Union?

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Originally posted by gracies old man:

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Originally posted by Smooth operator:

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Originally posted by gracies old man:
One almost has to be crazy to open a business where workers 'belong' to a union.

Wonka-

That's the beauty of a free society. You can go somewhere else and work, where they cater to your every whim.

Plantation owners used to say the same thing about slaves. Although you can't compare the two, there are distinct parallels that cannot be denied. I refuse to be a slave for someone else's greed.

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That's classic. You ADMIT that you CAN'T compare the two, but then you CONTINUE to compare the two. Brilliant analysis!

Hmmmmm..... OK, since you don't understand parallels, let me explain. Slavery in the United States was such a horrible atrocity that to compare it to any type of employment situation would be a slap in the face to all descendents of slaves. However, my point was that just as the plantation owners thought they couldn't make it without slave labor, so many business owners think they can't make it without treating their employees like dirt. By this I mean paying below poverty wages, ignoring workplace safety, and inhuman conditions. All of these factors were addressed by the great labor unions of this country. I'm sorry you can't see this, but greed does usually blind one to the truth.

Some around here SEEM to be oblivious to the fate of most the unionized companies around here and across the country. Where are the Fords, Murrays, Occidental Chem/Diamond Shamrocks, etc.

The union didn't help the companies to be more profitable and subsequently, didn't help the work force hold on to their jobs.[/QUOTE]

Just for the record, Oxy is non-union. Part of the plant closed because of antiquated technology and environmental concerns. Also, you failed to mention the closing of all the other non-union plants in this area. The list is quite extensive. Ford closed because of plant consolidation. They were going to close it whether the union took concessions or not. Murray closed due to overseas competition - mostly China. Wages & benefits were not all that high at Murray. If you want to work for 50 cents a day, by all means, be my guest.

You forgot to mention the documented building and land pollution at Ford. The effects are still there. Oh, i knmow, the now elderly ex Ford workers sneak out in the dark of night and re-pollute the land. Or maybe the UAW sends some one down from Detroit? Ford left while the getting was good over the pollutio question.

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Could someone explain to me how to get a union going at the workplace?

Get a piece of cardboard and a magic marker. Write in big letters "UNION" on the cardboard. Get up on a table and flash that UNION sign to all your fellow drudges. Make sure your southern accent is country enough to make you sound spunky and determined and then chant, "Union, Union, Union...

Honestly, it's that easy. And people will like you...they will really, really like you!

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Originally posted by KissedGrits:

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Sub par and poison is what we are being sold.... unions can put a stop to that...... quick!.....

Yeah, unions have really helped the automobile industry. It's going to take all us non-union people paying taxes to bail them out.

I thought the CEO's ran the company's? If you believe all the big 3s finical problems are because of unions you might as well believe in the Easter Bunny. UPS is all union and they make a healthy profit.

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Originally posted by gracies old man:

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Originally posted by DHS-86:
gracies old man, from all that you write, I would assume you have never worked in a union workplace (in a plant or on a construction site). If you haven't, all you are doing is repeating hysterics that you have heard others say. Without firsthand knowledge, you are unqualified to even comment on the impact of the union in the workforce, because you do not know. I do, however, understand your fear. As a business owner, you fear that if the workers had any rights that they might realize how they are getting the shaft. They might actually realize that if it weren't for them, your business couldn't survive at the level it is now. They might actually demand that their efforts, in making you wealthy, derserve to be appreciated a little more. Greed is a bad thing.

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Thank you, DHS-

You are assuming the people I have hired, who are very skilled at what they do, are STUPID, and can't decide for themselves if I am treating them right.

You don't no anything about how I run my business, or what I pay, or how I treat my employees, some who've been w/ me over 15 years.

But that says more about you than it does about me.

You automatically assume I MUST be paying them poorly, treating them badly, and hoarding wheelbarrels full of cash as I party at the beach, sipping pina coladas, laughing at the plight of my poor untrained ill-equipped work force.

The problem here is that you don't know what your talking about, but spout off as the authority.

You, obviously have never run a business. "Without firsthand knowledge, you are unqualified to even comment on the impact of the union in the workforce, because you do not know."

Actually, I was speaking in general terms, but as they say, "the dog hit first, barks first". One thing you are correct about is the fact that I do not know what you pay your employess. For that matter, I don't know what kind of business you have. I hope you do pay them a good living wage and appreciate their efforts which make you successful. But, I would be willing to bet that benefits leave something to be desired. Most small business will cut corners at employee benefits before even considering other avenues. Thing like that is what the unions protect. I grew up in a union family and worked union myself for several years. Not once, did I ever witness people not pulling their weight and getting away with it, nor did I ever see my father come home less than exhausted from a hard day's work. You want to blame unions for these various businesses failing when you don't have to look any further than the people who manage the business.

I give them benefits no union would ever do. It happened today, if fact. Let's just say it this way: I gave one employee "personal time" numerous times during this workday, to deal w/ a family situation. Not an emergency, just something that had to be dealt with. I didn't dock pay or reprimand that person. Second, I am letting their laid off spouse work a few days to help them out of a bind.

You see, I'm sure over the years this and other employees probably could have found a job that paid more or had better 'benefits', but they continue to stay, because I give them flexibility in their daily time and also flexibility in their work schedule during different times of the year, according to their needs.

I am starting to wonder if you have ever worked anywhere, much less a unionized workplace, when you say ...." Not once, did I ever witness people not pulling their weight and getting away with it"....I have never worked a construction site or plant where that was not the case.

I have worked for Brown & Root, Fish Engineering and Const., McGraw-Hill, Smackover Shell, Harris Construction (paving), Steelcase, Redman Mfg. homes, for family owned construction companies, truss plants and manufacturing plants.

I simply do not believe what you're saying. It's widespread. Slugs are a dime a dozen. On one union job I worked at, the foreman told me on the first day, "I don't care if you pick up a 2 x 4 at 7 a.m. and carry it around all day, just don't get caught sitting down, doing drugs, or drinking on the job.

I had an interesting discussion with a guy, not long after I moved here in the late 80's. He owned a local business, and we were talking about some work he needed done. He kept looking at his watch and fidgeting (sp) around, so I asked if later would be a better time to talk. he said that everything was fine, it's just that two of his employees were late coming back from lunch, and he was a bit antsy. When they walked in, 4 minutes late, he proceeded to ream them up one side and down the other, in front of several customers.

Now, that is his right to reprimand them, however he sees fit.

But, this is the same guy who bragged to me on numerous occasions about his 30+ years at Reynolds, where he, as a supervisor on graveyard shift, slept 3 to 4 hours a night, on the job, for most of the years he was employed there. He said it was the only way he made it all those years. And he was proud of it!

Adding it up, 3 to 4 hours a night, week after week, month after month, year after year for 3 decades. He probably slept over a third of his career, all the time drawing wages, using the benefits.

And now he's reaming a couple of HIS employees for being 4 minutes late from lunch on one day.

I don't know, seems a little hypocritical to me.

Well, I can assure you that I have worked since I was old enough to work. When I was younger I work several years in construction and was a union member. I worked for GUBMK, JK johnson, Craig Construction, Cates & Puckett, Westinghouse, GE, and others on out of town jobs. I've worked at Colbert Steam Plant, Wilson Dam, West Jefferson Steam Plant, Gorgas Steam Plant, McWayne Pipe among others. What I'm telling you is the truth. I've seen people screw around on these jobs and as soon as they were caught they were out of work. I don't know what they did at Reynolds, but if they were sleeping, that goes back to poor management. All they had to do was dismiss the worker and soon the others would get the picture.

Like I said before, I do understand your fear of unions, I just think it's stupid.

Hello everyone,thank you all for your input.The problem has been resolved where I work. Apparently someone contacted our corporate offices, the HR person came down and held a meeting with our nurses aides and threw out the point system as well as giving them other concessions according to one individual I spoke with.

Apparently the new Administration and D.O.N did not check with corporate before makeing up all these new rules.

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Originally posted by ms. wonka:
Hello everyone,thank you all for your input.The problem has been resolved where I work. Apparently someone contacted our corporate offices, the HR person came down and held a meeting with our nurses aides and threw out the point system as well as giving them other concessions according to one individual I spoke with.

Apparently the new Administration and D.O.N did not check with corporate before makeing up all these new rules.

I'm glad to see that things worked out for you. However I still would recomend you to join a union. Studies have shown that patients that are being cared for by nurses who belong to a union recieve better care and have a better mortality rate.

How could wonka's situation possibly have been solved w/o union input?

Dilly-

cite your sources.

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Originally posted by gracies old man:
How could wonka's situation possibly have been solved w/o union input?

Dilly-

cite your sources.

Link

Gracie, our Human Resource person is on the employees side. The corporate office sends this person in to resolve employee complaints. So I guess our facility doesn't need the union because our company cares about their employees.Something we didn't fully realize until this dispute came up.

Interesting link.. Dilly... thanks!.....

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Originally posted by gracies old man:
I give them benefits no union would ever do. It happened today, if fact. Let's just say it this way: I gave one employee "personal time" numerous times during this workday, to deal w/ a family situation. Not an emergency, just something that had to be dealt with. I didn't dock pay or reprimand that person. Second, I am letting their laid off spouse work a few days to help them out of a bind.

You see, I'm sure over the years this and other employees probably could have found a job that paid more or had better 'benefits', but they continue to stay, because I give them flexibility in their daily time and also flexibility in their work schedule during different times of the year, according to their needs.

I am starting to wonder if you have ever worked anywhere, much less a unionized workplace, when you say ...." Not once, did I ever witness people not pulling their weight and getting away with it"....I have never worked a construction site or plant where that was not the case.

I have worked for Brown & Root, Fish Engineering and Const., McGraw-Hill, Smackover Shell, Harris Construction (paving), Steelcase, Redman Mfg. homes, for family owned construction companies, truss plants and manufacturing plants.

I simply do not believe what you're saying. It's widespread. Slugs are a dime a dozen. On one union job I worked at, the foreman told me on the first day, "I don't care if you pick up a 2 x 4 at 7 a.m. and carry it around all day, just don't get caught sitting down, doing drugs, or drinking on the job.

I had an interesting discussion with a guy, not long after I moved here in the late 80's. He owned a local business, and we were talking about some work he needed done. He kept looking at his watch and fidgeting (sp) around, so I asked if later would be a better time to talk. he said that everything was fine, it's just that two of his employees were late coming back from lunch, and he was a bit antsy. When they walked in, 4 minutes late, he proceeded to ream them up one side and down the other, in front of several customers.

Now, that is his right to reprimand them, however he sees fit.

But, this is the same guy who bragged to me on numerous occasions about his 30+ years at Reynolds, where he, as a supervisor on graveyard shift, slept 3 to 4 hours a night, on the job, for most of the years he was employed there. He said it was the only way he made it all those years. And he was proud of it!

And now he's reaming a couple of HIS employees for being 4 minutes late from lunch on one day.

I don't know, seems a little hypocritical to me.

Supervisors at Reynolds are not usually members of the union. This is another case of a management problem, not a union problem. I'm glad you made a good point for the union. Thank you.

I don't know what his exact title was, but I DO KNOW he was a union member, hence the reason for the story to begin with. Duh

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Originally posted by gracies old man:
I don't know what his exact title was, but I DO KNOW he was a union member, hence the reason for the story to begin with. Duh

Sounds to me like you don't have a clue about what you are talking about, which is usually the case when people talk about how bad the unions are. They go by second hand stories, and usually don't have their facts straight. Duh back to you.

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Originally posted by gracies old man:
I don't know what his exact title was, but I DO KNOW he was a union member, hence the reason for the story to begin with. Duh

This person that was a supervisor may have been a union member, However once you become a supervisor you are no longer working under a union contract. If he slept on the job it wasn't because he was under a union contract. He was Reynold's responsibility, not a unions. If he would have got caught then their would have been nothing that any union could have or would have done for him.

The reason that this man didn't get caught was because the work that was supposed to be getting done under him was. His job was easy wich allowed him to have time to sleep. And the reason he was able to have down time was because of the good union employees that were working under him making his job easy enough that he had time to sleep.


If I was a supervisor then it looks like, according to you friend, that I would want union employees working under because they seem to have made his job very easy! Maybe good empoyess make supervisors lazy.

quote:

Originally posted by gracies old man:
I had an interesting discussion with a guy, not long after I moved here in the late 80's. He owned a local business, and we were talking about some work he needed done. He kept looking at his watch and fidgeting (sp) around, so I asked if later would be a better time to talk. he said that everything was fine, it's just that two of his employees were late coming back from lunch, and he was a bit antsy. When they walked in, 4 minutes late, he proceeded to ream them up one side and down the other, in front of several customers.

Now, that is his right to reprimand them, however he sees fit.

But, this is the same guy who bragged to me on numerous occasions about his 30+ years at Reynolds, where he, as a supervisor on graveyard shift, slept 3 to 4 hours a night, on the job, for most of the years he was employed there. He said it was the only way he made it all those years. And he was proud of it!

Adding it up, 3 to 4 hours a night, week after week, month after month, year after year for 3 decades. He probably slept over a third of his career, all the time drawing wages, using the benefits.

And now he's reaming a couple of HIS employees for being 4 minutes late from lunch on one day.

I don't know, seems a little hypocritical to me.

This guy should have been mad at his employees who were late, He could have done anything that he wanted to to these guys whether they were union or not. However I bet that these guys were not union like the ones that worked for him at Reynolds who made his job stress free.

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Originally posted by Smooth operator:

quote:

Originally posted by gracies old man:
I give them benefits no union would ever do. It happened today, if fact. Let's just say it this way: I gave one employee "personal time" numerous times during this workday, to deal w/ a family situation. Not an emergency, just something that had to be dealt with. I didn't dock pay or reprimand that person. Second, I am letting their laid off spouse work a few days to help them out of a bind.

You see, I'm sure over the years this and other employees probably could have found a job that paid more or had better 'benefits', but they continue to stay, because I give them flexibility in their daily time and also flexibility in their work schedule during different times of the year, according to their needs.

I am starting to wonder if you have ever worked anywhere, much less a unionized workplace, when you say ...." Not once, did I ever witness people not pulling their weight and getting away with it"....I have never worked a construction site or plant where that was not the case.

I have worked for Brown & Root, Fish Engineering and Const., McGraw-Hill, Smackover Shell, Harris Construction (paving), Steelcase, Redman Mfg. homes, for family owned construction companies, truss plants and manufacturing plants.

I simply do not believe what you're saying. It's widespread. Slugs are a dime a dozen. On one union job I worked at, the foreman told me on the first day, "I don't care if you pick up a 2 x 4 at 7 a.m. and carry it around all day, just don't get caught sitting down, doing drugs, or drinking on the job.

I had an interesting discussion with a guy, not long after I moved here in the late 80's. He owned a local business, and we were talking about some work he needed done. He kept looking at his watch and fidgeting (sp) around, so I asked if later would be a better time to talk. he said that everything was fine, it's just that two of his employees were late coming back from lunch, and he was a bit antsy. When they walked in, 4 minutes late, he proceeded to ream them up one side and down the other, in front of several customers.

Now, that is his right to reprimand them, however he sees fit.

But, this is the same guy who bragged to me on numerous occasions about his 30+ years at Reynolds, where he, as a supervisor on graveyard shift, slept 3 to 4 hours a night, on the job, for most of the years he was employed there. He said it was the only way he made it all those years. And he was proud of it!

And now he's reaming a couple of HIS employees for being 4 minutes late from lunch on one day.

I don't know, seems a little hypocritical to me.

Supervisors at Reynolds are not usually members of the union. This is another case of a management problem, not a union problem. I'm glad you made a good point for the union. Thank you.

My great-uncle was a Supervisor at Reynolds for many years...... and he was non-union.... he preached non-union all the time because he was a "company" man.....

I doubt that any Supervisor at Reynolds were union but the foremen probably was....

That is the way it is with TVA too...... Supervisors-no.... Foremen-yes..... DUH!

My granddad stayed a member of the union, even when he became management at TVA. I remember going with him to the union hall when he paid his dues.

He couldn't go on strike, but he still retained his membership.

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Originally posted by Howard Roark:
My granddad stayed a member of the union, even when he became management at TVA. I remember going with him to the union hall when he paid his dues.

He couldn't go on strike, but he still retained his membership.

Foremen at Wise/Reynolds are almost exclusively non-union members of management. There are a couple of exceptions, but they are rare and temporary. Also, once someone becomes a member of salaried management, they give up all rights of union membership. They also are not allowed to rejoin the union. This information is for all who "think" they know about the union at Wise/Reynolds.

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Originally posted by ms. wonka:
Gracie, our Human Resource person is on the employees side. The corporate office sends this person in to resolve employee complaints. So I guess our facility doesn't need the union because our company cares about their employees.Something we didn't fully realize until this dispute came up.

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

I'm glad, now if you could just get the union guys to understand that.

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Originally posted by DILLY:

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Originally posted by gracies old man:
I don't know what his exact title was, but I DO KNOW he was a union member, hence the reason for the story to begin with. Duh

This person that was a supervisor may have been a union member, However once you become a supervisor you are no longer working under a union contract. If he slept on the job it wasn't because he was under a union contract. He was Reynold's responsibility, not a unions. If he would have got caught then their would have been nothing that any union could have or would have done for him.

The reason that this man didn't get caught was because the work that was supposed to be getting done under him was. His job was easy wich allowed him to have time to sleep. And the reason he was able to have down time was because of the good union employees that were working under him making his job easy enough that he had time to sleep.


If I was a supervisor then it looks like, according to you friend, that I would want union employees working under because they seem to have made his job very easy! Maybe good empoyess make supervisors lazy.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

That is some convoluted logic, but is par for the course.

Even if you were right, he still got all the union benefits.

smooth, dilly, and and total-

I see why you guys are trying so hard for him NOT to be a union guy, but you are just wrong. It's also not heresay, it came straight from the person in question. I understand it is difficult to see clearly with those blinders on. Switch to rose colored glasses, then eventually you can remove them. Don't do it all at once, it would be too big of a shock.

I've got a couple more union stories, but seeing how you refuse to believe anything other than what you have been fed, it's a useless proposition. It's been real, and thanks for the time anyway. I've had all the fun I can stand.

quote:

Originally posted by gracies old man:
That is some convoluted logic, but is par for the course.

Even if you were right, he still got all the union benefits.

smooth, dilly, and and total-

I see why you guys are trying so hard for him NOT to be a union guy, but you are just wrong. It's also not heresay, it came straight from the person in question. I understand it is difficult to see clearly with those blinders on. Switch to rose colored glasses, then eventually you can remove them. Don't do it all at once, it would be too big of a shock.

I've got a couple more union stories, but seeing how you refuse to believe anything other than what you have been fed, it's a useless proposition. It's been real, and thanks for the time anyway. I've had all the fun I can stand.

Gracies,

When smooth, total, and I tell you that your friend was not represented by a union becuae he is a supervisor we are speaking the truth. This is not some myth or made up story. I see why you have become so disappinted to learn this becuase it made your story show how supervision can be a problem instead of their union workers.

What we are telling you is facts. We are not the ones looking through rose colored glasses of wearing binders it is you. The only points that you have attempted to make came from hear-say wich turmed out ,to your disappointment, to show managemaent problems instead of union problems.

I have many non union stories, but seeing how you don't seem to understand how unions work and can't tell the difference from fact and fiction then its a useless proposition. But I am still willing to discuss this issue with you anytime you want. But seeing how you have had all the fun that you can stand (or all the truth that you can handle) I suspect I won't be hearing from you again.

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Originally posted by ms. wonka:
Gracie, our Human Resource person is on the employees side. The corporate office sends this person in to resolve employee complaints. So I guess our facility doesn't need the union because our company cares about their employees.Something we didn't fully realize until this dispute came up.

I'm not so sure that your company dosn't need a union, yet. If you were represented by a union, ms.wonka, then the problem would have been resolved long before it became a problem. The only thing that you would have had to do is take care of you patients instead of having to right a wrong yourselves. This is just one of the many benefits of being a union member.

I'm glad to see that your problem was resolved through Human Resources and that your company has people available to help you. But remember, many companies treat their employees better just because of what unions have done elsewhere. So if you can benefit from union organization without belonging to one, just think of how much you could benefit if you did belong to one.

[smooth, dilly, and and total-

I see why you guys are trying so hard for him NOT to be a union guy, but you are just wrong. It's also not heresay, it came straight from the person in question. I understand it is difficult to see clearly with those blinders on. Switch to rose colored glasses, then eventually you can remove them. Don't do it all at once, it would be too big of a shock.

I've got a couple more union stories, but seeing how you refuse to believe anything other than what you have been fed, it's a useless proposition. It's been real, and thanks for the time anyway. I've had all the fun I can stand.[/QUOTE]

I don't see how we can make it any clearer. If the man was sleeping on the job, that was a management problem, not a union problem. I promise you, the union did not ask that man to sleep on the job. They do not condone it. If the man is accused of such, the union will defend him, just as an attorney defends people who are accused of robbery. If a police department decided to not make any more arrests for bank robbery just because the robber would just get a lawyer, then that is a problem with the police not doing their job, not the lawyer doing his. The union is bound to defend all of it's dues paying members, just as every defendent in a criminal proceeding is afforded an attorney to represent him. We don't get to pick and choose who we will defend, and who we won't. It is up to management to see that it's rules are enforced. If they would do it fairly, then there would be no need for a union.
However, for centuries, this has not been the case. Companies only began treating their employees decently after workers began to organize into collective barganing units. Don't kid yourself. Almost all worker's rights we have today are the result of unions. Unions set the standards we see today. Whether or not a person belongs to a union, they benefit directly for the blood shed by union workers on the picket lines. (yes many have been killed and injured trying to protect their rights.) Many people are now starting to see the need arising again for unions. As workers have become apathetic, the companies have begun slowly taking advantage of that apathy, believing the employees have no power or will to correct their situations. As companies continue this trend, you will see a rise in union activity in the near future as evidenced by the very nature of this thread.

OMG, I have gotten into so many Union posts on here it is unreal!!!

I am 100% PRO-UNION. It is the only thing that has kept our particular area from poverty.

History proves that Unions take care of people, left up to Corporations, they screw people over and pay little to nothing while they are getting fat off the consumers. Left up to Corporations you have absolutely no protection for your jobs.

How on earth anyone who makes less than 100 Grand a year can be against a Union is beyond me. The Union helps make the Bosses stay honest and treat people as right as they can, as well as getting them a larger piece of the pie. And lets face it, CEO's have taken nearly 90% of their pie without a second glance at the people who worked their buns off to keep them in Private Jets and Limo's.

UNION all the way, baby!