Universal healthcare

quote:

Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
Aside from the democrats' opposition to the war in Iraq, their other platform in '08 is going to be the emergence of universal healthcare. Obama, Edwards, and Kucinich all all jumped on the Hillary train when it comes to a solution to healthcare.

Personally, I think there are two many hands stirring the pot. If we could somehow make the healthcare market truly competitive where people could shop around and purchase what type of drugs and coverage, prices would come down. However, special interest groups don't want to see this happen. This is the main problem with the current situation. The president wants it both ways.

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:
My understanding of Hillary's plan, I read it but that was long ago in a galaxy far away, was as I remember it, for the government to provide a pool of private insurance companies that would offer plans at reasonable rates.
You could still keep whatever insurance you have now, but for those without company sponsored insurance, the rates you could get health insurance would be comparable to what most people pay for company sponsored ins. Don't know why that would require doctors to oversee. I don't remember anything about the government seizing private property.

I have good insurance. My interest in this is mainly because I am tired of my insurance paying for all the people who don't pay anything for their medical care, and it gets rolled to those of us who do. This raises my rates, and I don't like it!

quote:

Originally posted by Fighting Illini:

quote:

Originally posted by excelman:
My understanding of Hillary's plan, I read it but that was long ago in a galaxy far away, was as I remember it, for the government to provide a pool of private insurance companies that would offer plans at reasonable rates.
You could still keep whatever insurance you have now, but for those without company sponsored insurance, the rates you could get health insurance would be comparable to what most people pay for company sponsored ins. Don't know why that would require doctors to oversee. I don't remember anything about the government seizing private property.

I have good insurance. My interest in this is mainly because I am tired of my insurance paying for all the people who don't pay anything for their medical care, and it gets rolled to those of us who do. This raises my rates, and I don't like it!

I see your concerns. My concern is that in the end we are going to pay more for health insurance than we are now. Maybe not directly, but in the form of additional taxes to supplement those who can't afford to pay for their coverage government offers them. I guess I am just skeptical that government can do a better job making decisions for me than I can.

quote:

Originally posted by interventor:
You really need to study up on Hillary's old plan. She didn't have any medical personnel, health experts or insurance experts in her conclave, only government bureaucrats. Little things like the health police financed from seizure of all your assets, if you tried sought private care were chilling.

It was the Canadian plan on steroids. And, that plan is not one to copy.

quote:

Originally posted by smurph:
but in that same mode of thinking ,,,are docs really worth 3 million a year? are they in it because it is desire to heal and cure the ill or to become wealthy? I see too dang many in it simply for the wealth to be had.

Or to break that down, are they worth 100 dollars for 10 minutes (IF that) of the time they see you?

Wealthy is the answer... no doubt. I haven't seen a doctor in years who actually CARES about illnesses, they just grab their prescription pads and give steroids or antibiotics... that'll cure EVERYTHING, dont ya know

quote:

but in that same mode of thinking ,,,are docs really worth 3 million a year? are they in it because it is desire to heal and cure the ill or to become wealthy? I see too dang many in it simply for the wealth to be had.

quote:

Originally posted by NashBama:

quote:

but in that same mode of thinking ,,,are docs really worth 3 million a year? are they in it because it is desire to heal and cure the ill or to become wealthy? I see too dang many in it simply for the wealth to be had.

If they save your life, yes they are worth it. Why would someone go through 8 years of tough college work, residencies, exams, certifications, and the rest of that for a job that paid $26k a year? I agree that our health care system is flawed, but handing it over to the government is absolutly the wrong answer.

quote:

She didn't say 26K a year, she said THREE MILLION a year, quite a difference.

quote:

Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
Aside from the democrats' opposition to the war in Iraq, their other platform in '08 is going to be the emergence of universal healthcare. Obama, Edwards, and Kucinich all all jumped on the Hillary train when it comes to a solution to healthcare.

Personally, I think there are two many hands stirring the pot. If we could somehow make the healthcare market truly competitive where people could shop around and purchase what type of drugs and coverage, prices would come down. However, special interest groups don't want to see this happen. This is the main problem with the current situation. The president wants it both ways.

quote:

Originally posted by EdEKit:

quote:

Originally posted by Fighting Illini:
Aside from the democrats' opposition to the war in Iraq, their other platform in '08 is going to be the emergence of universal healthcare. Obama, Edwards, and Kucinich all all jumped on the Hillary train when it comes to a solution to healthcare.

Personally, I think there are two many hands stirring the pot. If we could somehow make the healthcare market truly competitive where people could shop around and purchase what type of drugs and coverage, prices would come down. However, special interest groups don't want to see this happen. This is the main problem with the current situation. The president wants it both ways.

Fighting Illini.

I can tell you for certain that the Clinton Plan, as presented in 1992, is superior to anything the Republicans came up with since (nothing till this year's State of the Union) But I think it is too far reaching to get passed.
That Said, let me critique the Bush plan for Mandating Health Insurance PURCHASES, and providing a Tax Deduction EQUAL to the personal deduction to individual taxpayers, and a dollar for dollar expensing for companies.
First, Insurance costs are already not taxed in company profits. The cost reduces the profit.
Secondly, 2000 dollars a year will NOT BUY AN INSURANCE POLICY. But, the Bush plan has a safety net for the working poor. If their company does not pay premiums for health insurance, the low paid worker gets his premium paid by the general fund. This provides a two prong incentive for low wages. First, the company that does not provide insurance, while not getting a tax benefit, is only taxed a portion of their profit. The insurance premium comes out 100% of the company's profit. Second, at the cut off level, an employee also looses money by providing his own insurance, so there is an incentive for the low and unskilled worker to take lower hourly pay so that he will qualify for Government paid insurance. Low paid workers, regardless of their skill levels, tend to slow economic activity, because they don't have "purchasing power."

PERSONALLY, I THINK THE BUSH PROPOSAL IS ANOTHER SHORT SIGHTED, QUICK BUCK SCHEME.