Near-Death Experiences: 30 Years of Research - Part 1

 

DURHAM, N.C.—Grandma was just resuscitated. She wakes up and tells

you a  bizarre story of coming out of her body and going to heaven.

Has she  developed psychosis? Was her brain damaged from

the lack of oxygen?
After over 30 years of research, scientists have concluded that this is 

not the case. Instead, they think that this phenomenon is something 

today’s science is yet to understand, and that it is an opportunity for 

the advancement of science.

The phenomenon was coined near-death experiences (NDEs) in the

1975 book  “Life After Life” by Raymond Moody, M.D. and Ph.D. in philosophy

 and  psychology. NDEs generally include cognitive, affective,

paranormal, and  transcendental experiences.

Examplesof NDEs include experiencing a change in one’s perception and 

way of thinking, feeling peace or calmness, gaining extrasensory  perception

(ESP), going through a review of one’s life and seeing the  effects of one’s

actions on others, a feeling of leaving the body,  seeing deceased people

and other beings such as angels, and feeling as  if one has entered

another dimension.

 

 NDEs are encountered by people of all backgrounds, and most studies

find the prevalence of NDEs to be 10–20 percent of people who have come

close to death.
Interest in studying NDEs was sparked after the publication of Moody’s book.

Then in 1981, the International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS)

was founded “to promote responsible, multi-disciplinary exploration of

near-death and similar experiences, their effects on people’s lives, and their

 implications for beliefs about life, death, and human purpose,” according to

 the IANDS website.

On Sept. 2–4, IANDS organized a conference in Durham, N.C.,

for NDE researchers to present their findings.

 

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/index2.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61547&pop=1&page=0&Itemid=1

 

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Original Post

Invictus,

 

With NDE you come up against the same obstacles that anyone else does.  Christians attempt to testify to the Changes that they experienced in their life account of God's Holy Spirit's baptism.  Christians attempt to share their conversion experiences and yet it all comes down to if another person will accept what you say as valid.  Often it is difficult to have someone who has not had such experiences to believe your testimony.  NDE's are responsible for a total change in the direction of many people's lives.  Sometimes those changes are so profound that they adopt new careers or up and move and rededicate their lives in a 180 degree direction from which they were headed before the NDE. 

 

Like Christians who testify to a total transformation of their lives and who will maintain their faith even in the face of death or persecution the changes in a person's life are not sufficient to prove to people that what they say is valid.  For some it should be cause to question it but since it is not physical proof, for many, it carries no weight.  It is to each to accept or reject that each persons account of what they experienced is real or factual.  Even testimony that recounts activities in a surgical room where a person is totally out or referencing things that could only be seen from up high, far above the height of anyone in the room, does not seem convincing to some that a person had an out of body experience.  Then again NDE and Out of Body Experiences are two different things, at times.

 

As I said none of these changes or accounts is factual proof that it is valid but at the least it should give reason to investigate it further and at least consider it's possibility or that there is something to the reports.

 

Just my opinion.

I believe in near death experiences, but not all reported are real. Most experiences are very similar and come to an end at a threshold or crossing. Some say they are given the choice to go on and some say they are told to go back. Unfortunately there are con artists who have used this phenomenon to their advantage. Lots of good videos on YouTube that demonstrate how ESP and second-sight is accomplished.

Hi Vic and Firenze,

I suppose it all depends upon what one classifies as a "near death experience."   Yes, many people have been "near death" and have been revived.   No doubt, many of them were believers who knew of God and heaven -- and many may be non-believers, that in Sunday School and some other venue, have heard of God and heaven.  In those cases, is it extreme to think that they could be dreaming or that their minds are playing a trick on them -- making them believe they saw God and/or heaven?

But, to say that one does have a "near death experience" and actually enters heaven, or even actually is given an inside preview of heaven -- is not Biblical.

1 Corinthians 15:50-53, "Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.  Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.  For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."

To "inherit the kingdom of God" means to enter heaven.  This Scripture passage tells us clearly that man in his mortal body CANNOT enter heaven.  The only way man's body can enter heaven is through Jesus Christ at the Rapture -- when our mortal bodies become immortal, eternal bodies, cleansed of the curse of all sin.

Before the Rapture, all believers, in spirit, enter heaven immediately upon death.  But, no mortal body can enter heaven.  And, I do not believe there is any doubt that the person who claims to have experienced a "near death experience" is still in his/her mortal body -- even though unconscious or in a coma.

We know from Luke 16:19-31 that Abraham, all the Old Testament believers, and all the New Testament believers who died before Christ was crucified and resurrected, even the repentant thief on the cross -- were all in Hades/Paradise because they COULD NOT enter heaven without Christ.

In Ephesians 4:8 we see Christ leading "the captives free" -- in other words -- He closed Hades/Paradise forever and led those saints who had been waiting for Him -- into heaven.  Now, Paradise is in heaven -- and all believers who die before the Rapture enter Heaven/Paradise in spirit -- but, not in either their mortal or immortal bodies.

So, how do we get our immortal bodies?  Glad you asked.  Jesus Christ ascended into heaven in His immortal body (Acts 1:9-11).   After His resurrection and before His ascension -- His body, even though it was immortal, appeared like His mortal body -- in that He could fellowship, talk, and eat with His disciples.

He could enter their presence, i.e.,  in the Upper Room or on the road to Emmaus, without coming through a door, etc.  In His immortal body, which appeared like His mortal body -- He could appear and disappear at will -- as though coming from a different dimension.

And, 1 John 3:2,  tells us that we when we meet Him at the Rapture, we will be made to be like Him, in our immortal bodies,  "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be.  We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is."

Will we be God, or gods, at that time?  No.  Absolutely not.  We will be like Him in that we will be in our immortal, eternal bodies --  in which we will exist eternally -- in the presence of God.

John 14:6, "Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

John 3:3, "Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

No one gets into heaven -- except through Him.  Not Abraham, not Moses, not Mary and Joseph, not His apostles or His disciples --  not Vic, Firenze, Bill, or anyone else.   And, most certainly not the person laying on an operating room table who appears to have died momentarily.  There is one Gate, one Way, -- and it is Jesus Christ.  We enter that Gate, that Way, only upon final death in this mortal body -- or at the Rapture.

Hebrews 9:27-28,  "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."

This Scripture passage makes it very clear.   Man will die once.  Then, comes the Rapture of the church -- then, the Judgment.

The Believers' Judgment  (Bema Seat Judgment - 2 Corinthians 5:10, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15, 1 Peter 5:4) will occur in heaven during the seven year Tribulation and before the Wedding Feast of the Lamb, i.e., the Believer's Judgment is the final preparation of the Bride for her Bridegroom, Jesus Christ.

The Non-believers' Judgment (Great White Throne Judgment - Rev 20:11-15) will occur at the end of His Millennial Reign on earth and before the end/change of this earth and the creation of the New Earth, New Heaven, and New Jerusalem.  In other words, just before Jesus Christ leads all believer into Eternity to be with Him forever.

So, is the "near death experience" real to the person who has this experience?  I am sure it seems to be very real.  However, if this person will really study what Scripture teaches -- he/she will find that it has only been that, an experience, a sort of dream -- and  that he/she did not really enter or see inside heaven.

My Friends, this is not just Bill Gray's view -- this is the Biblical view.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:


The Non-believers' Judgment (Great White Throne Judgment - Rev 20:11-15) will occur at the end of His Millennial Reign on earth and before the end/change of this earth and the creation of the New Earth, New Heaven, and New Jerusalem.  In other words, just before Jesus Christ leads all believer into Eternity to be with Him forever.

So, is the "near death experience" real to the person who has this experience?  I am sure it seems to be very real.  However, if this person will really study what Scripture teaches -- he/she will find that it has only been that, an experience, a sort of dream -- and  that he/she did not really enter or see inside heaven.

My Friends, this is not just Bill Gray's view -- this is the Biblical view.

Bill

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Billie, your view is wrong, so it can't be the Bible's view. NDE is just what it's

says, near death, and God only knows when they will occur.

When Jesus flat lines someone, he holds their life in his hands until he

is finished telling them what he wants in the way of a message and/or

an action he request from the person.

God doesn't read the Bible to find out what to do next. Thats your next

step .

Your trouble is, you have never investigated an NDE to the point you

understand what happened. Your God is King James and he doesn't

know anything about NDE's so why should you?

 

you say;

The Non-believers' Judgment (Great White Throne Judgment - Rev 20:11-15) will occur at the end of His Millennial Reign on earth and before the end/change of this earth and the creation of the New Earth, New Heaven, and New Jerusalem.  In other words, just before Jesus Christ leads all believer into Eternity to be with Him forever.
So, is the "near death experience" real to the person who has this experience?  I am sure it seems to be very real.  However, if this person will really study what Scripture teaches -- he/she will find that it has only been that, an experience, a sort of dream -- and  that he/she did not really enter or see inside heaven.

----------------

This makes no sense, you're trying to connect something thats not there.

Your attempt to restrict commuincation from God to his people because

of your ignorence isn't going to happen.

God works with people every minute of everyday in every place on earth.

 

We know NDE's do exist because of the physical evidence the documentation

brings with it. God didn't come from the Bible, the Bible came from God.

There are times to forget the Bible when it has nothing to do with certain

events.  Good golly Mz molly,  beam me up.

 

.

 

 

quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
We know NDE's do exist because of the physical evidence the documentation brings with it.  God didn't come from the Bible, the Bible came from God.  There are times to forget the Bible when it has nothing to do with certain events.  Good golly Mz molly,  beam me up.

Hi Vic,

 

I am sure that you can find proof that Puff the Magic Dragon also exists.  But, not in the Bible. 

 

You say that, ". . . the Bible came from God."   That is so true -- and THAT is why we know it is the inspired, inerrant, literal Written Word of God.  And THAT is why we must view that Bible as our sole source of final authority and knowledge.  

 

All things come, and came, from God.  "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."  All things created include the sciences, all the laws governing those sciences, and all knowledge.  Scientific discoveries are merely man finally reaching a pinnacle -- where the Word of God already sits.

 

So, no, Vic, we will not find NDEs in the Bible -- for they are not Biblical.  Not even if our non-believing Friends tell you they are real.

 

Oh, by the way -- if you are a believer -- you WILL be beamed up.  We call it the Rapture!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

quote:   Originally Posted by semiannualchick:

Bill, even though you try to be a smooth talker & use Biblical terminology, doesn't mean you aren't one of those wolves in sheep’s clothing & blind leaders of the blind.


Hi Chick,

 

That is so true!!  And, this is why the apostle Paul admonishes everyone to test the words of those sharing the Gospel against what is written in God's Word -- to make sure their teaching is Biblical.  We find this in Acts 17:11 -- and, I strongly encourage everyone to test what I write against Scripture. 

 

When, not if, but when -- you find me wrongly interpreting Scripture at any time -- please bring it to my attention.  That way, we can all learn through discussing Scripture.  And, that way, we all get the full Word of God as it is intended.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Well Bill the facts are that there are documented cases annually where people are resuscitated after they have met the definition of physical death.  There have been cases this year and the difference in most is the time the person had been without breathing or signs of life.  As for these people who have not yet died but, as they say, came back and have a story to tell or an experience to relate who are we to tell them what they saw and experienced was not real?  Frankly we just don't know for it didn't happen to us. 

 

As for the statement that it is not in the Bible being proof that NDE does not have any validity that also is not a rational statement for you, yourself, know that the Bible is silent on many things and issues in life.  Just because you do not find it printed in the Scriptures does not make it potentially a viable event or happening.

 

As for your statement about there not being any NDE event recorded in Scripture, while I know how you will spin it, How to you reconcile your statement with John 11:38-43 and John 12:9&10.  Yes this is a Miracle of Jesus but by definition Lazarus was dead and then he was raised.  The dead returned to life.  Although in Lazarus's situation it was a miracle of our Lord there are still those today that have been declared and perceived as dead and yet have returned to life so many would say that Lazarus was a recorded NDE in the Bible we just don't have the experiences that Lazarus related after he was returned to the physical body.

 

Hi GB,

You tell me, "Well, Bill, the facts are that there are documented cases annually where people are resuscitated after they have met the definition of physical death.  There have been cases this year and the difference in most is the time the person had been without breathing or signs of life."   

Yes, there have been cases where the medical doctors declared a person dead -- and later the person appeared to have been brought back from the dead.  All this tells me is that the medical doctors were wrong.  Given a choice of believing medical doctors or believing God; I will choose to believe God and His Written Word.

But, GB, are you telling us that you do not believe what the Bible teaches?  If you will look more closely at my first post, you will find Scripture passages which tell us that a person cannot die -- and then come back.

Then, you write, "As for these people who have not yet died but, as they say, came back and have a story to tell or an experience to relate -- who are we to tell them what they saw and experienced was not real?  Frankly we just don't know for it didn't happen to us."

True, we see folks eager to hear and believe the people who have "seen heaven" and returned to tell us about it.  That is very similar to folks who visit seers and fortune tellers in an attempt to know the future.  If God wants us to know the future; He will disclose it to  us.  Well, actually, He has already.  It is in the Bible.  And, as far as us knowing what heaven will be like -- that, too, is in the Bible.  At least, as much as God wants us to know at this time.   

God does not tell us all details about the trip -- only what we need for tomorrow.  The same is true about heaven.  What God feels we need to know about heaven is in the Bible.  So, why should we look to psychics, seers, or NDEs to tell us about the future and about heaven?  God has already told us all we need to know.   

You tell me, "As for the statement that, not in the Bible being proof that NDE does not have any validity -- that also is not a rational statement for you.  (You) know that the Bible is silent on many things and issues in life.  Just because you do not find it printed in the Scriptures does not make it potentially (not) a viable event or happening."

Yet, the Bible is NOT silent on this issue.  Take a look at Hebrews 9:27.

Then, you tell me, "As for your statement about there not being any NDE event recorded in Scripture, while I know how you will spin it -- How to you reconcile your statement with John 11:38-43 and John 12:9&10.  Yes this is a Miracle of Jesus but by definition Lazarus was dead and then he was raised.  The dead returned to life.

Although in Lazarus' situation it was a miracle of our Lord, there are still those today that have been declared and perceived as dead and yet have returned to life.  So many would say that Lazarus was a recorded NDE in the Bible we just don't have the experiences that Lazarus related after he was returned to the physical body."

First, Lazarus was NOT a recorded NDE.  Lazarus was dead for four days.   Jesus Christ raised Lazarus from the dead -- not a NDE.

Yes, in the days of Jesus earthly ministry, there were incidents where people were raised from the dead -- by Jesus Christ, or by the power of Jesus Christ.  Lazarus, as you mentioned is a prime example of Jesus raising the dead.  However, as I said -- there are NO cases of Near Death Experiences, where folks who were near-dead and then rose again.

How do we account for the folks raised from the dead during Jesus' ministry -- and not now?  The same way we can say that there are no prophets today.   In the Old Testament, God used prophets to declare His messages to the people.  Now, with all people having access to His Written Word, the Bible -- there is no need for prophets.  We basically get it straight from God, i.e, His Bible.

By the same token, in the days of Jesus' ministry and shortly thereafter, we see many miracles such as raising the dead, healing the blind, healing the lepers, etc.  These were meant to show testimony of Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah.

As we are told in John 20:30-31, "Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name."

1 John 5:13, "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life."

B. B. Warfield, in Counterfeit Miracles, Banner of Truth Trust, 1918, reprinted 1976, pp. 27,28 -- wrote:


Had any miracles perchance occurred beyond the Apostolic age they would be without significance; mere occurrences with no universal meaning.  What is important is that the Holy Scriptures teach clearly that the complete revelation of God is given in Christ, and that the Holy Spirit who is poured out on the people of God has come solely in order to glorify Christ and to take the things of Christ.

Because Christ is all in all, and all revelation and redemption alike are summed up in him, it would be inconceivable that either revelation or accompanying signs should continue after the completion of that great revelation with its accrediting works.


From the GodQuestions.Org web site: 

http://www.gotquestions.org/miracles-Bible.html

Question: "Does God still perform miracles?"


Answer:  The purpose of miracles was to authenticate the performer of the miracles.  Acts 2:22 declares, “Men of Israel, listen to  this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.”   The same is said of the apostles, “The things that mark an apostle -- signs, wonders and miracles --  were done among you with great perseverance” (2 Corinthians 12:12).

Speaking of the Gospel, Hebrews 2:4 proclaims, “God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to His will.”   We now have the truth of Jesus recorded in Scripture.   We now have the writings of the apostles recorded in Scripture.


Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in Scripture, are the cornerstone and foundation of our faith (Ephesians 2:20).  In this sense, miracles are no longer necessary, as the message of Jesus and His apostles has already been attested to and accurately recorded in the Scriptures.  Yes, God still performs miracles.  At the same time, we should not necessarily expect miracles to occur today just as they did in Bible times.

 

So, GB, if you and Vic insist upon believing in "near death experiences" -- not a problem.  What is believed about such things does not affect a person's salvation.  However, no one can ever claim this to be Biblical; for it is not -- at all.  The Bible clearly teaches against this kind of "future seeing."

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Chick,

I strongly encourage everyone to test what I write against Scripture. 

 

When, not if, but when -- you find me wrongly interpreting Scripture at any time -- please bring it to my attention.  

Bill

*******************************

Many on this forum have done just that, several times, but you refuse to answer.

Originally Posted by gbrk:

Well Bill the facts are that there are documented cases annually where people are resuscitated after they have met the definition of physical death.

 

 

---------

 

No there has NOT.

No one has EVER, EVER come back from "death" as the medical establishment defines it - meaning lack of brain function.

A stoppage of the heart (how stupid people define "death") allows for conditions that are perfect for "NDE" such as lack of oxygen to the brain.

What you all fail to consider is that perhaps religion was born out of a few people who thought they glimpsed the afterlife during an ancient NDE.  The brain is a marvelous organ but its just that: an organ.  When it shuts down, there is no more left in it than what is left in a kidney when it shuts down. 

 

Grow up.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi GB,
So, GB, if you and Vic insist upon believing in "near death experiences" -- not a problem.  What is believed about such things does not affect a person's salvation.  However, no one can ever claim this to be Biblical; for it is not -- at all.  The Bible clearly teaches against this kind of "future seeing."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

So, Billie-jo, I'm not sure gbrk totally brought into it, but he is open to the

power of God and that God is working everyday to convince everyone

that will listen to the fact that "I do exist." You limit God to the Bible.

Big mistake, half the time you don't know what your talking about with

your misconception of Bible interpretations.

 

Why do you believe everything God does, he needs run it by you first?

God does work outside the Bible. Could it be possible that NDE's might not

be dead, but appear to be to a medical doctor by design from Jesus to

illustrate his power over death and a very visual account of that power.

 

A vision greatly needed for our senses to ascertain humanly because we

fail to believe the power of God.

 

.

 

I don't know why they keep "pushing" these nde. Dead is dead and you don't come back. Talk to a doctor and ask them what it's possible to experience when your brain is deprived of oxygen. Ask people who have had high fevers to tell you some of the things they "saw", such as their toes talking to them. Sometimes I dream about my mother. She is as real and alive in those dreams as she ever was. I see her, I hear her, and I get to talk to her. Am I going somewhere mystical where my mother lives now? No, I'm visiting her in my mind. I have dreamed about my dad but not as much. It isn't that I love him any less, I think it's because I lost him so early in my life and he and I didn't have a chance to form that special "bond" like my mom and I did.

 

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I don't know why they keep "pushing" these nde. Dead is dead and you don't come back. Talk to a doctor and ask them what it's possible to experience when your brain is deprived of oxygen. Ask people who have had high fevers to tell you some of the things they "saw", such as their toes talking to them. Sometimes I dream about my mother. She is as real and alive in those dreams as she ever was. I see her, I hear her, and I get to talk to her. Am I going somewhere mystical where my mother lives now? No, I'm visiting her in my mind. I have dreamed about my dad but not as much. It isn't that I love him any less, I think it's because I lost him so early in my life and he and I didn't have a chance to form that special "bond" like my mom and I did.

 

I like your story Best, very interesting, never had my toes talking to me,

and I dream sometimes. Once my butt was barking at me, but thats

another story.

.

 

I'm surprised. As much grass as you cut you should have all sorts of interesting stories. A man was telling about his wife having the flu and how sick she was. She was in a recliner in the room with him and he said she was awake. She was looking at her feet and talking and laughing. He ask her if she was talking to him and she said no, she was talking to her toes.  Her fever had gone so high she was hallucinating. He took her to the ER so they could get her fever down. He said she remembers to this day her toes talking to her and how "real" it was. She knows of course it was just a hallucination but it doesn't change the fact she saw what she saw.

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