follow what was written by Joseph Smith who was their founder and also a child molester who in 1832 was tarred and feathered by his own followers over two issues, one was a scam to rip them off out of their property and the other because the pervert was caught boi*k*ng the 15 year old daughter of the person who was boarding him. Anyway, there is no shortage of documentation about the antics of Smith and 1st his successor, Brigham Young along with other early leaders such as Rigdon and Strang. It is clear that Smith was out for power, he conned people out of everything they owned, moved them out west away from their families and the rest of society so that they would not be able to simply leave when they caught on to his crap and where it was easier to control them. Him and his favored men were able to take as many wives as they pleased which had little or nothing to do with the consent of the women or in many case little girls.

 The mormons also do not believe in only one God but prefer to believe Smith's crap that there is a counsel of Gods and that if a person follows Smith and his teachings that they too can become Gods and get their very own planet. Smith even went as far as to insinuate that he was more important than Jesus.

The foundation of their religion is nothing but vile & disgusting lies that bears no resemblance to Christianity.

With the above said, most mormons that I know are decent people, I never try to "convert" those who are mormon or jw because I know that there is nothing I can do to reach them except to answer a freindly question here and there but I would let those who are pondering the idea have piece of my opinion and lay out some of the above facts for them.

I once took the time to actually read the "Book of Morman" that I had "borrowed" from a room in a Marriott hotel.

It kinda reminded me of reading J R Tolkien's story of the "Hobbit". Tolkien could not find a scenario in the world that fit his story line, so he created his own "universe" in which the Hobbit lived. Later on the Smirfs kinda brought the same feeling to mind. (sorry Poppa Smirff - no offience intended here)

At any rate. the "Book of Morman" seemed to be a story of people I have never heard of, going on a journey I never heard of, and finding a mysterious land I never heard of , MAYBE the Americas.

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Enjouyable reading, but I didn't see anything in it that would cause me to consider it an equal to the Cannon Holy Bible.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Thank you for your thoughts!

Interesting take on things you have there and I wont try to take it from you !

One very important thing is the true relationship between God and man and also the true nature of God, also that Jesus has a body of flesh and bones in Heaven, to mention a few.

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Does that mean you can't or won't dispute what I highlighted in bold print?

I know that it is untrue and made up. You can find it all on the ANTI Mormon sites. It keeps resurfacing because people love dirt and will repeat it quicker than good news. Over the past 36 years I have heard it over and over. If you asked them if they prayed to GOD for an answer if it is true or false, they say they dont have to pray about it because it is true. I pray to GOD to know the truth of everything. Satan teaches all people not to pray and that it isnt necessary.

   over the years I have gone to and read the Anti Mormon sites and also, the teachings of the Mormon church. I have done as it tells in the Bible in James 1:5-6 and received answers to my prayers about much of the stuff.  I know Joseph Smithb was a TRUE Prophet of GOD that JESUS CHRIST used to restore His true Organization through and gave him His POWER and AUTHORITY to perform the SAVING ORDINANCES for the people of this earth. That is why so many lies out there, Satan doesn't want the people to know these truths so he can prevent them from RETURNING to the presence of our Heavenly Father.

      So, I wont try to convence people, that are against the truth, anything, I cannot. The Holy Ghost is the only one that can convert anyone and HE alone is the wittnesser of all truth.

So you are saying that everything I wrote was untrue and made up but even though some of what I wrote has been conditioned out of you, you should be well aware that what I wrote about mormon beliefs were accurate and openly exclaimed by mormons, you do put the writtings of Smith above the Bible, you have even said in posts above that Smith corrected "flaws" in the Bible with the book of mormon. Your outfit does believe that there is more than one God and that Smith's followers can become Gods themselves, are you going to deny that you believe that male lds members are able to eventually become Gods? Do you believe that God was once a man just like us and progressed to become a God? Do you believe God is nothing more than an exhalted man? Do you believe that polygamy is permitted for males after this life?

One more little question, are you conditioned to mention the Tanners or "anti mormons" in every debate that exposes the mormon outfit for what it really is?

BTW, Missouri is considered the west and Smith did lead many of his followers there, he was assasinated in Illinois by what were a few days before members of his outfit but a couple of them were pretty ticked that Smith planned to take their wives.

Now going by memory, let me see if I got this right:

First he led his members from NY to Ohio, then to MO where they took over an entire county and even ran people off with violent threats who did not adhere to the beliefs they demanded but people had enough there and ran his tail out of the state so Smith made his way to Illinois with what folks he could con into following. It's too late to look all that up for accuracy as I need to get to bed so someone correct me if I am wrong about the places he dragged his followers around to or the order he did it in.

Hi Dwight,

Just curious.  Is there a reason you like avatars which show young boys and young men -- dancing in their skivvies?

As I said, just curious.  Bill

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Wooly, I'm curious about your answer to this one. I think you skipped over it unless I missed it?

What any of you believe has zero effect on reality.

I can see as where I worded that badly, I did not mean to make it seem that they "came in with guns blaring", what I was trying to show is that they pretty much bought up the land in the counties and built their cities so as to keep membership isolated & easier to control. My reference to violent threats were meant as what happened to the few that were not mormon living in the area who refused to become mormon and what happened to those who either wanted to leave the cult or were excommunicated. Those people were forced to move by threat of violence, the mormons even openly boasted that they would be taking the land that belonged to the current settlers because Joseph Smith had told them that God  wanted them to have it which is a big part of what spawned the mormon war of 1838 (not to be confused with the other two mormon wars).

So anyway, no,  they didn't come in with guns blazing, they showed up sorta nice and settled in a little before whipping out the guns and knives (you do recall their practice of intimidating U.S. Soldiers with their knives don't you?)

Fred, that sounds like every church in the world. They all buy up land, or talk people into giving it to the church in their wills. And they all act the same way towards others that don't believe like they do. Seriously, what's the difference?

 BILL< you see what you want to see, The first avtar was a BABY in a diaper, this one is a young black man in WHITE SHORTS. Now tell me Bill, why do you always see men and young boys in their underwear in the avatars?????

I havent mentioned the Tanners unless someone presents them as " MORMON EXPERTS".  Conditioned? No,  I have read whet they have to say and prayed about their message and see it for what it is, a means to take people away from the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and His message.. I don't have a " MORMON OUTFIT"' I am a member of the church of JESUS CHRIST

The part of him being "judged as belonging to cult" is because the fact is that lds is a cult, they do not follow the Bible but prefer to follow what was written by Joseph Smith who was their founder and also a child molester who in 1832 was tarred and feathered by his own followers over two issues, one was a scam to rip them off out of their property and the other because the pervert was caught boi*k*ng the 15 year old daughter of the person who was boarding him.

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Gosh fred, how about all the other preachers and church leaders caught boinking young girls AND boys? How about the ones having affairs with church members and killing their spouses? What about all the ones scamming people out of their money and land right now? It's a shame we can't tar and feather them. Fred, name one denomination that doesn't do that- yet they claim all the others are cults??? Odd.

The Tanners (Jerald and Sandra) have been mentioned several times above.  The Tanners are ex-Mormons who have compiled, form many historical documents (many of which theLDSChurchwould like to have disappeared) an enormous volume of well-documented, well-annotated information on the history and doctrines of theLDSChurch.  Mormons try to discredit the work of the Tanners and other ex-Mormons) by asserting one or more of the following devious marguments:

1) They are just sour grapes folks with an ax to grind.

2) They are not a proper source for Mormon information; ask a Mormon if you need information about the Mormon Church.

3) The truth does not lie with the Tanners or any other persons or sources.  The way to know the truth is to ask God if something is true and He will tell you if it is.

No 1, above obviously has nothing to do with the accuracy or authenticity of the work of any Mormon critic.

No. 2, above, obviously runs 180 degrees counter to any responsible systematic for  critical examination.  It equates to an insistence that one can learn all one needs to know about a belief system solely from the adherents to and partisans for that system.  Extended to politics, for example, this kind of rationale would insist that the way to learn about communism would be to rely entirely on communist sources.

No.3, above, is an old standard dodge used by Mormons to evade any reasonable obligation to defend an indefensible position.  I have challenged Mormon missionaries on doctrinal matters  in which they could not offer any valid defense.  While conceding that they had no answer, they nevertheless obstinately held to their doctrine on grounds that they had prayed to God to tell them whether the Mormon Church was the true church and whether Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.and that God had answered affirmatively on both points.  This emotionally-based, intellectually-depauperate defense equates to saying, “God told me I was right about that; therefore I am right.”  It is a favorite refuge of religious charlatans and poseurs. 

The Tanners (Jerald--now deceased--and Sandra--still active) have been mentioned several times above.  The Tanners are ex-Mormons who have compiled, form many historical documents (many of which theLDSChurchwould like to have disappeared) an enormous volume of well-documented, well-annotated information on the history and doctrines of theLDSChurch.  Mormons try to discredit the work of the Tanners and other ex-Mormons) by asserting one or more of the following devious marguments:

1) They are just sour grapes folks with an ax to grind.

2) They are not a proper source for Mormon information; ask a Mormon if you need information about the Mormon Church.

3) The truth does not lie with the Tanners or any other persons or sources.  The way to know the truth is to ask God if something is true and He will tell you if it is.

No 1, above obviously has nothing to do with the accuracy or authenticity of the work of any Mormon critic.

No. 2, above, obviously runs 180 degrees counter to any responsible systematic for  critical examination.  It equates to an insistence that one can learn all one needs to know about a belief system solely from the adherents to and partisans for that system.  Extended to politics, for example, this kind of rationale would insist that the way to learn about communism would be to rely entirely on communist sources.

No.3, above, is an old standard dodge used by Mormons to evade any reasonable obligation to defend an indefensible position.  I have challenged Mormon missionaries on doctrinal and historical matters  for which they could not offer any valid defense.  While conceding that they had no answer, they nevertheless obstinately held to their doctrine on grounds that they had prayed to God to tell them whether the Mormon Church was the true church and whether Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and that God had answered them affirmatively on both points.  This emotionally-based, intellectually-depauperate defense equates to saying, “God told me I was right about that; therefore I am right.”  

The monumental work of the Tanners,’ “The Changing World of Mormonism,” and other books exposing Mormonism for the fraud that it is, are available free online at:

http://www.utlm.org/navonlinebooks.htm

Those desiring the truth about Mormonism are well-advised to take advantage of the wealth of information in these sources!

But you have mentioned the "anti mormons" which is something you didn't address in the question so I will ask again:

Are you and most other mormons conditioned to blow off anything said in a debate that exposes the disgusting acts of the lds founders as coming from anti mormon groups? Even the well documented cases?

Now this is something that I just personally wonder about, are mormons anti American? I just wondered since you fellas went to war against the US gov't in 1857 and most of the mormons including Brigham Young who resided in the Utah territory were actually charged with treason but were pardoned as part of the peace agreement in 1858. I am just wondering if the sentiment toward the USA had changed in the last 150 years and thought I would bring up what made me curious about the subject.

Yea, and how about japan and germany, the south and north, the native americans? Are they still p*****? hmmmmmm

Since when where Japan and Germany a part of the USA? We cannot consider either of them or the Native Americans as treasonous. As for the South, I would think that you should be well aware of some of the redneck sentiment towards the old CSA  that is still in this area. 

German American Internment refers to the detention of people of German citizenship in the United States during World War I and World War II.

Japanese-American internment was the relocation and internment by the United States government in 1942 of approximately 110,000 Japanese Americans and Japanese who lived along the Pacific coast of the United States

I agree that wasn't worded right. You were talking about anti-American sentiment. The US hasn't always been nice to it's own citizens and a lot of things considered "treason" wasn't and a lot of innocent people have suffered just for being who they are.

As for being conditioned, I said earlier that I have read many Anti Mormon sites and prayed about their message. I have chosen to dissreguard it because of answers to my prayers. As for ANTI American, you will that some of the MOST patriatoc Americans are Mormons, I WILLINGLY CHOOSE to serve my country for 20 years, put your fears aside about us being anti Americam.  Anyone can be charged with anything, it dont make it true.

Uh, WoolyBugger, tell us if those boxer shorts on your spastic icon are an approved Mormon undergarment. The do not seem to be anything like the ones shown here:

http://toddanthonydirect.typep...-unmentionables.html

Unofficial information:  http://www.salamandersociety.com/temple/barbie/

Also, Bugger, can you explain why Utah, the state with by far the largest percentage of Mormons, is the state with the highest incidence of subscription to p ornography web sites?

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Business/story?id=6977202&page=1

"A new nationwide study (pdf) of anonymised credit-card receipts from a major online adult entertainment provider finds little variation in consumption between states.

"When it comes to adult entertainment, it seems people are more the same than different," says Benjamin Edelman at Harvard Business School.

However, there are some trends to be seen in the data. Those states that do consume the most **** tend to be more conservative and religious than states with lower levels of consumption, the study finds."

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"The biggest consumer, Utah, averaged 5.47 adult content subscriptions per 1000 home broadband users; Montana bought the least with 1.92 per 1000."

Hey I like the avatar. Nothing at all p o r n o graphic about it.

I never suggested that there was.  I was just trying to get Bugger to give me some information about those Sacred Skivvies and Blessed Brassieres!