The war is lost So Mr.Reid care to rethink your statement?
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Now Ged, you know he was in front of the cameras and he had to do some Bush bashing!
But remember, the liberals were rooting for the US to win the whole time. They just forgot to SAY IT!
But remember, the liberals were rooting for the US to win the whole time. They just forgot to SAY IT!
The war never was lost or won simply just pointless and an overall loss for most just as Vietnam
Let`s see 50 million people are free and have elections now.Sounds pretty pointless.
Pointless to the families of the over 4 thousand soldiers dead and over 100 thousand dead iraqis
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wouldn't be as big a problem for us or others if Saddam Hussein was still in power
Are you sure about that statement.Remember the troops volunteer to serve.We do not have a draft like we did in Vietnam and other wars.Now where did you get your numbers for the dead Iraqis?I would like to know.
OK, Roscoe, where are the 100,000 dead Iraqis and what did they die of?
I've seen a couple of the mass graves Saddam left behind. However, nothing like that while I was in Iraq.
I've seen a couple of the mass graves Saddam left behind. However, nothing like that while I was in Iraq.
Roscoe,
Do you also believe those who died in WWII died for nothing, also? Their families and most of the country disagrees.
Do you also believe those who died in WWII died for nothing, also? Their families and most of the country disagrees.
WW2 was not a mistake,Vietnam and the current Iraq situation were both mistakes.Reid was wrong the war was not and will not be lost but at the same time the United States is not better off for it
quote:Originally posted by Rosco P. Coltrane:
Pointless to the families of the over 4 thousand soldiers dead and over 100 thousand dead iraqis
If we run up the white flag of surrender, THEN they will have died in vain. I hope you boobs will remember that. These young men and women enlisted, they weren't drafted. Poople like you gave the enemy the encouragement to keep fighting and killing your own soldiers. Maybe there will be a special hearing on Judgement Day for folks like you. (I hope)
thank you, geddon and your brothers and sisters in arms, for your service.
your service is not now and will never be pointless. i'm sure the iraqis who are now free would tell you the same thing.
your service is not now and will never be pointless. i'm sure the iraqis who are now free would tell you the same thing.
Thanks Hoss but there are others more deserving than me.I`m just a simple mechanic.Zipp,and the other guys are the real heroes.
all who serve are heroes in my book! and that includes you. 
Was blew the dog reincarnated as roscoe?
quote:Originally posted by kperk:quote:Originally posted by Rosco P. Coltrane:
Pointless to the families of the over 4 thousand soldiers dead and over 100 thousand dead iraqis
If we run up the white flag of surrender, THEN they will have died in vain. I hope you boobs will remember that. These young men and women enlisted, they weren't drafted. Poople like you gave the enemy the encouragement to keep fighting and killing your own soldiers. Maybe there will be a special hearing on Judgement Day for folks like you. (I hope)
First no soldier ever dies in vain
Second i never said we should now leave Iraq
The fact is we never should have been there
The objective in Vietnam was never met and still no soldier died in vain
quote:Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
Was blew the dog reincarnated as roscoe?
Whoever it is, how dare they besmirch a legendary lawman like Roscoe P. Coltrane.
I never really showed it but i cared for Luke although Bo was a no good scalawag
As Ron Paul said we had no business in Iraq
quote:Originally posted by Rosco P. Coltrane:
As Ron Paul said we had no business in Iraq
He was right about some things but wrong about others.
The tea parties have showed we are sick of this wasteful spending
quote:Originally posted by Rosco P. Coltrane:
The tea parties have showed we are sick of this wasteful spending
Over-spending is the key. Always has been, always will be.
quote:Originally posted by Rosco P. Coltrane:
The objective i Vietnam was never met and still no soldier died in vain
You might have to ask some vietnam vets about that. They are still bitter that the war was fought in a way that dragged it out and didn't give them a chance to win.
roscoe p coltrain... obviously a troll just trying to grind my gears,, not happening this morning try again tommorow
"Was blew the dog reincarnated as roscoe?"
And, which Boss Hog does he answer to!
I noticed he didn't answer Interventor's query on the 100,000 Iraqi dead. I've seen even more of the mass graves than he, as part of my job. I, too, would like to know where these dead are located and methods of their demise.
And, which Boss Hog does he answer to!
I noticed he didn't answer Interventor's query on the 100,000 Iraqi dead. I've seen even more of the mass graves than he, as part of my job. I, too, would like to know where these dead are located and methods of their demise.
Link
I found this. I don't know if this helps answer any questions about how many Iraqis have died but to me too many on both sides have died for all the wrong reasons. I have 2 family memebers in Iraq and I support them completely. They are very brave young men and I have them in my thoughts every day. However I don't agree with why they are there. You don't have to believe that the war is justified to support the men and women who were sent there. This is America, we not only have the right I believe we have the responsibility to question any war our leaders get us into. Maybe if more Germans had voiced their opinions and not followed blindly behind their leader WW11 would not have happened.
Tell me again why we are there? Weapons of Mass destruction.....Links to Osama...those were the original reason we went into Iraq...none of it proved to be true.
Yes I support the men and women doing a job that they were sent to do and doing it well, but they should never have been ask to make this sacrifice based on lies and greed.
I found this. I don't know if this helps answer any questions about how many Iraqis have died but to me too many on both sides have died for all the wrong reasons. I have 2 family memebers in Iraq and I support them completely. They are very brave young men and I have them in my thoughts every day. However I don't agree with why they are there. You don't have to believe that the war is justified to support the men and women who were sent there. This is America, we not only have the right I believe we have the responsibility to question any war our leaders get us into. Maybe if more Germans had voiced their opinions and not followed blindly behind their leader WW11 would not have happened.
Tell me again why we are there? Weapons of Mass destruction.....Links to Osama...those were the original reason we went into Iraq...none of it proved to be true.
Yes I support the men and women doing a job that they were sent to do and doing it well, but they should never have been ask to make this sacrifice based on lies and greed.
quote:Originally posted by beth:
Tell me again why we are there? Weapons of Mass destruction.....Links to Osama...those were the original reason we went into Iraq...none of it proved to be true.
I suppose you consider this to be untrue?
Yellow Cake Uranium in Iraq
550 metric tons of concentrated uranium seems to me to qualify as a weapon of mass destruction, if nothing else is ever found.
Al Qaeda was and most certainly is in Iraq.
Al Qaeda in Iraq
quote:Originally posted by beth:
Link
I found this. I don't know if this helps answer any questions about how many Iraqis have died but to me too many on both sides have died for all the wrong reasons. I have 2 family memebers in Iraq and I support them completely. They are very brave young men and I have them in my thoughts every day. However I don't agree with why they are there. You don't have to believe that the war is justified to support the men and women who were sent there. This is America, we not only have the right I believe we have the responsibility to question any war our leaders get us into. Maybe if more Germans had voiced their opinions and not followed blindly behind their leader WW11 would not have happened.
Tell me again why we are there? Weapons of Mass destruction.....Links to Osama...those were the original reason we went into Iraq...none of it proved to be true.
Yes I support the men and women doing a job that they were sent to do and doing it well, but they should never have been ask to make this sacrifice based on lies and greed.
Bush was going on the SAME intelligence as congress and the president before him, who gave an impassioned speech about the threat from iraq because of their weapons of mass destruction. If you remember, saddam killed over half a million of his own people with chemical (weapons of mass destruction) weapons and then stonewalled UN inspectors at each site until they had time to move them.
Beth,
The German, Brit, French, Israeli, Saudi and US intelligence services believed that Saddam still possessed WMD.
President Clinton believed the same.
FBI agents guarding Saddam stated he confessed to keeping up the pretense to keep his enemies at bay.
Where's the lie!
The German, Brit, French, Israeli, Saudi and US intelligence services believed that Saddam still possessed WMD.
President Clinton believed the same.
FBI agents guarding Saddam stated he confessed to keeping up the pretense to keep his enemies at bay.
Where's the lie!
Interventor1 said: FBI agents guarding Saddam stated he confessed to keeping up the pretense to keep his enemies at bay.
Where's the lie!
Well Interventor I guess there is the lie. You answered you own question. My question is : Was the intelligence services going on Saddam's propaganda as proof of him having WMD? I sure hope not or things are a whole lot worse than I thought. I want to say that as of right now I think we have to stay and do everything we can to make this debacle in Iraq work. I don't know if we can with the civil war going on as well as our occupation but I do not think we can cut and run now. However the reasons we went there have been proven to be false and after reading the 9/11 commission report I can't understand how anyone would still argue that. Even Colin Powell regrets his statements to the UN. I believe (and I don't think I am alone in this) that we should have never taken our eyes off of the true mastermind behind our attack and focused our efforts elsewhere. I am not nor was I against raining down hell on the ones behind the 9/11 attack, but Iraq was not anymore responsible for that than Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan for that matter. Why Iraq?
Yes they found components for making Nuclear weapons. Yes he was a evil dictator. Look around and tell me you can't name a dozen more just like him or countries just like Iraq. Where do we go next?
As I said I was not against going after the ones responsible for the attack on our country, but I do believe that going to Iraq was a huge mistake. I also believe that we were lied to about the reasons we went. Now who lied and why could be debated, but I really think that most people would agree that there were lies. This is a debate that no one will win so its probably useless to argue it. I also believe that at this point its all moot, however I have to voice my opinion on what I believe. Its just who I am.
Where's the lie!
Well Interventor I guess there is the lie. You answered you own question. My question is : Was the intelligence services going on Saddam's propaganda as proof of him having WMD? I sure hope not or things are a whole lot worse than I thought. I want to say that as of right now I think we have to stay and do everything we can to make this debacle in Iraq work. I don't know if we can with the civil war going on as well as our occupation but I do not think we can cut and run now. However the reasons we went there have been proven to be false and after reading the 9/11 commission report I can't understand how anyone would still argue that. Even Colin Powell regrets his statements to the UN. I believe (and I don't think I am alone in this) that we should have never taken our eyes off of the true mastermind behind our attack and focused our efforts elsewhere. I am not nor was I against raining down hell on the ones behind the 9/11 attack, but Iraq was not anymore responsible for that than Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan for that matter. Why Iraq?
Yes they found components for making Nuclear weapons. Yes he was a evil dictator. Look around and tell me you can't name a dozen more just like him or countries just like Iraq. Where do we go next?
As I said I was not against going after the ones responsible for the attack on our country, but I do believe that going to Iraq was a huge mistake. I also believe that we were lied to about the reasons we went. Now who lied and why could be debated, but I really think that most people would agree that there were lies. This is a debate that no one will win so its probably useless to argue it. I also believe that at this point its all moot, however I have to voice my opinion on what I believe. Its just who I am.
Beth,
Have you forgotten that we went after Afghanistan first? From there came the links to help from the other countries. Everyone says we attacked Iraq for 9/11, we went after Al Quida in Afghanistan first then that led to Iraq, Pakistan, Syria, etc.
Have you forgotten that we went after Afghanistan first? From there came the links to help from the other countries. Everyone says we attacked Iraq for 9/11, we went after Al Quida in Afghanistan first then that led to Iraq, Pakistan, Syria, etc.
BETH,
"Interventor1 said: FBI agents guarding Saddam stated he confessed to keeping up the pretense to keep his enemies at bay.
Where's the lie!
Well Interventor I guess there is the lie. You answered you own question. My question is : Was the intelligence services going on Saddam's propaganda as proof of him having WMD? I sure hope not or things are a whole lot worse than I thought."
Now, there's the rub! The intelligence was based on more than just propaganda. Remember Saddam managed to fool a number of nation's intelligence agencies. Including, our rather small one at Foggy Bottom.
Sorry, the only lies were from Saddam. Once more, the intell services of the US, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Russia and Iran all believed Iraq possessed WMD. I assume you don't believe there was some great collusion amongst them to perpetuate it!
Intelligence is always a rather iffy game at best. One must go with what one has.
Remember the CIA missed the downfall of the Soviet Union -- rather embarassing, to say the least!
"Interventor1 said: FBI agents guarding Saddam stated he confessed to keeping up the pretense to keep his enemies at bay.
Where's the lie!
Well Interventor I guess there is the lie. You answered you own question. My question is : Was the intelligence services going on Saddam's propaganda as proof of him having WMD? I sure hope not or things are a whole lot worse than I thought."
Now, there's the rub! The intelligence was based on more than just propaganda. Remember Saddam managed to fool a number of nation's intelligence agencies. Including, our rather small one at Foggy Bottom.
Sorry, the only lies were from Saddam. Once more, the intell services of the US, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Russia and Iran all believed Iraq possessed WMD. I assume you don't believe there was some great collusion amongst them to perpetuate it!
Intelligence is always a rather iffy game at best. One must go with what one has.
Remember the CIA missed the downfall of the Soviet Union -- rather embarassing, to say the least!
quote:Originally posted by LMM:
Beth,
Have you forgotten that we went after Afghanistan first? From there came the links to help from the other countries. Everyone says we attacked Iraq for 9/11, we went after Al Quida in Afghanistan first then that led to Iraq, Pakistan, Syria, etc.
I know that we went to Afghanistan first. I just think we should have stayed there and finished what we started in full force. We pulled out troops and equipment and turned towards Iraq! Why did we back off of the hunt for Osama and go after Saddam? I read in the 9/11 report that there was no real evidence that Saddam supported Al-Qaida or that he had any previous involvement with Osama. Osama told the world, no bragged to the world that he was behind the attack and so far he has gotten away with it while thousands of Americans and Iraqis die everyday. It seems like he accomplished what he sat out to do.
I don't want anyone who reads this to think that I don't support our troops or that I think they are doing anything wrong, I really admire and respect the brave soliders fighting for this country. I just feel like alot of them have been sacrificed for the wrong reasons and it really upsets me.
Beth,
I understand your feelings but when you have Pakistan hiding Bin Laden and other Al Quida members, and a terrain a goat has trouble with, its hard to find one man. Research the Soviet Union trying to take on Afghanistan. Research ANY one trying to take on Afghanistan. Their culture is such that any one not of their tribe is considered an invader. In Iraq, the people helped to free themselves. That's not happening there.
Don't believe everything you read in the 9/11 report.
I hope and pray your family members stay safe.
I understand your feelings but when you have Pakistan hiding Bin Laden and other Al Quida members, and a terrain a goat has trouble with, its hard to find one man. Research the Soviet Union trying to take on Afghanistan. Research ANY one trying to take on Afghanistan. Their culture is such that any one not of their tribe is considered an invader. In Iraq, the people helped to free themselves. That's not happening there.
Don't believe everything you read in the 9/11 report.
I hope and pray your family members stay safe.
quote:Originally posted by Howard Roark:
Now, there's the rub! The intelligence was based on more than just propaganda. Remember Saddam managed to fool a number of nation's intelligence agencies. Including, our rather small one at Foggy Bottom.
Sorry, the only lies were from Saddam. Once more, the intell services of the US, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Russia and Iran all believed Iraq possessed WMD. I assume you don't believe there was some great collusion amongst them to perpetuate it!
Intelligence is always a rather iffy game at best. One must go with what one has.
Remember the CIA missed the downfall of the Soviet Union -- rather embarassing, to say the least!
Is that enough of a reason to invade and make war with a country? WMD? Killing his own people? If so then we have our work cut out for us in so many other countries that I fear we will be at this for a long time. I don't mean to be sarcastic I truly feel like the reason we went into Iraq are not justifiable. I think we have paid a very high price for a very low prize. As I said in another post at this point it is really moot. We have to stay now and do the best we can. However I will never believe it was necessary or warranted. We lost more than good soldiers to this fight. We lost a lot of our respectability in the eyes of our allies. I know that alot of people will say who cares what other countries think, well in this day and age we better care. If Iran, Pakistan and Syria were to decide to buck up then we will need those allies and I don't want them saying "well you started this your on your own". At this point we are spread too thin and trying to put out too many fires as it is. When we look back at history we see that other great countries have done this and have collapsed. We should learn from history and not repeat the same old mistakes. I was raised like I am sure so many of you were that "you didn't start a fight with anyone, but if someone started one with you then you had better stand and finish it" The problem I have with the Iraq war is that I feel like we started it. I know that I will probably be attacked for saying that but that is my belief. It doesn't change the fact that we are there now and we have to stay and do our best to finish what we started so I guess I am just venting a frustration that has no real purpose other than just that....venting.
There are some very smart and well informed people on this forum and I would truly like for some of you to educate me on things that I am maybe lacking all the info on. I say this because I am always willing to learn and I try to keep an open mind about things till I have enough information to make a decision. If you think you can help me see the good of the Iraq war then please (and I mean this sincerely) open my eyes and show me proof that will make this sit easier with me. I would honestly like to believe it was for the betterment of our country and not just a horrible judgement call by our leaders.
And, we look back and see how great countries did nothing and millions died. If, Iraq develops into a moderate Arab/muslim state, it was worth the terrible price.
One bullet in the 1930's would have ended much tragedy, however, as "gentlemen didn't do such things," reportedly State recalled the sniper team. Too bad, no Schickelgruber, no WWII in Europe!
One bullet in the 1930's would have ended much tragedy, however, as "gentlemen didn't do such things," reportedly State recalled the sniper team. Too bad, no Schickelgruber, no WWII in Europe!
quote:Originally posted by LMM:
Beth,
I understand your feelings but when you have Pakistan hiding Bin Laden and other Al Quida members, and a terrain a goat has trouble with, its hard to find one man. Research the Soviet Union trying to take on Afghanistan. Research ANY one trying to take on Afghanistan. Their culture is such that any one not of their tribe is considered an invader. In Iraq, the people helped to free themselves. That's not happening there.
Don't believe everything you read in the 9/11 report.
I hope and pray your family members stay safe.
Thank you LMM for your prayers. We haven't heard from my nephew in a quite a while now and we all really worry but he told us that we might not hear from him so I guess no news is good news. He is in Afghanistan and when I last talked to him he was doing well but feeling like they were going in circles over there. He didn't get into much detail (I don't think he can or should) but said that the people in the villages seemed unwilling to help them with infomation. He also said Pakistan was the real problem and the going was very slow.
I do remember the fighting between Russia and Afghanistan. I also know that our government helped arm alot of the people we are now fighting over there. They gave them weapons to fight Russia and trained them now we are paying that price.
My cousin is in Iraq and he works closely with the Iraqi military. He told me that he felt like if we pulled out now they would be over run with terrorist and most likely Iran would move in. So I understand us staying there but still think we should have never went there to begin with. I believe that most of them have to and do believe in what they are doing and find something that makes sense to them for why they are there. I don't question him on the right or wrong of the war there. I feel like he has enough to worry about and I don't want him second guessing what he is doing. He needs to concentrate on the task at hand and staying alive. i just wish I felt like it was worth the sacrifice so many have made. I do hope that in the end it is.
To echo Howard: Iraq as a moderate, islamic democracy would add a counterpoint to the dangers posed by Iran. Were Iran and Iraq to unite, forcibly or otherwise, the entire region would be in jeapordy; the other arabian states would be at a disadvantage.
And the search for Bin Ladin is really incidental. Capturing or killing him will not cripple AQ; however, it may provide a morale boost for much of America. This may be a double-edged sword since leftards will scream for "giving him a fair trial", which would give him a platform for his rants. Better to just shoot him on the field, I expect.
And the search for Bin Ladin is really incidental. Capturing or killing him will not cripple AQ; however, it may provide a morale boost for much of America. This may be a double-edged sword since leftards will scream for "giving him a fair trial", which would give him a platform for his rants. Better to just shoot him on the field, I expect.
Was there a serious threat that Iran was going to take control of Iraq before we attacked? So by invading Iraq our government was hoping to get a foot in the door so to speak?
I know that capturing Bin Ladin would not end AQ but I sure would like to know that he was sent to hell where he belongs. I agree that he should not be giving any platform to spout his hateful rhetoric and should be killed on sight.
I know that capturing Bin Ladin would not end AQ but I sure would like to know that he was sent to hell where he belongs. I agree that he should not be giving any platform to spout his hateful rhetoric and should be killed on sight.