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Interesting how these two sides view this one action. With the backdrop of ongoing forum discussions regarding limits of prayer in school and charities, I wonder which side of this tale, if any, do you believe is correct?

"USAF Academy Backs Down on Extremist Fundamentalist Charity"
http://www.militaryreligiousfr...damentalist-charity/

"Anti-Faith Group Stops Promotion of Children’s Charity"
http://aclj.org/american-herit...of-childrens-charity

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It's impossible to speak with force in a muffled voice from the closet

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I would not say that our Military men and women look foolish for standing up for the very constitution they take an oath to uphold. I guess when you are willing to put your life on the line for something you don't want to see it violated or misused by anyone.

 

I noticed that many of the cadets that complained were religious. Good for them. Just because you have a personal religious belief does not give you the right to force it on others or use the government to promote it. 

 

There are many good charities that do not attempt to use the government to promote their religious agenda that the USAF could get behind and support. 

 

Seems that once again many of the Christians in our country feel they should be able to violate the Constitution to further their doctrine. I am not surprised by that. We see more and more of them that are bent on turning this country into a theocracy. 

Why am I not surprised that they would ignore this part of the story:

 

Yesterday, we were contacted by 120 cadets and 12 faculty members — 132 total, out of whom 118 are of the Christian faith, either Protestant or Roman Catholic. They reported that senior Cadet Commanders were issuing memos to the entire Cadet Wing (USAFA student body) urging cadets to vigorously and enthusiastically participate in “Operation Christmas Child,” a project of internationally-infamous Islamophobe Franklin Graham’s Samaritan’s Purse organization. Ostensibly meant to bring a bit of “Christmas cheer” to children in disaster areas and war-stricken nations, this missionary program masquerading as an innocuous charity uses deliveries of toys and toiletries as a Trojan horse to sneak Graham’s fundamentalist Christian ministry of Jesus Christ into “heathen” nations such as Japan, Libya, Haiti, and Iraq.

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

Seems that once again many of the Christians in our country feel they should be able to violate the Constitution to further their doctrine. I am not surprised by that. We see more and more of them that are bent on turning this country into a theocracy. 

LOL...yeah, that's totally it, not.  No offense, but it's obvious none of you backing this quite laughable "stand' against Operation Christmas Child know anything about Operation Christmas Child or you would not join the silly stand...at least I HOPE that is the case & you're not just hating anything with the name Christian attached to it.

I did a google search to find "the rest of the story", Best...always a good idea when I find something really odd.  There seems to be more details in this one...

 

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=11768

 

It was an email which could easily be ignored (I do it all the time...lol), not a direct order to sign their name in blood.  Please.  BTW, 120 cadets & 12 faculty at this facility in Colorado Springs is rather miniscule.  Those are your crap starters.  Everyone loves those. *tongue firmly in cheek*

 

Sounds like it's been corrected, should have gone through the Chaplain's office & now it will.

 

Following Weinstein’s complaint, Brig. Gen. Richard Clarke, Commandant of the Cadets issued an apology saying, “This was an oversight by me that has been addressed and forwarded through the proper channels." Clark continued, "The cadets had nothing but good intentions, but this was something that should have started with the Chaplains, not the Cadet Wing. That doesn't mean the cadets can't volunteer for the Christmas toy drive. They can participate through the Cadet Chaplain Corps.”
Last edited by _Joy_

HUH? What has that got to do with the ones that complained? The article states that out of the 132 that complained 118 were christians. YET the ones that get the "heat" are the others. Look at easy's post.  And not one mention that the majority of the ones complaining were christians.

 

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The Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) – an anti-Christian, anti-faith group – is attempting to stop the Air Force Academy from promoting a charity that helps millions of children in 100 countries.

The MRFF is attempting to intimidate the Air Force Academy for sending an email to cadets, urging them to participate in Operation Christmas Child; participation by Air Force Academy cadets has been a long tradition at this prestigious school. This year, the MRFF filed a complaint and the Air Force Academy administration not only backed down but apologized for sending out the email, saying the request crossed the line and even represented religious intolerance because the humanitarian program is run by a Christian organization.

The U.S. Military must stand up to these intimidation tactics and not apologize to this extreme organization. Sign on to our letter urging the U.S. Military to tell the Military Religious Freedom Foundation to back off - there's no constitutional crisis in asking our military to help the less fortunate.

I'm sorry.  I find this whole thing completely ridiculous considering what actually happened.  The cadets were trying to do a good thing and did not go through proper channels.  The cadets have been told to make sure they go through the Chaplain's office from now on, which sounds a simple solution to a minor event.  Actually, it sounds like someone made a big deal out of a non-event to me.  From the article I posted...

 

The e-mail, which was not coercive, was sent by cadets to other cadets and asked for recipients to consider volunteering time and money to the drive.

 

“As the holidays approach, we have the opportunity to provide the joy of Christmas to impoverished children around the world,” the e-mail said “PLEASE, PLEASE CONSIDER SPENDING SOME OF YOUR VALUABLE TIME AND MONEY TO LOVE ON A KID AROUND THE WORLD!!.”

I don't have a problem with someone contacting the school, letting them know these kids are not going through proper channels and to please correct it.  I do have a problem with someone making a big deal out of some college kids with good intentions failing to go through proper channels.  That Weinstein fellow seems a bit nutty.  College kids send the non-coercive email I posted above and he calls it "a national security threat” and calls Graham “a total enemy of the Constitution”.  Can we say overkill?  Wow.

Originally Posted by _Joy_:

You keep mentioning that, but I guess I missed the overkill argument against the few that complained.  Where is it?

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Why are we suprised? The atheists have never fed the hungry, clothed the naked, treated the sick, built a hospital, ryn a soup kitchen or done anything to improve the condition of man. They only go around trying to stop others from doing it. Could this not be called "Ultimate Wickedness"?

 

 

 

LOL...yeah, that's totally it, not.  No offense, but it's obvious none of you backing this quite laughable "stand' against Operation Christmas Child know anything about Operation Christmas Child or you would not join the silly stand...at least I HOPE that is the case & you're not just hating anything with the name Christian attached to it.

 

Originally Posted by Extra-260:

Why are we suprised? The atheists have never fed the hungry, clothed the naked, treated the sick, built a hospital, ryn a soup kitchen or done anything to improve the condition of man. They only go around trying to stop others from doing it. Could this not be called "Ultimate Wickedness"?

_________________________________

Why do you not answer sincere questions?

I would love to know what you have against Atheist & if you are a Pastor? Those questions are not meant to start any kind of argument, I just want to know.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Why am I not surprised that they would ignore this part of the story:

 

Yesterday, we were contacted by 120 cadets and 12 faculty members — 132 total, out of whom 118 are of the Christian faith, either Protestant or Roman Catholic. They reported that senior Cadet Commanders were issuing memos to the entire Cadet Wing (USAFA student body) urging cadets to vigorously and enthusiastically participate in “Operation Christmas Child,” a project of internationally-infamous Islamophobe Franklin Graham’s Samaritan’s Purse organization. Ostensibly meant to bring a bit of “Christmas cheer” to children in disaster areas and war-stricken nations, this missionary program masquerading as an innocuous charity uses deliveries of toys and toiletries as a Trojan horse to sneak Graham’s fundamentalist Christian ministry of Jesus Christ into “heathen” nations such as Japan, Libya, Haiti, and Iraq.

 

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 Ohh yes, It is sooooooooo evil to try to bring hope to someone who might need it, and those EVIL Christians, trying to spread Christmas cheer, that is the "Ultimate Wickedness".

 

 Now Jennifer/Best this is your oportunity for your atheist organization to spread the cheer and hope of nothing around the world. Lets see it, The Atheist International League, bringing shoe boxes worldwide with nothing in them. That should do nicely, when do you start?

 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by Extra-260:

Why are we suprised? The atheists have never fed the hungry, clothed the naked, treated the sick, built a hospital, ryn a soup kitchen or done anything to improve the condition of man. They only go around trying to stop others from doing it. Could this not be called "Ultimate Wickedness"?

_________________________________

Why do you not answer sincere questions?

I would love to know what you have against Atheist & if you are a Pastor? Those questions are not meant to start any kind of argument, I just want to know.

 

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 Because I ignore bitter old ladies.

 

I assume Extra did not read the article...don't know...he can answer that himself.

 

What you quoted from me was not directed at the non-Christians on the complaint...it was written to forum members, thus the "you're" in that last sentence.

 

I wonder how many of those who signed the complaint wanted to muzzle Weinstein before they were done.  That may be wishful thinking on my part.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Why do you not answer sincere questions?

I would love to know what you have against Atheist & if you are a Pastor? Those questions are not meant to start any kind of argument, I just want to know.

 

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Originally Posted by Extra-260: 

 Because I ignore bitter old ladies.

______________________________

You call me bitter & this coming from a Pastor? Is that the best you can do?

Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.            

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I don't think extra reads anything and if he does he can't comprehend what he's read. He posts over and over about how churches help the poor with food, clothing, medical help and other things yet keeps the names of those churches a secret and asks atheists for help. He seems to have a problem with the truth.

___________________________

Strikes me as one that wouldn't know the truth if it walked up & bit him on the ass. And the man claims to be a Pastor! Sheeish!!!

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Why do you not answer sincere questions?

I would love to know what you have against Atheist & if you are a Pastor? Those questions are not meant to start any kind of argument, I just want to know.

 

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Originally Posted by Extra-260: 

 Because I ignore bitter old ladies.

______________________________

You call me bitter & this coming from a Pastor? Is that the best you can do?

Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.            

_______________________

 

Semi, I do believe that Extra hates all atheist. I don't know why and I really don't care. He is a fine example of Christian love and compassion, don't ya think. He can't stick to the subject and he runs all over the forum jabbing and fetching. Coward. This is how those that know their argument is weak handle a debate. He has been told and shown atheist charities that do all the things he says they don't. Feed the hungry, cloth the poor, etc..yet he just keeps up his lie to the contrary by moving it to another thread. 

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Why do you not answer sincere questions?

I would love to know what you have against Atheist & if you are a Pastor? Those questions are not meant to start any kind of argument, I just want to know.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Extra-260: 

 Because I ignore bitter old ladies.

______________________________

You call me bitter & this coming from a Pastor? Is that the best you can do?

Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.            

_______________________

 

Semi, I do believe that Extra hates all atheist. I don't know why and I really don't care. He is a fine example of Christian love and compassion, don't ya think. He can't stick to the subject and he runs all over the forum jabbing and fetching. Coward. This is how those that know their argument is weak handle a debate. He has been told and shown atheist charities that do all the things he says they don't. Feed the hungry, cloth the poor, etc..yet he just keeps up his lie to the contrary by moving it to another thread. 

 

 

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 You got the name of those atheist benevolent doctors yet?

 

Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

Semi, I do believe that Extra hates all atheist. I don't know why and I really don't care. He is a fine example of Christian love and compassion, don't ya think. He can't stick to the subject and he runs all over the forum jabbing and fetching. Coward. This is how those that know their argument is weak handle a debate. He has been told and shown atheist charities that do all the things he says they don't. Feed the hungry, cloth the poor, etc..yet he just keeps up his lie to the contrary by moving it to another thread. 

__________________________________

He's a pitiful human being for sure. I suggest we all ignore him from this point on.

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by DarkAngel:

Semi, I do believe that Extra hates all atheist. I don't know why and I really don't care. He is a fine example of Christian love and compassion, don't ya think. He can't stick to the subject and he runs all over the forum jabbing and fetching. Coward. This is how those that know their argument is weak handle a debate. He has been told and shown atheist charities that do all the things he says they don't. Feed the hungry, cloth the poor, etc..yet he just keeps up his lie to the contrary by moving it to another thread. 

__________________________________

He's a pitiful human being for sure. I suggest we all ignore him from this point on.

 

 Please do, I want you to ignore me and never address me again .

 

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