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This post is in response to the post titled “what do Atheists believe in”?
Now, perhaps it is not appropriate for me to respond to this because I am
not an atheist.  However, I know several atheists personally and certainly
come in contact with them at this forum, so I am going to wing it here
anyway:

It seems to me that atheists, the atheists I know at least, believe in much
of the same things that I do, that we all should.

The atheists I know believe in the triumph of the human condition.  They
believe in the progressive advance of science and the power and possibility
of this advance to improve the lives of every man woman and child on the
planet.  They believe in the power of self reliance, and of the ability of
each person to improve their lot on this world to the best it can be.  They
believe in fairness, in relative equality and in allowing each person, by
their inherent endowments to achieve that place in society equal to those
selfsame endowments, be they intellectual, spiritual or personable.  They
believe in truth, beauty and goodness.

In short they believe in all the things of this world that anyone and
everyone should.

The atheists I know do not hold against me the right to believe in a
creator personality.  They do not begrudge me the right to have faith in a
better life to come after this one.  Most of them, when pressed will admit
to a “wait and see” attitude towards these things, rather than, when not
pushed, an antagonistic and belligerent viewpoint towards the possibility
of an eternal existence.

I have noticed that most atheists will only respond in person with
criticism of these beliefs after they are threatened by statements such as
“you will burn in hell”, or something along that line.  Of course, here on
the internet, most of us, religionist or non-religionist, seem to find it
irresistible to lash out against those who do not share our beliefs, it
being oh, so easy to do so with complete anonymity and the concurrent
safety to our person.

Perhaps if we religionists would carry ourselves in a manner which
reflected our high and profound beliefs, we would present a far smaller
target for the anonymous spears and arrows so cheerfully thrown by our
atheistic friends.

Just saying…

Original Post

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Hi Al,

 

When you identify yourself as a "religionist" and not as a Christian -- for once, you are being truthful.  And, it does not matter whether one is an atheist, a secularist, in a world religion, in a cult religion, or, like you, in a New Age religion -- you all are truly in the same boat. 

 

And, when the end comes there will be two boats leaving this world's docks -- one going to heaven and one going to hell.  Christian believers, i.e., Christ Followers, will be in Boat A heading toward heaven -- and eternity in the presence of God. 

 

And, all others will be in Boat B heading toward an eternal destiny as shown in Revelation 20:11-15 -- void of the presence of God. 

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Originally Posted by alwilliams767:

Thanks Semi:

I've missed you.  Hope you are well.

What's new and exciting? 

I've been really busy at work, the boys are growing like weeds, and Mama is doing great.

 

Went to an incredible performance of Beauty and the Beast at the local High School tonight.  Boy there are some really talented kids in this town.

_______________________________

Thank you, I'm good. Trying to plan a trip to Gatlinburg, just can't decide which cabin to rent.

We saw an excellent show in Huntsville recently. It's amazing what these kids can do. 

Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
Originally Posted by b50m:

According to scriptures, boat A will be almost empty and B will be overloaded. And since God gives preference to the 12 tribes of Israel first, I'm thinking all the gentiles will be on boat B.

___________________________________

I'm curious why you think God gives preference to the 12 tribes of Israel?

 

 


 

  • Revelation 7:3-8 (ESV)
saying: "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the servants of God on their foreheads." And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

They accept reality. They don't "believe" in anything. Do you also ask people if they believe in gravity or electricity?


You believe in reincarnation. That is a belief. Others on other sites  said they believed in ghosts and the paranormal. That is a belief..

You don't believe in a God but you believe in a spiritual system. Gravity can be proven , reincarnation cannot. God cannot. Both are beliefs.

  
Originally Posted by semiannualchick:
I'm curious why you think God gives preference to the 12 tribes of Israel?

_________________________________

Originally Posted by b50m

  • Revelation 7:3-8 (ESV)
saying: "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the servants of God on their foreheads." And I heard the number of the sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

_____________________________________________

If you don't believe Revelation to be the inspired Word of God, why use it to back your belief concerning the 12 tribes of Israel?

Originally Posted by alwilliams767:


This post is in response to the post titled “what do Atheists believe in”?
Now, perhaps it is not appropriate for me to respond to this because I am
not an atheist.  However, I know several atheists personally and certainly
come in contact with them at this forum, so I am going to wing it here
anyway:

It seems to me that atheists, the atheists I know at least, believe in much
of the same things that I do, that we all should.

The atheists I know believe in the triumph of the human condition.  They
believe in the progressive advance of science and the power and possibility
of this advance to improve the lives of every man woman and child on the
planet.  They believe in the power of self reliance, and of the ability of
each person to improve their lot on this world to the best it can be.  They
believe in fairness, in relative equality and in allowing each person, by
their inherent endowments to achieve that place in society equal to those
selfsame endowments, be they intellectual, spiritual or personable.  They
believe in truth, beauty and goodness.

In short they believe in all the things of this world that anyone and
everyone should.

The atheists I know do not hold against me the right to believe in a
creator personality.  They do not begrudge me the right to have faith in a
better life to come after this one.  Most of them, when pressed will admit
to a “wait and see” attitude towards these things, rather than, when not
pushed, an antagonistic and belligerent viewpoint towards the possibility
of an eternal existence.

I have noticed that most atheists will only respond in person with
criticism of these beliefs after they are threatened by statements such as
“you will burn in hell”, or something along that line.  Of course, here on
the internet, most of us, religionist or non-religionist, seem to find it
irresistible to lash out against those who do not share our beliefs, it
being oh, so easy to do so with complete anonymity and the concurrent
safety to our person.

Perhaps if we religionists would carry ourselves in a manner which
reflected our high and profound beliefs, we would present a far smaller
target for the anonymous spears and arrows so cheerfully thrown by our
atheistic friends.

Just saying…

 

I would agree with you description of atheist. What I think many of the believers mistake as attacks on them are actually our view on religion. If we didn't disagree with the very basics and doctrines of religion then we would probably be religious ourselves. Especially in this society.

 

To say what we have is beliefs might not be exactly accurate though. I think of those things you mentioned, as a moral and civilized way to live. Not necessarily a belief more like a proven way of having a happy and successful society.

 

Also you are right. I don't know for a fact that there is no afterlife. However I don't question it either. Why would I? There is no evidence at all for me to believe such a thing so why speculate? I guess you could call that a wait and see attitude, but in reality I don't feel that I am going to be surprised with some kind of pearly gate experience after I die.

 

Over all not to bad alwilliams.

Thank you dark angel !

 

Finally someone who answered the post !

 

I stand by me writing that the things I called beliefs are beliefs.  After all, do not all of us exist within the confines of our minds?   I mean, are we not All trapped within our own particular mental version of what is reality?  We all learn how to make it in this world to be best of our innate abilities, and we all see the world from our own unique perspective.  Our individual personality is what makes us unique persons, unlike any other in the world, or even in the universe, if you prefer.  

So, does it not make sense that what we learn is also, at least to some extent, what we believe?  

 

And yes, I believe in electricity, and in gravity.  It is not a silly question to ask.  To me electricity and gravity are as real as is goodness and love.

 

How do you feel about that?

 

 

I still can't, or never could understand how there could be so much talk

about what god an atheist believes.

 

The only things an atheist believes is what

they can smell, and/or touch and see.

 

If it were possible to ask a donkey if it believed in God  the answer

would be no. It's only a physical world in which they can believe.

 

The belief in the God within our Holy Trinity comes only with fifty percent

experience and one hundred percent faith.

Outside of that is a short answer, no belief in god, not very complicated.

 

The only reason atheists talk about any god is to

 

If it were possible to ask a donkey if it believed in God the answer

would be no.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now who qualified you to speak for donkeys?  And invictus, you have no idea what atheists believe. There are atheists that believe in all sorts of things. Do you believe the same things bill believes? Why do you come here to talk about god? Can't we say, short answer, you believe in a god, not very complicated? Why do you post the so called "miracles" and "NDE" things over and over? We get it, you believe in those things, so isn't it "nuff said" after your first posts about them?  Using your and a few others logic there's no reason for the forum to exist after everyone has made their post saying either they believe or they don't believe.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

If it were possible to ask a donkey if it believed in God the answer

would be no.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now who qualified you to speak for donkeys?  And invictus, you have no idea what atheists believe. There are atheists that believe in all sorts of things. Do you believe the same things bill believes? Why do you come here to talk about god? Can't we say, short answer, you believe in a god, not very complicated? Why do you post the so called "miracles" and "NDE" things over and over? We get it, you believe in those things, so isn't it "nuff said" after your first posts about them?  Using your and a few others logic there's no reason for the forum to exist after everyone has made their post saying either they believe or they don't believe.

----------------------

Best, the NDE's are all different, there's a million stories in the asphalt city

and most are miracles. I'm saying atheists should expand their subject

points. alwilliams and bill gray are still inventing their own religions and

donkeys only talk to jammaboy because that's what his friends are coming

back as, and some other things I'm not allowed to say.

 

Maybe exercise would help, people should cut their grass.

 

The ndes are only different because people are different and their imaginations work differently depending on their religion. Hindu's nde are nothing like a muslims, a catholics, a baptists, etc. but they are like other hindus. NDE-they see THEIR god and/or dead loved ones, they see their idea of heaven or hell, they may or may not get "warnings" or "predictions". People can make all sorts of predictions that end up coming true. They're based on being aware of things going on around them and in the world and using common sense to see or understand how things will "play out".  The brain is an amazing thing and anyone that dreams can understand how someone would think they've had a nde, but on the other hand can/should understand it was only the brain at work.

As far as miracles, things happen all the time to people that could be considered a miracle and it's hard to see how it could be "divine intervention" when that "miracle" leads to that bad person getting away with something evil. 

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Originally Posted by b50m:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Reincarnation has been proven to be true beyond any reasonable doubt. It is not a belief.
 
Please give a link to proof.

It is much too complicated for your feeble mind to grasp.

Right. If you are basing it on the works of Dr. Ian Stevenson, he uses anecdotal evidence, stories told under hypnosis and the method of "find the facts to fit the story". Much like the sessions of counselors who convince their patient they were raped as a child when no such thing occurred.

 

If you want to believe in it, great. But to claim atheism --the only facts, only science, only reason, philosophy-- at the same time is a little weird.

Originally Posted by b50m:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Originally Posted by b50m:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:
Reincarnation has been proven to be true beyond any reasonable doubt. It is not a belief.
 
Please give a link to proof.

It is much too complicated for your feeble mind to grasp.

Right. If you are basing it on the works of Dr. Ian Stevenson, he uses anecdotal evidence, stories told under hypnosis and the method of "find the facts to fit the story". Much like the sessions of counselors who convince their patient they were raped as a child when no such thing occurred.

 

If you want to believe in it, great. But to claim atheism --the only facts, only science, only reason, philosophy-- at the same time is a little weird.

_______________________________________

 

I had never heard of the guy so I ran a search and this is the first thing that came up....

 

"Probably the best known, if not most respected, collection of scientific data that appears to provide scientific proof that reincarnation is real, is the life's work of Dr. Ian Stevenson. Instead of relying on hypnosis to verify that an individual has had a previous life, he instead chose to collect thousands of cases of children who spontaneously (without hypnosis) remember a past life. Dr. Ian Stevenson uses this approach because spontaneous past life memories in a child can be investigated using strict scientific protocols."

 

http://reluctant-messenger.com...ncarnation-proof.htm

 

I believe you are wrong on this account b50m.

 

I saw books listed where he collaborated with other doctors who did use hypnosis. But i will concede I am wrong.

 

As for the man himself:

Philosophically, Stevenson was a naive dualist. He believed that bodies and souls have separate evolutions and existences, and he seemed not to be concerned or aware of the philosophical problems that ensue from such claims about mind and body.

 

 

His dualism became stronger after he experimented with mescaline and LSD.

This may seem paradoxical, because if a small amount of a drug acting on the brain can markedly alter our mental experiences does this not prove that our thoughts are only our subjective awareness of our brain's activity? For me it does not. I admit certainly that the chemical changes in my brain that the drugs induced released the extraordinary images and feelings that entered my consciousness. However, this does not account for the images themselves, which (apart from those that I could identify as memories) had no correspondence to anything that I had earlier experienced. Here I need to add that my experiences included nothing that I could prove to have originated outside my mind and, if you like, my brain. I had no verifiable extrasensory experience when under the influence of drugs. My interest in extrasensory perception did not derive from my experiences with drugs, although they enhanced it.(Stevenson 1989).

 

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:

If you want to learn about reincarnation, you might begin at the Florence library. Check out the Buddhism section and the Dalai Lama, who the 35th in that position. He is the 35th Dalai Lama and his qualifications are well documented.

====================================

If you believe that Dalai Lama crap, you aren't and can't be educated.

Just one person here was reincarnated, the tadpole

came back as a frog.

 

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:

If you want to learn about reincarnation, you might begin at the Florence library. Check out the Buddhism section and the Dalai Lama, who the 35th in that position. He is the 35th Dalai Lama and his qualifications are well documented.

====================================

If you believe that Dalai Lama crap, you aren't and can't be educated.

Just one person here was reincarnated, the tadpole

came back as a frog.

 

You have now proven definitely that you are full of "crap". And, you are ignorant beyond all help.

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