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US led Massacre Charged.

Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
This story says somone on our side tried to end fighting by dropping leaflets. THE FIGHTING STOPPED AT 4 AM. The leaflets fell in the dark. If anyone even noticed them, it would have been suicide to turn on a light to read them.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2201103.ece

"There are growing suspicions in Iraq that the official story of the battle outside Najaf between a messianic Iraqi cult and the Iraqi security forces supported by the US, in which 263 people were killed and 210 wounded, is a fabrication. The heavy casualties may be evidence of an unpremeditated massacre.

A picture is beginning to emerge of a clash between an Iraqi Shia tribe on a pilgrimage to Najaf and an Iraqi army checkpoint that led the US to intervene with devastating effect. The involvement of Ahmed al-Hassani (also known as Abu Kamar), who believed himself to be the coming Mahdi, or Messiah, appears to have been accidental."
"The essence of all religions is one. Only their approaches are different." ~Mahatma Gandhi
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Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by just saying:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
U R THE STUPIDIST PERSON ON EARTH.
Every Dead American is just one more that can't take up arms against Islam.


Are you being facetious or just plain barbaric?

Did you read the Article posted, or just the quote from it, or are you saying that BOMBARDING 200 PEOPLE ON THEIR WAY TO A REVIVAL MEETING IS JUST HUMKY DORY?
J Jan55Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by yankeewitch:
EdEKit,I may be stupid,my kids tell me that all the time,but at least I wouldn't make that comment about my own country.May be this isn't your country?If your so pro-terrorist maybe you should go live in Iraq.


Why or you saying Ed is pro-terrorist? its people like you that jump the the gun that people should fear.ED is not a terrorist or for it. and don't be calling people names in this forum. I'am sick of people like you and the likes of you that lower yourself to a level like you just did. you can't debate but you can call people names that don't agree with you.
Mott The HoopleMott The HoopleHall of Famer
quote:
I'am sick of people like you and the likes of you that lower yourself to a level like you just did. you can't debate but you can call people names that don't agree with you



Are you sick of Ed too...

quote:
U R THE STUPIDIST PERSON ON EARTH.
Every Dead American is just one more that can't take up arms against Islam.



Does your knife just cut ONE way?
just sayingjust sayingHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:

Did you read the Article posted, or just the quote from it, or are you saying that BOMBARDING 200 PEOPLE ON THEIR WAY TO A REVIVAL MEETING IS JUST HUMKY DORY?[/QUOTE]

Neither. My reply was to you typing "Every Dead American is just one more that can't take up arms against Islam." I didn't read your link/copy paste job. I never implied that I felt hunky dory about anything, so please don't insinuate me to do so.

I feel you insult all Americans when you type something as foul as you did.
Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by yankeewitch:
EdEKit,I may be stupid,my kids tell me that all the time,but at least I wouldn't make that comment about my own country.May be this isn't your country?If your so pro-terrorist maybe you should go live in Iraq.


I was not being barbaric with the Comment, Every dead American is just one more that can't take up arms against Islam, UNLESS, and only unless you were being barbaric when you said " Every dead muslim is just one more that can't take up arms against us. Or is it barbaric to kill one kind of person, and patriotic to kill a different kind?

I was not being pro terrorist either. I was responding to well over 200 dead and more than 200 more wounded, in what appears to be either an accident of war, or a BARBARIC ATTACK ON A GROUP OF PILGRIMS MOVING TOWARD THEIR GOAL AT NIGHT IN A WAR ZONE.
Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:
quote:
Or is it barbaric to kill one kind of person, and patriotic to kill a different kind?




Think Ed...try it...E N E M Y they is trying to kill US...you out of ky or what?


T H I N K Mott, who attacked whom? Not the trade center, that was RADICAL ARAB MUSLIMS, ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE SAUDI RICH MAN, OSAMA BIN LADEN.
Think Baghdad. We are fighting for control of Iraq remember, and we are not trying to wrest control of Iraq from MUSLIMS, but from Ba ath party politicians. We are fighting Ba athists, not Muslims. JUST BECAUSE MOST Ba athists happen to be Muslim does not mean they all are, IN FACT, MANY Ba athists are CHRISTIANS.
Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
Mott, we need to DO SOMETHING. TO STOP THE NEO CON PROPOGANDA MACHINE FROM BLINDING US.

Yankee witch. You are not being honest. Dead People, are not a threat. MOST, LIVE PEOPLE ARE NOT A THREAT. Only fearful, angry and armed people, who do not know their enemy, are a threat. AS AN AMERICAN, I WISH NOT TO BE A THREAT TO MUSLIMS. I WISH NOT TO BE A THREAT TO CHRISTIANS. I WISH NOT TO BE A THREAT.
Not knowing your enemy is Ba'ath Party politicians, and thinking he is Muslims, makes you a threat..to Muslims, and NOTHING AT ALL TO the Ba'ath party.
Do you sleep well thinking that your enemy may be the shop keeper up the road? Would you sleep better if you knew that the shop keeper up the road is here because he OPPOSED THE ba'athist at his homeland? Do you recall the Muslims Celebrating the Death of the Leader of the Ba'ath party of Iraq, sadamm Hussain? They are your ALLIES, NOT YOUR ENEMIES, AND THEY ARE MUSLIMS.
BrentenmanBrentenmanHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by yankeewitch:
Every dead muslim is just one more that can't take up arms against us.


U R THE STUPIDIST PERSON ON EARTH.
Every Dead American is just one more that can't take up arms against Islam.


That quote right there is TREASON in my book....I had friends of mine killed by those SOB's..and you sit in the comfort of your home, and you type that?

I think you need to visit Walter Reed or some other VA hospital and visit our vets....that would change your tune.

Decorum will not let me write what I REALLY think of your statement....Imagine R. Lee Ermey yelling at you...I leave it at that.
J Jan55Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:
quote:
I'am sick of people like you and the likes of you that lower yourself to a level like you just did. you can't debate but you can call people names that don't agree with you



Are you sick of Ed too...

quote:
U R THE STUPIDIST PERSON ON EARTH.
Every Dead American is just one more that can't take up arms against Islam.



Does your knife just cut ONE way?



I think I made my self clear, I was taking up for Ed.
J Jan55Old Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
Did a bit more checking on this. The Independent is an anti-Bush and anti-US rag to say the least. But, more importantly the story sounds like it was filed from Mahoghony ridge -- the bar at the al-Rashid hotel in the IZ. Brit using Iraqi stringers.



Oh, I see, anti-Bush and anti-US, Like Fox news THE RIGHT WING CHANNEL is anti-Democrat,anti Jimmy Carter,Anti,Clinton. Well, THAT TELLS YOU ONE THING THE NEWS IS JUST AS DIVIDED AS THE PEOPLE!!!!!!
*~*Manda*~**~*Manda*~*Hall of Famer
I agree with Mott and Just on this... Yankee was just telling her opinion, and then you counter her with an insult and then do the same thing. That's kinda hypocritical even if you were being facetious.

As for the thread itself, if they were really all pilgrims trying just to go to a revival, then that is sad.. I don't group all people over there as bad just because of where they live or their belief structure/culture. I am sure there are plenty that wish that there was peace, or at least no more war.

With that said though, I respect everyone's opinions. Even if I don't agree with them, and it kinda seems on this thread that you might not, Ed. No offense, but really, it does, at least to someone like me that hasnt gotten to know many around here.

~Manda~
J Jan55Old Faithful
US and CIA intervantions and Covert Actions
Believe or not this is only a partial list, skips The over throw of Mossedgh in Iran in 54, Arbenz in Guatemala in 53, Allende in Chile Sept, 11, 1973, the creating and funding of terrorists groups - the Contras in Nicaragua in 1980's, Savimbi in Angola, the Death Squads in El Salvador in 80's and the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan under bin Laden. Plus more....


1959

Haiti — The U.S. military helps "Papa Doc" Duvalier become dictator of Haiti. He creates his own private police force, the "Tonton Macoutes," who terrorize the population with machetes. They will kill over 100,000 during the Duvalier family reign. The U.S. does not protest their dismal human rights record.

1961

The Bay of Pigs — The CIA sends 1,500 Cuban exiles to invade Castro’s Cuba. But "Operation Mongoose" fails, due to poor planning, security and backing. The planners had imagined that the invasion will spark a popular uprising against Castro -– which never happens. A promised American air strike also never occurs. This is the CIA’s first public setback, causing President Kennedy to fire CIA Director Allen Dulles.

Dominican Republic — The CIA assassinates Rafael Trujillo, a murderous dictator Washington has supported since 1930. Trujillo’s business interests have grown so large (about 60 percent of the economy) that they have begun competing with American business interests.

Ecuador — The CIA-backed military forces the democratically elected President Jose Velasco to resign. Vice President Carlos Arosemana replaces him; the CIA fills the now vacant vice presidency with its own man.

Congo (Zaire) — The CIA assassinates the democratically elected Patrice Lumumba. However, public support for Lumumba’s politics runs so high that the CIA cannot clearly install his opponents in power. Four years of political turmoil follow.

1963

Dominican Republic — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Juan Bosch in a military coup. The CIA installs a repressive, right-wing junta.

Ecuador — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows President Arosemana, whose independent (not socialist) policies have become unacceptable to Washington. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.

1964

Brazil — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the democratically elected government of Joao Goulart. The junta that replaces it will, in the next two decades, become one of the most bloodthirsty in history. General Castelo Branco will create Latin America’s first death squads, or bands of secret police who hunt down "communists" for torture, interrogation and murder. Often these "communists" are no more than Branco’s political opponents. Later it is revealed that the CIA trains the death squads.

1965

Indonesia — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA has been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue, for nothing more than his declaring neutrality in the Cold War. His successor, General Suharto, will massacre between 500,000 to 1 million civilians accused of being "communist." The CIA supplies the names of countless suspects.

Dominican Republic — A popular rebellion breaks out, promising to reinstall Juan Bosch as the country’s elected leader. The revolution is crushed when U.S. Marines land to uphold the military regime by force. The CIA directs everything behind the scenes.

Greece — With the CIA’s backing, the king removes George Papandreous as prime minister. Papandreous has failed to vigorously support U.S. interests in Greece.

Congo (Zaire) — A CIA-backed military coup installs Mobutu Sese Seko as dictator. The hated and repressive Mobutu exploits his desperately poor country for billions.

1966

The Ramparts Affair — The radical magazine Ramparts begins a series of unprecedented anti-CIA articles. Among their scoops: the CIA has paid the University of Michigan $25 million dollars to hire "professors" to train South Vietnamese students in covert police methods. MIT and other universities have received similar payments. Ramparts also reveals that the National Students’ Association is a CIA front. Students are sometimes recruited through blackmail and bribery, including draft deferments.

1967

Greece — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government two days before the elections. The favorite to win was George Papandreous, the liberal candidate. During the next six years, the "reign of the colonels" — backed by the CIA — will usher in the widespread use of torture and murder against political opponents. When a Greek ambassador objects to President Johnson about U.S. plans for Cypress, Johnson tells him: "**** your parliament and your constitution."

Operation PHEONIX — The CIA helps South Vietnamese agents identify and then murder alleged Viet Cong leaders operating in South Vietnamese villages. According to a 1971 congressional report, this operation killed about 20,000 "Viet Cong."

1968

Operation CHAOS — The CIA has been illegally spying on American citizens since 1959, but with Operation CHAOS, President Johnson dramatically boosts the effort. CIA agents go undercover as student radicals to spy on and disrupt campus organizations protesting the Vietnam War. They are searching for Russian instigators, which they never find. CHAOS will eventually spy on 7,000 individuals and 1,000 organizations.

Bolivia — A CIA-organized military operation captures legendary guerilla Che Guevara. The CIA wants to keep him alive for interrogation, but the Bolivian government executes him to prevent worldwide calls for clemency.

1969

Uruguay — The notorious CIA torturer Dan Mitrione arrives in Uruguay, a country torn with political strife. Whereas right-wing forces previously used torture only as a last resort, Mitrione convinces them to use it as a routine, widespread practice. "The precise pain, in the precise place, in the precise amount, for the desired effect," is his motto. The torture techniques he teaches to the death squads rival the Nazis’. He eventually becomes so feared that revolutionaries will kidnap and murder him a year later.
I interventorPost Master
pba,

Get experience in the world. In the UK, newspapers are highly politicized -- Guardian, Independent very left and Telegraph and Times more conservative.

By the way the 1967 coup in Greece countered the Aspida attempt by the communists to take power. Lists of thousands of victims to be exterminated were found, as well as plans to ally with USSR and expose NATOs southern flank. Colonels went too far in their actions, but save thousands.

I went to trouble to check with friends and all I get in response are snippy comments and a cut and paste job. Get real world experience.
Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
Sometimes I believe God must hate arabs, he sent them Mohammad.
Me too interventor, not only Mohammed, but Jesus and the Moses too.
If you look carefully, about 25 miles south of Baghdad you can find BABYLON...yes, that Babylon, the place of the Tower. If you are careful in your studies, you will learn that the Monotheistic religion of the "People of the Book" was born in Summaria, that is the ancient name of Iraq. There is a disconnect here. Christianity was NOT the religion of Europe at the time of Roman empire. Rome was ruled by people who worshipped a whole raft of well known Gods. Janus, is the Roman god January is named for. Juno gave his name to June. March, is named for The God Mars. Jupeter for Jove, Mercury for the messenger of the gods. Venus for the fertility goddess. The Moon, also known as Luna the goddes of the Night. And insanity is called Lunacy. Europeans were not Christians till 600 years or more after the Death of Jesus. (ressurection for believers)
What your off the cuff remark translates to is "God must hate my enemies for he loves me."
Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
quote:
Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:
quote:
I'am sick of people like you and the likes of you that lower yourself to a level like you just did. you can't debate but you can call people names that don't agree with you



Are you sick of Ed too...

quote:
U R THE STUPIDIST PERSON ON EARTH.
Every Dead American is just one more that can't take up arms against Islam.



Does your knife just cut ONE way?



I think I made my self clear, I was taking up for Ed.


HOLD on here. I ain't dead yet.
pba, watch my place, I am going over to snuggle with brentenman. I think I will plant a FREEDOM Kiss right on his lips...he turns me on. He IS SUCH A BIG MAN. YELL IF YOU SEE THE COPS COMING. dial 911 if you hear gunfire. (nine one one, pba, there is NO ELEVEN ON A TELEPHONE.)
Actually, I CAN AND WILL STAND UP FOR MYSELF, This is a mind war and I am well armed for it. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, CRY HAVOC. I take no prisoners. (all metaphor <andrea.moore@timesdaily.com>Wink
With my first post here, knowing I was an outsider, a Liberal, and having been warned by the late lamented Ken The Barrister, I expected more BIGGOTRY, and less intellect than I have found.
I do see hints of what I was warned about, Religious BLINDNESS. Bible thumping in the extreme. Biggotry, generalized and extreme. I have also seen a lot, in fact a majority, of thoughtful, respectable, passionate commentary. The aroma of terror permeates some of the things I have read here. AND I MEAN THE KIND OF TERROR THAT STINKS, THE KIND OF FEAR THAT WILL TURN A NORMAL, LOVING PERSON INTO A MINDLESS KILLER.
The kind of fear that touched off the Bloodbath described in this article. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2201103.ece
And, if the description is accurate, it was fear that fired the first shot, and fear that responded in kind. It is the kind of fear that causes people to go armed into the night.
More to the point, it was FEAR THAT AMERICAN INVOLVEMENT IN IRAQ CREATED, GENERATED, ENABLED AND NURTURES. We should have gone with Kodak's not cannons. And we are way past wearing out our welcome. Maybe I am too.
Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Brentenman:
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by yankeewitch:
Every dead muslim is just one more that can't take up arms against us.


U R THE STUPIDIST PERSON ON EARTH.
Every Dead American is just one more that can't take up arms against Islam.[/QUOTE
That quote right there is TREASON in my book....I had friends of mine killed by those SOB's..and you sit in the comfort of your home, and you type that?

I think you need to visit Walter Reed or some other VA hospital and visit our vets....that would change your tune.

Decorum will not let me write what I REALLY think of your statement....Imagine R. Lee Ermey yelling at you...I leave it at that.


Just earned another Freedom Kiss brentenman. You have me pegged. I THINK THAT KILLING IRAQIS IS GETTING AMERICANS KILLED. Unlike possum, Iraqis shoot back.
Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by yankeewitch:
I sleep very well knowing that I am well armed and remembering the 911 terrorists were somebodies neighbor up the street. I will think well of muslims when they turn Bin Laden over and stop hiding him.Maybe muslim is not the word I should be using.How about all middle easterners, instead?

How about a narrower noun, Jihadist, or, pick one of these instead of all: http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/sects.htm Non sectarian website, Just the Facts Mam, and not biased in any way.
I would have said that All Terrorists are Sufistic Musilms I did in fact, in the face of a Muslim. He set me straight, without even raising his voice.
It seems very strange to me that others do not do what I do. I have heard, from time to time, from various people, including you yankeewitch, and even a couple of Ranking Christians, that Islam is the problem we have to stamp out.
I like to be helpful, must be the Cub Scout in me. So I thought, I shall stamp out Muslims. As soon as I find one. And like any good hunter, I went hunting. Using the greatest library known to history, perhaps the greatest library in the universe, certainly the greatest library in the Known Universe, I ascertained where Muslims coult be found, This was on September 13th, 2001. I remember the day because two mornings earlier the World Trade Center collapsed, and the officials were saying that it was Evil Muslim Radicals who had done it.
One of the first things I found out was that there were a lot more Muslims than Christians, and thought if those Christian people are going to stamp out all Muslims they are going to reduce the population of earth by 20% and they are going to have a big job. If they can stamp out two muslims each, without being stamped out their own selves in the process, they might get the job done.
My research showed me that inside the United States well over a Million Muslims had been peacefully practicing their religous beliefs for some time. I BEGAN DOUBTING THAT MUSLIMS NEEDED TO BE STAMPED OUT. Why HEAVENS TO BETSY (OR MERGATROID IF YOU WANNA BE "COOL") they had been living among us peacefully for years. I even knew one myself, and found him to be a kind, generous family man. He drove a Gasoline Truck. I even found out that the MAJORITY of African Slaves imported into the USA were Muslims when they arrived. Oh I know, they got Christianized.
That made me wonder how people who did not make music, or dance together managed to create Spirituals, and MY FAVORITE, JAZZ.
This research was really weakening my resolve to stamp out Muslims.
Then, and I must say I am grateful, the boss of all bosses, the Commander in Chief, The DECIDER, came on tee vee and said He would take care of stamping out the Muslims with a Crusade. and, I should go shopping. WELL, with my finances, going shopping was out of the question so, I decided not to follow that order, because walking around in stores dressed in second hand clothes is a good way to get busted for shoplifting or loitering.
I gave up the Idea of stomping Muslim butt, in favor of letting the Decider do it. Then my girl friend Mary's sister's son decided to do the stomping by joining the Navy. I thought that was curious, since the only part the Navy would play in stomping Afghanistan Backside was well sort of difficult, since Afghanistan has no ocean. But he wanted to join up, but he had quit high school when his daddy had shot himself accidentally with an unloaded 12 guage. As I was one of the Smartest boys in the bunch Mary asked me if I could sort of tutor and help her nephew get a GED so as to join the Navy, and I went and did that. He got that GED but last I heard, he was still not in the Navy.
That might be because the Navy found out he had lived and studied with a man who did not think Muslims needed stamping out. But, I doubt it, See he moved to Arkansas to try to get in the Navy. I suspect he took my1899 .44 Cal Smith and Wesson revolver with him, since it has gone missing since he left by the Greyhound.
A while later the Decider told us that we had to get rid of Iraqis. They were Muslims, and they had Weapons of Mass Destruction that could be brought over here to Utumwa, Iowa or some other city, and used to kill us good people. By this time, I was not real interested in Stomping Muslims myself, but if the Commander in Chief wanted to do it, well he was the big boss, and he should be doing what he thought best.
Then, and I can't tell you how ANGRY this made me, we went and did it and found out that the Iraqi government had been telling the truth all along that they did not have any WMD. And worse, our BIG BOSS WAS FIBBING WHEN HE SAID THEY DID, AND KNEW HE WAS FIBBING, He even knew that there was no yellow cake from Nigeria in Iraq. He knew it was not there and said it was anyway, JUST TO GET ME TO GO ALONG WITH STOMPING MUSLIM BACKSIDE. That Lying ^*^%&*$$#^&@#$ was trying to get my friend who might have swiped my six shooter KILLED before I could get my 6 shooter back.
So, now I am on the other side, I WANT TO STOP MY COUNTRY FROM STOMPING ANY MORE MUSLIM BUTT. There is NO good reason for doing it.
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by yankeewitch:
EdEKit,I may be stupid,my kids tell me that all the time,but at least I wouldn't make that comment about my own country.May be this isn't your country?If your so pro-terrorist maybe you should go live in Iraq.


You are NOT stupid, and you are correct in what you said!!!

Ed, did you change sides to pull for the Middle Easterners???? I am confused about that?????
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
quote:
Originally posted by yankeewitch:
I sleep very well knowing that I am well armed and remembering the 911 terrorists were somebodies neighbor up the street. I will think well of muslims when they turn Bin Laden over and stop hiding him.Maybe muslim is not the word I should be using.How about all middle easterners, instead?

How about a narrower noun, Jihadist, or, pick one of these instead of all: http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/sects.htm Non sectarian website, Just the Facts Mam, and not biased in any way.
I would have said that All Terrorists are Sufistic Musilms I did in fact, in the face of a Muslim. He set me straight, without even raising his voice.
It seems very strange to me that others do not do what I do. I have heard, from time to time, from various people, including you yankeewitch, and even a couple of Ranking Christians, that Islam is the problem we have to stamp out.
I like to be helpful, must be the Cub Scout in me. So I thought, I shall stamp out Muslims. As soon as I find one. And like any good hunter, I went hunting. Using the greatest library known to history, perhaps the greatest library in the universe, certainly the greatest library in the Known Universe, I ascertained where Muslims coult be found, This was on September 13th, 2001. I remember the day because two mornings earlier the World Trade Center collapsed, and the officials were saying that it was Evil Muslim Radicals who had done it.
One of the first things I found out was that there were a lot more Muslims than Christians, and thought if those Christian people are going to stamp out all Muslims they are going to reduce the population of earth by 20% and they are going to have a big job. If they can stamp out two muslims each, without being stamped out their own selves in the process, they might get the job done.
My research showed me that inside the United States well over a Million Muslims had been peacefully practicing their religous beliefs for some time. I BEGAN DOUBTING THAT MUSLIMS NEEDED TO BE STAMPED OUT. Why HEAVENS TO BETSY (OR MERGATROID IF YOU WANNA BE "COOL") they had been living among us peacefully for years. I even knew one myself, and found him to be a kind, generous family man. He drove a Gasoline Truck. I even found out that the MAJORITY of African Slaves imported into the USA were Muslims when they arrived. Oh I know, they got Christianized.
That made me wonder how people who did not make music, or dance together managed to create Spirituals, and MY FAVORITE, JAZZ.
This research was really weakening my resolve to stamp out Muslims.
Then, and I must say I am grateful, the boss of all bosses, the Commander in Chief, The DECIDER, came on tee vee and said He would take care of stamping out the Muslims with a Crusade. and, I should go shopping. WELL, with my finances, going shopping was out of the question so, I decided not to follow that order, because walking around in stores dressed in second hand clothes is a good way to get busted for shoplifting or loitering.
I gave up the Idea of stomping Muslim butt, in favor of letting the Decider do it. Then my girl friend Mary's sister's son decided to do the stomping by joining the Navy. I thought that was curious, since the only part the Navy would play in stomping Afghanistan Backside was well sort of difficult, since Afghanistan has no ocean. But he wanted to join up, but he had quit high school when his daddy had shot himself accidentally with an unloaded 12 guage. As I was one of the Smartest boys in the bunch Mary asked me if I could sort of tutor and help her nephew get a GED so as to join the Navy, and I went and did that. He got that GED but last I heard, he was still not in the Navy.
That might be because the Navy found out he had lived and studied with a man who did not think Muslims needed stamping out. But, I doubt it, See he moved to Arkansas to try to get in the Navy. I suspect he took my1899 .44 Cal Smith and Wesson revolver with him, since it has gone missing since he left by the Greyhound.
A while later the Decider told us that we had to get rid of Iraqis. They were Muslims, and they had Weapons of Mass Destruction that could be brought over here to Utumwa, Iowa or some other city, and used to kill us good people. By this time, I was not real interested in Stomping Muslims myself, but if the Commander in Chief wanted to do it, well he was the big boss, and he should be doing what he thought best.
Then, and I can't tell you how ANGRY this made me, we went and did it and found out that the Iraqi government had been telling the truth all along that they did not have any WMD. And worse, our BIG BOSS WAS FIBBING WHEN HE SAID THEY DID, AND KNEW HE WAS FIBBING, He even knew that there was no yellow cake from Nigeria in Iraq. He knew it was not there and said it was anyway, JUST TO GET ME TO GO ALONG WITH STOMPING MUSLIM BACKSIDE. That Lying ^*^%&*$$#^&@#$ was trying to get my friend who might have swiped my six shooter KILLED before I could get my 6 shooter back.
So, now I am on the other side, I WANT TO STOP MY COUNTRY FROM STOMPING ANY MORE MUSLIM BUTT. There is NO good reason for doing it.



The ONLY way that is going to happen is call an END to the war and bring our troops home.. which is NOT going to happen too soon... Bush said this morning he was virtually going to leave it with the Democrats in 2008...

Wow... I even taught MY KIDS to clean up their own messes!!!
Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
Kindred I am cheerleading for a redeployent out of Iraq, In the long term for full withdrawal of American Combat forces from ANY POSTING NOT UNDER TOTAL JURISDICTION OF THE USA.
No, I am not pulling for what I see most people thinking what "defeat" would mean. IN 230 YEARS OF HISTORY, NO MUSLIM NATION HAS MADE ANY EFFORT TO INVADE OR TAKE OVER THE USA. THE SOVIET UNION IS THE ONLY NATION SINCE THE 19TH CENTURY TO MAKE ANY SERIOUS ATTEMPT TO DOMINATE THE USA. Paranoia is a Mental Illness. Not a real cause for gun slinging. WE ARE BEING TERRORIZED. not by muslims, by neo cons...it is a means of keeping us docile.
Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:
quote:
Not knowing your enemy is Ba'ath Party politicians, and thinking he is Muslims, makes you a threat..to Muslims, and NOTHING AT ALL TO the Ba'ath party.



Why is we killing all these Al Queida folks then...

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi

Abu Asma


Omar al Farouq


Where are the Bathist we have killed? Except for Hussein and his brother?


I think YOU need to learn who the ENEMY is.


Virtually every dead insurgent is a Ba'athist. To be a ba'athist in iraq was to have opportunity in the Hussain Government. NOT BEING A BA ATHIST DENIED YOU THAT OPPORTUNITY. The number two or Three man in the Iraq administration was a Ba'athist, and A CHRISTIAN.
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by yankeewitch:
I sleep very well knowing that I am well armed and remembering the 911 terrorists were somebodies neighbor up the street. I will think well of muslims when they turn Bin Laden over and stop hiding him.Maybe muslim is not the word I should be using.How about all middle easterners, instead?


What happened on 9/11 by those terrorists was horrible at best... but the kicker was that ALL these men who carried out this act of terrorism was described by their neighbors as very astute, very nice, very religious, and good people.... WHO KNEW????
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by EdEKit:
Kindred I am cheerleading for a redeployent out of Iraq, In the long term for full withdrawal of American Combat forces from ANY POSTING NOT UNDER TOTAL JURISDICTION OF THE USA.
No, I am not pulling for what I see most people thinking what "defeat" would mean. IN 230 YEARS OF HISTORY, NO MUSLIM NATION HAS MADE ANY EFFORT TO INVADE OR TAKE OVER THE USA. THE SOVIET UNION IS THE ONLY NATION SINCE THE 19TH CENTURY TO MAKE ANY SERIOUS ATTEMPT TO DOMINATE THE USA. Paranoia is a Mental Illness. Not a real cause for gun slinging. WE ARE BEING TERRORIZED. not by muslims, by neo cons...it is a means of keeping us docile.


I agree with you... we need to pull out of there, and do it quickly... and in NO way would it be a defeat or a success for the USA because it is NOT OUR WAR!!! We cannot win ... we cannot lose... Only Iraq can step up to the plate and do that!!!!

Similar to South Vietnam and North Vietnam... it was a lose/lose for the United States... no way could we WIN because Vietnam did not belong to us.

We need to STOP being the World's Police before the World decides to stop us!!!
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by pba:
US and CIA intervantions and Covert Actions
Believe or not this is only a partial list, skips The over throw of Mossedgh in Iran in 54, Arbenz in Guatemala in 53, Allende in Chile Sept, 11, 1973, the creating and funding of terrorists groups - the Contras in Nicaragua in 1980's, Savimbi in Angola, the Death Squads in El Salvador in 80's and the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan under bin Laden. Plus more....


1959

Haiti — The U.S. military helps "Papa Doc" Duvalier become dictator of Haiti. He creates his own private police force, the "Tonton Macoutes," who terrorize the population with machetes. They will kill over 100,000 during the Duvalier family reign. The U.S. does not protest their dismal human rights record.

1961

The Bay of Pigs — The CIA sends 1,500 Cuban exiles to invade Castro’s Cuba. But "Operation Mongoose" fails, due to poor planning, security and backing. The planners had imagined that the invasion will spark a popular uprising against Castro -– which never happens. A promised American air strike also never occurs. This is the CIA’s first public setback, causing President Kennedy to fire CIA Director Allen Dulles.

Dominican Republic — The CIA assassinates Rafael Trujillo, a murderous dictator Washington has supported since 1930. Trujillo’s business interests have grown so large (about 60 percent of the economy) that they have begun competing with American business interests.

Ecuador — The CIA-backed military forces the democratically elected President Jose Velasco to resign. Vice President Carlos Arosemana replaces him; the CIA fills the now vacant vice presidency with its own man.

Congo (Zaire) — The CIA assassinates the democratically elected Patrice Lumumba. However, public support for Lumumba’s politics runs so high that the CIA cannot clearly install his opponents in power. Four years of political turmoil follow.

1963

Dominican Republic — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Juan Bosch in a military coup. The CIA installs a repressive, right-wing junta.

Ecuador — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows President Arosemana, whose independent (not socialist) policies have become unacceptable to Washington. A military junta assumes command, cancels the 1964 elections, and begins abusing human rights.

1964

Brazil — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the democratically elected government of Joao Goulart. The junta that replaces it will, in the next two decades, become one of the most bloodthirsty in history. General Castelo Branco will create Latin America’s first death squads, or bands of secret police who hunt down "communists" for torture, interrogation and murder. Often these "communists" are no more than Branco’s political opponents. Later it is revealed that the CIA trains the death squads.

1965

Indonesia — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA has been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue, for nothing more than his declaring neutrality in the Cold War. His successor, General Suharto, will massacre between 500,000 to 1 million civilians accused of being "communist." The CIA supplies the names of countless suspects.

Dominican Republic — A popular rebellion breaks out, promising to reinstall Juan Bosch as the country’s elected leader. The revolution is crushed when U.S. Marines land to uphold the military regime by force. The CIA directs everything behind the scenes.

Greece — With the CIA’s backing, the king removes George Papandreous as prime minister. Papandreous has failed to vigorously support U.S. interests in Greece.

Congo (Zaire) — A CIA-backed military coup installs Mobutu Sese Seko as dictator. The hated and repressive Mobutu exploits his desperately poor country for billions.

1966

The Ramparts Affair — The radical magazine Ramparts begins a series of unprecedented anti-CIA articles. Among their scoops: the CIA has paid the University of Michigan $25 million dollars to hire "professors" to train South Vietnamese students in covert police methods. MIT and other universities have received similar payments. Ramparts also reveals that the National Students’ Association is a CIA front. Students are sometimes recruited through blackmail and bribery, including draft deferments.

1967

Greece — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the government two days before the elections. The favorite to win was George Papandreous, the liberal candidate. During the next six years, the "reign of the colonels" — backed by the CIA — will usher in the widespread use of torture and murder against political opponents. When a Greek ambassador objects to President Johnson about U.S. plans for Cypress, Johnson tells him: "**** your parliament and your constitution."

Operation PHEONIX — The CIA helps South Vietnamese agents identify and then murder alleged Viet Cong leaders operating in South Vietnamese villages. According to a 1971 congressional report, this operation killed about 20,000 "Viet Cong."

1968

Operation CHAOS — The CIA has been illegally spying on American citizens since 1959, but with Operation CHAOS, President Johnson dramatically boosts the effort. CIA agents go undercover as student radicals to spy on and disrupt campus organizations protesting the Vietnam War. They are searching for Russian instigators, which they never find. CHAOS will eventually spy on 7,000 individuals and 1,000 organizations.

Bolivia — A CIA-organized military operation captures legendary guerilla Che Guevara. The CIA wants to keep him alive for interrogation, but the Bolivian government executes him to prevent worldwide calls for clemency.

1969

Uruguay — The notorious CIA torturer Dan Mitrione arrives in Uruguay, a country torn with political strife. Whereas right-wing forces previously used torture only as a last resort, Mitrione convinces them to use it as a routine, widespread practice. "The precise pain, in the precise place, in the precise amount, for the desired effect," is his motto. The torture techniques he teaches to the death squads rival the Nazis’. He eventually becomes so feared that revolutionaries will kidnap and murder him a year later.



Yet ANOTHER unreadable History lesson... PBA, we KNOW all that... can you stop acting like we are all a bunch of dummies and you are the only smart one on the forums?????
Karl LeubaKarl LeubaPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Mott The Hoople:
quote:
So, now I am on the other side, I WANT TO STOP MY COUNTRY FROM STOMPING ANY MORE MUSLIM BUTT. There is NO good reason for doing it.




Have you ever read the Koran?


Not cover to cover Mott, only in the form of instructional material in comparative religion in college. AND, PROBABLY MORE OF THE KORAN THAN YOU HAVE.
Mott, you are not dealing with an imbicile.


Check this out, I am going to quote the qur'an. "And, When Jesus percieved their unbelief, he said, "who will be my helpers unto God? The apostles said: "we will be helpers of God, We believe in God; witness thou that we [are Muslims].* Lord, we believe in what Thou hast sent down, And we follow thy messenger. Inscribe us with those who witness to the truth." (3:52-53) *the bracketed words replace the phrase are Mohammedens. Due to a translation problem that results in a blasphemy by using the name of the profet in this context.
KindredKindredOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by *~*Manda*~*:
I agree with Mott and Just on this... Yankee was just telling her opinion, and then you counter her with an insult and then do the same thing. That's kinda hypocritical even if you were being facetious.

As for the thread itself, if they were really all pilgrims trying just to go to a revival, then that is sad.. I don't group all people over there as bad just because of where they live or their belief structure/culture. I am sure there are plenty that wish that there was peace, or at least no more war.

With that said though, I respect everyone's opinions. Even if I don't agree with them, and it kinda seems on this thread that you might not, Ed. No offense, but really, it does, at least to someone like me that hasnt gotten to know many around here.

~Manda~



Psssst, Manda, you are right... MOTT is a known hypocrite.. troll, baiter, and everyone KNOWS it, Wink
TF The FonzeHall of Famer
The Russians have said for years that the USA would implode and I see that happening now. No other country will have to fire a shot. They will just walk in and take control.

We have to many idiots that don't love the USA or they love money more than country. It is apparent on this board who the anti-American idiots are.

We have let to many foreigners come in unchecked and not made to assimilate. Our government has put us so bad in debt to China that China owns us. We have to many puss_y's in control of our military. They won't allow our military to win a war.

We have made a holiday celebrating a person that is known to have conspired with communist. Alabama has put a known socialist on it's state quarter. The USA has begun to except homosexuality.

The USA is following the same course as Greece, Rome, Sodom and Gomorrah , Egypt, and other fallen countries.

Iran knows all of these things and is laughing at us. I say, let Israel take care of the middle east. They are capable of turning all of those radical rag heads and there countries into a sheet of glass.
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