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Hi to all my Forum Friends,

In the discussion begun by VP titled "Question For Bill" Max tells us, "I think some churches put more effort into activities than teaching the Bible. I mean having events just so they can count the numbers. But instilling the Word is secondary."

Max, there are many churches (pastors) who will purposely avoid any words or teachings which will make people sitting in the congregation, or watching on television, feel uncomfortable. Several years ago, I found a ministry which was new to me, a church in the Mid West, and I could not find their Statement of Beliefs on their web site.

I sent them an e-mail asking why they do not post this very important information on their site. For me personally, the very first thing I look for when I visit a ministry web site for the first time -- is their Statement of Beliefs. This will tell me if, and how, I should continue reading the rest of their web site.

This church responded, telling me, "We do not post our Statement of Beliefs because we do not want to offend anyone." Whoa! A church which will not tell people the Biblical principles and doctrines they teach -- for fear of offending people? Frankly, I was very offended. And, I feel comfortable saying that God was also offended.

Why do "Feel Good" churches not want to offend anyone? Because that is how they grow to having overflowing crowds each week. Many people, realizing they need to, at least on the surface, pay tribute to God -- but, not wanting to give up many of their wordily pleasures and pursuits -- will seek out the "Feel Good" churches.

This way, they can feel that they have met their obligation to God by going to church for at least an hour each Sunday -- and they still have lots of time to pursue their worldly ambitions. This is sort of a "one shoe fits all" kind of church which they seek. And, because there are many pastors and churches who will accommodate them -- we have "Feel Good" megachurches.

Max, looking again at what you wrote, "I think some churches put more effort into activities than teaching the Bible. I mean having events just so they can count the numbers. But instilling the Word is secondary."

While the churches you describe are not necessarily "Feel Good" churches, they do waste a lot of time "spinning their wheels." Some years ago, I was in a church, a very solid Baptist church, and was one of the Sunday School leaders. One week, Sunday School was canceled so that church members could discuss plans for their Summer Camp. The next week, it was canceled for some other meeting. And, this I am not making up, nor am I kidding -- six months later I went to our pastor and told him, "Do you realize that we have not had Sunday School for six months?"

He was shocked, but, knew this was true, He and our church had gotten so involved in planning activities -- we seem to have forgotten that our main purpose in church is to worship God, fellowship with Christian brothers and sisters, AND teach the Word of God in Sunday School and Bible study. Somehow, we had let that last one slip through the cracks.

While I enjoy the sermon, the worship, and the fellowship -- to me, the most important function of any church is Bible Studies and Sunday Schools -- teaching God's Word through interaction and discussions. Our pastor and our members did not do this activity planning and other meetings to grow the church numerically; but, we failed to realize that this was hindering the church spiritually.

Max, there are many ways that Satan can interfere with the maturing of God's people. One which we have highlighted in this discussion is the "Feel Good" churches; who, God forbid, do not want to make anyone uncomfortable by fully teaching God's Word.

Another is the churches which focus on a "Social Theology" -- spending 98% of their time doing good deeds and maybe 2% of their time teaching God's Word and helping believers to grow and mature in knowledge of God's Word.

And, a third, such as the solid Baptist church I mentioned -- who, though doing all things right -- still allowed ourselves to be side-tracked by outside activities.

Even well intentioned churches, pastors, elders, and other solid Christian believers can sometimes fall into the trap of what is often called Satan's BUSY Plan. What is this? Well, read this web site story and see if you, or your church, have fallen into this seductive plan: Satan's BUSY Plan: http://www.moytura.com/reflections/busy.htm

Another major failure of most all megachurches is the fact that they do not have Sunday School classes -- and, many do not have Bible Studies. Folks have told me, "Bill, they are too big to be able to do these things." Well, if any church is "too big" to give God's people more than a weekly one hour "quick fix" sermon on God's Word -- then, someone needs to do some rethinking.

If the church is "too big" to do what is needed for God's people -- then, split it into smaller churches which can fill these needs. But, that will never happen. Do you know why? Because small churches cannot fund the pastors to be on national television -- or to preach the Gospel at major venues such as ball parks and large auditoriums. In other words, many pastors need a large megachurch to make it possible to fulfill "his or her" agenda of being in the national spotlight.

Several years ago, a Friend mentioned that a popular television pastor from Texas was going to be in town for an event. I went online to get more information -- and I found that tickets were being sold by major ticket web sites -- for $140. I contacted the ministry and asked why they are selling ticket for $140 -- to hear the Gospel. They quickly told me that they do not charge $140, they only charge $10. Well, my goodness -- they only charge folks $10 to hear the Gospel which God freely gave to them.

When I asked about the $140 tickets being sold on the popular ticket web site; I was told, "We cannot control what ticket sellers do."

Yes, you can! Since the ministry is selling blocks of tickets to these web sites and ticket outlets -- they can control the prices. If a ticket outlet is determined to scalp sincere believers who only want to hear the Gospel -- by taking a $10 ticket and selling it for $140 -- that ministry can refuse to sell blocks of tickets to that organization. But, if they do that -- how will they fill the stadium?

And, my final question to this ministry was, "Who set the price of your tickets at $10 -- you or God?" Jesus freely went to the cross and shed His blood, we read in the Gospel, to offer the "free gift" of salvation to all people -- and this ministry has put a $10 fee on that precious blood. And, they allow others to jack up the price of that precious blood to $140. What Would Jesus Say about this?

Max, what America and the world needs is a Christian church modeled after the one begun on the Day of Pentecost -- a church such as we find in Act 2:42, 46, "They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' (pastors and elders) teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. . . Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart."

In this church they were meeting in the temple, i.e., church, and in homes -- for what? To be taught God's Word, to fellowship with fellow believers to strengthen one another, and to have food fellowship and prayer as the body of Christ.

And, we find, in Acts 2:47, that God blessed their activities and He grew the church, the body of believers -- daily.

Acts 2:47, "Praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved."

This, my Friends, is the kind of church so badly needed today -- no name, no denomination, no strange theologies -- just the body of Christian believers worshiping God, in Christian fellowship, and teaching one another through the study and application of what is truly taught in His Word, the Bible. I can assure you -- this was NOT a "Feel Good" church which only wanted to make folks feel comfortable.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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If asked about the battle of Jericho, I guess most would have an idea of the event.But if asked about the next battle how many would even have a clue? In a 'feel good' place the story of the defeat at Ai would never be mentioned.
When asked why the children of Israel were defeated they would not have a clue.
How many of you reading this do?
In order to understand the New Testament one must study the old.
That is not taught in these 'feel good' places all the pain and suffering that took place in order for us to have a Savior must be presented in order to understand just what a blessing we have in Jesus.
Sorry, didn't mean to repost your post with my joke Bill
ok thats fixed, Catholic joke, and yes I was raised Catholic but I do not accept their ways any longer.
Joke: A group of Catholic parishners were wondering why the collection plate money was being spent on other things besides the actual church. So the following Sunday the priest took the full collection plate and raised it ovr his head and said for all to hear-" I will show you all what I have discovered" he then threw the money up in the air and said "Whatever God wants, God keeps. The rest is up to me!" (of course all the money hit the floor)
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
If asked about the battle of Jericho, I guess most would have an idea of the event.But if asked about the next battle how many would even have a clue? In a 'feel good' place the story of the defeat at Ai would never be mentioned.
When asked why the children of Israel were defeated they would not have a clue.
How many of you reading this do?
In order to understand the New Testament one must study the old.
That is not taught in these 'feel good' places all the pain and suffering that took place in order for us to have a Savior must be presented in order to understand just what a blessing we have in Jesus.

Hi Max,

That is true. And, that is why I like a church which teaches through the Bible without skipping any verse or passage. There are many good churches which do this.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
That is not taught in these 'feel good' places all the pain and suffering that took place in order for us to have a Savior must be presented in order to understand just what a blessing we have in Jesus.


I agree, themax.
We have to focus on the incredible suffering of Jesus. All the time, in order to realize the incredible Sacrifice.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
And, that is why I like a church which teaches through the Bible without skipping any verse or passage. There are many good churches which do this.


Malachi 2: Sayeth the Lord "1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. 2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. 3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it."


theres nothin like a good god-commanded bowel movement and not-so-holy-cleansing to make ya feel good, lemmie here ya say amen?
Hi VP,

Max wrote, "In order to understand the New Testament one must study the Old (Testament). That is not taught in these 'feel good' places -- all the pain and suffering that took place in order for us to have a Savior must be presented in order to understand just what a blessing we have in Jesus."

And, you replied, "I agree, Max. We have to focus on the incredible suffering of Jesus. All the time, in order to realize the incredible Sacrifice."

VP and Max, yes, I agree with you that people need to truly understand His anguish in the Garden of Gethsemane; the humiliation the Romans heaped upon Him as they beat, mocked, and spit upon Him; the pain of carrying an 80 pound wooden beam upon his torn and beaten shoulders up that long, hot, dusty Via Dolorosa (Way of Grief, Way of Suffering) toward the rocky hill called Golgotha where they drove long metal spikes into his wrist and feet. And, often, people tend to romanticize or spiritualize His hanging upon that cross -- instead of meditating upon the extreme disfiguration and pain He suffered to pay our sin debt to God -- in full.

Yes, people need to truly understand what He did for us. But, we must now look to what He is doing for us today. He died on that cross to offer His "free gift" of salvation to all the people of the world -- to all who will, by grace, through faith in Him, believe and receive this wonderful "free gift" (Ephesians 2:8-9). Through His blood, He "paid in full" the sin debt for all who will believe. When He declared, "It is finished!" (John 19:30) -- He meant that His full work of redemption was finished. All we have to do is, by grace, through faith, believe and receive this gift, this finished redemption.

Then, He rose from the grave, resurrected, to assure that every person in God's creation will also be resurrected. He resurrected into His immortal body -- and because of this, we, too, will be resurrected into our immortal bodies. Those who are His followers, into their immortal bodies for eternal fellowship with God. For those who choose not to follow Him, into their immortal bodies for eternal suffering in the presence of Satan.

And, then, He ascended into heaven (Act 1:9-11), where He sits at the right hand of God (Acts 2:33) -- interceding (Romans 8:34) continually for all Christian believers.

So, while we must never spiritualize or minimize the great suffering He experienced for us -- we must now focus on what He is doing today to assure eternal life with God for all believers. We honor His finished work on the cross by following the Great Commandment He left for all Christian believers: Go, Make disciples, Baptize them, Teach them (Matthew 28:19-20) and "Be My witnesses in all the world" (Acts 1:8, Mark 16:15). Doing these things, we glorify Him, we honor Him, we worship Him -- and, we obey Him.

This is how we honor His sacrifice, not by keeping Him hanging on the cross, not by sacrificing Him over and over again, every week. He was sacrificed "once for all" (Romans 6:10, Hebrews 7:27, Hebrews 9:12, Hebrews 10:10, 1 Peter 3:18 ) and now has glorified Himself and God the Father. Let's look to our Glorified Lord, our Savior, our one and only Mediator -- and do all we can to bring more people into a saving, eternal relationship with Him. Our task is to work toward filling heaven to overflowing with saved, forgiven sinners -- the real saints.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
That is true. And, that is why I like a church which teaches through the Bible without skipping any verse or passage. There are many good churches which do this.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


This is the way we have our Bible study. We start in Genesis and go all the way through the Bible.
We do this on a quarter time frame. The non-adult classes stay a quarter behind the adult class. The teachers are rotated every quarter making for a wonderful way to study the Bible for everyone.
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
And, that is why I like a church which teaches through the Bible without skipping any verse or passage. There are many good churches which do this.

Malachi 2: Sayeth the Lord "1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. 2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. 3 Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it."

Theres (sic) nothin (sic) like a good God-commanded bowel movement and not-so-holy-cleansing to make ya (sic) feel good, lemmie (sic) here ya (sic) say amen?

Hi Uno,

It seems you have no respect for God's Written Word, the Bible -- and very little indepth knowledge of it. You have cherry picked one passage from Scripture because it had what you consider to be juicy and damaging words to allow you to rage against God. But, you obviously have no real knowledge of what is being taught.

In this Scripture passage, God was chastising the people of Israel and particularly the priests who had written their own laws instead of following the laws given to Moses by God. We have a similar situation today with the men who write their own laws in the Vatican instead of following the teachings of God's Written Word, the Bible.

Here are two good comments on this particular Scripture passage -- one from a pastor who has been teaching through the Bible for over fifty years -- and the other from a very knowledgeable pastor who is Director of Calvary Chapel Bible College in Germany.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel in his commentary on Malachi 2:
http://www.blueletterbible.org...c=Malachi&ar=Mal_2_2

Now, in order to get a real background to Malachi, you need to read again the books of Ezra and Nehemiah, because Malachi was prophesying during the time of Ezra and Nehemiah. This was the time when the children of Israel had returned from their Babylonian captivity and were starting to rebuild the nation. We remember how they read to the people the law of the Lord, and how that the people had begun to put away their wives and began to marry the wives from the cities of Ashdod and Ammon and the Moabites. Malachi will come down on this pretty soon, but you get a historic background to Malachi in Nehemiah and Ezra, which you should reread just to put the whole prophecy in perspective.

Pastor David Guzik, Director of Calvary Chapel Bible College, Germany, writes in his commentary on Malachi :
http://www.blueletterbible.org...c=Malachi&ar=Mal_2_2

c. Spread refuse on your faces: Sacrificed animals still had excrement in their systems, and God said this should be burned outside the sanctuary (Exodus 29:14). Here, God says He will “rub their noses in it,” so that they will have to be taken outside the sanctuary.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Uno, we welcome you to the Religion Forum. And, your being a person who disrespects of the Bible will offer many good opportunities for us to jointly share the Word of God through our dialogues. Like our atheist Friend, Deep, you, too, may become a very good Gospel Sharing Partner. Welcome!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
, I agree with you that people need to truly understand His anguish in the Garden of Gethsemane; the humiliation the Romans heaped upon Him as they beat, mocked, and spit upon Him; the pain of carrying an 80 pound wooden beam upon his torn and beaten shoulders up that long, hot, dusty Via Dolorosa (Way of Grief, Way of Suffering) toward the rocky hill called Golgotha where they drove long metal spikes into his wrist and feet



yeah but he did so knowing full well that he'd inherit the control of an entire universe from his daddy for eternity. dude this is not a big sacrifice. id wager most men would jump at the opportunity..... well, i would anways. think of the chicks!

you want "real" sacrifice? here is someone that actually for-real died for all of us: http://www.purpleheartaustin.org/allday.htm
Last edited by Unobtanium
quote:
Originally posted by themax:
quote:
That is true. And, that is why I like a church which teaches through the Bible without skipping any verse or passage. There are many good churches which do this.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

This is the way we have our Bible study. We start in Genesis and go all the way through the Bible.

We do this on a quarter time frame. The non-adult classes stay a quarter behind the adult class. The teachers are rotated every quarter making for a wonderful way to study the Bible for everyone.

Hi Max,

It sounds like you have a very good church fellowship. Rotating study leaders, in Sunday School and in Bible studies is a good idea, for it brings in fresh ideas and fresh perspectives on the Scripture lessons.

In our church we rotate more frequently, i.e, on a weekly basis, which I like. But, in my previous church which was a church plant; after a year of them postponing having Sunday School classes, I went to the pastor and told him, "Next week we will start Sunday School classes and I will lead them." Personally, I was hoping to have others volunteer to swap off leading, but, no one did.

No matter how well one knows the Bible; having the same leader every week can be tiring -- on the leader and on those in the class. I like rotating lesson leaders.

Max, congratulations on being in an active Christian fellowship.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
It seems you have no respect for God's Written Word, the Bible



that would be an understatement sir!. what kind of monster could possibly support an even bigger monster that would command a man to murder his own daughter??? for you to support this makes you a part of this evil regime. when you wonder if the guards at the nazi concentration camps knew if they were doing horrible wrongs, just consider looking in the mirror at one who follows the same kind of monster.

"At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, "If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

"So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. "My daughter!" he cried out. "My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back." And she said, "Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin." "You may go," Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah's daughter." (Judges 11:29-40)
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
I agree with you that people need to truly understand His anguish in the Garden of Gethsemane; the humiliation the Romans heaped upon Him as they beat, mocked, and spit upon Him; the pain of carrying an 80 pound wooden beam upon his torn and beaten shoulders up that long, hot, dusty Via Dolorosa (Way of Grief, Way of Suffering) toward the rocky hill called Golgotha where they drove long metal spikes into his wrist and feet

yeah but he did so knowing full well that he'd inherit the control of an entire universe from his daddy for eternity. dude this is not a big sacrifice. id wager most men would jump at the opportunity..... well, i would anways (sic).

Hi Uno,

Your raving against the Word of God remind me of six year old who wants to stand and brag about his knowledge of jet aircraft -- when he has not yet learned to build a balsam wood model.

Go study the Bible a while and then come back. Maybe then you can speak more intelligently about what is written there.

And, by the way, the man you give us in your link, while he honorably served our country, both in WW2 and in subsequent years -- DID NOT die for us. He served us; but, from your article he died in 2008 -- most likely of old age. Sorry, my Friend, but no cigar!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
It seems you have no respect for God's Written Word, the Bible

that would be an understatement sir!. what kind of monster could possibly support an even bigger monster that would command a man to murder his own daughter??? (Judges 11:29-40)

AS I SAID, GO STUDY THE BIBLE FOR A WHILE SO THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO "CHERRY PICK" - THEN, WE CAN TALK!

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quote:
This is how we honor His sacrifice, not by keeping Him hanging on the cross, not by sacrificing Him over and over again, every week.


Yet another slam against Catholicism...and the crucifix.
Bill, how can you be so sure?
The crucifix is a constant reminder of His pain and sacrifice.
Who told you that our focus should not be on His suffering ?
And where is He sacrified over and over?
quote:
AS I SAID, GO STUDY THE BIBLE FOR A WHILE SO THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO "CHERRY PICK" - THEN, WE CAN TALK!


cherry pick? CHERRY PICK? these ugly, nasty cherries (more aptly called dingleberries) are hanging all over your precious book nimrod! when your preacher preaches to the congregation, does he ever bring up thise vile disgusting passages uttered directly by your lord god? you are the one who said you wanted church who taught "all the bible" so do you or do you not?'

sayeth the lord thine God of the universe: "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. -- Exodus 21:7-11
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
AS I SAID, GO STUDY THE BIBLE FOR A WHILE SO THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO "CHERRY PICK" - THEN, WE CAN TALK!


cherry pick? CHERRY PICK? these ugly, nasty cherries (more aptly called dingleberries) are hanging all over your precious book nimrod! when your preacher preaches to the congregation, does he ever bring up thise vile disgusting passages uttered directly by your lord god? you are the one who said you wanted church who taught "all the bible" so do you or do you not?'

sayeth the lord thine God of the universe: "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. -- Exodus 21:7-11


Uranium head

I’ll bet you would have been a poplar attraction back during the Exodus.

‘Stoned’ shall we say.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
It seems you have no respect for God's Written Word, the Bible

that would be an understatement sir!. what kind of monster could possibly support an even bigger monster that would command a man to murder his own daughter??? (Judges 11:29-40)

AS I SAID, GO STUDY THE BIBLE FOR A WHILE SO THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO "CHERRY PICK" - THEN, WE CAN TALK!


Bill,

You can't in any way know Catholicism the way Catholics have known
it since 33AD.

All you have is your Bible and that's not enough for the last 2000 year's.
You don't need to stray outside the Bible because that's all you've say
you know.


uNObrain,

What concern is all this to you?
Hi Kraven,

You tell me, "Bill, You can't in any way know Catholicism the way Catholics have known it since 33 AD."

Roman Catholicism began in the early 300 AD period with Constantine. So, what is it that Roman Catholics have known since 33 AD?

Next, you tell me, "All you have is your Bible and that's not enough for the last 2000 year's. You don't need to stray outside the Bible because that's all you've say you know."

Well, my Friend, since the Bible is God's full revelation to mankind and fully sufficient to bring man to salvation and to guide man in his daily Christian walk -- what else do we need?

You say the Bible is not God's full revelation to man? No? Then show us any other book which is inspired by God. We read that ALL of the Bible is the inspired Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17) -- yet, I see no where in the Bible that Roman Catholic traditions and rituals are inspired by anyone except the pope and bishops. So, who do we trust -- God or the pope? Personally, I will make my bed with God.

Finally, you ask me, "What concern is all this to you?"

Not really sure what you mean. Are you referring to this discussion I began titled "What Are 'Feel Good' Churches?" -- or are you speaking of Roman Catholicism?

Either way, my answer will be basically the same. The "Feel Good" churches mislead people into a false sense of security; always wanting to make them feel "comfortable" to keep them coming back to their megachurches.

And, the Roman Catholic papacy teaches its people that they cannot have a sense of eternal security -- since even the pope does not know if he is going to heaven or not.

Both mislead people. The Roman Catholics do it with false doctrines. The "Feel Good" churches do it with a "watered down" Gospel. Both are wrong -- and that is why it concerns me. I do not want new believers or new seekers to be misled by either false teaching.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Kraven,

You tell me, "Bill, You can't in any way know Catholicism the way Catholics have known it since 33 AD."

Roman Catholicism began in the early 300 AD period with Constantine. So, what is it that Roman Catholics have known since 33 AD?

Bill,

Constantine gave the christian's freedom of open religion only. He later joined
the church also.

Jesus found the Christian church before he died. St. Peter is the head of the
Christian church. Jesus made that clear with the keys to the church which
he gave to Peter. Pentecost was the first christian act of the christian
church.

You may not like the christian church, but that's your concern. You will say
it's not true, but you know it is true.


Finally, you ask me, "What concern is all this to you?"

Bill...I wasn't asking you "What concern is all this to you"? The other guy, OK


All the silly stuff below is not true. I know you want it to be, but it's
just not true. Your same answer is basically misleading people and you know it.
The only feel good church is in your head. You know, buy a ticket and you'll
feel good.

Your take on "sense of eternal security" is your opinion, not the Catholic
church. You mislead what the Pope said. The most false sense of security is
the untrue opinion's you spread. It's your evil slander and defamatory
remark's that let me know you just can't tell the truth.

It's your false doctrines that can't stand up to the truth.





Bill
Uno,

You seem to have struck a nerve.

Good point.


I reference to it, we do indeed cherry pick the verses from the Bible that coincide with modern morality, and reject many others that do not.

By what moral means do we do this? Biblical morality? No, much too circular.

By innate human morality. The morality that changes, usually for the better, with the advancing zeitgeist in which we find ourselves.

Because we have such innate morality, we do not need the bible at all. As a matter of fact, we're better off without it.
quote:
The "Feel Good" churches mislead people into a false sense of security;


It could also be said that the "once saved always saved" theory leads people to a false sense of security.
There has certainly been enough Scripture posted to claim such.
If you ask me, the most dangerous is to feel "secure" and that your actions/life is of no consequence.....
Come on with the 2 Peter.........

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