Welfare Tab for Children of Illegal Immigrants Estimated at $600M in L.A. County

I heard on TV last night that the cost to hospitals, of treating people without insurance nationwide is $60 Billion.
It ain't just Mexicans , it's also people without health insurance.

I know ya'll are gonna beat me to death over this but, those uninsured masses ain't too happy about it either.

A guy has a wife and two kids. He works for $8.00 an hour. He buys groceries, pays rent, utilities, telephone, clothes, gasoline,and a vehicle payment. He wishes he could buy health insurance. He also wishes he could buy a pepsi when he takes his lunch break.

That's why I keep telling my kids to do their best in school and get an education. A man with a wife and 2 kids making $8 an hour did not do a good job of planning. get an education, develop a skill, and make yourself worth more than $8 an hour.

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:
I heard on TV last night that the cost to hospitals, of treating people without insurance nationwide is $60 Billion.
It ain't just Mexicans , it's also people without health insurance.

But the hospitals then add extra charges to my bill or your bill so they do get their money, off us. When we add 32 million more to Medicaid, you and I will pay even more. That mandate for insurance may be declared unconstitutional, then there goes the funding for Obamacare, and now guess who pays for those healthcare changes?

quote:

Originally posted by b50m:

quote:

Originally posted by seeweed:
I heard on TV last night that the cost to hospitals, of treating people without insurance nationwide is $60 Billion.
It ain't just Mexicans , it's also people without health insurance.

But the hospitals then add extra charges to my bill or your bill so they do get their money, off us. When we add 32 million more to Medicaid, you and I will pay even more. That mandate for insurance may be declared unconstitutional, then there goes the funding for Obamacare, and now guess who pays for those healthcare changes?

The Defense Department. Even at 2008 spending levels, the FY2011 deficit is over $1trillion...no one is paying their own way

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
Before all the liberals get all crazy I'm not advocating throwing all the kids out to the street. This is just an example of one of the things wrong with this country. The anchor baby amendment has to be changed. We are the only civilized country in the world with such a policy. Can you imagine what the cost is to the entire country? Of course I am quoting a FOX news source so I guess you must take it with a grain of salt all you Foxophiles.

http://www.foxnews.com/politic...imated-m-la-county/#

The 14th amendment plainly states that any person born in the United States is a citizen. That is one of the things that makes America great and birthright citizenship should not be taken away.
I keep hearing people say they are against "illegal immigration" not "legal immigration". So anyway, why are so many of these people trying to make it harder to come here legally? Why are so many people that say they are not against legal immigration lashing out against people who have used this form of legal immigration? Is the reason all these folks say they are not against legal immigration saying that because they intend to do all they can to take away the few remaining ways someone can legally come here to live?

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
That's why I keep telling my kids to do their best in school and get an education. A man with a wife and 2 kids making $8 an hour did not do a good job of planning. get an education, develop a skill, and make yourself worth more than $8 an hour.

That may be true but we can't all be the elite. Somebody is gonna have to take those $8.00 an hour jobs. Some people didn't have the option of attending college or even a trade school. Most people born in poverty have to devote their time working to survive.

quote:

Before all the liberals get all crazy I'm not advocating throwing all the kids out to the street. This is just an example of one of the things wrong with this country. The anchor baby amendment has to be changed. We are the only civilized country in the world with such a policy. Can you imagine what the cost is to the entire country? Of course I am quoting a FOX news source so I guess you must take it with a grain of salt all you Foxophiles.

If they don't like the fact that Fox reported it they can go to state's sites and see what it costs them. Anyone remember AZ?

quote:

Originally posted by BFred07:

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
Before all the liberals get all crazy I'm not advocating throwing all the kids out to the street. This is just an example of one of the things wrong with this country. The anchor baby amendment has to be changed. We are the only civilized country in the world with such a policy. Can you imagine what the cost is to the entire country? Of course I am quoting a FOX news source so I guess you must take it with a grain of salt all you Foxophiles.

http://www.foxnews.com/politic...imated-m-la-county/#

The 14th amendment plainly states that ant person born in the United States is a citizen. That is one of the things that makes America great and birthright citizenship should not be taken away.
I keep hearing people say they are against "illegal immigration" not "legal immigration". So anyway, why are so many of these people trying to make it harder to come here legally? Why are so many people that say they are not against legal immigration come out against people who have used this form of legal immigration?

Sorry Fred, that bird won't fly. The original concept of the 14th amendment was to make children of former slaves US citizens, as they should have been. Children of "legal" immigrants should be US citizens. Haven't heard anyone argue otherwise. Children of "illegal" immigrants should not be US citizens given that the parents were here "illegally" to begin with. This is NOT a form of legal immigration as you call it. It is a form of "illegal" immigrants using a loophole to have their children become US citizens and allowing them to use federal money for their gain.

quote:

Originally posted by bluetick:

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
That's why I keep telling my kids to do their best in school and get an education. A man with a wife and 2 kids making $8 an hour did not do a good job of planning. get an education, develop a skill, and make yourself worth more than $8 an hour.

That may be true but we can't all be the elite. Somebody is gonna have to take those $8.00 an hour jobs. Some people didn't have the option of attending college or even a trade school. Most people born in poverty have to devote their time working to survive.

Learning a skill and haveing a good work ethic is not what I consider elite. The $8 an hour jobs is what the teens should be doing, if you can get them to work. You don't hire into good jobs right out of school, you have to work your way up the ladder. Too many people are afraid of the first rung of the ladder.

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:

Sorry Fred, that bird won't fly. The original concept of the 14th amendment was to make children of former slaves US citizens, as they should have been. Children of "legal" immigrants should be US citizens. Haven't heard anyone argue otherwise. Children of "illegal" immigrants should not be US citizens given that the parents were here "illegally" to begin with. This is NOT a form of legal immigration as you call it. It is a form of "illegal" immigrants using a loophole to have their children become US citizens and allowing them to use federal money for their gain.

Krap, you quoted me before I corrected some grammar errors
Even if it's considered a loophole by some, it's still legal. Most of the illegals that live here and have had children while living here are not on any sort of welfare, I would bet that the percentage of immigrants (legal or not) receiving some form of welfare is probably less than what the percentage of citizens who have lived here their whole lives.
By forms of welfare I am referencing medicaid, housing assistance, EIC, food stamps, mortgage interest credit, and basically any other handout people receive from the government. The solution to the problems listed here are both a comprehensive immigration reform that helps insure that those who would likely be assets to the USA have a shot at a road to citizenship. Another thing that is needed is some broad welfare reform to insure that people do not just become squatters on the welfare system.

As of today, yes it is legal. That doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean we shouldn't change it. As far as your welfare statements, I have no idea. I would probably tend to not agree with you. I do know the percentage of illegals in our prison systems are high. I agree we need immigration reform. There is already a path for US citizenship. I would think a temporary work permit would be better. Collect our due taxes and if they have children born while they're here working legally, they'll become Mexican citizens or wherever they're from.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
That's why I keep telling my kids to do their best in school and get an education. A man with a wife and 2 kids making $8 an hour did not do a good job of planning. get an education, develop a skill, and make yourself worth more than $8 an hour.

quote:

Learning a skill and haveing a good work ethic is not what I consider elite. The $8 an hour jobs is what the teens should be doing, if you can get them to work. You don't hire into good jobs right out of school, you have to work your way up the ladder. Too many people are afraid of the first rung of the ladder.

Sorry, ferellj, but I would think the current jobs/economic evidence would blow the "planning/education/skill" theory out of the water. There are job postings for $10hr...or less, REQUIRING degrees, and PLENTY of skilled/educated/dedicated people having to take the $8 an hour jobs.

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
There is already a path for US citizenship.

Only for a very few who have the money to get on that path. It does not matter how good of a person you are, how educated you are, how skilled you are, or even if you're married to an American citizen, it does not matter what you can bring to the table except for MONEY. If you ain't got a lot of money to pay fees, travel around to get legal crap done, and pay an attorney then you ain't staying here legally if you aren't a natural born citizen. We need immigration reform now. BTW, we should secure our borders too, seems funny that our country has by far the most advanced military the world has ever seen and can't keep folks from walking across our border illegally. I think if the "want to" was there then it could be secured within 24 hours.

quote:

Originally posted by BFred07:

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:

Sorry Fred, that bird won't fly. The original concept of the 14th amendment was to make children of former slaves US citizens, as they should have been. Children of "legal" immigrants should be US citizens. Haven't heard anyone argue otherwise. Children of "illegal" immigrants should not be US citizens given that the parents were here "illegally" to begin with. This is NOT a form of legal immigration as you call it. It is a form of "illegal" immigrants using a loophole to have their children become US citizens and allowing them to use federal money for their gain.

Krap, you quoted me before I corrected some grammar errors
Even if it's considered a loophole by some, it's still legal. Most of the illegals that live here and have had children while living here are not on any sort of welfare, I would bet that the percentage of immigrants (legal or not) receiving some form of welfare is probably less than what the percentage of citizens who have lived here their whole lives.
By forms of welfare I am referencing medicaid, housing assistance, EIC, food stamps, mortgage interest credit, and basically any other handout people receive from the government. The solution to the problems listed here are both a comprehensive immigration reform that helps insure that those who would likely be assets to the USA have a shot at a road to citizenship. Another thing that is needed is some broad welfare reform to insure that people do not just become squatters on the welfare system.

Those social nets are for legal citizens so they deserve them not illegals.

quote:

We are the only civilized country in the world with such a policy. Can you imagine what the cost is to the entire country? Of course I am quoting a FOX news source so I guess you must take it with a grain of salt all you Foxophiles.

I could have SWORN Canada was a civilized country!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli



Now, before you get in a huff, I DO realize we need immigration reform, both for the sake of the US taxpayer, AND for those who would LIKE to become legal but find that the money it costs and the time they have to wait are prohibitive.

But I couldn't resist pointing out that Beck got it wrong AGAIN. He either doesn't do his research, or he just out and out lies about these things. Either way, I would question ANYTHING he says.

More on the 14th amendment.

Additional doubts about the scope of the Fourteenth Amendment were fueled by the Supreme Court's decision in Plyler v. Doe, which held that “the Fourteenth Amendment extends to anyone, citizen or stranger, who is subject to the laws of a State, and reaches into every corner of a State’s territory. That a person’s initial entry into a State, or into the United States, was unlawful, and that he may for that reason be expelled, cannot negate the simple fact of his presence within the State’s territorial perimeter.” But the Plyler Court did not address the citizenship clause in the first sentence of Section 1 of the 14th Amendment, but addressed instead the equal protection clause at the end of the second sentence. Because many readers do not notice that Plyler addressed, without analysis or history, the meaning of "within its jurisdiction", not the very different phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof," casual readers misunderstand the meaning of Plyler. Some careful readers have purposefully fostered this misunderstanding.

quote:

Originally posted by HIFLYER2:

Those social nets are for legal citizens so they deserve them not illegals.

I am not an advocate of illegals receiving welfare benefits and for the most part they can't. As for legal citizens receiving welfare, I don't mind helping someone get on their feet but these people with no freakin ambition whatsoever that lay around on my dime year after year needs to be stopped.

quote:

Originally posted by BFred07:

quote:

Originally posted by HIFLYER2:

Those social nets are for legal citizens so they deserve them not illegals.

I am not an advocate of illegals receiving welfare benefits and for the most part they can't. As for legal citizens receiving welfare, I don't mind helping someone get on their feet but these people with no freakin ambition whatsoever that lay around on my dime year after year needs to be stopped.

We agree on that, I am just saying American's deserve help illegals do not. Yes, technically illegals do not qualify for aid but their anchor baby does and a baby has to have a place to live and food etc. that is how illegals back door the system.

If the US controlled its borders as it legally should, the costs for illegal immigrants would, obviously, be much lower.

Control the borders and I'm willing to talk about a limited amnesty and upping the legal immigrant limits. Last amnesty they promised to control the borders after the amnesty passed. Fool me once, but no more!

quote:

Originally posted by BFred07:

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
There is already a path for US citizenship.

Only for a very few who have the money to get on that path. It does not matter how good of a person you are, how educated you are, how skilled you are, or even if you're married to an American citizen, it does not matter what you can bring to the table except for MONEY. If you ain't got a lot of money to pay fees, travel around to get legal crap done, and pay an attorney then you ain't staying here legally if you aren't a natural born citizen. We need immigration reform now. BTW, we should secure our borders too, seems funny that our country has by far the most advanced military the world has ever seen and can't keep folks from walking across our border illegally. I think if the "want to" was there then it could be secured within 24 hours.

About 700,000 are granted US citizenship annually. That's a lot of rich people.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/as..._Sec508Compliant.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by CageTheElephant:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
That's why I keep telling my kids to do their best in school and get an education. A man with a wife and 2 kids making $8 an hour did not do a good job of planning. get an education, develop a skill, and make yourself worth more than $8 an hour.

quote:

Learning a skill and haveing a good work ethic is not what I consider elite. The $8 an hour jobs is what the teens should be doing, if you can get them to work. You don't hire into good jobs right out of school, you have to work your way up the ladder. Too many people are afraid of the first rung of the ladder.

Sorry, ferellj, but I would think the current jobs/economic evidence would blow the "planning/education/skill" theory out of the water. There are job postings for $10hr...or less, REQUIRING degrees, and PLENTY of skilled/educated/dedicated people having to take the $8 an hour jobs.

You are right about the current conditions which are far from ordinary. Under more normal conditions I still stand by my stance.

quote:

Originally posted by BFred07:

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
There is already a path for US citizenship.

Only for a very few who have the money to get on that path. It does not matter how good of a person you are, how educated you are, how skilled you are, or even if you're married to an American citizen, it does not matter what you can bring to the table except for MONEY. If you ain't got a lot of money to pay fees, travel around to get legal crap done, and pay an attorney then you ain't staying here legally if you aren't a natural born citizen. We need immigration reform now. BTW, we should secure our borders too, seems funny that our country has by far the most advanced military the world has ever seen and can't keep folks from walking across our border illegally. I think if the "want to" was there then it could be secured within 24 hours.

You are correct, we could seal the border immediately if we "wanted" to. The means to become a citizen could probably be reformed but there has to be a little more to it than just signing up.

quote:

Originally posted by O No!:

quote:

We are the only civilized country in the world with such a policy. Can you imagine what the cost is to the entire country? Of course I am quoting a FOX news source so I guess you must take it with a grain of salt all you Foxophiles.

I could have SWORN Canada was a civilized country!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli



Now, before you get in a huff, I DO realize we need immigration reform, both for the sake of the US taxpayer, AND for those who would LIKE to become legal but find that the money it costs and the time they have to wait are prohibitive.

But I couldn't resist pointing out that Beck got it wrong AGAIN. He either doesn't do his research, or he just out and out lies about these things. Either way, I would question ANYTHING he says.

You are correct and I was wrong. We are one of about 20% in the world that has that policy, 80% does not.

I like the way Germany does it. If you have any relatives from there, you are a citizen. That makes me a German citizen.

Guten Tag!

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:

You are correct, we could seal the border immediately if we "wanted" to. The means to become a citizen could probably be reformed but there has to be a little more to it than just signing up.

It doesn't need to be too easy but neither should it require an attorney or have to be such a bureaucratic nightmare. I think the main part should be a background check and to have character references for someone to get some type of probationary visa so that they can live and/or work here. I think it should be much easier to get your foot in the door than it is but I don't think that after only 5 years of living here legally that someone should be able to apply for citizenship (as it is now). I think it should be at least ten and that during that 10 years if someone commits a crime, can't keep a steady job/income, or is not in school then they should be sent back to whatever country they came from. I am pretty liberal about wanting to give people a chance but am probably a bit more harsh than most about what a person would have to do for them to stay on the road to citizenship.

http://video.search.yahoo.com/...+coma+costs+millions

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:

quote:

Originally posted by CageTheElephant:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
That's why I keep telling my kids to do their best in school and get an education. A man with a wife and 2 kids making $8 an hour did not do a good job of planning. get an education, develop a skill, and make yourself worth more than $8 an hour.

quote:

Learning a skill and haveing a good work ethic is not what I consider elite. The $8 an hour jobs is what the teens should be doing, if you can get them to work. You don't hire into good jobs right out of school, you have to work your way up the ladder. Too many people are afraid of the first rung of the ladder.

Sorry, ferellj, but I would think the current jobs/economic evidence would blow the "planning/education/skill" theory out of the water. There are job postings for $10hr...or less, REQUIRING degrees, and PLENTY of skilled/educated/dedicated people having to take the $8 an hour jobs.

You are right about the current conditions which are far from ordinary. Under more normal conditions I still stand by my stance.

However, those with a degree have an unemployment rate of about 5.1 percent.

You have to prepare yourself for a future.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribun...er-45-hit-highs.html

1)Better boarder security.. (a good reason to bring some of our 'boys' home.
2)Change naturalization laws. Info from The Washington Post On citizenship by virtue of birth:

Like the United States, France, India, Ireland, Mexico and New Zealand all automatically confer citizenship on anyone born within their territory, regardless of the citizenship of the child's parents. Canada has the same law, unless the parents are illegally present in the country.

Belgium, China, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, the Netherlands and Switzerland, among many others, do not recognize automatic citizenship by birth -- although exceptions may be made for orphans.

Somewhere between these two poles fall the policies of Australia, Austria and the United Kingdom. Citizenship is only conferred upon children born on those countries' territory if at least one of their parents is a citizen or permanent resident. In Austria, even if the father is an Austrian citizen, if the child is born out of wedlock and the mother is a foreigner, the kid's out of luck.

3) Develop a system to help people graduate off the welfare system. As it is now, you either qualify or get dumped..How about partial assistance during a weaning process?

First, we won't have to wait much longer for the borders to be secured; at the rate things are going, the drug cartels will force our hand, one way or the other.
Second, I always love it when someone gets on a forum and talks about how they love/like how another country does something. Sure, we can learn from other nations, but try going to that country (to live) and see how far you get.
We will never get back to the level of national stability or international standing that we've enjoyed in the past until we can reform welfare. When we have people getting money from the government that contribute absolutely nothing to the GDP vs. people standing in line (in China) for jobs peeling plastic off copper wire for $2/day, there is an imbalance there that won't go away. I'm NOT saying there shouldn't be welfare, but those who can do ANYTHING should be expected to do SOMETHING. The days of "wine and roses" are coming to a screeching halt. You are about to witness it in states such as IL, CA, NJ, to name a few.