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Blue:
It is a noble effort. It really is.
But being new here I will let you know that we have a phenomenon unmatched here at the TD RETHUGLITEACON CIRCUS!
Evidently, all the radical right wing who post on here are millionaires and even a few billionaires.
At least it appears that way by the way they defend the tax breaks for the rich!
It is a noble effort. It really is.
But being new here I will let you know that we have a phenomenon unmatched here at the TD RETHUGLITEACON CIRCUS!
Evidently, all the radical right wing who post on here are millionaires and even a few billionaires.
At least it appears that way by the way they defend the tax breaks for the rich!
Oh...I have had extensive experience with this forum. It will drive you crazy. I get to a point where I cannot deal with it and bail for a while. But not everyone in this town has blinders on. I've noticed that the majority of people here have really had it.
The only folks practicing class warfare are the rich, greedy ones.
quote:Originally posted by TrueBlue:
Oh...I have had extensive experience with this forum. It will drive you crazy. I get to a point where I cannot deal with it and bail for a while. But not everyone in this town has blinders on. I've noticed that the majority of people here have really had it.
Don't let it drive you crazy. Just consider the source. Look on it as entertainment. People who defend policies that hurt THEM are just loony and there is nothing that we can do about it.
I'll try. But I just don't know how they are selling them this stuff? Really...its kind of frightening.
Hang in there guys. There for awhile I was beginning to think I was the only one in North Alabama who would stand up to "thugs" other than good ol Mr. Better (there was one, but she was a "likable" liberal, so that speaks volumes)!
Have a little fun with it. Do like I do and try to drive them crazy, especially when you attack their "fuhrers" like Glenn Beck and the crowd at Faux News (their main source of propoganda)
Get really creative and stump a few of the most blatant ones (some are really easy to get, you will find one who likes wine and chocolates that it is a riot to make her squirm)
All in all, it gets frustrating at times but I try to remember that they are indoctrinated and if those of us who still are capable of independent thinking don't ruffle their feathers, they will continue to fester in their ignorance (well they do anyway, but it is my patriotic duty to TRY to embarrass them!
)
Have a little fun with it. Do like I do and try to drive them crazy, especially when you attack their "fuhrers" like Glenn Beck and the crowd at Faux News (their main source of propoganda)
Get really creative and stump a few of the most blatant ones (some are really easy to get, you will find one who likes wine and chocolates that it is a riot to make her squirm)
All in all, it gets frustrating at times but I try to remember that they are indoctrinated and if those of us who still are capable of independent thinking don't ruffle their feathers, they will continue to fester in their ignorance (well they do anyway, but it is my patriotic duty to TRY to embarrass them!
)quote:Originally posted by rocky:
Hang in there guys. There for awhile I was beginning to think I was the only one in North Alabama who would stand up to "thugs" other than good ol Mr. Better (there was one, but she was a "likable" liberal, so that speaks volumes)!
Have a little fun with it. Do like I do and try to drive them crazy, especially when you attack their "fuhrers" like Glenn Beck and the crowd at Faux News (their main source of propoganda)
Get really creative and stump a few of the most blatant ones (some are really easy to get, you will find one who likes wine and chocolates that it is a riot to make her squirm)
All in all, it gets frustrating at times but I try to remember that they are indoctrinated and if those of us who still are capable of independent thinking don't ruffle their feathers, they will continue to fester in their ignorance (well they do anyway, but it is my patriotic duty to TRY to embarrass them!
Since you can't change the minds of the mindless, I just ignore them. The only way I see anything that they have written is if one of you quotes them in your post of if their post is the first one in a topic. Ignoring Bill cuts my reading time in half.
quote:Originally posted by rocky:
Hang in there guys. There for awhile I was beginning to think I was the only one in North Alabama who would stand up to "thugs" other than good ol Mr. Better (there was one, but she was a "likable" liberal, so that speaks volumes)!
Have a little fun with it. Do like I do and try to drive them crazy, especially when you attack their "fuhrers" like Glenn Beck and the crowd at Faux News (their main source of propoganda)
Get really creative and stump a few of the most blatant ones (some are really easy to get, you will find one who likes wine and chocolates that it is a riot to make her squirm)
All in all, it gets frustrating at times but I try to remember that they are indoctrinated and if those of us who still are capable of independent thinking don't ruffle their feathers, they will continue to fester in their ignorance (well they do anyway, but it is my patriotic duty to TRY to embarrass them!
You cannot embarrass the brainless.
quote:Evidently, all the radical right wing who post on here are millionaires and even a few billionaires.
At least it appears that way by the way they defend the tax breaks for the rich!
No rich Democrats? I didn't know that. I guess those rich thuglicans ARE the problem after all....
quote:Originally posted by rocky:
Hang in there guys. There for awhile I was beginning to think I was the only one in North Alabama who would stand up to "thugs" other than good ol Mr. Better (there was one, but she was a "likable" liberal, so that speaks volumes)!
Have a little fun with it. Do like I do and try to drive them crazy, especially when you attack their "fuhrers" like Glenn Beck and the crowd at Faux News (their main source of propoganda)
Get really creative and stump a few of the most blatant ones (some are really easy to get, you will find one who likes wine and chocolates that it is a riot to make her squirm)
All in all, it gets frustrating at times but I try to remember that they are indoctrinated and if those of us who still are capable of independent thinking don't ruffle their feathers, they will continue to fester in their ignorance (well they do anyway, but it is my patriotic duty to TRY to embarrass them!
Yes, Rocky, it DOES speak volumes. It means that I am adult enough to discuss things without resorting to insults - therefore they respect me enough to LISTEN to what I have to say. The only way to get them to see the light is to have them listen to the truth. And I still TELL the truth, but I do it in a non-confrontational, adult manner.
quote:Originally posted by CageTheElephant:quote:Evidently, all the radical right wing who post on here are millionaires and even a few billionaires.
At least it appears that way by the way they defend the tax breaks for the rich!
No rich Democrats? I didn't know that. I guess those rich thuglicans ARE the problem after all....
Well...sure there are. The difference is that they have morals and don't mind paying their fair share. They aren't fighting it, they know its for the good of the country and its fair.
The question is, ARE YOU A MILLIONAIR? If not, why are you fighting agaist it for them. Have they employed you to fight for them? Why have you made this your battle?
They use a lot of different methods to reduce their tax bases.
1> incorporate their families
2> transfer money to children (gift it)
3> buy a peice of art for 5,000 have it appraised to 30,000, donate it to a nuseum and take the right off for the appraised value.
4> take off the interest from vacation homes
5> send money out of the country
6> take large capital gain deductions
7> take business writeoffs for homes, boats, planes and cars.
8> take huge business/entertainment deductions.
9> invest in failing businesses to write off start up costs.
10> they take pay in the form of stock and bonds.
11> Muni bonds are tax free
12> Stocks and bonds are only taxed at 15%.
Keep this in mind. If you invest 100.00 and make a 100% return and reinvest that and make money on it. You are only paying 15% on money that you are currently making more money on. As long as your investment pays off more than 15% your sitting pretty. They tailor their investments to fit a 14-15% tax base. At the beginning of every year (before they make any money) their accountants will give them 4 quarterly predetermined tax payment coupons. These coupons are a 14-15% tax base estimate and they will tailor any earnings to fit that projection at the end of the year.
I could go on and on. They take deductions we would never qualify to take which lowers their actual tax rates down to 14% or less. Thats roughly 6% less than either you or I could ever get away with paying. Why aren't they standing up and saying you are paying too much and getting too little back? Their laughing at you, kissing their behinds. For what? Business is business. It all comes down to money and who can make the most. That don't give a rats behind about you. You insignificant problems NEVER cross their minds.
Nothing in your list is exclusive. Anyone can qualify for these deductions if applicable. Makes me want to get off my rear end, work to earn affordability into this clan. Does it make you want to sit on your rear end and wait for your next government check?
quote:Originally posted by TrueBlue:quote:Originally posted by CageTheElephant:quote:Evidently, all the radical right wing who post on here are millionaires and even a few billionaires.
At least it appears that way by the way they defend the tax breaks for the rich!
No rich Democrats? I didn't know that. I guess those rich thuglicans ARE the problem after all....
Well...sure there are. The difference is that they have morals and don't mind paying their fair share. They aren't fighting it, they know its for the good of the country and its fair.
The question is, ARE YOU A MILLIONAIR? If not, why are you fighting agaist it for them. Have they employed you to fight for them? Why have you made this your battle?
They use a lot of different methods to reduce their tax bases.
1> incorporate their families
2> transfer money to children (gift it)
3> buy a peice of art for 5,000 have it appraised to 30,000, donate it to a nuseum and take the right off for the appraised value.
4> take off the interest from vacation homes
5> send money out of the country
6> take large capital gain deductions
7> take business writeoffs for homes, boats, planes and cars.
8> take huge business/entertainment deductions.
9> invest in failing businesses to write off start up costs.
10> they take pay in the form of stock and bonds.
11> Muni bonds are tax free
12> Stocks and bonds are only taxed at 15%.
Keep this in mind. If you invest 100.00 and make a 100% return and reinvest that and make money on it. You are only paying 15% on money that you are currently making more money on. As long as your investment pays off more than 15% your sitting pretty. They tailor their investments to fit a 14-15% tax base. At the beginning of every year (before they make any money) their accountants will give them 4 quarterly predetermined tax payment coupons. These coupons are a 14-15% tax base estimate and they will tailor any earnings to fit that projection at the end of the year.
I could go on and on. They take deductions we would never qualify to take which lowers their actual tax rates down to 14% or less. Thats roughly 6% less than either you or I could ever get away with paying. Why aren't they standing up and saying you are paying too much and getting too little back? Their laughing at you, kissing their behinds. For what? Business is business. It all comes down to money and who can make the most. That don't give a rats behind about you. You insignificant problems NEVER cross their minds.
So you are saying that rich democrats don't do any of those things? Also, since when is investing in muni bonds a bad thing??
The one that interests me is the vacation club scam that portends to be a charity. Essentially, you buy a time share in someplace like St. Croix or the DR, so that 3-4 times a year you can go there for a few weeks and help the homeless island peoples by buying drinks with umbrellas and laying on the beach.
quote:Originally posted by JimiHendrix:
The only folks practicing class warfare are the rich, greedy ones.
Only a imbecile would make a class warfare statement to paint the other side as practitioners.
About six of the tax breaks to the rich are due to end under the Ryan plan. Obama planned to end the heat assistance program, which his administration started. At least, get the basics right.
quote:Originally posted by JimiHendrix:quote:Originally posted by rocky:
Hang in there guys. There for awhile I was beginning to think I was the only one in North Alabama who would stand up to "thugs" other than good ol Mr. Better (there was one, but she was a "likable" liberal, so that speaks volumes)!
Have a little fun with it. Do like I do and try to drive them crazy, especially when you attack their "fuhrers" like Glenn Beck and the crowd at Faux News (their main source of propoganda)
Get really creative and stump a few of the most blatant ones (some are really easy to get, you will find one who likes wine and chocolates that it is a riot to make her squirm)
All in all, it gets frustrating at times but I try to remember that they are indoctrinated and if those of us who still are capable of independent thinking don't ruffle their feathers, they will continue to fester in their ignorance (well they do anyway, but it is my patriotic duty to TRY to embarrass them!
You cannot embarrass the brainless.
If all else fails resort to lies like jimi does.
quote:Originally posted by longawaiting:
Nothing in your list is exclusive. Anyone can qualify for these deductions if applicable. Makes me want to get off my rear end, work to earn affordability into this clan. Does it make you want to sit on your rear end and wait for your next government check?
I DO NOT COLLECT GOVERNMENT CHECKS! I own my own business and probably employ someone you know.
quote:Originally posted by longawaiting:
Nothing in your list is exclusive. Anyone can qualify for these deductions if applicable. Makes me want to get off my rear end, work to earn affordability into this clan. Does it make you want to sit on your rear end and wait for your next government check?
Almost everything on this list is exclusive to the RICH. If you don't have the money than none of it is worth doing. And 14% IS EXCLUSIVE to the Weathy. You and I couldn't get close to that rate. We don't make enough money too.
How many times have you bought a piece of art for $10,000.00 took it to an appraiser and had it valued at $50,000.00. Donated it to a museum and took a $50,000.00 write off on your taxes for a $10,000.00 investment?
I for one have only taken advanatge of one of those, and that was not having to pay capital gains on a home I sold a few years ago.
The problem is that you are not discussing class warfare, what you are describing is envy and covetness of your neighbor. All of those deductions are availble to anyone who qualifies, but there are many mnay more of which you may qualify that others do not. For instance interests on school loans is phased out if you make over about $100K per year, no matter how much was withheld. Self employed people pay Medicare and SS, and most of us also get tagged with AMT as well. The only class warfare is bing conducted by the the people who are envious and coveting of other people's earnings and belongings. I don't care how many people you employ, if you don't think you are not paying your fair share of taxes, someone needs to audit your return, or better yet just make out a check to the government and send it in, they will be happy to take it from you.
The problem is that you are not discussing class warfare, what you are describing is envy and covetness of your neighbor. All of those deductions are availble to anyone who qualifies, but there are many mnay more of which you may qualify that others do not. For instance interests on school loans is phased out if you make over about $100K per year, no matter how much was withheld. Self employed people pay Medicare and SS, and most of us also get tagged with AMT as well. The only class warfare is bing conducted by the the people who are envious and coveting of other people's earnings and belongings. I don't care how many people you employ, if you don't think you are not paying your fair share of taxes, someone needs to audit your return, or better yet just make out a check to the government and send it in, they will be happy to take it from you.
quote:Originally posted by TrueBlue:quote:Originally posted by longawaiting:
Nothing in your list is exclusive. Anyone can qualify for these deductions if applicable. Makes me want to get off my rear end, work to earn affordability into this clan. Does it make you want to sit on your rear end and wait for your next government check?
Almost everything on this list is exclusive to the RICH. If you don't have the money than none of it is worth doing. And 14% IS EXCLUSIVE to the Weathy. You and I couldn't get close to that rate. We don't make enough money too.
How many times have you bought a piece of art for $10,000.00 took it to an appraiser and had it valued at $50,000.00. Donated it to a museum and took a $50,000.00 write off on your taxes for a $10,000.00 investment?
How many times have you actually seen that done? I don't know of any art studio around that will sell a piece of art appraising for $50K for $10, unless there is absolutely no market for it.
I don't know all there is to know but I like the FAIR tax. Do away with the IRS, all the loopholes, and everyone pays the same % of taxes.
[/QUOTE]So you are saying that rich democrats don't do any of those things? Also, since when is investing in muni bonds a bad thing??[/QUOTE]
They all do it Democrats and Republicans. The only difference is that MOST wealthy Democrats aren't complaining about losing the tax breaks Bush handed to them and paying their fair share.
As for your argument that tax breaks for the wealthy create jobs is bull crap. Tax breaks make it easy for wealthy people to reduce their tax burden. Without the tax breaks they are forced to work to reduce it. Primarily by opening more businesses and employing more people, since start up costs are a write off. Thats why they HAD the old saying that you can never stop building your wealth. You have to keep going higher. You have to make money on the investments your going to be taxed on. Thats how the middle class grows. The more people who can achieve middle class, the more taxes are collected and the purchasing power there is. The more purchasing power there is, the more need there is to expand.
When is the last time you paid off all your debt by cutting back? You don't. Now one does. You pay off a debt by increasing your revenue and not aquiring additional debt.
Our tax system is progressive for this reason. There are more people who are middle class. As more opportunities are created that number grows. As that number grows more taxes are collected. That being said, I do agree with Republicans that it is unfair to give someone who didn't make enough money to have to pay any taxes to give them a refund (ie: Earned Income). But my understanding is that Earned Income is ending. However, you cannot expect someone who makes barley enough to survive to pay the same rate as someone making $250,000 a year.
I don't beleive in ending welfare but I do beleive in limiting it and making those payments become an investment instead of a hand out. It needs to be more carefully controlled, monitored and should come with requirements that the receipient receives training and/or works.
They all do it Democrats and Republicans. The only difference is that MOST wealthy Democrats aren't complaining about losing the tax breaks Bush handed to them and paying their fair share.
As for your argument that tax breaks for the wealthy create jobs is bull crap. Tax breaks make it easy for wealthy people to reduce their tax burden. Without the tax breaks they are forced to work to reduce it. Primarily by opening more businesses and employing more people, since start up costs are a write off. Thats why they HAD the old saying that you can never stop building your wealth. You have to keep going higher. You have to make money on the investments your going to be taxed on. Thats how the middle class grows. The more people who can achieve middle class, the more taxes are collected and the purchasing power there is. The more purchasing power there is, the more need there is to expand.
When is the last time you paid off all your debt by cutting back? You don't. Now one does. You pay off a debt by increasing your revenue and not aquiring additional debt.
Our tax system is progressive for this reason. There are more people who are middle class. As more opportunities are created that number grows. As that number grows more taxes are collected. That being said, I do agree with Republicans that it is unfair to give someone who didn't make enough money to have to pay any taxes to give them a refund (ie: Earned Income). But my understanding is that Earned Income is ending. However, you cannot expect someone who makes barley enough to survive to pay the same rate as someone making $250,000 a year.
I don't beleive in ending welfare but I do beleive in limiting it and making those payments become an investment instead of a hand out. It needs to be more carefully controlled, monitored and should come with requirements that the receipient receives training and/or works.
The Ryan plan, like Obama's debt commission ends the tax breaks for the rich.