Hi to my Forum Friends,
Buried way down in the bowels of a long running discussion begun by Chick, titled "Dumb Stuff In The Bible?" is a comment by my atheist Friend, Jennifer.
Jennifer tells us, "First of all I never got an answer to any of my questions. If I did, I missed them. One I ask was about circumcision, . . ."
My Friend, I never saw your question about circumcision. However, I will address that issue. In the Old Testament God gave Laws to the Israelites which could apply to both their practical life and to the spiritual life. The dietary laws encompassed both. And, the law regarding circumcision was another. The law of circumcision given to Israelites in the Old Testament was a matter of health, i.e., good hygiene. It was also a spiritually symbolic cutting off of the flesh -- in obedience to God, i.e., to follow God and not the flesh.
In the New Testament, when Jesus Christ brought mankind into the dispensation of Grace -- circumcision became a matter of the heart and not of the flesh. In Romans 2:28-29 and Romans 3:1-4, the apostle Paul explains that circumcision for the Christian believer is one of the heart, not the flesh:
Romans 2:28-29, "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter (of the Law); and his praise is not from men, but from God."
Then, Jennifer asks, ". . .the other was why the bible stories are "cleaned up" when read to children."
Regardless of what one is teaching -- the subject and the words have to be appropriate to the age and maturity of those listening. If you were describing the murders committed by the Manson Family to six year old children -- would you include all the gory details? Or would you merely explain that these people did things which were very bad, harming others, and for that they are being punished?
The same applies to explaining the Bible to young children; we adapt the stories (without lying or making the stories false) to the minds of the young children. Would you not do the same?
Jennifer raises a good question when she asks, "I ask, too, why the bible was written in languages that people couldn't understand -- because according to that bible a god made the different languages. Didn't he want ALL his followers to understand what he meant?"
Yes, Jennifer, God speaks all languages fluently -- and understands us, regardless of what language we speak. But, I believe the core of your question is really, "Why did God create so many languages? Didn't He want His people to be able to communicate among themselves?"
And, the answer is: No. He did not want all the people able to be able to communicate.
Why? Well, He had given them a common language. And, He had given them a command: Genesis 1:27-28, "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, 'Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.' "
Yet, the people all gathered together in the land of Shinar (Genesis 11:1-2). And, under the leadership of Nimrod, they decided, "Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven" (Genesis 11:4).
So, when God gave all the people a common language and a command to "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth" -- they instead decided to gather in one place and build a tower into heaven.
Compare this to the fall of Lucifer/Satan in Isaiah 14:
Isaiah 14:12-14 (kjv), "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."
How did God remedy this erroneous thinking of the people? He multiplied their languages causing people to gather in groups which spoke the same language. Having spent 24 years in Filipino Bible studies, I can relate to that. Yet, when I am in a group and, before or after the Bible study, some begin to speak their native language, it does not really bother me -- for, if the conversation was something which should involve me -- they will speak English. When that happens, I just go get another serving of the delicious Filipino food and smile.
But, back to God's solution: Eventually, those who spoke the same language drifted away from those they could not understand -- and, over time, fulfilled God's command to "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth."
So, Jennifer, returning to your question: Why couldn't God have given us a Bible written in a single language that all could understand? Possibly for the same reason He uses we weak, frail, sinful Christians to spread His Gospel of Salvation and Eternal Life around the world. He wants us to be involved.
I can relate to this also. I have been in churches where I was actively involved in the services, in leading Sunday Schools, and in leading Bible studies. And, I have been in churches where I am not allowed to do any of this.
In the first churches, I grew spiritually. In the latter churches, I became stagnant. Our spiritual lives, like our muscles, tend to deteriorate if we do not use them. I believe this is called atrophy. People can atrophy spiritually if not allowed to use their spiritual gifts. Therefore, if I am in a place, or church, where I feel that I am beginning to deteriorate spiritually -- I will find a place where I can grow and use the gifts given to me by God.
My personal belief is that God wants two things of me: (1) To daily grow spiritually myself, and (2) To daily help another, or others, grow spiritually. If I am not doing both -- my spiritual muscles, i.e., my spiritual gifts -- will atrophy and deteriorate.
In the same way, God uses all Christian believers as His "feet on the street" so that we all will grow spiritually, daily, through our witnessing to others.
And, that, Jennifer, is one reason why God gave us the Bible in many languages and in many translations -- so that we would get off the couch, not become "couch potato Christians" -- and go to the streets, byways, and Religion Forums to share His Written Word, the Bible -- and to share His Gospel of Salvation with others.
Finally, Jennifer, you declare, "This thread ("Dumb Stuff In The Bible?") only touched the surface of the ridiculous things in the bible. Some things are just observations and not questions requiring answers because there really are no answers."
Here, Jennifer, I will have to agree with you -- to a degree. Before I was a Christian believer, I, too, thought the Bible to be confusing and in some places, even "dumb" as Chick has suggested in her discussion.
However, when I placed myself under the spiritual tutelage of a Godly pastor, Pastor Sam Lacanienta, and spent time hearing his Sunday sermons and studying with him and the church fellowship in Bible studies and Sunday School classes -- the scales of darkness began to fall from my eyes. The spiritual Light began to shine through -- and I began to grow spiritually, I began to become more mature and more literate in my understanding of the Bible. Within six months, I became a born again Christian believer. And, over the past 24 years, I have worked to grow spiritually, to grow more mature and knowledgeable in my understanding of God's Word, the Bible.
No, in becoming a Christian believer in six months, I did not become a Bible scholar overnight. No, I am not a Bible scholar today. But, every day, as I dialogue with folks on the Religion Forum and in my Friends Ministry e-mails -- I learn and become more knowledgeable of God's Word. So, you see, you help me to grow spiritually -- and, I pray that I help others who are reading the Religion Forum and who are reading my Friends Ministry eNewsletters to grow spiritually.
Jennifer, there is nothing that would thrill me more than to see you become a Christian believer. It would make me so happy to, one day, meet you, Chick, Crusty, Deep, and all of our other non-believing Forum Friends in heaven. I can just imagine the joy I would feel to know that I am sharing my Jesus Christ with all of you.
Any time you would like to discuss the details of making this happen -- I will very happy to dialogue with you -- on the open Religion Forum, in Forum Private Messages, or in e-mails. Even on the telephone.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill