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And another thing - what about those people who are boy male and female at the same time - shemales or whatever like Jamie Lee Curtis was rumored to be. Some people and some animals are born with both sets of equipment down there. Did God make those people too? Your Bible verse says he didn't. And so what if God made people MALE and FEMALE. Both men and women can be gay! Jetboy, you are not too bright.
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Originally posted by jetboy:
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Are you saying that God didn't make gay people?


No, I am saying God didn't make people gay. They made that choice.
Science says you are wrong. ALL animals (humans included) exhibit homosexual behavior. God made the animals, and he made some of them gay. Even people. Too bad, so sad. Go eat a big plate of shrimp for me after you trim or shave your beard and put on your cotton/poly shirt. Hypocrite.
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And another thing - what about those people who are boy male and female at the same time - shemales or whatever like Jamie Lee Curtis was rumored to be. Some people and some animals are born with both sets of equipment down there. Did God make those people too? Your Bible verse says he didn't. And so what if God made people MALE and FEMALE. Both men and women can be gay! Jetboy, you are not too bright.




Some people are born blind...their abilty of sight is not there.

Some people are born without legs...their ability to walk is not there.

Some people are born deaf...their ability to hear is not there.

Some people are born without sexual organs...their ability to have sex is not there.

Some people are born with both sexual organs...their ability to have sex IS there...but they must violate Gods words to do it.


Many people are born without the ability to do many things...why do you place such importance on sex?


"“'Teacher,' his disciples asked him, 'why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins or those of his parents?' 'It was not because of his sins or his parents' sins,' Jesus answered. 'He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him'” (John 9:2-3)."
Last edited by Jetboy
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Originally posted by jetboy:
Why do you ignore this question tsc?


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Do you understand what the coming of Jesus was all about?

Were any laws fulfilled?
I thought your question was rhetorical. Yes, I understand that the coming of Jesus fulfilled prophecy. And Christ states that he did not come to abolish the law. Further, he states that we are to obey every letter of it. If you want to speak out against gays, then you must also see the sin of the shrimp eaters, the shavers, the blended shirt wearers - no?

Matthew 5:17-48 (New International Version)

The Fulfillment of the Law
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
quote:
Originally posted by jetboy:
quote:
And another thing - what about those people who are boy male and female at the same time - shemales or whatever like Jamie Lee Curtis was rumored to be. Some people and some animals are born with both sets of equipment down there. Did God make those people too? Your Bible verse says he didn't. And so what if God made people MALE and FEMALE. Both men and women can be gay! Jetboy, you are not too bright.




Some people are born blind...their abilty of sight is not there.

Some people are born without legs...their ability to walk is not there.

Some people are born deaf...their ability to hear is not there.

Some people are born without sexual organs...their ability to have sex is not there.

Some people are born with both sexual organs...their ability to have sex IS there...but they must violate Gods words to do it.


Many people are born without the ability to do many things...why do you place such importance on sex?


"“'Teacher,' his disciples asked him, 'why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins or those of his parents?' 'It was not because of his sins or his parents' sins,' Jesus answered. 'He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him'” (John 9:2-3)."
Seems that being born a hermaphrodite is the only thing you could come up with that violates God's law. Now why on earth can those people not have sex? Blind people don't sin by having eye transplants. People who don't have limbs don't sin by having prosthetics. How on earth could someone be a sinner just by using the sexual organs that GOD gave them?
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Originally posted by jetboy:
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ALL animals (humans included) exhibit homosexual behavior.



Whoa!!!! You may be willing to classify YOURSELF as an animal to further your agenda. I am in no way an animal.


Now that I think of it...it does make sense... Wink


You are either a plant, animal, or mineral. So take your pick. People are animals. And people are born gay every single day. To say that God creates people to be sinners is to deny the choice that God gave us with free will. You cannot will yourself to be gay any more than you can will yourself to be taller, have a different eye color, or anything else that is controlled by genetics. People who think that being gay is some horrible plague are just as unevolved as the ones who burned witches in Salem, kept slaves in the South, and practice female genital mutilation in Africa. Those beliefs are old, outdated, and ignorant.
Pay special attention to 29 - 31 of that passage:

29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,

30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;

31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.


I've seen plenty of the characteristics in bold above on these forums and no one rallies against those people like they do the ones that are gay. Why is that? Why pick and choose like you do?
quote:
Originally posted by David L.:
TSC, just ignore these homophobes - it is a waste of time. Jetboy obviously has issues and he does not know any gay people (or he thinks he hasn't). I've never seen a bigger moron on this forum.
It just makes me so mad to see someone take the word of Jesus - who promoted LOVE and acceptance and tolerance - and try to make it into something ugly and twisted. I just can't for the life of me figure out how people can't see the similarities between using the Bible to justify owning slaves and using the Bible to justify persecuting gay people. It is abhorrent, backwards, and ignorant. I will have to take your advice and leave this alone though. Otherwise I'm going to give myself high blood pressure!

Peace ~
TSC
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
quote:
Originally posted by jetboy:
quote:
ALL animals (humans included) exhibit homosexual behavior.



Whoa!!!! You may be willing to classify YOURSELF as an animal to further your agenda. I am in no way an animal.


Now that I think of it...it does make sense... Wink


You are either a plant, animal, or mineral. So take your pick. People are animals. And people are born gay every single day. To say that God creates people to be sinners is to deny the choice that God gave us with free will. You cannot will yourself to be gay any more than you can will yourself to be taller, have a different eye color, or anything else that is controlled by genetics. People who think that being gay is some horrible plague are just as unevolved as the ones who burned witches in Salem, kept slaves in the South, and practice female genital mutilation in Africa. Those beliefs are old, outdated, and ignorant.
......TSC, I believe he is plant. Probably needs watering.
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It just makes me so mad to see someone take the word of Jesus - who promoted LOVE and acceptance and tolerance - and try to make it into something ugly and twisted. I just can't for the life of me figure out how people can't see the similarities between using the Bible to justify owning slaves and using the Bible to justify persecuting gay people. It is abhorrent, backwards, and ignorant. I will have to take your advice and leave this alone though. Otherwise I'm going to give myself high blood pressure!




You are bringing up the (old law) and trying to apply it here. God was against homosexuality in the old testament. The coming of Jesus (new law) fulfilled some of those laws. In the new testament you will find it written quite clear that God still feels the same way about homosexuality. The verses I will post below fits to a tee most of the posters in this thread, joy included.


"Romans 1:22-27:


Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."



This statement is so very true...


"It just makes me so mad to see someone take the word of Jesus - who promoted LOVE and acceptance and tolerance - and try to make it into something ugly and twisted."
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TSC, just ignore these homophobes - it is a waste of time. Jetboy obviously has issues and he does not know any gay people (or he thinks he doesn't). I've never seen a bigger moron on this forum.


davidl...isn't it about time for you to post that I must be a closet homosexual? thats about all I have saw out of you, other than name calling and insults.

Why dont you go to the red cross and give blood ? Oh thats right...they wont take blood from homosexuals will they? Their afraid it will be too contaminated.

Eeker
Last edited by Jetboy
quote:
Originally posted by jetboy:
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TSC, just ignore these homophobes - it is a waste of time. Jetboy obviously has issues and he does not know any gay people (or he thinks he doesn't). I've never seen a bigger moron on this forum.


davidl...isn't it about time for you to post that I must be a closet homosexual? thats about all I have saw out of you, other than name calling and insults.

Why dont you go to the red cross and give blood ? Oh thats right...they wont take blood from homosexuals will they? Their afraid it will be too contaminated.

Eeker
There are many, many people who cannot give blood. People who have spent six months or more cumulatively in the United Kingdom from 1980 through 1996 (i.e., from January 1, 1980 through December 31, 1996) cannot give blood. Those horrible, deviant, contaminated Brits!

But homosexual women can give blood. A very good friend of mine is gay and she and I donate blood together every time the Blood Mobile pulls up at our workplace. Hope you don't ever need any of her "contaminated" blood.
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There are many, many people who cannot give blood. People who have spent six months or more cumulatively in the United Kingdom from 1980 through 1996 (i.e., from January 1, 1980 through December 31, 1996) cannot give blood. Those horrible, deviant, contaminated Brits!



Not only the Brits, but any group with a desease epidemic, (mad cow in their case). Mad cow is not contracted through deviant lifestyles as you try to equate though...I can't even give you a 'good try' on that one. Roll Eyes


quote:
But homosexual women can give blood. A very good friend of mine is gay and she and I donate blood together every time the Blood Mobile pulls up at our workplace. Hope you don't ever need any of her "contaminated" blood.


Never said they couldn't...I was speaking to a 'male'...(I think)??? Wink

Just hope a male homosexual doesn't have a family member that needs their particular blood type. It would be a bad situation to lose someone because of a deviant sexual lyfestyle.
quote:
"Romans 1:22-27:


Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."



This statement is so very true...


"It just makes me so mad to see someone take the word of Jesus - who promoted LOVE and acceptance and tolerance - and try to make it into something ugly and twisted."




Didn't want to touch that one did you tsc?
quote:
Originally posted by jetboy:
quote:
"Romans 1:22-27:
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."



This statement is so very true...


"It just makes me so mad to see someone take the word of Jesus - who promoted LOVE and acceptance and tolerance - and try to make it into something ugly and twisted."


Didn't want to touch that one did you tsc?
Not sure what you wanted me to "touch" on that one JB. Romans 1:22 - 27? Let's see... it starts out talking about idols and images. Then talked about people allowing themselves to be overtaken by lusts (like John Edwards, for example). They dishonored their bodies, changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped something other than God.

Then, according to Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, addressing theology students in Toronto, said an oft-quoted passage in Paul's Epistle to the Romans meant to warn Christians not to be self-righteous when they see others fall into sin. "Paul is making a primary point not about homosexuality but about the delusions of the supposedly law-abiding."

Go further and read verses 28 - 32:
[28]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Paul was talking about all kinds of sin and fornication and deceit, murder, envy, etc... he was not calling out gays, but rather he was calling out the Christians who turn on their own self-rightous halos while chastising others. It is a great deflection from your own moral short-comings (envy, covetousness, maliciousness, deceit, gossip, proudfulness, boasting, disobying your parents) to call attention to someone else's. I think that is what the majority of the homophobes are trying to do. Again Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior did not have one single thing to say about homosexuality. That speaks volumes to me.
"
Jesus also never said anything directly about rape, incest or domestic violence. Are those things okay, too?


Many teachings and deeds of Christ are not included in the Gospel accounts, as John writes in John 21:25.


Christ did say that God created people ?in the beginning? as male and female, and that marriage is the union of one man and one woman joined together as ?one flesh? (Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9). Nothing is said about any other type of union.


When He discussed sexual morality, Christ had a very high standard, clearly affirming long-standing Jewish law. He told the woman caught in adultery to ?Go and sin no more? (John 8:11). He warned people not only that the act of adultery was wrong, but even adulterous thoughts (Matthew 5:28). And he confronted the woman at the well (John 4:18) by pointing out to her that he knew she was living with a man who was not her husband. If he had intended to change this longtime understanding of God?s requirements for human sexuality, He would have said so.


Christ used the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of God?s wrath (Matthew 10:15, Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12 and Luke 17:29). Throughout the Old Testament, prophets clearly described these cities as being notorious for the practice of homosexuality (Genesis 18:20, Genesis 19:4-5, Isaiah 3:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Ezekiel 16:46-59). Jesus certainly knew that this was how the comparison would be understood.


Christ was God incarnate (in the flesh) here on earth. He was the long-expected Messiah, which was revealed in Matthew 16:13-20, Matthew 17:5-9, Mark 8:27-30, Luke 4:16-30, Luke 9:18-21, John 4:25-26, John 8:57-59 and elsewhere. As one with God, He was present from the beginning (John 1:1-13; Colossians 1:15-17; Ephesians 3:9 and elsewhere). So, Jesus was part of the Godhead as the laws were handed down through Moses to Israel and eventually to the whole world. This Old Testament law clearly prohibited homosexuality (Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13; Deuteronomy 23:17 and elsewhere). The apostles understood this also, as shown by Paul?s writing in Romans 1:24-27, Peter?s in 2 Peter 2:4-22, and John?s in Revelation 22:15.

So ? the apostles, who were taught by Christ, clearly understood that homosexuality was a sin as it has always been. When people say, ?Jesus said nothing about homosexuality,? they reveal that they really haven?t understood Scripture, or Who Christ is. Maybe some of these points can help them toward a clearer understanding. "
TNT show me where it says it is not OK to be gay. And then I'll show you were it says it is not OK to eat shrimp. It is not ok to wear cotton/wool blend socks. It is not ok to have sex while you have your period. It is not ok for you (as a woman) to speak in church. It is not ok to divorce except for adultry. It is not ok to remarry after divorce unless you are the one who was cheated on. It is not ok for men to shave. It is not ok to have braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothes.

Why all the attention to something that is going on in two consenting adult's bedroom???
quote:
TNT show me where it says it is not OK to be gay. And then I'll show you were it says it is not OK to eat shrimp. It is not ok to wear cotton/wool blend socks. It is not ok to have sex while you have your period. It is not ok for you (as a woman) to speak in church. It is not ok to divorce except for adultry. It is not ok to remarry after divorce unless you are the one who was cheated on. It is not ok for men to shave. It is not ok to have braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothes.



Again you try to confuse old law with new law. It is irrelevant however. It doesn't matter what you think of the old laws...God said it was law therefore it is. It still doesn't change homosexuality being an abomination.


quote:
Why all the attention to something that is going on in two consenting adult's bedroom???


Thats not the case though is it? I for one don't want a homosexual teaching my child in school. Nor do I want the school teaching my child homosexuality is acceptable .
quote:
Originally posted by T S C:
TNT show me where it says it is not OK to be gay. And then I'll show you were it says it is not OK to eat shrimp. It is not ok to wear cotton/wool blend socks. It is not ok to have sex while you have your period. It is not ok for you (as a woman) to speak in church. It is not ok to divorce except for adultry. It is not ok to remarry after divorce unless you are the one who was cheated on. It is not ok for men to shave. It is not ok to have braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothes.

Why all the attention to something that is going on in two consenting adult's bedroom???


Right on!....... great comment!...... so very true too!........
quote:
Originally posted by jetboy:
quote:
TNT show me where it says it is not OK to be gay. And then I'll show you were it says it is not OK to eat shrimp. It is not ok to wear cotton/wool blend socks. It is not ok to have sex while you have your period. It is not ok for you (as a woman) to speak in church. It is not ok to divorce except for adultry. It is not ok to remarry after divorce unless you are the one who was cheated on. It is not ok for men to shave. It is not ok to have braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothes.



Again you try to confuse old law with new law. It is irrelevant however. It doesn't matter what you think of the old laws...God said it was law therefore it is. It still doesn't change homosexuality being an abomination.


quote:
Why all the attention to something that is going on in two consenting adult's bedroom???


Thats not the case though is it? I for one don't want a homosexual teaching my child in school. Nor do I want the school teaching my child homosexuality is acceptable .


I am not confused in the least, JetBoy.

Tell me where in the New Testament Jesus the Christ, the Mesiah, says that any of the laws of the Old Testament do not apply any more. He does NOT say any such thing. As to what laws are old and which are new:

1 Timothy 2:9

Women, for their part, should display their beauty by dressing modestly and decently in appropriate clothes, not by braiding their hair or by wearing gold, pearls, or expensive clothes.

1 Corinthians 14:33-38

As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord. If any one does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

Divorce is never permissible.
Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Matthew 19:6

Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery. -- Mark 10:11

Whosoever putteth away his wife and marrieth another, committeth adultery. -- Luke 16:18

I don't see you all up in arms about divorced people, women having braided hair, jewelry, expensive clothes, speaking in church, or any of the other things explicitly taught against in the New Testament. Why not??

Now, please, show me where in the New Testament, in the NEW LAW as you like to call it, where did Jesus Christ say that being gay was a sin, was bad, was an abomination, or anything of the sort? The fact is - He did not. The only place you find it is in your OLD LAWS which you choose to discount and toss aside when they don't suit your pleasure. It saddens me that you fear those things about which you are ignorant so much that it consumes you.
"Matt 5:17-18 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."


Jesus did not come to ABOLISH any law. Some have been fulfilled, some have not. The law is already in place concerning homosexuals, Jesus didn't need to restate it.


Please note...Jesus also speaks about the prophets. Do you not understand what Paul said was with Jesus's approval?
quote:
Originally posted by jetboy:
"
Jesus also never said anything directly about rape, incest or domestic violence. Are those things okay, too?


Many teachings and deeds of Christ are not included in the Gospel accounts, as John writes in John 21:25.


Christ did say that God created people ?in the beginning? as male and female, and that marriage is the union of one man and one woman joined together as ?one flesh? (Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9). Nothing is said about any other type of union.


When He discussed sexual morality, Christ had a very high standard, clearly affirming long-standing Jewish law. He told the woman caught in adultery to ?Go and sin no more? (John 8:11). He warned people not only that the act of adultery was wrong, but even adulterous thoughts (Matthew 5:28). And he confronted the woman at the well (John 4:18) by pointing out to her that he knew she was living with a man who was not her husband. If he had intended to change this longtime understanding of God?s requirements for human sexuality, He would have said so.


Christ used the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of God?s wrath (Matthew 10:15, Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12 and Luke 17:29). Throughout the Old Testament, prophets clearly described these cities as being notorious for the practice of homosexuality (Genesis 18:20, Genesis 19:4-5, Isaiah 3:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Ezekiel 16:46-59). Jesus certainly knew that this was how the comparison would be understood.


Christ was God incarnate (in the flesh) here on earth. He was the long-expected Messiah, which was revealed in Matthew 16:13-20, Matthew 17:5-9, Mark 8:27-30, Luke 4:16-30, Luke 9:18-21, John 4:25-26, John 8:57-59 and elsewhere. As one with God, He was present from the beginning (John 1:1-13; Colossians 1:15-17; Ephesians 3:9 and elsewhere). So, Jesus was part of the Godhead as the laws were handed down through Moses to Israel and eventually to the whole world. This Old Testament law clearly prohibited homosexuality (Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13; Deuteronomy 23:17 and elsewhere). The apostles understood this also, as shown by Paul?s writing in Romans 1:24-27, Peter?s in 2 Peter 2:4-22, and John?s in Revelation 22:15.

So ? the apostles, who were taught by Christ, clearly understood that homosexuality was a sin as it has always been. When people say, ?Jesus said nothing about homosexuality,? they reveal that they really haven?t understood Scripture, or Who Christ is. Maybe some of these points can help them toward a clearer understanding. "


Jetboy googles when he doesn't know what to say.
You know, since I first visited this forum..with no thoughts of homosexuals even remotely in my mind...all I have seen is the homosexuals flaunting their "sexuality" in everyones face, pretty much saying, 'you have to accept me or your are mean'...Now, if they had never mentioned their 'lifestyle' how could anyone have criticized them? I did not come on saying, 'Hey, you guys, I am hetero, and you better like it or you are a heterophob!!!
And, btw, where does the "phob" come from? What is there to be afraid of?? I think everyone should keep their sexuality in the closet. Our sex lives should be personal, not on public display. If the homosexuals weren't in everyone's face maybe people would be less vocal about it.
quote:
You know, since I first visited this forum..with no thoughts of homosexuals even remotely in my mind...all I have seen is the homosexuals flaunting their "sexuality" in everyones face, pretty much saying, 'you have to accept me or your are mean'...Now, if they had never mentioned their 'lifestyle' how could anyone have criticized them? I did not come on saying, 'Hey, you guys, I am hetero, and you better like it or you are a heterophob!!!
And, btw, where does the "phob" come from? What is there to be afraid of?? I think everyone should keep their sexuality in the closet. Our sex lives should be personal, not on public display. If the homosexuals weren't in everyone's face maybe people would be less vocal about it.




Well put... Wink

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