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Waterboarding Republicans vs. Supporting Our Troops

By Stephen Crockett

For those Republicans (or Democrats) who defend waterboarding as something less than torture, I have a proposal. Whenever a Bush Administration official is called before the House or Senate to testify, they should be waterboarded the entire time they are testifying. The technique, according to the Bush Republicans, elicits honest answers and does not amount to torture. According to these Bush Republicans, waterboarding does not cause any lasting damage.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18703.htm
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Excellent suggestion!

The Bush maladministration's sleazy attempts at justification for the use of torture is a repulsive thing to me. This technique has long been regarded to be torture and these neocon alarmists can not justify its use when there are other, proven techniques of interrogation NOT involving torture that have proven more effective and dependable.
You guys would be the first to blame Bush if there was a incident but are also the first to want to tie his hands. I want all options on the table and should there be a situation where water boarding would save the lives of American citizens or even a city I wouldn't give a **** what they did.

Water boarding shouldn't be procedure but it shouldn't be off the table. Sort of like the situation as it exists.

Perhaps if you guys saw the enemy as Islamic terrorists as opposed to Bush you might have a rational take on this.
Last edited by Phoenix Rising
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
All US fighter pilots, Special Operations troops and CIA field agents undergo waterboarding as part of their survival, escape and evasion training.

Typical sessions last no more than 3 minutes. Khalid broke in 90 seconds.



I agree with what the article has to say about waterboarding.You cannot honestly say you are supporting American soldiers if you support the use of torture techniques like waterboarding. By any objective definition, waterboarding is torture. The technique is a type of simulated drowning of a prisoner who has their limbs bound.

The use of simulated drowning is not new. The Nazis used it in World War II. The Iranian secret police used it under the Shah. It was used in the Vietnam War. Dictators in South America have used this kind of torture. It causes severe psychological damage in most cases and has caused deaths. The Bush Administration claims that it is not torture but the claim is false.

Torture is a war crime. Our U.S. servicemen if caught by the enemy are only suppose to give their name, rank, and serial number and no information other than that.
Only the CIA is allowed to use waterboarding. Its forbidden by military regulations.

It is physically impossible to cause death or physical damage as practiced by the US. And, if you think I worry about causing a jehadi up to three minutes of psychological harm, think again.

Captives of the jehadim were tortured to death while being video taped. Show me where a representative of al Qaeda signed the Geneva Convention.
Again the article says it best.Torture between international combatants has been outlawed by international law and treaties. Use of torture makes the user a war criminal. The United States has long supported this position to prevent American soldiers from being tortured. American government policies, under Bush, concerning the use of torture put American soldiers at grave risk. We will have great difficulty prosecuting enemies who torture our soldiers if we engage in torture ourselves.
I hate this issue because I agree with all of you. No I don't want us to become what we hate (terrorists or criminals), but war is hell. It's never been pretty and never will be. The rules of our daily walk just don't apply when the lives of millions are at stake. It's a tough choice. Torture or let people die because we couldn't get a killer to talk. I do think it should only be allowed in extreme cases, however, and should be heavily monitored by an impartial third party or it WILL be abused. JMHO
Joy,

I have no wish to be another Torquemada. Waterboarding is about the limits I would approve. But, stress positions or cold rooms for a few hours, blaring rock music, fake rendition (make them think they're in Egypt, etc.) and the occasional open handed hand slap to the head is to me not torture. Rough handling, yes, but not torture.

We are dealing with an enemy that knows NO BOUNDS to what they will do. If time is not of the essence in gaining intelligence, I am quite comfortable with the established methods of gaining their confidence and letting them spill the beans naturally or pumping them with truth serum and let wading thru all the garbage they will spout until you get to the needed information.
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
Joy,

I have no wish to be another Torquemada. Waterboarding is about the limits I would approve. But, stress positions or cold rooms for a few hours, blaring rock music, fake rendition (make them think they're in Egypt, etc.) and the occasional open handed hand slap to the head is to me not torture. Rough handling, yes, but not torture.

We are dealing with an enemy that knows NO BOUNDS to what they will do. If time is not of the essence in gaining intelligence, I am quite comfortable with the established methods of gaining their confidence and letting them spill the beans naturally or pumping them with truth serum and let wading thru all the garbage they will spout until you get to the needed information.



Be nice to America or we'll bring democracy to your country. It is funny that we want democracy in other countries while ours slowly slips away.
quote:
Originally posted by PBA:
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
Joy,

I have no wish to be another Torquemada. Waterboarding is about the limits I would approve. But, stress positions or cold rooms for a few hours, blaring rock music, fake rendition (make them think they're in Egypt, etc.) and the occasional open handed hand slap to the head is to me not torture. Rough handling, yes, but not torture.

We are dealing with an enemy that knows NO BOUNDS to what they will do. If time is not of the essence in gaining intelligence, I am quite comfortable with the established methods of gaining their confidence and letting them spill the beans naturally or pumping them with truth serum and let wading thru all the garbage they will spout until you get to the needed information.



Be nice to America or we'll bring democracy to your country. It is funny that we want democracy in other countries while ours slowly slips away.


Where is our democracy slipping away today PBA?
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by PBA:
quote:
Originally posted by interventor:
Joy,

I have no wish to be another Torquemada. Waterboarding is about the limits I would approve. But, stress positions or cold rooms for a few hours, blaring rock music, fake rendition (make them think they're in Egypt, etc.) and the occasional open handed hand slap to the head is to me not torture. Rough handling, yes, but not torture.

We are dealing with an enemy that knows NO BOUNDS to what they will do. If time is not of the essence in gaining intelligence, I am quite comfortable with the established methods of gaining their confidence and letting them spill the beans naturally or pumping them with truth serum and let wading thru all the garbage they will spout until you get to the needed information.



Be nice to America or we'll bring democracy to your country. It is funny that we want democracy in other countries while ours slowly slips away.


Where is our democracy slipping away today PBA?



Have you read all 156 pages of the patriot act?

That might be a good start.



Lawyer's Long Fight for Democracy Puts Him in Familiar Place: Jail :

Twenty-five years ago, when President Reagan treated Pakistan's dictator, Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, to a White House state dinner, a promising young lawyer out of Cambridge University languished in jail. He had protested too loudly, and too often, about the lack of democracy in his country.
http://snipurl.com/1tlkq
Last edited by Jan55
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Pba your posts are torture to me.Maybe we can get congress to pass a resolution condemning it.



Well, there are just a couple of the many easily refuted lies and misleading nonsense that passes for thought among the Rabid Right.
All that is usually needed to negate any arguments that the Rabid Right can invent is, of course, only a mind capable of independent thought, a rare commodity within their ranks.

geddon97, You can help to think the way you do,because you were raised to think like a closed minded right winger.
Where is our democracy slipping away today PBA?[/QUOTE]


Have you read all 156 pages of the patriot act?

That might be a good start.



Lawyer's Long Fight for Democracy Puts Him in Familiar Place: Jail :

Twenty-five years ago, when President Reagan treated Pakistan's dictator, Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, to a White House state dinner, a promising young lawyer out of Cambridge University languished in jail. He had protested too loudly, and too often, about the lack of democracy in his country.
http://snipurl.com/1tlkq[/QUOTE]

What the hell does your link about Pakistan have to do with democracy slipping in the US? I know you reach for you data but even for you this is a stretch.
My parent were yellow dog democrats.Far from closed minded right wingers.
quote:
Originally posted by PBA:
quote:
Originally posted by geddon97:
Pba your posts are torture to me.Maybe we can get congress to pass a resolution condemning it.



Well, there are just a couple of the many easily refuted lies and misleading nonsense that passes for thought among the Rabid Right.
All that is usually needed to negate any arguments that the Rabid Right can invent is, of course, only a mind capable of independent thought, a rare commodity within their ranks.

geddon97, You can help to think the way you do,because you were raised to think like a closed minded right winger.
Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis were great dixicrats that my father voted for.Me thinks they were far from being republican lite.
quote:
Originally posted by PBA:
My parent were yellow dog democrats.Far from closed minded right wingers.

Yellow and blue dog democrats are only dixiecrats of the south. Better known as the republican lite.

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