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I'm a UNA alum and I don't feel strongly either way. If they can make the move without a significant burden to students and taxpayers I would have no objection to the move. I would like to see the studies published showing the costs and financial benefits and if the sports can cover a significant portion of expenses. As far as the sports teams, evidence at other schools show there will be many years in the wilderness getting beat badly by larger established schools, but as I said in another thread, the publicity benefits of your loss by 50 points every week to a larger more established school on national TV may be preferable to no mention of your school at all.
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Originally posted by EvilGenius:
I'm a UNA alum and I don't feel strongly either way. If they can make the move without a significant burden to students and taxpayers I would have no objection to the move. I would like to see the studies published showing the costs and financial benefits and if the sports can cover a significant portion of expenses. As far as the sports teams, evidence at other schools show there will be many years in the wilderness getting beat badly by larger established schools, but as I said in another thread, the publicity benefits of your loss by 50 points every week to a larger more established school on national TV may be preferable to no mention of your school at all.


That's not necessarily the case. The move would probably only be to Division IAA at first (that is the move most schools make). When Jacksonville State and Troy State made the move, they were pretty competitive.
Yes I'm aware they would be in the lower division I class. Troy and Jacksonville spent many years as punching bags after the move. Troy only recently in the last few years has become competitive, and even now they take a drubbing from time to time depending on the competition. I'm not against taking a drubbing if as a result, attention, money, and higher quality education comes to UNA because of it, but just don't get your expectations too high with the scoreboard.
If UNA moves to DI, that means they will never play the DII Championship game in their home stadium, no more tournament appearances either. Something to think about

There are advantages and disadvantages, I'm not a fan so I have no say one way or another. If they move to DI-AA, they'll most likely go to the Ohio Valley Conference and play teams like TSU, Jackson State, TTU and Eastern Kentucky. It's a competitive league, so you'll get some good match ups.

On the flip side, DI-A schools can put them on their schedule as a pay game. Example, UNA will get a fat check to travel to LSU's homecoming and get their butts stomped. It will help the athletic department's finances, but can hurt conference play due to injuries.

There are pros and cons to both sides. Personally, I think they would do better staying where they are and competing for championships, but that's up to the school and fans to decide.
I think more fans would care if we were playing Jax St, Alabama A&M, Tennessee St, etc with the occasional money game with one of the big boys.

With a metro population of more than 140,000, there's good reason to believe we could have a MUCH LARGER fan base than JSU OR Troy. Plus, now we have maybe the greatest communicator in college football right here on our campus. Coach Bowden is already hard at work selling UNA across the state. Look what he did at Samford. They were D3 which means, no scholarships! Yet in his 5th year, having skipped D2 altogether, he led the Bulldogs to the D1AA playoff semifinals.
I agree K that the shoals area is in a much better situation to make the move than both jax st. and troy. I beleive someone said earlier that those two schools struggled awhile before they were competive, only half true!! Jax st. did indeed struggle early on but Troy was competive from the start, mainly because they were better prepared for the move. Their Athletics director was Johnny Williams, a UNA alum who done a masterful job in preparing the program for the move. I do beleive he has done some consulting with the university on this matter in the past, and should UNA make the commitment to make the move I'am sure he would work with the university to make the move as smooth and sucessful as possible.
You proved my point. We praise brawn over brains, hold entertainers to god-like status and go for the money.
The ones who should get the adulation are the debate teams, the scholars, scientists, doctors, soldiers, LEO's, and fire fighters.
But hey, they're just doing their job, not keeping us entertained.


OK, rant off topic. My apologies. I am tired of putting out COLLEGE money that does not go for the college.
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Originally posted by LMM:
You proved my point. We praise brawn over brains, hold entertainers to god-like status and go for the money.
The ones who should get the adulation are the debate teams, the scholars, scientists, doctors, soldiers, LEO's, and fire fighters.
But hey, they're just doing their job, not keeping us entertained.


OK, rant off topic. My apologies. I am tired of putting out COLLEGE money that does not go for the college.


If you can figure out a way to make watching a scientist work as interesting as watching a football game then I will be the first to join you.

On another note, the University of Alabama Athletic Dept donated $1m to the general academic fund last year so a strong athletic dept can definitely help academicas and also boost enrollment.
Also, keep in mind that a strong athletic program gets TV coverage. Next time you watch an SEC game, notice how many spots run promoting the school's academics. Plus, a huge student section having fun cheering for their school is very appealing to potential applicants.

It's all about promotion and money. The academic side gets promoted and increases enrollment, the athletic side increases ticket, concession, and ad sale revenue.

The downside is if a student was debating between Troy and UNA, then watches UNA getting destroyed at Movie Gallery Stadium in front of cheering Trojan fans, that could lead them away from UNA. Staying in DII and keeping a successful program may be more beneficial to the school.
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Originally posted by NashBama:
Also, keep in mind that a strong athletic program gets TV coverage. Next time you watch an SEC game, notice how many spots run promoting the school's academics. Plus, a huge student section having fun cheering for their school is very appealing to potential applicants.

It's all about promotion and money. The academic side gets promoted and increases enrollment, the athletic side increases ticket, concession, and ad sale revenue.

The downside is if a student was debating between Troy and UNA, then watches UNA getting destroyed at Movie Gallery Stadium in front of cheering Trojan fans, that could lead them away from UNA. Staying in DII and keeping a successful program may be more beneficial to the school.


Any move up results in growing pains. Just ask Troy. Also ask Troy how it felt to go to Death Valley and jump out to a huge lead against LSU before falling late in the game. I'd be willing to bet their fans rate that as more memorable than either of their D2 championships.
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Originally posted by kperk:
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Originally posted by NashBama:
Also, keep in mind that a strong athletic program gets TV coverage. Next time you watch an SEC game, notice how many spots run promoting the school's academics. Plus, a huge student section having fun cheering for their school is very appealing to potential applicants.

It's all about promotion and money. The academic side gets promoted and increases enrollment, the athletic side increases ticket, concession, and ad sale revenue.

The downside is if a student was debating between Troy and UNA, then watches UNA getting destroyed at Movie Gallery Stadium in front of cheering Trojan fans, that could lead them away from UNA. Staying in DII and keeping a successful program may be more beneficial to the school.


Any move up results in growing pains. Just ask Troy. Also ask Troy how it felt to go to Death Valley and jump out to a huge lead against LSU before falling late in the game. I'd be willing to bet their fans rate that as more memorable than either of their D2 championships.


Excellent point. Some of the highlights for me as a MT fan is beating Vandy 3 times and keeping Cutler from a bowl game, beating Maryland at home, and coming within a literal foot of upsetting Kentucky.

MT has been D1 for over 10 years now. Yes, we've had our butts kicked in some money games, but we've also seen our attendance grow from a few hundred to over 25,000 in the stands. Could UNA achieve that? Maybe, but it will require leaving championships behind and being the homecoming cupcake for a while. Not an easy thing for fans.
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Originally posted by NashBama:
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Originally posted by kperk:
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Originally posted by NashBama:
Also, keep in mind that a strong athletic program gets TV coverage. Next time you watch an SEC game, notice how many spots run promoting the school's academics. Plus, a huge student section having fun cheering for their school is very appealing to potential applicants.

It's all about promotion and money. The academic side gets promoted and increases enrollment, the athletic side increases ticket, concession, and ad sale revenue.

The downside is if a student was debating between Troy and UNA, then watches UNA getting destroyed at Movie Gallery Stadium in front of cheering Trojan fans, that could lead them away from UNA. Staying in DII and keeping a successful program may be more beneficial to the school.


Any move up results in growing pains. Just ask Troy. Also ask Troy how it felt to go to Death Valley and jump out to a huge lead against LSU before falling late in the game. I'd be willing to bet their fans rate that as more memorable than either of their D2 championships.


Excellent point. Some of the highlights for me as a MT fan is beating Vandy 3 times and keeping Cutler from a bowl game, beating Maryland at home, and coming within a literal foot of upsetting Kentucky.

MT has been D1 for over 10 years now. Yes, we've had our butts kicked in some money games, but we've also seen our attendance grow from a few hundred to over 25,000 in the stands. Could UNA achieve that? Maybe, but it will require leaving championships behind and being the homecoming cupcake for a while. Not an easy thing for fans.


We wouldn't be leaving them behind in football. Yes we would be leaving them behind in basketball because, let's face it, we (just like 90% of the D1 schools) will never beat a North Carolina or UConn, or Kentucky for the national championship. It's not like we have a tradition of national championships lately anyway.

It's been 6 years since the volleyball team won their only NC. It's been 18 years (geez it doesn't seem possible) since the men's basketball team won their last NC. It's been 14 years since the football team last won an NC but competing on the FCS level, we could build and have a shot.

Instead of few and far between championships, we could enjoy the higher level of performance coming to town at the D1 level. Alabama played here in baseball last season and it drew a crowd of almost 2,000! If we move up, we could expect a few more games like that each season and our quality of players would go up as well.
More good points.

I've watched MT move from D1-AA to D1, that type of changes comes with quite a few growing pains. There are huge benefits, but to get there requires patience through the butt kickings.

UNA may not win a NCAA tournament championship, but D1-AA schools can win a bid to it. My wife went to Belmont which is D1-AA, they came within a few seconds of upsetting Duke in '08. D1-AA schools can compete against and sometimes upset the big guys in basketball. It might not be a championship, but it would feel pretty close to winning one.
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Originally posted by NashBama:
More good points.

I've watched MT move from D1-AA to D1, that type of changes comes with quite a few growing pains. There are huge benefits, but to get there requires patience through the butt kickings.

UNA may not win a NCAA tournament championship, but D1-AA schools can win a bid to it. My wife went to Belmont which is D1-AA, they came within a few seconds of upsetting Duke in '08. D1-AA schools can compete against and sometimes upset the big guys in basketball. It might not be a championship, but it would feel pretty close to winning one.


Do you think that Middle Tennessee made a mistake by moving up?

Was you around in 1980 when UNA defeated Middle Tennessee 36-0?

Could it be possible that UNA is several years late in moving up?
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Originally posted by 210 N. Seminary - 1182:
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Originally posted by NashBama:
More good points.

I've watched MT move from D1-AA to D1, that type of changes comes with quite a few growing pains. There are huge benefits, but to get there requires patience through the butt kickings.

UNA may not win a NCAA tournament championship, but D1-AA schools can win a bid to it. My wife went to Belmont which is D1-AA, they came within a few seconds of upsetting Duke in '08. D1-AA schools can compete against and sometimes upset the big guys in basketball. It might not be a championship, but it would feel pretty close to winning one.


Do you think that Middle Tennessee made a mistake by moving up?

Was you around in 1980 when UNA defeated Middle Tennessee 36-0?

Could it be possible that UNA is several years late in moving up?


No, they didn't make a mistake. It was time for them to move up. They were competitive against Mississippi State, nearly beat Kentucky, and did beat Maryland last year. They've grown quite a bit in the past 10 years.

The program is very different from 30 years ago. MT is now the largest undergrad school in the state with over 20,000 students. Our football stadium holds 35,000. Today our baseball team will play Vanderbilt in the NCAA tournament. We are the #2 seed, Vandy is #3.

I do think UNA is a little late in moving up. They aren't ready for D1-A yet like MT, but I think they could benefit from playing D1-AA. The rivalry between A&M and UNA could be pretty good.

I was only 3 in 1980, so I don't remember that game. I do remember our basketball team dominating UNA at Murphy Center this past season.
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Originally posted by kperk:
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Originally posted by Firedancer:
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Originally posted by CrustyMac:
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Originally posted by kperk:


Name a scientist that 80,000 people would pay 50 bucks a ticket to sit out in the rain and watch him turn on a bunsen burner. Wink


Stephen Hawking?


Point - Crusty!


Stephen Hawking? Doesn't take much for you to award a point. Big Grin


Heck, I'd pay $100 to watch him light a bunsen burner. Do you know who Stephen Hawking is, or do you just like to stand in the crowd and be obnoxious?
I think it is great that MTSU has done so well with their 22,000 students to support a D1 team, and the metro area of 1.5 million people to draw on.

That is a far cry from UNA at just barely over 7,000 and 140,000. You need students for athletic funds to pay for the move as well as donations from alumni and the community. This is not the time or the economy to consider the move, and there is a moratorium that would keep them from moving up for a couple of years anyway. Additionally, there is the new NCAA D1 $1 million application fee for a D1 move that wasn't considered in the previous proposals.

There is also a consideration that when the moratorium ends that 18 sports will be required for new schools applying for D1 status. Right now UNA has 12. That will mean an increase in the budget from approximately $4 million to around $11 or 12 million to be competitive at the D1 FCS level. That is assuming that tax revenues and student fees could support such an increase.

Probably not a reasonable move for a small regional university.
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Originally posted by TexasChopper:
I think it is great that MTSU has done so well with their 22,000 students to support a D1 team, and the metro area of 1.5 million people to draw on.

That is a far cry from UNA at just barely over 7,000 and 140,000. You need students for athletic funds to pay for the move as well as donations from alumni and the community. This is not the time or the economy to consider the move, and there is a moratorium that would keep them from moving up for a couple of years anyway. Additionally, there is the new NCAA D1 $1 million application fee for a D1 move that wasn't considered in the previous proposals.

There is also a consideration that when the moratorium ends that 18 sports will be required for new schools applying for D1 status. Right now UNA has 12. That will mean an increase in the budget from approximately $4 million to around $11 or 12 million to be competitive at the D1 FCS level. That is assuming that tax revenues and student fees could support such an increase.

Probably not a reasonable move for a small regional university.


You do make a good point. However, ASU (Arkansas State) is D1-A and has a student base of about 10k. Their attendance is getting better, but they are able to support a D1 program.

I think it's possible for the area and student size to support a D1-AA school, but you make a good point. It would be incredibly expensive to make that move and I don't think the price would be worth it.

I think people in Florence do a great job of supporting UNA. I also think that support would still be there if they stayed in D II or went to D I-AA. UNA is fine where they are for now, so since it's not broke, why fix it?

As long as the students, fans, alumni, and boosters are happy, that's all that matters.
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Originally posted by CrustyMac:
Seriously, I've been flip flopping, back and forth on the issue. I wonder if we could be competitive in D1, but I am a little tired of watching UNA destroy the competition, then lose in the playoffs because they have no experience playing tough opponents.
bingo! with the exception of valdosta and delta , the GSC is a joke.
One negative that I see immediately is that Braly Stadium is too small to be a D I stadium. If I am not mistaken, the NCAA has a specific number that the stadium must seat for D I.

UNA opnes at home this Sat. night if I am not mistaken but I am not sure what type of fan base will show because Bama is also on national TV at the same time. IMO, when the two major schools play on TV on a Sat. night and UNA is at home, it has to hurt game attendance.

I like the idea of UNA having a chance to play in the NCAA D II national championship in front of its home crowd. I realize that is a lofty goal on a yearly basis but the fact remains they have that chance in D II. I like the idea of UNA almost always playing in playoff games something else D I does not offer the Lions. What about the other coaches at UNA, do they want to make the move up to a higher level?

IMO, I think it is imperative that all fans of UNA give Coach Bowden at least a year to get his complete system (not just plays) worked in at UNA and then determine if D I AA is an attanable goal in the near future.

This is a good discussion thread and it needs to be looked at from all angles. There is a lot of work to be done making a move to a higher divison.
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Originally posted by alabama mike:
One negative that I see immediately is that Braly Stadium is too small to be a D I stadium. If I am not mistaken, the NCAA has a specific number that the stadium must seat for D I.

UNA opnes at home this Sat. night if I am not mistaken but I am not sure what type of fan base will show because Bama is also on national TV at the same time. IMO, when the two major schools play on TV on a Sat. night and UNA is at home, it has to hurt game attendance.

I like the idea of UNA having a chance to play in the NCAA D II national championship in front of its home crowd. I realize that is a lofty goal on a yearly basis but the fact remains they have that chance in D II. I like the idea of UNA almost always playing in playoff games something else D I does not offer the Lions. What about the other coaches at UNA, do they want to make the move up to a higher level?

IMO, I think it is imperative that all fans of UNA give Coach Bowden at least a year to get his complete system (not just plays) worked in at UNA and then determine if D I AA is an attanable goal in the near future.

This is a good discussion thread and it needs to be looked at from all angles. There is a lot of work to be done making a move to a higher divison.
braly stadium is adequate for UNA to play at the 1-AA level. paul snow stadium (jax st.) seats 15,000. there is a minimum stadium capacity for D-1 football, 30,000; i believe is the magic number.

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